Jessa, Ben, and Spurgeon part 4

[ksgranola1]

I told my daughters to avoid bringing Baby#2 on the scene while #1 was at/around the terrible twos. B/c it would be hell for them. The tantrums. The refusal to do anything w/o screaming. The toilet training. The jealousy. The trying to go buy a loaf of bread w/the 2 of them. Baby#1 braining #2 w/a heavy object when you're cooking/going to the bathroom/sneaking in a shower.

Did they listen? #2 was an "accident."

[quiverofdoubt]

9 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

I told my daughters to avoid bringing Baby#2 on the scene while #1 was at/around the terrible twos. B/c it would be hell for them. The tantrums. The refusal to do anything w/o screaming. The toilet training. The jealousy. The trying to go buy a loaf of bread w/the 2 of them. Baby#1 braining #2 w/a heavy object when you're cooking/going to the bathroom/sneaking in a shower.

Did they listen? #2 was an "accident."

I'm finding the threenager phase to be a lot harder than terrible twos actually. Every kid is different, and different spacing works for different families.  And jealousy is normal for most kids getting a new sibling.  So is some regression.  And we can't always perfectly plan how things will go. We don't have 100% control over nature.

[Denim Jumper]

OMG, three years old was definitely so much harder than two. For one thing, they don't nap, so you have to put up with the bitching for a good 12 hours/day nonstop. I remember with my first, we sailed right through age 2 with nary a tantrum; I of course chalked it up to being the Best Parent Evah. And then he turned 3, and it basically a massive 365 day long tantrum. Second kid came along, and I treasured those first years, knowing what was right around the corner. Sure, age 3 was a rocky one... and also coincided with birthing kid #3, who took a different route by being an incredibly difficult, colicky baby. Yeah, it was a rough year. A tall glass of wine each night, just to dull my nerves enough to where I could relax and get some sleep. BUT, kid #3 ended up being a really mellow kid once he got past the 12 month mark, bypassed the crap that comes with ages 2-4 and now at age 5, still thinks I can do no wrong.

[EmmieJ]

My son at age 3 had more meltdowns than when he was two.  It was a really rocky period there for awhile.  He'd be a lovely child, then his behavior would change until it racheted up to level 11!!enty!!! and I thought either I had a possessed child and/or I was the worst mother in the world.  Then a major blow out, and calm restored (for a time).  Rough age for both parents and child.  By contrast, the majority of his teenage years have been a breeze.

[doggie]

4 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

My son at age 3 had more meltdowns than when he was two.  It was a really rocky period there for awhile.  He'd be a lovely child, then his behavior would change until it racheted up to level 11!!enty!!! and I thought either I had a possessed child and/or I was the worst mother in the world.  Then a major blow out, and calm restored (for a time).  Rough age for both parents and child.  By contrast, the majority of his teenage years have been a breeze.

it must be the vaccines

kids they will drive you nuts even when adults.

[ClaraOswin]

Oh God...if 3 is worse than 2, I am going to die. My kid screams bloody murder constantly. Multiple tantrums a day. Doesn't listen well. Of course, he has other issues so that probably contributes. But still...I am barely hanging on some days. If three is worse, not sure what I'm going to do. Probably a good thing he will end up being an only child, I guess.

[Ungodly Grandma]

44 minutes ago, ClaraOswin said:

Oh God...if 3 is worse than 2, I am going to die. My kid screams bloody murder constantly. Multiple tantrums a day. Doesn't listen well. Of course, he has other issues so that probably contributes. But still...I am barely hanging on some days. If three is worse, not sure what I'm going to do. Probably a good thing he will end up being an only child, I guess.

I didn't find three to be worse than two, if only because their language skills are greater, so there is less frustration. Hope you find it the same.

[ClaraOswin]

33 minutes ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

I didn't find three to be worse than two, if only because their language skills are greater, so there is less frustration. Hope you find it the same.

Me too. At this point, I'd settle for ANY language at all.

[SassyPants]

My GD is going to be 2 in 2 weeks. I just got home from babysitting while her parents where away for a week with their students, at Science Camp. I will say that she was at her worst about 3 mos ago. She is rather precocious (very independent, dresses herself, including shoes and socks, toilets alone, goes up and down stairs carrying stuff, pours liquids from container to container without spilling) and was having a hard time, probably d/t language issues. Now, she's much better. Her language has exploded and she is far less frustrated, tantrums are just about gone, and is far more independent. 

I guess you never know when "it" will hit.

[ClaraOswin]

At this point, it's pretty clear "it" won't be hitting on it's own, unfortunately. He is getting therapy a lot and we will likely have to go much more often if he is diagnosed with apraxia of speech. Fun fun!

[Carol]

6 minutes ago, ClaraOswin said:

At this point, it's pretty clear "it" won't be hitting on it's own, unfortunately. He is getting therapy a lot and we will likely have to go much more often if he is diagnosed with apraxia of speech. Fun fun!

I think everyone on this board has enormous respect for you.  I know I do.  When you're down let us know, maybe we can make you laugh.  There are a lot of funny people here...and IMO laughter is the best medicine.

[ksgranola1]

My second grandson didn't utter a word until he was 4. My daughter bent over backwards getting him evaluated & getting him therapy. Now he's 9 & never shuts up.

[Shadoewolf]

My youngest is 7 and while he talks normally most of the time,  its a HUGE meltdown if he's angry or sad. 0-1000 in 2 seconds flat and we can't approach him to find out what's wrong until he's ready (sometimes an hour or more). Then its getting him to actually verbalize what's wrong. Years and years of telling him that we can't understand him if he's crying (hysterically) and he needs to use his words.  Getting there but we've been at it since he was 18 months old.   (HUGS) Clara, know it can be rough!

[guitar_villain]

3 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Me too. At this point, I'd settle for ANY language at all.

Good luck with the speech therapy

#2 son was highly nonverbal- his vocabulary at 18 months was "b".  We spoke with our doctor and got state social services involved. They had a therapist come out and work with him for a year or two before we got the school district involved.  He "graduated" around third grade and now has no speech issues at all.  Reading was a total pain as well, but I will be forever grateful to the Diary of a Wimpy Kid series since he went from fighting over reading Dick and Jane level books to reading on his own with those.

Now of course we're dealing with all the other crap at school, like having him explain boners loudly in class.  Eleven year old boys are farking morons.

[withaj]

9 minutes ago, guitar_villain said:

Now of course we're dealing with all the other crap at school, like having him explain boners loudly in class.  Eleven year old boys are farking morons.

I am looking forward to having children someday, but OMG, remembering middle school, I'm not sure I can parent an 11-year-old boy without losing my sanity.

[Denim Jumper]

2 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

At this point, it's pretty clear "it" won't be hitting on it's own, unfortunately. He is getting therapy a lot and we will likely have to go much more often if he is diagnosed with apraxia of speech. Fun fun!

Hey, if nothing, he is fortunate to be born in a day and age where there is early intervention, rather than just being labeled a "late bloomer", like in generations past.

58 minutes ago, guitar_villain said:

Good luck with the speech therapy

#2 son was highly nonverbal- his vocabulary at 18 months was "b".  We spoke with our doctor and got state social services involved. They had a therapist come out and work with him for a year or two before we got the school district involved.  He "graduated" around third grade and now has no speech issues at all.  Reading was a total pain as well, but I will be forever grateful to the Diary of a Wimpy Kid series since he went from fighting over reading Dick and Jane level books to reading on his own with those.

Now of course we're dealing with all the other crap at school, like having him explain boners loudly in class.  Eleven year old boys are farking morons.

Sounds like my oldest (also 11). He was diagnosed with autism at 3, and was nonverbal. Had hours upon hours of therapy since then, and as of this year he no longer needs speech therapy and has graduated from a self-contained class to a small inclusion class. He's still has some developmental delays and "quirks", but for the most part he's become your typical pervy preteen boy. 

[ClaraOswin]

Thanks all! You guys really do make me feel so much better and I appreciate it more than I can even explain. I don't really have much support in the "real world"...just my husband and parents. So you are all fantastic!

And the boner comment made me laugh out loud.  

[EmCatlyn]

6 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Me too. At this point, I'd settle for ANY language at all.

My first child was an early speaker and no terrible twos.  Sure she was stubborn at times, but pretty manageable.  My second child was a late speaker and his tantrums were epic.  He is 26 and I have friends that compare all other tantrums to those of his terrible twos. (As in, "You think your kid has tantrums?  Honey you should have heard the Catlyn boy when he was that age!")

My son became much more content with the world when he could speak and make himself understood.  He always had behavior problems (he is ADD) but the rages stopped as he was able to explain what he wanted.

Hang in there.  The threes are sometimes better than the twos.

[foreign fundie]

There were a couple of years (4-9 years old) when my eldest was at times so hard to handle that I had nightmares about having to put her in some sort of correctional institute and thought she might end up addicted, pregnant and behind bars before she turned 11. Some days were one long exhausting fight and we had to physically restrain her from running away. We had no professional help, it wasn't available, somehow just hung in there. She is a lovely, mature and very responsible teenager now. At one point, she was just done fighting. We didn't do anything differently. She was just over whatever it was.

[MarblesMom]

7 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Me too. At this point, I'd settle for ANY language at all.

Hi @ClaraOswin,

My youngest had his own language til about 6.  He was in speech therapy til 7th grade.  There are still times, even now that he is 27, that make me re-listen to what he is trying to say (and he has a MS in Astrophysics).  I don't think he said "Mama" til 3 or 4.  Heartbreaking and frustrating.

The younger years were frustrating for anyone (teachers, neighbors) who didn't understand his lingo.  Thankfully, I was able to translate for others.

I also have a GS who has TSC (and this is a snowflake type issue) and chances are, he will be non-verbal.  I hope my previous experience with limited verbal skills will help him.

Anyway, you have my support and encouragement on this journey - hoping for a good outcome.  Every single person/situation is different!  (Thank goodness!) 

I am here to cheer you and your little along 

 

[ClaraOswin]

Not being called "mom" or "mama" is quite hard. I get down about that a lot. I hope he'll get there someday.

Sorry that I totally hijacked the thread.

[MarblesMom]

I get you

Perhaps we need to start a thread in another spot for these sort of things.  We are not alone!

[nastyhobbitses]

8 hours ago, withaj said:

I am looking forward to having children someday, but OMG, remembering middle school, I'm not sure I can parent an 11-year-old boy without losing my sanity.

When I was teaching middle school, I had OK Days, Bad Days, and TIE MY TUBES NOW SO I NEVER UNLEASH CHILDREN LIKE THIS UPON THE WORLD Days. I loved those kids, but they drove me bonkers.

Also, FJers, as a non-parent I want to ask: how do you deal with kids who throw tantrums? I'm asking because on my flight back from my vacation yesterday, there was a kid screaming bloody murder for about half the flight, another kid crying because she was bored (oh, you're bored on a nice comfy airplane to London? I'm sure all those Syrian and Afghan kids drowning in the Mediterranean on inflatable dinghies sure feel sorry for your plight), and another crying because going on two trains (transferring, I guess) was somehow disagreeable. Screamer I could understand (pressure changes hurt), but the other two -- how do you reason with them and teach them that those are not good reasons to cry? Bored Kid started chanting "I'm a big girl" in between wails of "I'M BOOOOOOOOORED" and I was so tempted to say "if you whine about being bored, you're not a big girl", but I figured I'd let her parents handle her and stay out of it.

[Denim Jumper]

8 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Thanks all! You guys really do make me feel so much better and I appreciate it more than I can even explain. I don't really have much support in the "real world"...just my husband and parents. So you are all fantastic!

And the boner comment made me laugh out loud.  

Having your family either be in denial or just not all that supportive makes it tougher on you; you need that safe place to talk about your fears and hopes for your son. It's definitely a tough road, with plenty of discouragement along the way and always worrying about the long-term prognosis. I always kept two things in mind when I found myself getting down:

1. This is not the worst thing that can happen to a child. I'm not going to minimize it, but it's not a terminal disease, or cancer, or anyone of the many tragic things that can happen to a child.

2. This is happening to him, not just me. He needs me to be positive, to love him as he is, advocate for him, but also to set the bar high, and know that he will make progress.

[quiverofdoubt]

4 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

When I was teaching middle school, I had OK Days, Bad Days, and TIE MY TUBES NOW SO I NEVER UNLEASH CHILDREN LIKE THIS UPON THE WORLD Days. I loved those kids, but they drove me bonkers.

Also, FJers, as a non-parent I want to ask: how do you deal with kids who throw tantrums? I'm asking because on my flight back from my vacation yesterday, there was a kid screaming bloody murder for about half the flight, another kid crying because she was bored (oh, you're bored on a nice comfy airplane to London? I'm sure all those Syrian and Afghan kids drowning in the Mediterranean on inflatable dinghies sure feel sorry for your plight), and another crying because going on two trains (transferring, I guess) was somehow disagreeable. Screamer I could understand (pressure changes hurt), but the other two -- how do you reason with them and teach them that those are not good reasons to cry? Bored Kid started chanting "I'm a big girl" in between wails of "I'M BOOOOOOOOORED" and I was so tempted to say "if you whine about being bored, you're not a big girl", but I figured I'd let her parents handle her and stay out of it.

The number one thing is to remember that the tantrum is rarely about what they are crying over. The tantrum is a way to express a lot of pent up emotions, fears, exhaustion, hunger etc.  In this specific case you have to remember that that is A LONG travel day for the kids and their adults. You don't know why they are traveling, when they got up, how much their routine has been completely trashed or anything else.  They were probably overwhelmed with the experience, sick and tired of travel, exhausted from being schlepped from place to place, missing regular meals and naps. And possibly visiting people and places that were new and scary to them.  Despite being able to talk they can't express all that, they may not even be able to fully grasp it. But they need to release all those feelings, but complaining about more travel or whining about boredom were accessible feelings.  Also, their parents were probably feeling most of those things too and had run out of good coping mechanisms some time ago.

In general it's a good idea to help them through the tough feelings, no matter what the tantrum is over- a broken cracker or the wrong colored shirt or whatever. Because it's never about that, really- it's about being in a place where they can no longer stuff emotions inside and "suck it up".  A meltdown is often a release for all the stressors that have been building for them- all the other times in the last while that they've had to "suck it up".  Other tantrums are about feeling misunderstood.  My 3 year old had a major going out the door meltdown the other day because she said "spray my hair" and i thought she said "braid my hair"  She just lost it when I wouldn't listen and kept trying to braid her hair.  When your speech isn't at the adult level, and you struggle to understand your own feelings and desires to begin with, feeling misunderstood happens a lot.  And that can be one of the worst feelings for little kids.  Even  a small misunderstanding can trigger all the feelings brought up by previous incidents.

Parents are in it for the long haul- a quick lecture, sharp remark, rebuke or punishment MIGHT stop a tantrum in the moment. But will only increase poor behavior later. It's usually best to empathize (while maintaining limits) and let the upset ride out.

If I was talking to the kid complaining about 2 train rides I'd try to say something like "It's been a really long travel day, hasn't it? i'm tired of traveling too"  and then let the conversation go from there.  I'd mention as well that 2 trains are the only way i know how to get to our destination today. So empathize with the child's feelings (all this travel sucks) while explaining while yes, it still needs to be done.

for the bored kid "all this sitting today gets really boring. You've had a long day already- you've done such a great job. Everyone gets bored sitting on planes sometimes, what can we find to do?"   I'd also want to make sure both kids had something to eat, and maybe wind the "big girl" down for a nap (sounds like she needed it).  BUT I wouldn't judge these parents in this situation. They may be exhausted too, out of tricks in the trick bag, and just trying to get through it.  They've probably gone "whine" deaf anyway, most of us do at some point. And if they were traveling for something like a funeral they may be dealing with grief and family issues as well.