Lori Alexander - Still Not Learning A Thing, Part 4

[formergothardite]

You know Ken is working feverishly typing up an epic reply about how he is right and Dave and Jesus are wrong. 

[Walking Cat Bed]

3 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

I think it is time for a repost of this trenchant commentary on male allure:

thesaltcollective.org/modesty-whensuitsbecomestumblingblock/

 

Ow, ow, OW! I just stumbled about twenty times.

[Koala]

Ken has replied.  And I'm pretty sure hebroke the internet.  Going to leave it here because surely to God he'll have the sense to have The Godly Mentor delete the whole mess at some point:

Ken Alexander reply #1

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OK Dave, I think I get what your unbalanced view is purporting, and hence you are one who this post is directed to. 

The balance I am asking for is exactly what you seek. To believe all of God's Word, yet one must hold truth within the tension of the rest of truth within God's Word. Indeed God's Word is the box into which truth must be tempered or balanced to see and understand its nuances clearly. It is for this reason that God looks at the heart and motives in judging sin, not simply the letter of the law. 

Two men show up at the door looking for your daughter who has stolen $1,000 from their drug dealing outfit. You know they mean to harm her. "Is your daughter home?" 

"Oh yes, let me go get her for you because I will never tell a lie as God commands against it!" 

Is this your response? Or do you do the best lying and deceiving you possibly can because you know you will violate many other truths of God's Word if you simply hand your daughter over to these thugs. You do not expect to stand before God some day and give an account for the "thou shalt not lie" in this situation because you know that the truth of love and protection for our family is the ruling truth in this context. 

Can we be so blinded to all of God's other commands to want to make "without a word" the end all and be all of submission? Can we not see that even as Christ pleased with words to His heavenly Father, that a wife may too plead with words to her spouse. 

You have fallen off the horse of truth if you see "without a word" as the preeminent principle of submission, then wiling to sacrifice many of God's others ideals to hold fast to it with no exceptions. I invite you and others who are so black and white on this truth to challenge yourself to see that we all must seek not just God's one verse Word on a matter, but God's will on the matter as shown by the whole Word of God, and in the example of the Word Christ Jesus. 

Is a wife to say nothing when she sees the impending disaster coming to her husband because she was taught "win him without a word?" Please rethink your position and leave room for all of God's truths to be held in a marvelous tension that manifests itself in the Truth of Christ Jesus.

He continues in reply #2:

Quote

cont. 
As for my words that Jesus was wrong for pleading with the Father I will rephrase those. Wrong does not mean sinful, but the analogy is quite clear. Here Jesus knew the plan of the Father yet still at the last minute he pleads with Him to remove the sufferings of the cross. He was not wrong in asking, and neither is a wife for speaking with words to a husband to plead her case. He is our example and to think that a wife is never to speak up to her husband is a black and white absurdity. How can one so over-emphasize one verse over so many other verses in the Bible that hold this verse in a correct tension so as to arrive at God's will for our lives? 

Both sides of this issue are dead wrong. Your side wanting no words and a silent wife and the other side who wants to throw out the verse because of the few exceptions that the other truths allow her. The heart that truly wants to please Jesus will see "win him without a word" or "the Word" as an ideal that must be followed by a godly wife for the proven God given results it delivers in winning her man. But this principle is not a hard fast rule never to be broken with no exception. Let's accept it as the model for a Christian wife, but let's also allow Believers to see true love for a husband that goes beyond this admonishment and seeks her husband's best at all times, even times she must use words to try to protect him, or save him from disaster, or just have a better marriage. The husband can then say to a wife "no more words on the matter" or "I am not interested." You are off base on truth to see this as so cardinal that it trumps the truth of a wife's commitment to seek her husband's best, not just to singularly live by rote admonishments of the scriptures, one at a time." 

I also don't appreciate godly men and women when they are absurd in their propositions and arguments. You know full well the "balance" I am speaking about and it is not balancing truth with a world view, or Satan's view. I state what I am balancing truth against in my opening sentences, yet you failed to see it multiple times: 

"All truth must stay in balance, and once one truth is emphasized disproportionately against another, one falls off the horse of truth and into something God does not intend for us to believe or live." 

I must admonish against Pharisaical thinking that leaves a man's animal in the ditch because it is the Sabbath, or walks by the injured unclean Gentile because I have been cleansed at the temple today. Is this not exactly what Jesus condemned most vehemently? Those who kept every part of the written law, yet failed in the greatest of commands to allow love to be the highest of God's ideals. No one is trying to throw out submission here or "win him without a word," but to the point of the post, thees two things cannot fit into the nice little black and white box you wish them to fit into.

 Hey Ken?  You seem to have forgotten to cite the scripture that you based your 13 paragraphs of word salad on.

For clarity:

Ken Alexander:

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Note that Jesus’ request was even wrong

Very clear...Jesus was not on The Horse of Truth

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Wrong does not mean sinful

Jesus was totally wrong!  But not sinful.  Just wrong.

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He was not wrong in asking

So he was wrong in asking. But being wrong isn't sinful.  He wasn't wrong.

Awesome.  Got it.  Thanks for clearing that up.

[formergothardite]

I am not even going to try to read all that. 

[Loveday]

6 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I am not even going to try to read all that. 

I wish I hadn't, it made my brain ache trying to keep up with his convoluted Godsplainin'. 

[Koala]

8 minutes ago, Loveday said:

I wish I hadn't, it made my brain ache trying to keep up with his convoluted Godsplainin'. 

And yet it contains not one shred of scripture.  

Lori has invited her readers to hold up her blog in light of the Bible, but when that is done, Ken rides in on his Horse of Truth- his and The Godly Mentor's TRUTH.  It has absolutely ZERO to do with the Bible.  

I am waiting for Dave's biting reply now.  Or for The Godly Mentor to scrub the comments.

[Curious]

5 hours ago, molecule said:

I  need some helping deciphering this from her post today:

I just don't get the logisitcs. I imagine if I were sitting on a tennis ball, it might induce accidental arousal--so now I'm imagining Lori masturbating with a tennis ball. I suppose a good orgasm could be the thing that helps her aches and pains, but I don't imagine that's what she means here. I just don't understand how you sit on a tennis ball. Can someone explain this to me?

I have a trigger point in my shoulder.  Here is a pretty good map showing all trigger points in the torso.  There are some in the legs, but they are not near the crotch area.  They are the same for all people.

I am not sure how sitting on a tennis ball on a hard chair would hit any trigger points unless Lori sits a lot differently than I do.

FTR, they hurt like a son-of-a-bitch.  I had to have physical therapy to get mine to settle the fuck down.

[OnceUponATime]

I too want the scriptural references. Especially for Ken's statement "All truth must stay in balance, and once one truth is emphasized disproportionately against another, one falls off the horse of truth and into something God does not intend for us to believe or live."

Also in answer to Ken's hypothetical situation I would tell the guys it is none of their business and call the cops. No lying/deceiving involved. No manipulating the tension of the truth box or however he may wish to state it.
After that situation the following (in quote box) was quite amusing to read. Either he doesn't appreciate himself or he thinks he isn't godly.

Quote

I also don't appreciate godly men and women when they are absurd in their propositions and arguments.

 

[ViolaSebastian]

I'm so confused, Ken!  Am I or am I not supposed to help my significant other cheat on his taxes?!

(Also, hilariously, when I was searching for the quote where Ken says to let your husband cheat on his taxes, I discovered there was a Lori Alexander tax service.  No relation to THE one-true-prophet Lori Alexander, but still...http://lebanonareachamber.chambermaster.com/list/member/lori-alexander-tax-services-lebanon-127.htm)

[older than allosaurs]

Why does Ken's hypothetical go straight to the lurid, where Dave's daughter goes around making drug buys from thugs? Could he not have come up with a less insulting example, or used himself as the father in the scenario?

[molecule]

So Ken says this in his reply:

Quote

You have fallen off the horse of truth if you see "without a word" as the preeminent principle of submission, then wiling to sacrifice many of God's others ideals to hold fast to it with no exceptions. I invite you and others who are so black and white on this truth to challenge yourself to see that we all must seek not just God's one verse Word on a matter, but God's will on the matter as shown by the whole Word of God, and in the example of the Word Christ Jesus. 

Um, isn't the "without a word" principle one of the big things Lori talks about? Maybe it isn't the preeminent principle to her, but it surely is a prominent one.

And maybe he should talk with Lori about being so black and white when she makes pronouncements about what God says and tells anyone who disagrees with her that they're disagreeing with God.

*sigh*

[Koala]

21 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I'm so confused, Ken!  Am I or am I not supposed to help my significant other cheat on his taxes?!

I think I finally figured that out.  According to The Horse of Truth you should help your spouse cheat on taxes for the following reasons:

1) You are exercising your freedom and liberty in Christ.  As Lori says, no one puts baby under the law (don't ask...I can only assume she had been watching Dirty Dancing).

2) The Bible says Thou Shall Not Steal, but it doesn't repeat it enough for Ken to think it was really of any importance.  They probably didn't mean it at all.

3)  If you embrace the TRUTH of Thou Shall Not Steal too much you will put the rest of scripture out of balance.  

4) When they let that one verse about stealing slip in, they didn't specify cheating on your taxes

5) If they come after you for cheating on your taxes, they have sinned greater than you have. 

Thus sayeth The Horse of Truth

[Florita]

Well, we knew it was going to be long & crazy, and Ken didn't let us down.

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To believe all of God's Word, yet one must hold truth within the tension of the rest of truth within God's Word.

Third sentence and already I’m confused.

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Is a wife to say nothing when she sees the impending disaster coming to her husband because she was taught "win him without a word?"

Win him without a word refers to bringing an unbelieving husband to faith, it doesn’t forbid yelling, “Watch out for that truck!”

Quote

 How can one so over-emphasize one verse over so many other verses in the Bible that hold this verse in a correct tension so as to arrive at God's will for our lives? 

Like Titus 2:3-5, the verses Lori considers to be the ultimate TRUTH that every woman needs to hear over and over ad nauseam? Her blog/mentoring/life revolves around those verses. The rest of Bible was written just as support material for those 3 verses.

I hope Dave fires back, but perhaps he’ll see this is a lost cause and walk away. I can’t believe Ken ever considered becoming a pastor. Scary.

[Koala]

Dr. Lori Alexander:

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Drugs are definitely my last resort compared to most people who go to drugs as their first resort. All drugs are toxic to the human body

Ken:

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Two men show up at the door looking for your daughter who has stolen $1,000 from their drug dealing outfit. 

Who the hell are these two hanging around?? 

[EmiGirl]

They also that forget that when Jesus was asked about paying taxes he said, "render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's"

[lynn0810]

I thought I could not be more annoyed with their twisting and misuse of "win without a word". Anytime someone tells her she is misinterpreting that verse she deletes them. I was wrong though because I want to throw my bible at the screen every time they use "horse of truth". 

I have had conversations with every kind of fundie, but I have never seen anything as confused, legalistic, and hypocritical as the Alexanders. The only reason they are not as dangerous as the Pearls is because they don't have as big of following. I actually thank God they are so dumb with their "brand", because it will keep them from going mainstream. Ugh. Rant over. 

[Koala]

On 1/29/2016 at 9:00 AM, Loveday said:

 " Don't spend a lot of money on your clothes since this is forbidden by the Lord."  "Costly array" doesn't mean we can only buy our clothes at the thrift store.

It seems like just yesterday she was bragging about her "expensive" Ray Ban sunglasses.  Of course sunglasses and clothes are totally different.  Jesus doesn't want you running up a tab on a bunch of clothes (unless it's an eShakti dress), but a good pair of shades are a necessity.  True facts.

[IrishCarrie]

I don't understand a word of what Ken wrote. I know it's Sunday morning here and that wouldn't exactly be a time of peak intelligence for me, but normally I can at least get the basic drift of what he's saying.

Today? Nope, not a clue. 

[salex]

I popped out to their blog to tead Ken's post and ended up reading comments on modesty....it read like a troll fest...modest 6 year olds, 45 year old horndogs leering at women in mini skirts with nylons and knee boots, anaoymous letters about ministers wives and women swimming while wearing a swimsuit  and  coverup....a smorgasbord of either bizarre nutjob s, faked responses created  by Lori  or Trolls or a mix of all these...comedy gold... but i still didnt see ken and Dave's  act....

[gWife]

1 hour ago, salex said:

I popped out to their blog to tead Ken's post and ended up reading comments on modesty....it read like a troll fest...modest 6 year olds, 45 year old horndogs leering at women in mini skirts with nylons and knee boots, anaoymous letters about ministers wives and women swimming while wearing a swimsuit  and  coverup....a smorgasbord of either bizarre nutjob s, faked responses created  by Lori  or Trolls or a mix of all these...comedy gold... but i still didnt see ken and Dave's  act....

I think it's in the submission-in-a-box post

 

[usmcmom]

Isn't Lori always telling us that there are no exceptions for submission? Isn't she the one who says "The scripture does not say 'submit to your husband unless....'"?  Now here they are, taking up gobs of space to tell us about godly exceptions. They'll change their tune just to argue.  As for the daughters and the drug dealers (Holy cow, that was bizarre); isn't that the kind of scenario a reader would present when pointing out the risk of abuse in submissive marriages, only to have Ken and Lori screech "You are talking about EXCEPTIONS!!! Those things never happen!"?

I'm a moderately, although evilly, educated woman and I could not make heads or tails of what Ken was writing.  I actually found it quite concerning. The man is coming unhinged.  His rambling long-winded posts with misplaced words, fractured thought process, and seeming inability to JUST STOP TYPING  are really bizarre....and a little frightening. 

[caszandra]

3 hours ago, IrishCarrie said:

I don't understand a word of what Ken wrote. I know it's Sunday morning here and that wouldn't exactly be a time of peak intelligence for me, but normally I can at least get the basic drift of what he's saying.

Today? Nope, not a clue. 

I'm with you on this one, not got a Scooby what the man is talking about.  All I can picture is both of them sitting in front of the computer going 'I'm right, your wrong' over and over again while they make up a bunch of shit to prove that they speak the one true word of God, even when it doesn't make a lick of sense to anyone but them.

[peachykeen]

I think Ken has been huffing too many essential oils.  His defence strategy seems to be, writing these absolutely long winded, nonsensical responses, in the hope that the original poster will just give up arguing the point. It's a marathon trying to read his rants, let alone trying to form a response.  I don't think I've come across anyone as blind to their own hypocrisy as these two. 

Something I thought interesting in Lori's profile blurb: "I love teaching women to be sober, to love their husbands and children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, and obedient to their husbands as the Bible instructs me to do."

of all the things she could mention first, Lori chooses Sober. I find that odd....perhaps Ken has a penchant for the sauce. Lol....would explain the rants.. 

[OnceUponATime]

What I think Ken was trying to communicate is this:

The Word of God contradicts itself. Therefore in order to live according to the Word you must perform  a highly complex choreographed dance with the Truth. You must make sure that you always apply just the right amount of Truth to your life as needed in each and every moment. Don't worry about it though, this is hard/impossible for most people. That is why our loving God doesn't look at what you do (annihilate an awesome dance) but what you meant to do (make a graceful solo in Swan Lake).

Jesus prayed(pleaded) to God before being crucified, therefore a wife should be permitted to do the same thing to her husband.
You should not exalt one principle from the Bible above all others - to do so means you have fallen off the Horse of Truth. God's truth is not black and white like you pharisees  legalists make it- God's word is greyscale (i wonder how many tints). 

I[Ken] misspoke when saying it was wrong of Jesus to plead (because my wife is not wrong when she speaks - unless she is wrong). You know what I mean and are just picking holes.(I think he means here it wasn't wrong of Jesus to plead - the wrongness was in what he was pleading: aka that God should throw his infallible plan away).

You should not over emphasis one verse (yes you, you quiverfullers!).
Everyone except Lori and I are wrong in this matter - you should all come join us in our position of compromise.

Therefore let you not concentrate of the laws but focus on the greatest commandment of all - Love.
The truth does not fit into all your little boxes and comes in diverse colors.

 

***

I grew up in churches where Ken's teachings would have him thrown out. I can't believe how many people are worshiping Lori when her blog is full of that. Lori and Ken have their own agenda and it doesn't really look like God's to me. More a holier than thou thing - although that is probably what attracts her minions looking at their views on modesty (a 6 year old immodestly dressed to sleep in a tank top? wtf. Then you have the joyful way that they boast about how they keep admonishing pastor's wives or children). This rabbithole is making me stabby

17 minutes ago, peachykeen said:

I love teaching women to be sober,

I thought she was meaning somber/subdued, not not-drunk (you probably know this though).

btw her latest post is awesome. the way it starts out I thought she was about to go on a feminist rant. The pure KJV word of God - not written by men *cough*.

 

[salex]

Wow, Ken hit all his standard points.

And got weirder and weirder as he went along--probably as the wine bottle(s) got emptier and emptier.

My thought really was a quote from Mr. Bojangles

"He drinks a bit...."

I like it that someone named Dave is not accepting Ken's floods of bullshit as gospel....