Jill Duggar Dillard Part 11

[quiverofdoubt]

6 minutes ago, LittleSpouseOnThePrairie said:

I think Jill raising a child relatively on her own away from her family is the best lesson she can be learning right now. It will force her to grow up, problem solve, and become a little more realistic about child rearing. I remember being so relived to hear her acknowledge it was a lot different when the baby is your own. She is inevitably going to make some mistakes, but I hope she learns how to be a parent without relying on siblings. 

Jill? no. Jessa *maybe*.  I think Jill is a lot more likely to suffer an emotional break down before growing from the experience. When she alone has to "train up" her children, and do all the teaching and indoctrination, i think it will be too much. She's only experienced with kids who have been beaten down. I think she's more likely to take more and more extreme measures in order to gain control over the situation. They believe children need to be subservient, obedient and submissive. Children are not born this way and she will do a lot of harm, just like her parents did, in order to get her children to that point. I do not see her strong enough to patiently and lovingly parent a strong willed child without employing pearls teachings.  If iz is a strong willed kid it will break her. 

Coming from the mother of an exceptionally strong willed child. And i'm actually experienced in childhood psychology, and preschool teaching others strong willed children. and consider myself a much stronger person than jill.  My child has broken me several times thus far.  Then again, my goal isn't to create a subservient, obedient pushover child for jesus.

2 minutes ago, jcanglin991 said:

Mostly I lurk here because I'm an introvert and everybody says what I think before I do, but saying the Duggars ignore possible allergies because they live and grocery shop in the south makes no sense. I live in the south and have access to many healthy alternatives. Even Walmart, which so many people hate, has alternatives. Piggly Wiggly is not our only option, nor is it theirs.  The more likely reason is that the Duggars see themselves as superior and refuse to believe any of them could be less than perfect and need accomodations, such as special food. Those children are just part of the herd. If it's not important to JB or Michelle it is not important

 

I was just brainstorming all possible answers. I was just thinking that a majority of their shopping is probably not done at whole foods or trader joes or similar places, and have less easy and cheap access to soy/almond etc alternatives.  Not saying no one in the south does, but in their case they may have to drive past tontitown to get it. And are they really willing to do that for one kid? like you said, no one gets special accommodations.   which would include going out of their way, even to a different aisle in the grocery, to get special cheese, than make a special pizza, just for josie.  Anyone ever see them order a lactose intolerant friendly pizza when they do pizza night?

[Drala]

10 minutes ago, ClaraOswin said:

I agree. I wouldn't call her a funny looking child at all. She looks similar to many micropreemies but I don't think that is "funny" looking.

I knew my comment about FLIK would not go down well.  "Funny" looking as in odd or different.  Many medical workers haven't seen that many micro-preemies as toddlers or preschoolers, and don't immediately recognize what they're seeing.   

[OnceUponATime]

5 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

  I think Jill is a lot more likely to suffer an emotional break down before growing from the experience. When she alone has to "train up" her children, and do all the teaching and indoctrination, i think it will be too much. She's only experienced with kids who have been beaten down. I think she's more likely to take more and more extreme measures in order to gain control over the situation. They believe children need to be subservient, obedient and submissive. Children are not born this way and she will do a lot of harm, just like her parents did, in order to get her children to that point. I do not see her strong enough to patiently and lovingly parent a strong willed child without employing pearls teachings.  If iz is a strong willed kid it will break her.

I agree. I actually think Jill being so far away from her family could be far more detrimental to her than good. She has no support system there, she is isolated, she has a young child, she is still adjusting to being married, she is still learning how to cope with not have 18 people in the same room as her *all* the time. Does she even know how to make friends with people she doesn't know? (not snarking here, this is a real problem for lots of people, me included)
The problem with her making mistakes in childrearing (in response to LSotP) is I think that the only people she will ask for advice are her family members via Skype. But maybe they are more involved in the local community and are making real supportive friends down there (which would make it less of a problem), but I doubt it (and it really isn't that easy to make a good network of people in a foreign country).

[jacduggar]

I am also lactose intolerant and, while I can handle very small amounts of Greek yogurt or natural cheese, I don't even risk it. My intolerance is very sensitive so even eating regular yogurt has me throwing up :/.

 

I am deathly allergic to shellfish. I can't even touch it without swelling up. This makes it hard to go out to eat, and also to buy fresh meat at the supermarket because of potential cross contamination. Allergies really are no joke and I agree that people who have the slightest intolerance think they're allergic, which makes people with real allergies look like we are being dramatic. If I ingest shellfish, I will most likely die. It's really not a joke. 

[quiverofdoubt]

15 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

I agree. I actually think Jill being so far away from her family could be far more detrimental to her than good. She has no support system there, she is isolated, she has a young child, she is still adjusting to being married, she is still learning how to cope with not have 18 people in the same room as her *all* the time. Does she even know how to make friends with people she doesn't know? (not snarking here, this is a real problem for lots of people, me included)
The problem with her making mistakes in childrearing (in response to LSotP) is I think that the only people she will ask for advice are her family members via Skype. But maybe they are more involved in the local community and are making real supportive friends down there (which would make it less of a problem), but I doubt it (and it really isn't that easy to make a good network of people in a foreign country).

Exactly.  Not to mention being in a foreign country means having to function in a totally different culture.

Everyone makes mistakes childrearing. I do. Constantly. It's a learning process, and there's no one "right way" to do it. I however read, read, read, research, ask questions of varying people, and have a decent understanding of childhood development and psychology. I try my best to learn from my mistakes, and learn from my child, on a daily basis.  That is not the duggar way.  I do not think Jill will find a new way to parent, or make independent decisions about childrearing philosophies, or even begin to understand the damage she could do.

 I still don't understand the picture of iz swaddled and screaming. It is not normal to swaddle children after the newborn stage. It seems like she may be taking blanket training to all new levels. But who knows.  

She may learn a lot about children by having her own and not just babysitting siblings. But those lessons will be learned at the expense of her children.

[Coconut Flan]

Quote

I was just thinking that a majority of their shopping is probably not done at whole foods or trader joes or similar places, and have less easy and cheap access to soy/almond etc alternatives.

Good thought, but Wal Mart in Arkansas carries soy and almond milk.  They also carry lactaid tablets in a store generic.  

[quiverofdoubt]

1 minute ago, Coconut Flan said:

Good thought, but Wal Mart in Arkansas carries soy and almond milk.  They also carry lactaid tablets in a store generic.  

good point.  alabama wal mart did not 10 years ago.  that's another thought- she could be given lactaid tablets so she can enjoy the same food her family does.

[Charliemae]

49 minutes ago, ClaraOswin said:

I agree. I wouldn't call her a funny looking child at all. She looks similar to many micropreemies but I don't think that is "funny" looking.

That's the point.  She looks like a child with potential delays.  As a Childcare provider I'd make a mental note to keep a close eye on her development.  It's not a value judgment.  It's more a way for people who work with kids to put that feeling of something not quite right into words.

[nst]

45 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

I agree. I actually think Jill being so far away from her family could be far more detrimental to her than good. She has no support system there, she is isolated, she has a young child, she is still adjusting to being married, she is still learning how to cope with not have 18 people in the same room as her *all* the time. Does she even know how to make friends with people she doesn't know? (not snarking here, this is a real problem for lots of people, me included)
The problem with her making mistakes in childrearing (in response to LSotP) is I think that the only people she will ask for advice are her family members via Skype. But maybe they are more involved in the local community and are making real supportive friends down there (which would make it less of a problem), but I doubt it (and it really isn't that easy to make a good network of people in a foreign country).

she could be afraid to disappoint not only Derick but her dad as well as her sisters. 

as for the problem of not knowing how to make friends - it is a problem - trust me - it is not easy 

you think you share with people but it bites you in the ass

you and I can be friends 

 

 

[quiverofdoubt]

5 minutes ago, Charliemae said:

That's the point.  She looks like a child with potential delays.  As a Childcare provider I'd make a mental note to keep a close eye on her development.  It's not a value judgment.  It's more a way for people who work with kids to put that feeling of something not quite right into words.

Exactly what I would've done when I was teaching. Perhaps do an extra developmental eval (we did them for all thekids anyway).  Perhaps suggest to the parents that she may benefit from further assessment, if they seemed open to it. But at the very least keep a close eye on her and keep extra notes in her file.  

[jcanglin991]

47 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

 

I was just brainstorming all possible answers. I was just thinking that a majority of their shopping is probably not done at whole foods or trader joes or similar places, and have less easy and cheap access to soy/almond etc alternatives.  Not saying no one in the south does, but in their case they may have to drive past tontitown to get it. And are they really willing to do that for one kid? like you said, no one gets special accommodations.   which would include going out of their way, even to a different aisle in the grocery, to get special cheese, than make a special pizza, just for josie.  Anyone ever see them order a lactose intolerant friendly pizza when theevey do pizza night?

I was mainly reacting to the point in your original post which said have you ever grocery shopped in the South, then referred to Piggly Wiggly as an overgrown  gas station. I'm not a particular fan of them but they are not akin to gas stations. The South encompasses a lot of area and some parts are quite sophisticated.  I know this is a snark site but there is no reason to disparage an entire region of the country, especially when there are many of us on this site who live  there and can refute what you have said. The Duggars have  been spotted in their local Walmart many times and seem to have no problem travelling when they want to. They  could find specialized foods quite easily if they were so inclined.

[OyToTheVey]

8 minutes ago, Charliemae said:

That's the point.  She looks like a child with potential delays.  As a Childcare provider I'd make a mental note to keep a close eye on her development.  It's not a value judgment.  It's more a way for people who work with kids to put that feeling of something not quite right into words.

Agreed! If that was my student, I probably would have lectured the parents on signs to look out for. I've given the soft version of that lecture so many times I have it memorized. I've watched videos of Josie a lot out of curiosity. She's definitely not developing on par with her peers. But then again even medical professionals aren't too sure because it's only in the last 10 years or so that micro preemies have been kept alive via machines.

It's back to the nature v. nurture debate. Is Josie the way she is because she's a micro preemie or have the Duggars fucked up their kid?

[quiverofdoubt]

1 minute ago, OyToTheVey said:

Agreed! If that was my student, I probably would have lectured the parents on signs to look out for. I've given the soft version of that lecture so many times I have it memorized. I've watched videos of Josie a lot out of curiosity. She's definitely not developing on par with her peers. But then again even medical professionals aren't too sure because it's only in the last 10 years or so that micro preemies have been kept alive via machines.

It's back to the nature v. nurture debate. Is Josie the way she is because she's a micro preemie or have the Duggars fucked up their kid?

a little of column a, a little of column b? 

 

5 minutes ago, jcanglin991 said:

I was mainly reacting to the point in your original post which said have you ever grocery shopped in the South, then referred to Piggly Wiggly as an overgrown  gas station. I'm not a particular fan of them but they are not akin to gas stations. The South encompasses a lot of area and some parts are quite sophisticated.  I know this is a snark site but there is no reason to disparage an entire region of the country, especially when there are many of us on this site who live  there and can refute what you have said. The Duggars have  been spotted in their local Walmart many times and seem to have no problem travelling when they want to. They  could find specialized foods quite easily if they were so inclined.

I didn't really think that through, or mean to disparage the entire south. I apologize for that.  My experience trying to get fresh fruits and veggies, outside of the city limits, in alabama, a few years ago, was very sorry. The local grocery store was a piggly wiggle, where my step grandma and most locals shopped. 1/3 of the store was dedicated to sodas, we couldn't find a single loaf of whole wheat bread. not one. there was no veggie dept at all. and the cheese selection was only american cheese. I guess what I wanted to say is to keep it in perspective- if you are used to being able to easily drive to a health food store of choice, or walk to a flourishing farmers market, then certain areas of this country might be a bit surprising. Not everyone has easy access to healthy food in this country.  Money and transportation are not limits the duggars have, but they show no evidence that they care to spend that money on healthy food.  Michelle once said grapes were a very special treat because they cost so much.  I doubt any of those kids have had home cooked fish.  They may have access to those options, but don't care to "waste" money on it. Iphones are clearly more important to them.

[2manyKidzzz]

Having had a child with the food triggered migraines I mentioned earlier, now 21, I can say that my experience was that people are very emotionally invested in food. It is better now. I had one friend yelling at me when i told her I had figured out what was going on. My husband didn't believe it, but followed the rules. People then thought of the grocery store as a temple with everything in it that was good for you. Insane. So I totallly understand the intolerance, allergy, celieac issues and think they should be respected. Why eat something that will make you sick. I drove all over looking for a few items that were hard to  come by at  that time. The company that  made the simple crackers he loved and could eat discontinued them  and when I found that out, I called the company and persuaded them to send me one of their last cases. It was all  very real. What you put in your mouth matters. 

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

On January 25, 2016 at 7:58 AM, OnceUponATime said:

I agree. I actually think Jill being so far away from her family could be far more detrimental to her than good. She has no support system there, she is isolated, she has a young child, she is still adjusting to being married, she is still learning how to cope with not have 18 people in the same room as her *all* the time. Does she even know how to make friends with people she doesn't know? (not snarking here, this is a real problem for lots of people, me included)
The problem with her making mistakes in childrearing (in response to LSotP) is I think that the only people she will ask for advice are her family members via Skype. But maybe they are more involved in the local community and are making real supportive friends down there (which would make it less of a problem), but I doubt it (and it really isn't that easy to make a good network of people in a foreign country).

I can Indeed see how being down there alone will either make her or break her. I am afraid though that if she can't take it anymore and comes home that everyone will make fun of her for not being able to hack it - or worse - they will stay there longer than they should just to try to save face and prove they can do it. I guess I naively felt like getting through that experience would hopefully make her a stronger woman, but when you're taught that women aren't strong to begin with, maybe she really doesn't stand a chance... 

My own line of questioning brings me back to why they really went down there in the first place. Did they not want to wait until Izzy was older because they thought it wouldn't be an issue? Or was it like they knew he was too young but were just desperate to leave town? We only see what they post online or scenes from television so it's hard to really know what goes on and is said behind closed doors, and speculation can be so unsatisfying you know? 

[jcanglin991]

2 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

a little of column a, a little of column b? 

 

I didn't really think that through, or mean to disparage the entire south. I apologize for that.  My experience trying to get fresh fruits and veggies, outside of the city limits, in alabama, a few years ago, was very sorry. The local grocery store was a piggly wiggle, where my step grandma and most locals shopped. 1/3 of the store was dedicated to sodas, we couldn't find a single loaf of whole wheat bread. not one. there was no veggie dept at all. and the cheese selection was only american cheese. I guess what I wanted to say is to keep it in perspective- if you are used to being able to easily drive to a health food store of choice, or walk to a flourishing farmers market, then certain areas of this country might be a bit surprising. Not everyone has easy access to healthy food in this country.  Money and transportation are not limits the duggars have, but they show no evidence that they care to spend that money on healthy food.  Michelle once said grapes were a very special treat because they cost so much.  I doubt any of those kids have had home cooked fish.  They may have access to those options, but don't care to "waste" money on it. Iphones are clearly more important to them.

I appreciate the apology. Unfortunately, the South is often the butt of easy jokes and those of us who are proud to be here and know that we are not as backward as some people would like to think tend to take umbrage. I think we can agree that the Duggars are the ones who are behind the times.

[OyToTheVey]

I'm having a lot of issues with the pictures I see of Izzy. Jill is not handling motherhood well at all. That child is what 9 months old now? He should not be swaddled. That video they posted of them keeping him laying down to take that picture. So wrong. Why couldn't they just keep him seated? There's no reason to stop an active child from moving around freely. 

Also, I feel like Jill is going to have a breakdown. She just seems stressed all the time. The fake smile isn't hiding much imo.

[quiverofdoubt]

Just now, jcanglin991 said:

I appreciate the apology. Unfortunately, the South is often the butt of easy jokes and those of us who are proud to be here and know that we are not as backward as some people would like to think tend to take umbrage. I think we can agree that the Duggars are the ones who are behind the times.

My step aunt grew up there, moved to tennessee, was diagnosed as celiacs, and is generally left wing.  I don't think that the south is all backwards. But it takes some self educating and effort to eat healthy (not to mention self discipline). And that's if you have great access to resources. Where i live the produce at wal mart is pretty sorry, sad to say. Limited in variety, rarely fresh.  

I know the duggars can drive to a local city that is fairly cutting edge. They could easily go out of their way to feed their kids a tad more healthy than tater tot casserole. Actually, you can do better than that no matter where you shop.  But if they aren't even willing to purchase fresh fruit because it costs too much, how likely are they to pay for soy cheese or soy milk?  For just one kid. I mean, does michelle even know that josie exists still? she seems to only vaguely be aware that she has children in the house. Never the less one who might suffer from belly aches, head aches or who knows what, when fed regular dairy. They just don't seem to care.

[Bad Wolf]

It's hard to tell from what we've seen if Josie is actually delayed. One thing we can be sure of is that she will never be in a situation, like school, to be properly evaluated. It will be up to her "parents", and how scary is that?

[jcanglin991]

Michelle is in granny mode at this point. She thinks all her kids are grown. This is probably because she handed them off to the older girls to raise after the first few. She only pretends to pay attention when there is a camera on her. She and JB worry more about speaking  engagements, anti-abortion rallies, and preening in front of fellow ATI/IBLP members than their family.

Just noticed I graduated to Bathroom Baby. Yay?

[Hera]

@quiverofdoubt:  I'm not sure where you lived in Alabama, but I grew up there in a really small 2 grocery store town and even 30 years ago, there was actual produce in the stores.  And real cheese.  And whole wheat bread.  I know, because that's what we ate.  Maybe not soy or almond milk, since that trend (outside the medical context, obviously) didn't catch on until much more recently, but in every single grocery store (including the Piggly Wiggly), you can get "real" produce and food.  Can you get junk? Sure, but you can get a lot of junk at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's, too, and in any other grocery store in this country.  Now whether the Duggars choose to buy that stuff is a different question, but it's there for the buying.  

[quiverofdoubt]

3 minutes ago, Hera said:

@quiverofdoubt:  I'm not sure where you lived in Alabama, but I grew up there in a really small 2 grocery store town and even 30 years ago, there was actual produce in the stores.  And real cheese.  And whole wheat bread.  I know, because that's what we ate.  Maybe not soy or almond milk, since that trend (outside the medical context, obviously) didn't catch on until much more recently, but in every single grocery store (including the Piggly Wiggly), you can get "real" produce and food.  Can you get junk? Sure, but you can get a lot of junk at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's, too, and in any other grocery store in this country.  Now whether the Duggars choose to buy that stuff is a different question, but it's there for the buying.  

I didn't live, visited. My grandparents lived there.  This was near Killen, maybe in killen.  At the time it wasn't booming like it is now. In fact, when my grandparents lived there it had a population of a few dozen or so. Had one restaurant, and I think the piggly wiggly as outside town limits. the local public library was a bookshelf in a ladies house (i think we had to call before going to see if she was home).  My mom and I hunted that store for whole wheat for 30 minutes, moving loaves of bread around and asking the cashier. It was not an option.

[Screamapillar]

The Piggly Wigglys where I grew up in South Carolina are awesome. They have all the best local produce. Green peanuts, field peas, sweet corn, tomatoes....yum!

Of course, the Duggars could walk into the fanciest grocery store on earth and walk out with only the basic ingredients for tater tot casserole and chickenetti.

Back to Jill, I get the feeling that she may very well be overwhelmed, but too smug to admit it. 

[justoneoftwo]

I have lived all over the country and find that healthy foods are available basically everywhere.  They may look different (particularly which veggies are there) and particular items may be hard to find (my local stores don't do kosher, well one does but that's it) but there are options.  Now if your going to the closest one only, in a very rural area you may have a harder time.  Personally I don't believe many people shop at those stores for their main supplies.  Instead they use it for the emergency oops need more flour type things.  They drive further for their weekly shopping, and those stores have more options.  

[nokidsmom]

1 minute ago, Screamapillar said:

The Piggly Wigglys where I grew up in South Carolina are awesome. They have all the best local produce. Green peanuts, field peas, sweet corn, tomatoes....yum!

Of course, the Duggars could walk into the fanciest grocery store on earth and walk out with only the basic ingredients for tater tot casserole and chickenetti.

Back to Jill, I get the feeling that she may very well be overwhelmed, but too smug to admit it. 

We had a Piggly Wiggly in our neighborhood and it was awesome.  Smaller grocery store compared to the other supermarkets in the area, but it had plenty of what we needed in terms of produce and meat.  They had their own butchers and if you were looking for something specific, they could get it for you.   It closed a few years ago and I really miss it.  We are in northern IL, the store was part of a PIggly Wiggly chain based in WI.