Jessa, Ben, and Spurgeon part 4

[patsymae]

On March 29, 2016 at 6:51 AM, guitar_villain said:

Speaking as an adoptive parent, that's way too short.  Your hormones aren't even remotely back to normal three days after birth.  Virginia, where we adopted, is a month and some states it's up to a year, which given the tension of waiting on a birthmother to rescind at any time seems too long to me.

I know some families where they didn't want the child until it was our of foster care and legally ready for adoption.  We took ours home from the hospital as soon as we could and just lived with the risk.

The whole five day adoption thing really doesn't sit well with me.  It should take a lot longer than that.

Good for you for wanting to be ethical. Florida is set up to be an "adoption friendly" (ie., screw the natural parents) state, almost as bad as Utah. Being an "adoption professional" is very lucrative there, and it's a haven for PAPs who want a baby as fast--although in the case of FLA definitely not as cheap--as possible without having to worry about the other people involved in the scenario.

[SassyPants]

11 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Thanks all! You guys really do make me feel so much better and I appreciate it more than I can even explain. I don't really have much support in the "real world"...just my husband and parents. So you are all fantastic!

And the boner comment made me laugh out loud.  

Does he/you sign?

[foreign fundie]

Don't get me going on babies and toddlers having meltdowns in planes. Please be merciful and remember, though it is seriously annoying for you, it is worse for the parents who cannot sleep either, feel guilty about keeping everyone awake and then cannot do anything to stop it, because you can't walk around with them or let them lie down and tuck them in. 

Little ones cry usually because their routine is upset. They've missed naps, there is too much sensory stimulation when travelling and they don't feel safe enough to sleep. 

Keeping a child with a meltdown in a airplane seatbelt is next to impossible since they are too easy to undo. when I finally got them settled with some crayons, that would be the time the trays had to go up for take off or landing. When I had a baby in a basinet, the moment they fell asleep, there would be minimal turbulence and I'd have to take him or her out. How would you feel if you finally fell asleep after an exhausting day and they take you out of bed five minutes later. 

Oh and 1-2 yos usually can't sit still for any length of time when awake. They have to move around.

Planes are little person unfriendly in the extreme. A tiny play pen, little bunk cribs, proper baby belts they can't undo or slide out of, appropriate food choices and a bit of flexibility with rules would come a long way.

Before I had kids of my own I watched a little girl having a melt down in a plane. Her mum put her on her back and kept rocking in her seat the whole flight while she screamed. As we landed, she threw up all over her mum and her mums bags, clothes, hair, everything. All I could do was get my kleenex out and wipe her off a bit, but she looked like she needed more than a kleenex. So again, have mercy on parents in planes.

 

[ksgranola1]

There was a 3 yo girl in church whose mother tried desperately to get her to sit on the pew & color. But the kid wanted to lie down on the floor. The more the mother tried to get her up, the louder she protested. And I've seen a kid go berserk about the airplane seat belt. I would just never take a kid under 5 on a plane. I was seriously impressed w/my neighbor who took all 3 kids, one a baby, to Ireland.

Ever watch The Little Couple?18 hours to India w/a 2 yo. And coming back they had 2 kids.

[Timetostoplurking]

I once took my 2 boys, ( aged 3 and 4) on a 4 hour plane ride.  They slept the whole time!   I got sooooo lucky.  Btw my 3 year old was severely autistic.  Also I was 7 months pregnant. Lol.  I trot that story out to new parents all the time.  To this day, 18 years later, I concider it my greatest parenting achievement!!    

[Shadoewolf]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Does he/you sign?

I was going to ask this too.  We used basic ASL for awhile, an Dr Seuss has this awesome book "My Many Colored Days" that we used to help assign colors to feelings so even if our son wouldn't verbalize we could sort of understand him.

[ClaraOswin]

9 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

When I was teaching middle school, I had OK Days, Bad Days, and TIE MY TUBES NOW SO I NEVER UNLEASH CHILDREN LIKE THIS UPON THE WORLD Days. I loved those kids, but they drove me bonkers.

Also, FJers, as a non-parent I want to ask: how do you deal with kids who throw tantrums? I'm asking because on my flight back from my vacation yesterday, there was a kid screaming bloody murder for about half the flight, another kid crying because she was bored (oh, you're bored on a nice comfy airplane to London? I'm sure all those Syrian and Afghan kids drowning in the Mediterranean on inflatable dinghies sure feel sorry for your plight), and another crying because going on two trains (transferring, I guess) was somehow disagreeable. Screamer I could understand (pressure changes hurt), but the other two -- how do you reason with them and teach them that those are not good reasons to cry? Bored Kid started chanting "I'm a big girl" in between wails of "I'M BOOOOOOOOORED" and I was so tempted to say "if you whine about being bored, you're not a big girl", but I figured I'd let her parents handle her and stay out of it.

Everyone else pretty much covered the basics. A lot of it also depends on the child's age/maturity.

We flew with our 1.5 year old last year. It wasn't as bad as I thought but it wasn't great either. He got motion sick the first flight and threw up on me, himself, the seat, the aisle. It was...lovely. The people in the seats near us were super nice though. We lucked out that we didn't have judgey folks near us. Maybe it helped that our son is cute...haha. 

We will be flying with him at 3.5 a half (next year) and I am already nervous for it. Especially since he has delays that aren't apparent just by looking. So some people may expect him to be a certain way but they don't get it. I would love to drive to our destination but it would take at least 3 days, each way. Which just isn't possible for us at this time.

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Does he/you sign?

He can sign "more" but that's the only he's picked up on. We've been doing various signs for over a year now. He hasn't picked them up really. He doesn't usually look at us when we make them so it seems a bit pointless, honestly. We do hand-over-hand for some. But again, he hasn't taken to it. One of his speech teacher is REALLY into signing. I can see how it would be really beneficial for kids but it just doesn't seem to be helping him at all. I kind of wish she'd try some new methods or something. 

[EmmieJ]

9 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

how do you reason with them and teach them that those are not good reasons to cry?

See, there's your problem right there.  Thinking you can reason with a child who is having a tantrum/melt down episode   Once a child has hit the tantrum stage, it's too late to reason with them.  Frantically trying to redirect is probably the best you can hope for. 

I know it's unpleasant to be stuck listening to a child have a melt down.  It's waaaaaay worse to be the parent trying to calmly deal with the situation while you feel the disapproving stares of strangers all around you.  Sometimes there are other issues at play that aren't obvious.  Since I've been there, done that, I mostly just feel sympathy for the parents, if it looks like they are trying their best.  What I don't want to see is a parent smacking their child or escalating the situation.  Also, being confined to a small space for many hours is like torture to a lot of kids.  It is boring, it is unfamiliar, and if they reach the end of their limited rope, they are going to whine and complain.  My son is almost 18, and he hates riding the bus or long car rides still and starts complaining about it.  No melt downs, thank God, but that antsiness is still there and he's still figuring out how to keep his cool when all he wants is for the ride to be over.

[nastyhobbitses]

2 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

See, there's your problem right there.  Thinking you can reason with a child who is having a tantrum/melt down episode   Once a child has hit the tantrum stage, it's too late to reason with them.  Frantically trying to redirect is probably the best you can hope for. 

I know it's unpleasant to be stuck listening to a child have a melt down.  It's waaaaaay worse to be the parent trying to calmly deal with the situation while you feel the disapproving stares of strangers all around you.  Sometimes there are other issues at play that aren't obvious.  Since I've been there, done that, I mostly just feel sympathy for the parents, if it looks like they are trying their best.  What I don't want to see is a parent smacking their child or escalating the situation.  Also, being confined to a small space for many hours is like torture to a lot of kids.  It is boring, it is unfamiliar, and if they reach the end of their limited rope, they are going to whine and complain.  My son is almost 18, and he hates riding the bus or long car rides still and starts complaining about it.  No melt downs, thank God, but that antsiness is still there and he's still figuring out how to keep his cool when all he wants is for the ride to be over.

I do get it, and I sympathize with parents who have to deal with it and are doing their best, and the parents on the plane were being absolute champs dealing with their kids. Except Bored Kid's dad kicked my seat continually. Maybe he just had long legs. Eh, I listened to a really funny podcast recapping/snarking the Left Behind (Kirk Cameron) movies and prevented a collision between Bored Kid and a flight attendant with a drink cart, so it wasn't all bad. And the kids in question were cute when they weren't whining or screaming like banshees.

 

[SassyPants]

I would suggest ear plugs, movies, music, books on tape for airplane rides for all adults-LOL!

[Bad Wolf]

Back to Ben. Is Moody college accredited? I saw that it had some accreditation, but not sure if it's the same as a state university would have. Also, I read on Pickles that he can only do a year of distance learning, then he would have to go to Chicago. Can we see this happening, or will he find another online college to get a fake degree?

[ClaraOswin]

I could maybe see them moving (temporarily) to Chicago...but only for TLC and the cameras.

[quiverofdoubt]

57 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

See, there's your problem right there.  Thinking you can reason with a child who is having a tantrum/melt down episode   Once a child has hit the tantrum stage, it's too late to reason with them.  Frantically trying to redirect is probably the best you can hope for. 

I know it's unpleasant to be stuck listening to a child have a melt down.  It's waaaaaay worse to be the parent trying to calmly deal with the situation while you feel the disapproving stares of strangers all around you.  Sometimes there are other issues at play that aren't obvious.  Since I've been there, done that, I mostly just feel sympathy for the parents, if it looks like they are trying their best.  What I don't want to see is a parent smacking their child or escalating the situation.  Also, being confined to a small space for many hours is like torture to a lot of kids.  It is boring, it is unfamiliar, and if they reach the end of their limited rope, they are going to whine and complain.  My son is almost 18, and he hates riding the bus or long car rides still and starts complaining about it.  No melt downs, thank God, but that antsiness is still there and he's still figuring out how to keep his cool when all he wants is for the ride to be over.

This.  All of this, thank you! you put it very nicely.  Also if a kid is crying than they DO have a good reason to cry. It's never very helpful to tell someone that they shouldn't feel the way they do because someone else has it much worse.  You can always find someone who has it much worse than you, in any situation, that doesn't invalidate your own feelings or situation.

and @nastyhobbitses the dad kicking your seat really sucks. I let that kind of thing slide with kids, even if i get annoyed, but an adult? yeah, not cool. My husband is over 6 foot and has long legs, but he is always respectful to the person in the seat in front.

8 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Back to Ben. Is Moody college accredited? I saw that it had some accreditation, but not sure if it's the same as a state university would have. Also, I read on Pickles that he can only do a year of distance learning, then he would have to go to Chicago. Can we see this happening, or will he find another online college to get a fake degree?

 

I don't see them going to Chicago, but then again the Dullards are in cintrl 'merica, so who knows?  but this circle of folks seem pretty happy with fake degrees too.  And don't really care about follow through much either. The whole thing could just be dropped in favor of another story line and we never hear anymore about it.

[patsymae]

8 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

This.  All of this, thank you! you put it very nicely.  Also if a kid is crying than they DO have a good reason to cry. It's never very helpful to tell someone that they shouldn't feel the way they do because someone else has it much worse.  You can always find someone who has it much worse than you, in any situation, that doesn't invalidate your own feelings or situation.

and @nastyhobbitses the dad kicking your seat really sucks. I let that kind of thing slide with kids, even if i get annoyed, but an adult? yeah, not cool. My husband is over 6 foot and has long legs, but he is always respectful to the person in the seat in front.

I don't see them going to Chicago, but then again the Dullards are in cintrl 'merica, so who knows?  but this circle of folks seem pretty happy with fake degrees too.  And don't really care about follow through much either. The whole thing could just be dropped in favor of another story line and we never hear anymore about it.

Kind of like kittens and gardens.

[Kira]

53 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Back to Ben. Is Moody college accredited? I saw that it had some accreditation, but not sure if it's the same as a state university would have. Also, I read on Pickles that he can only do a year of distance learning, then he would have to go to Chicago. Can we see this happening, or will he find another online college to get a fake degree?

Moody Bible Institute is fully accredited: http://www.moody.edu/accreditations-affiliations/    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Learning_Commission

 

I can see Jessa and Ben moving to Chicago

 

[Becket70]

Well, there goes my theory that JB wants to keep Bin unemployed and near-by so to keep him from straying from Jessa. Still, I can't see him moving to Chicago with the little lady and Spurg.  I also am in a negative enough mood today (a bird dropped part of a snake on my patio last evening and this morning a bottle of wine fell out of the grocery bag and onto the garage floor as I was bringing the groceries in....the bottle of wine didn't make it) to think this is just another storyline that will be dropped in the near future. 

[Bad Wolf]

If they do move to Chicago, there could be an extra mouth to feed. It's a year away.

[Audrey2]

The Seewalds can't move to Chicago for more education. Look how Josh fell apart in Washington DC. Chicago has historically, been known for more corruption and gangsters. Who knows how this might influence Bin? 

[quiverofdoubt]

1 hour ago, patsymae said:

Kind of like kittens and gardens.

Google failed me. I'm missing the reference. 

[Hera]

17 minutes ago, Becket70 said:

Well, there goes my theory that JB wants to keep Bin unemployed and near-by so to keep him from straying from Jessa. Still, I can't see him moving to Chicago with the little lady and Spurg.  I also am in a negative enough mood today (a bird dropped part of a snake on my patio last evening and this morning a bottle of wine fell out of the grocery bag and onto the garage floor as I was bringing the groceries in....the bottle of wine didn't make it) to think this is just another storyline that will be dropped in the near future. 

Ugh.  I hate it when this happens!  

As for Bin, I don't see them all moving to Chicago.  I just don't get the impression these people value education enough to bother.  

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I would suggest ear plugs, movies, music, books on tape for airplane rides for all adults-LOL!

I would add, Xanax for those not opposed to taking the occasionally tranquilizer.  I am nervous about flying, so my doctor will prescribe a small amount for me whenever I have to take a flight.  (I think it was Xanax, or something like it.  I took one little pill before each flight, and it made me very relaxed and a little sleepy, but not so doped up I couldn't function in an emergency).

[Chickenbutt]

2 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

We will be flying with him at 3.5 a half (next year) and I am already nervous for it. Especially since he has delays that aren't apparent just by looking. So some people may expect him to be a certain way but they don't get it. I would love to drive to our destination but it would take at least 3 days, each way. Which just isn't possible for us at this time.

When my kids were little, we flew quite a bit. One thing I always found helpful was "goody bags". I bought two small backpacks (little kid sized) and let the boys paint anything they wanted on them. When I would fill them up with stuff from the dollar store.....handpuppets, little puzzles, coloring books and crayons, Matchbox cars etc. Anything I knew they liked. I never let them see what was going in the bag so they looked forward to seeing what new toy they had to play with. I also packed treats that I knew they liked and tried to sneak in granola bars and the like. Also added juice boxes. My suggestion is to think of things your child likes at home, then buy those kinda things to add to the bag.

I do recall a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle flying a few rows in front of us and landing in a businessman's lap tho. Luckily, he took it all in stride and came back and talked all about TMNT's with my son.

[ClaraOswin]

That's pretty much what we did last time. We brought brand new toys and books to give him throughout the flight. He also liked the magazines in the seat pocket. Our flights to California weren't too bad (minus the puking) but the flights home were pretty awful. Too late in the day. Cranky before we even got on the plane. Lots of turbulence. His favorite "toy" that occupied his time the most was one of the pill cases that had a bunch of little doors for him to open and close. I put cheerios in it. Probably "bad" because he'll think pill cases are filled with goodies but we don't leave those laying around the house. Haha.

[season of life]

49 minutes ago, Becket70 said:

Well, there goes my theory that JB wants to keep Bin unemployed and near-by so to keep him from straying from Jessa. Still, I can't see him moving to Chicago with the little lady and Spurg.  I also am in a negative enough mood today (a bird dropped part of a snake on my patio last evening and this morning a bottle of wine fell out of the grocery bag and onto the garage floor as I was bringing the groceries in....the bottle of wine didn't make it) to think this is just another storyline that will be dropped in the near future. 

The Seewalds in Chicago? Ugh. It could be possible, since Josh and Jill moved away from Arkansas. I don't see it because of Ben's laziness, but it could happen.

Oh, and I'm sorry for your loss. The wine deserved a better life than it got.

[Bad Wolf]

I flew to England every couple of years when Wolf 1 and 2 were small. 11 hour flight. Sometimes Mr. Wolf was with me, sometimes not. I had the goody bags, and they used to hand out activity bags, before the screen on the back of the seats. It was a night flight, which helped.