Jill & Jessa Special, Sunday, December 27

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, Mrsaztx said:

Hell, I can't remember how old I am half the time, and I'm only 28. If you asked me the ages of my 2 siblings, parents, husband, etc I could come up with the right answer but it would take a minute and a few "wait, what month are we in?" I'm fairly impressed when that family can keep names straight, birthdays and ages are just bonus info. I'll rest my snark on that one

Yeah...birthdays I know my kids and my husbands, but only because he had the sense to be born on a major holiday so I would remember.

All these years of marriage I think once one of us remembered our anniversary within 2 weeks of the date.  I am so bad with the thst stuff.

people who remember birthdays are just showing off.  

[Whoosh]

Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Yeah...birthdays I know my kids and my husbands, but only because he had the sense to be born on a major holiday so I would remember.

All these years of marriage I think once one of us remembered our anniversary within 2 weeks of the date.  I am so bad with the thst stuff.

people who remember birthdays are just showing off.  

My mother had/has 2 pregnancies, 2 births and 2 adult children.  One of those children has a birthday 2 days away from hers.  She has only forgotten it once. Go Ma!

[InThePrayerCloset]

17 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

You mean Bob Smith IV?

yes... oops.... exactly. sorry, i was writing after midnight and buggered up my roman numerals! thank you

[JHeathen]

15 hours ago, Coy Koi said:

A few of my observations that I haven't seen covered:

I want to teach these uneducated, inarticulate fundies a new word: WHEN. Not "whenever". That adoptive mom said it too! She said their kid was about 9 months old "whenever" they started the adoption process. I'd never heard anyone other than the Duggars do this, but perhaps it runs rampant in their circle? It's bizarre. It could be added to the drinking game. As if we're not all drunk enough on their idiocy already.

It's a southernism.  They think it's cute.  I even hear people say it where I live in southeastern Virginia.  It makes me want to PUKE and rip my hair out at the same time.

[bella8050]

22 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Yes and if we can't come to an official consensus then who can?

Seriously though, I think most women even if they've suffered a loss like this tend to just go with how many living kids when they are casually discussing it.  At least that's been my experience, I could be wrong.  

For instance if I'd gone another week or so where it would have been classified a stillbirth I'd still say I had 3 kids if asked...because otherwise you have to recount that story to every casual passerby who small talks about kids and that's not something I could do.

I was folding clothes the other day and put an old ratty highschool sweatshirt in the wrong kid's laundry stack and am still hearing about it because there was a year on the shirt and I couldn't for the life of me remember what year any of them graduated and I only have 3 of them.

I had to count back from the youngest.  OMG I am turning into Michelle Duggar.

If I start sporting a crunchy mullet I hope someone stages an intervention.

First I am sorry for you loss. Second, I agree I don't think Jessa's mind would automatically go to adding Jubilee in there, because everyone knows they have 19 living kids, so to add in Jubliee at that moment would have brought a sad note to what was meant to be a lighthearted joke.

With Michelle forgetting Jessa's age, I'm an only child and my mom has asked me more than once in my life how old I was or was going to be at my next birthday. I even forget my own age sometimes. Every January I start thinking about how old I'm going to be turning that year, my birthday is in July, and by March I usually start thinking of myself as the age I'm going to be. Which then by May when I think of my birthday I end up tacking on another year to the age I've messed myself into believing I'm going to be. If that makes any sense.

[Ramen Amen]

4 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I am so glad this thread drift seems calm and curious. I like this. BTW, here in Alabama we call a ravine a holler, dinner means lunch, and supper is the evening meal.

Oh, and college football is like a religion. ROLL TIDE!!!!

I'm in North Alabama --- straight up fundyland. And Roll tide!

[JHeathen]

9 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

@Buzzard I thought I saw that too, glad you caught it in your recap. The ring in the 3rd episode is a lot smaller than the one in the 2nd episode. I wonder why....

HA!  I noticed that, too  They really did a ZOOOM in on her big ring in the second episode and I was wondering ...why did they just focus on that? 

[NotAnIncubator]

I just rewatched the last 10 minutes again and Jessa and Ben remind me of watching 16 and pregnant like.. 'bitch, how you gonna raise a kid. You haven't graduated high school and your boyfriend mows lawns.'

[nomoxian]

46 minutes ago, bella8050 said:

I even forget my own age sometimes. Every January I start thinking about how old I'm going to be turning that year, my birthday is in July, and by March I usually start thinking of myself as the age I'm going to be. Which then by May when I think of my birthday I end up tacking on another year to the age I've messed myself into believing I'm going to be. If that makes any sense.

When I was younger I never thought I could forget how old I am, but it's happened more than once!

At least if I know how old I am, it makes it easy for me to remember how old my mother (20 years older) and brother (20 years younger) are.

[InThePrayerCloset]

2 hours ago, Piano gal said:

I'm in North Alabama --- straight up fundyland. And Roll tide!

Roll tide Roll!! 

wow... Jill's comments at the "orphanage" that Jessa and ben would take "this one and this one and that one..." makes me cringe! Just like shopping... 

[Coy Koi]

I can't exactly explain why, but it made me sad when they said the one little girl (Jennifer? I'm not as good at keeping all the Duggars straight as some of you are) got to be the first to find out the baby's "gender" and tell the rest of them, since she had been Jessa's buddy. It just kind of seemed like,"Hey kid, your erstwhile mommy is having a real kid now, but as a consolation prize, you get to hear about it first." I may not be making much sense, but it just made me feel bad for the little girl, even though it was supposed to be a happy, fun thing.

[sophie10130]

3 hours ago, JHeathen said:

It's a southernism.  They think it's cute.  I even hear people say it where I live in southeastern Virginia.  It makes me want to PUKE and rip my hair out at the same time.

it's a habit. no one does it on purpose because it's "cute"

i'm from southern illinois and say it and didn't realize it was a thing until I got to college when someone pointed it out. i also call a bath a tub unless i'm literally lighting candles and drinking wine. then it's a bath. any other time it's "i'm gonna take a tub" or "i need to give the dog a tub." I also ask where someone is at and where they're going to. it's just a thing. would I write it in an essay? No. Have I revised it out of an essay? Yes.

we're getting into grammar hounding, which is problematic in a few different ways. how someone talks isn't indicative of their intellect, just their perceived intellect, which is just making baseless assumptions. these people are from arkansas and are talking in a conversational manner with other people from the same region. they aren't giving a TED talk to CEOs and COOs and CFOs. 

[Mercer]

10 hours ago, Handmaiden of Dog said:

I watched the special last night and there was a moment in one of Jill's talking heads when she very clearly says, (paraphrasing here) "When we go to our mission in a remote location, I will be able to do some work as a midwife.  Not delivering babies probably because of Izzy, but giving advice." So she is NOT planning on doing any actual work, just getting her hands on some bellies, using her "doppler", and giving out nutritional information.

I'm glad Jill won't be delivering any babies. I think her pride, overconfidence in her abilities, and tendency to cut corners would eventually have harmed or killed a mother or a baby. Everyone is safer if the actual deliveries are out of Jill's very questionable hands.

That said, her reasoning behind it is bizarre. The baby was a known quantity when they moved to Guatemala. Jill has stated an intention to have at least one more child before they leave. If she is unable to do any sort of other work while caring for a small child... is Jill planning to literally do nothing besides consume donor-provided resources while on this "mission"? Is she really arrogant enough to think that's a good use of "mission" funds?

Like I said, it's really better that Jill is not planning on being the primary birth attendant. She could still find some way of actually being helpful, though. (For example, assisting a more experienced midwife.) It's pretty ridiculous that she thinks she should be paid to exist in Guatemala and never be expected to do anything.

[Coy Koi]

22 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

how someone talks isn't indicative of their intellect, just their perceived intellect, which is just making baseless assumptions.

How someone talks is far from being a perfect indicator of their intellect, but it's weird to act like it means absolutely nothing.

[sophie10130]

26 minutes ago, Coy Koi said:

How someone talks is far from being a perfect indicator of their intellect, but it's weird to act like it means absolutely nothing.

Not really. What comes to my mind is a Modern Family quote, and it's not perfect because it's about an English as a second language learner as a opposed to a native speaker, but Gloria bungles up an English idiom and her family makes fun of her and she remarks "Do you know how smart I am in Spanish?"

I have these habits of speaking "incorrectly" in daily conversation, but when I write an essay or stand up to give a speech or am in a position where I need to, I try my best to remember everything I learned from my grammar teacher who was from the Appalachian Hills in West Virginia. Yes, she was a grammar teacher from West Virginia and she used phrases like "I reckon" and "Fixin to" and "Momma's gotta pie to bake tomorra" and probably "whenever" and yet, when she needed to she could pull out her flawless grammar to teach us correctly. She's probably waking up cringing at my horrendous comma use in that last paragraph.

The whole "Proper English" thing is just not something I fuck with. It's elitist and not a good indication in any direction of someone's intelligence. Unless I'm editing someone's paper, I won't correct their grammar. Unless I'm handing a paper to someone to be edited, I don't want anyone correcting my grammar.

I'd rather not be a grammar hound on these people, I'd rather talk about their phraseology like "everything we've walked through" and "purposing toward" and "loving on" and yadda yadda. 

 

ETA: http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/05/grammar-snobbery/ is a good article that is framed around the activist movements, but still outlines what I was trying to say better than I could and was the first article I found before I go to bed.

[Whoosh]

26 minutes ago, Coy Koi said:

How someone talks is far from being a perfect indicator of their intellect, but it's weird to act like it means absolutely nothing.

It may seem weird to think about, but dialects really are not an indicator of intellect or competence.  Here is an interesting (although older) write up on the topic from PBS.  I am copying two paragraphs that somewhat summarize things.

"Linguists know that language variety does not correlate with intelligence or competence, so Dr. Cramden could well be one of the best brain surgeons in town. Nevertheless, popular associations of certain varieties of English with professional and intellectual competence run so deep that Dr. Cramden will not get to crack many crania unless he learns to sound very different.

A primary linguistic myth, one nearly universally attached to minorities, rural people and the less well educated, extends in the United States even to well-educated speakers of some regional varieties. That myth, of course, is that some varieties of a language are not as good as others."

http://www.pbs.org/speak/speech/prejudice/attitudes/

[ladyaudley]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said: I'll snark on Michelle all day long, but not for this.

I lost a baby between 19 and 20 weeks and while I refer to it as a late miscarriage it was one of the most traumatic events of my life.  It's my understanding she lost Jubilee at the same stage, and 20 weeks up they classify it as a still birth.  For medical purposes there has to be a cut off I guess, but a few days either way doesn't make a difference if it was your baby.  She can define that however she wants.

At 19-20 weeks the hospitals ask you about remains and if you're going to have a burial - it's treated very differently by medical personnel than earlier miscarriages - as devestating as they can be.

Jubilee wasn't a live birth but she was definitely a birth.  

 

Not that it matters much either way to someone who has lost a pregnancy, but Michelle was about 16 weeks along.  She kept adding weeks until she got to 20. 

 

In Germany it's determined by weight, not weeks: 500g is the cutoff. Above that it's a stillbirth, below a miscarriage and considered "medical waste", so people weren't getting to do funerals etc. I read a devastating article recently about it.

[Coy Koi]

I certainly agree on the language thing to a point. I don't use perfect English, nor do I care to. For God's sake, I say "hella", and I'm an adult. Still, though, I can't go quite so far as to say that the way someone speaks means absolutely nothing. It's one factor of many. It would be foolish to form a conclusion about someone based solely on their manner of speaking. I don't think it's bad, or even avoidable, to let it be one factor though. Just because some judgments about language are elitist or racist or whatever (and I absolutely agree that some are) doesn't mean they all are.

[missegeno]

Fwiw, bags were bags and not sacks in my part of Ohio. And I never considered soda to be a NY/NJ thing. It's been the primary term most places I've been (including regions of New England, up and down the west coast, and in the southwest).

I have no snark for ending a sentence with "at" or saying "whenever." Like others have said, they don't belong in a formal paper or presentation, but they have their place as established and widely used speech patterns.

Yet I must say, Jill is being nothing but a waste of space down there. Does she realize how many of her donors were probably back at work full time within 2-3 weeks of delivering a baby? And she thinks it's reasonable to pull back on her language aspects as well as her hands-on involvement just because she has one baby who is not even a newborn anymore. Her spanish is terrible. She spends her whole time at Manos Abiertas doing the same blank nod and smile that I do when I don't understand somebody's spanish but don't care to make a thing of it. And I'm nowhere near fluent but I understood the Spanish being spoken while she did the blank face nod. For all the experience she's supposedly had with the language over the years, she should do far better than me.

[Peas n carrots]

15 hours ago, Coy Koi said: A few of my observations that I haven't seen covered:

I want to teach these uneducated, inarticulate fundies a new word: WHEN. Not "whenever". That adoptive mom said it too! She said their kid was about 9 months old "whenever" they started the adoption process. I'd never heard anyone other than the Duggars do this, but perhaps it runs rampant in their circle? It's bizarre. It could be added to the drinking game. As if we're not all drunk enough on their idiocy already.

It's a southernism.  They think it's cute.  I even hear people say it where I live in southeastern Virginia.  It makes me want to PUKE and rip my hair out at the same time.

Dramatic much?

Back to topic - there is one quote I think perfectly describes Jessa and Jill - they don't know what they don't know. Whether it is the challenges that come with adopting a child - much less one from a foreign country or being a midwife in another country/culture they are so ignorant they have no perspective on their ignorance. That is a scary fact for any child adopted or delivered by these two twits.

[isarhenne]

the whole adoption storyline made me angry. First they were surprised that the kid didn't speak English when it was born on a different CONTINENT! Then Ben and Jessa sitting there assuming to be able to adopt several children. Most adoption agencies have age limits, meaning e.g. that you can only adopt if you are at least 30 years old, and not a teenager like Ben! Here, you have to be 27 old and heterosexually married. Idk, it just makes me so angry.

[HarleyQuinn]

Someone had a video clip of Surgeon's birth on IG, when the NotReallyMidwife turned him over, blood literally was pouring off him. Holy crap. 

[Mrsaztx]

1 hour ago, isarhenne said:

the whole adoption storyline made me angry. First they were surprised that the kid didn't speak English when it was born on a different CONTINENT! Then Ben and Jessa sitting there assuming to be able to adopt several children. Most adoption agencies have age limits, meaning e.g. that you can only adopt if you are at least 30 years old, and not a teenager like Ben! Here, you have to be 27 old and heterosexually married. Idk, it just makes me so angry.

Its crazy for me to consider it, but just think of how this whole learning-of-adoption process would go if they do actually live with the media lock downs they claim. There would be no google search because that would lead them smack into a den of sin where people are discussing accidental pregnancies and abortion, the next adoption info source I think of is Catholic Social Services and heaven knows that's out. An OBGYN office may have some pamphlets but they seem unlikely to go there, so really their only resource would be their bone-headed fundie friends. And I can't help but think the boneheaded friends route would be very likely to end in some very sketchy dealings with baby traffickers because it's such a spur of the moment nonsense decision for them. Sort of like people buying a puppy from the store in the mall 

[Drala]

13 hours ago, Mrsaztx said:

Quick question: does anyone else fee like Jill having a Doppler is kind of like giving a kid who wants to be a doctor a *real working stethescope!*? By itself is a Doppler good for much of anything? Maybe I'm just cynical because her expertise in delivering a child seems to be on par with anyone here delivering an accidental litter of kittens, but it just seems like she shows up with her doctor toys and wants to play grownup. And the idea of someone from Arkansas, land of fried pig's ears and tater tots, telling these people who are living on fresh fruit, vegetables, and legumes that they grow, how to eat is just so so backward. You people have pimento cheese, have a seat, please

Something that makes me sad about Jill is that she clearly wants to be some sort of health care professional.  Maybe her experience abroad with trained helping professionals will inspire her to get an education.  Of course, this pre-supposes she isn't as fertile as her mother.  .  

[Dollypeeps]

Is it Jordyn that gets the phone to say it's a boy. Doesn't she look tired in the clip. I hope they didn't keep her awake for the birth of Spud as little kids need their sleep in my opinion.