Titus2's Steve Maxwell: Seriously Anti-Fun

[kpmom]

Good work blessalessi!  So Steve wasn't really going to get fired because of his "Stand for Jesus".  He was just part of a downsizing of several hundred other employees.  He really made it sound like he butted heads because of his beliefs.  What a liar.

A lot of us here at FJ thought they offered to lay him or off or move to another job to avoid a lawsuit.  But, like you said, his "stand" probably wasn't even on their radar.  They had much bigger issues.

[blessalessi]

Well, from Steve's perspective, he quite probably did make a stand on something.  I have worked for a couple of organizations that have downsized or merged, and it seems common that senior managers will invite ideas or hold staff consultations before the formal HR wheels start turning.

It seems within the bounds of possibility  that someone like Steve would march into the company president's office to preach Christ crucified and suggest job cuts in the areas where morality is being compromised by mixed-sex business lunches. It takes all sorts! 

Very rarely are individual employees given very much consideration, unless it is in the company interest. And when decisions are made, redundancy is swift and brutal, in my experience.  A meeting with HR followed by a buffet lunch and leaving card the same day, is often standard.   So the date Steve gives for being brought home by the Lord lines up well with the timing of the decision to move Wilcox Electric to a new location.

[blessalessi]

Something else interesting is that the Maxwells moved to Kansas in 1990 from Washington State where Steve had worked for Boeing.  In 1989, Boeing had a 48 day long workers strike. As a militant right-wing Christian, a workers' strike must have been very hard to handle.

And mixed in with that, at some point in his career, Steve has admitted that he gave false answers on a personality test in order to get a well-paid promotion to a sales position -which was a disaster because he was no good at the job.

Steve seems to have a very rigid personality, and a very dim view of human nature, along with an inability to trust or see good in others.  He doesn't get on with people for very long before he needs to move on, and on top of that he has been in several work situations that have been challenging for him. Teri has been the overtly "sick" member of the family, but I'd say Steve's personality is the major underlying cause of her problems.

[thebestusername]

Wow.. just wow. I believe that you should learn to have fun whatever you're doing. If you arent enjoying it in some way what's the point of doing it. Sure taxes and bills aren't fun but even with them they are a means to an end. I had several awesome teacher's who agreed with me and let me be pretty creative in classes. I am so thankful to all the teacher's and professor's who put in the extra time and work to actually manage to get some useful information into the steelheaded minds of students

[blessalessi]

It was the Washington job that he got by lying on the test.

Over fifteen years ago, I took a test to qualify for a sales position. It was a personality profiler, and if my profile matched the standard, I could transfer to a potentially lucrative sales position in the company. If my personality wasn’t similar to the top sales performers they evaluated, then I would stay in my present job. I passed the test—not because I was similar to the other salesmen, but because I knew how they would answer. Did I lie or cheat on the test? Of course not! Well, at least not according to my reasoning.

I moved my family away from friends, a wonderful church, and across the country from Florida to Washington.

Which all coincided with Teri's depression, the decision to homeschool, and the vasectomy reversal. 

The "bad decision" Steve should have reversed was probably the job move, not the vasectomy!

[Hane]

Good work blessalessi!  So Steve wasn't really going to get fired because of his "Stand for Jesus".  He was just part of a downsizing of several hundred other employees.  He really made it sound like he butted heads because of his beliefs.  What a liar.

A lot of us here at FJ thought they offered to lay him or off or move to another job to avoid a lawsuit.  But, like you said, his "stand" probably wasn't even on their radar.  They had much bigger issues.

You mean, my hope of taking care of my baby grandson for a while after my daughter returned to work DIDN'T move The Lord to cause a layoff in the AT&T HR department in 2007?

[anjulibai]

Willingly manipulating a personality test like that is so sociopathic. That man is deeply disturbed. 

[nokidsmom]

He will call it God's will and move on with his life. Except, I think he spends many hours figuring out just how much rope to give John. It seems that John has a tiny little spark of something which he refuses to let Steve extinguish. There are probably 'god told me' showdowns over every little thing.

"God said you should stay in the bosom of your family".

"Well he told me to get my business up and running because this family needs some money coming in."

Poor Steve is in agony with indecision. If the kid leaves the house he might do something not Steve approved. Like talk to an unrelated jeans wearing female or stay up after 9 pm. You know, the kind of things that lead an unchaperoned boy straight to hell.  On the other hand; money.

If Steve delivers an ultimatum then it is all over. A banished John will kill his brand dead.  Personally I think Steve would LOVE to pull that boy back into line, but he isn't a total idiot. So his only choice really is to mention nothing specific, grit his teeth and pray HARD that god sends a little helpmeet toot-sweet. Get that boy tied down with a few blessings, that'll keep him around. 

Agree that Steveovah's greatest fear is John or any of his kids doing something that is not OK with Steveovah and the list of those "unapproved things" is very long indeed.  I think he seriously loses sleep over it.    He's put himself in a position where he needs the money because he got called home, his daughters are still at home, the married sons and their families have not separated emotionally and financially, and the family business is not thriving.   Steveovah is a bind, for sure.  Of  his own making.

[nokidsmom]

Well, from Steve's perspective, he quite probably did make a stand on something.  I have worked for a couple of organizations that have downsized or merged, and it seems common that senior managers will invite ideas or hold staff consultations before the formal HR wheels start turning.

It seems within the bounds of possibility  that someone like Steve would march into the company president's office to preach Christ crucified and suggest job cuts in the areas where morality is being compromised by mixed-sex business lunches. It takes all sorts! 

Very rarely are individual employees given very much consideration, unless it is in the company interest. And when decisions are made, redundancy is swift and brutal, in my experience.  A meeting with HR followed by a buffet lunch and leaving card the same day, is often standard.   So the date Steve gives for being brought home by the Lord lines up well with the timing of the decision to move Wilcox Electric to a new location.

Good find, blessalessi.  Knowing that there was a downsizing / merger at Steveovah's company around the time that he was called "home" does change things a bit.   I always thought Steve was let go because of issues specifically related to him, but this suggests to me that he actually volunteered for layoff.  I have seen people do this during downsizings and mergers, one of my former bosses did this due to personal issues.  It's up to management to accommodate this, so it isn't always granted.  But employees can continue to push for it and do things to force management's hand in their favor, I have also witnessed this personally as well.   Perhaps Steveovah made enough of a nuisance of himself that they finally agreed with him.

 

[blessalessi]

He quite possibly "took a stand" each time he has moved church and nursing home, but it seems likely that others were relieved to let hm go.

The danger now is that he has so little outside contact that the people he "takes a stand" against are most likely to be family members.

Nathan and John are conspicuously absent from the new family business headed by the golden reversal child Joseph. And a major season of fasting has been undertaken.

Seriously challenging times ahead, I would imagine.

[nokidsmom]

He quite possibly "took a stand" each time he has moved church and nursing home, but it seems likely that others were relieved to let hm go.

The danger now is that he has so little outside contact that the people he "takes a stand" against are most likely to be family members.

Nathan and John are conspicuously absent from the new family business headed by the golden reversal child Joseph. And a major season of fasting has been undertaken.

Seriously challenging times ahead, I would imagine.

Agreed, whenever he makes a change in something, it's "taking a stand".   With whomever is in his world and it's become very narrow now.   Not a good thing.

[CyborgKin]

Youth Groups are bad according to Steve...  Can someone enlighten me?

Maybe he's seen Philip Leclerc's movie, Divided.

[CyborgKin]

Even if Steveovah is wondering why his children haven't turned out the way he hoped, one thing is that he will not understand that it was his crazy decisions.  He will never take responsibility for it.  He might wonder why but never seriously look in the mirror to see the answer.

He probably convinces himself that they've turned out exactly how he wants.  Or worse, maybe they have!

[blessalessi]

Agreed, whenever he makes a change in something, it's "taking a stand".   With whomever is in his world and it's become very narrow now.   Not a good thing.

He doesn't seem to be able to see anything through for very long.  He takes on huge projects like re-furbishing Uriah, or building his own house, and he takes jobs that involve moving from one side of the USA to the other, but each time, either he isn't satisfied by the work, or he simply isn't very good at keeping anything going long-term.  The one thing they do really well together is house renovations, but Steve seems to see himself as being above manual labour as a professional job.

They have that massive house now, with enough room on the drive to park a bus, and enough room in the basement to run a business, but they are all rattling around taking photos of each other and planning their next planning meeting.

[anjulibai]

Do you all really think he thinks his children haven't turned out the way he'd hoped? 

I mean, with the exception John, none of his children have ever disobeyed Steve's wishes or even moved far away. Even John hasn't strayed that far - the most you can say is he's trying some things Steve would not have allowed when they children were minors. I do believe John is the likeliest to escape, and recent weeklong fast is probably in no small part due to that out of state conference, but John is still firmly enmeshed with the family. Even the daughters not being married don't mean anything to me, as I doubt he seriously ever wanted them to marry. 

I'm sure the failing businesses are upsetting and confusing Steve, but I imagine, like every prosperity gospel fundie faced with hardship, he believes he and his children are simply being tested. 

No, I think he sees his children as absolutely perfect and worthy of emulation by everyone not a Maxwell. His leadership skills are perfect, his knowledge of God is perfect, he's raised them the only perfect, godly way, and they live exactly as he wishes them to live. 

[FunFunFundie]

Do you all really think he thinks his children haven't turned out the way he'd hoped? 

I mean, with the exception John, none of his children have ever disobeyed Steve's wishes or even moved far away. Even John hasn't strayed that far - the most you can say is he's trying some things Steve would not have allowed when they children were minors. I do believe John is the likeliest to escape, and recent weeklong fast is probably in no small part due to that out of state conference, but John is still firmly enmeshed with the family. Even the daughters not being married don't mean anything to me, as I doubt he seriously ever wanted them to marry. 

I'm sure the failing businesses are upsetting and confusing Steve, but I imagine, like every prosperity gospel fundie faced with hardship, he believes he and his children are simply being tested. 

No, I think he sees his children as absolutely perfect and worthy of emulation by everyone not a Maxwell. His leadership skills are perfect, his knowledge of God is perfect, he's raised them the only perfect, godly way, and they live exactly as he wishes them to live. 

I think that in his heart of hearts, he is probably confused as to why they are all not thriving.  Sarah should be married with 7-10 kids by now.  The boys should all be making money hand over fist and supporting their families by their self-education, and laughing at all those people who have mortgages and school loans.  The younger girls should be taking over the Moodys, and his/Teri's/Sarah's books should be bestsellers.

But to admit that it's not working out like it should would be to admit that every.single.thing he has ever said has been wrong.  That it was wrong (and abusive!) to not let the children associate with other people.  That forcing Teri to homeschool when she wasn't up for it was wrong.  That having 8 children was not a good idea.  That quitting his job because Jesus! and Family! was a bad idea.

So he has to say that it's all exactly like he hoped, and that anything that is off is just, like you said, God testing them.  But I think deep down, he has to know that this experiment on his children was wrong.  Part of the marketing of Keeping Our Children's Hearts is that their adult children are well-developed, interesting, outgoing, social people.  He has always said that goal #1 was that they don't rebel, but he needs his children to succeed in regular societal terms in order for his brand not to fail, and if his brand fails, his everything fails.  

I guess my point is - I think that he probably still thinks people look up to them and that they are perfect, but he *must* know that Sarah is affecting his brand terribly, and if his sons don't get their business together, they will also affect his brand terribly.  Even Erika Shupe said something like, "we know God's just waiting to give Sarah the right man! wink." or whatever.  His followers aren't hoping that their kids will end up like his unless their kids end up with families and able to support themselves.  

[blessalessi]

He definitely seems more proud of some children than others. I listened to a Kevin Swanson interview with Steve recently and just skimmed a bit of it again.

 He spoke at length about how Joseph can earn $100 an hour, but John was only mentioned in passing as having been Joe's partner in the previous construction business. Nathan was mentioned a lot in connection with 1 ton ramp which had just then been launched. Chris was mentioned vaguely as an all-rounder but interestingly the wedding photography was described as a sideline (though Chris identifies mainly as a photographer).

Something else interesting was that he told a different story in the interview than on the blog about the New Year prayer and wailing tradition.  On the blog he said they used to play board games previously.  On the radio he said that after they got rid of Tv they kept a tradition of watching a movie on New Years Eve. That one year Steve could not find a movie he deemed suitable and so God told him to have an extended time of prayer instead.  So that's another thing where he "took a stand" and removed yet another pleasure from the adult family lives. He sounded like a real tv evangelist talking about how he "had them crying for their sin and praying for their neighbours".

It was interesting that he referred to "the children" repeatedly and acknowledged that he "takes the children" on ministry trips because they are his "credentials" and the "fruit" of his work.

I think Steve is an interesting mix of smug and self-loathing.  He is clearly the best Christian there can be compared to others, but at the same time I think he lives in genuine fear for his family's salvation. He definitely does not rate his children equally, Joseph is favoured highly compared to the others, I think. John must be a massive worry because he does his own thing and is known for his love of fun and all that is unholy.

[anjulibai]

I think that in his heart of hearts, he is probably confused as to why they are all not thriving.  Sarah should be married with 7-10 kids by now.  The boys should all be making money hand over fist and supporting their families by their self-education, and laughing at all those people who have mortgages and school loans.  The younger girls should be taking over the Moodys, and his/Teri's/Sarah's books should be bestsellers.
But to admit that it's not working out like it should would be to admit that every.single.thing he has ever said has been wrong.  That it was wrong (and abusive!) to not let the children associate with other people.  That forcing Teri to homeschool when she wasn't up for it was wrong.  That having 8 children was not a good idea.  That quitting his job because Jesus! and Family! was a bad idea.

So he has to say that it's all exactly like he hoped, and that anything that is off is just, like you said, God testing them.  But I think deep down, he has to know that this experiment on his children was wrong.  Part of the marketing of Keeping Our Children's Hearts is that their adult children are well-developed, interesting, outgoing, social people.  He has always said that goal #1 was that they don't rebel, but he needs his children to succeed in regular societal terms in order for his brand not to fail, and if his brand fails, his everything fails.  

I guess my point is - I think that he probably still thinks people look up to them and that they are perfect, but he *must* know that Sarah is affecting his brand terribly, and if his sons don't get their business together, they will also affect his brand terribly.  Even Erika Shupe said something like, "we know God's just waiting to give Sarah the right man! wink." or whatever.  His followers aren't hoping that their kids will end up like his unless their kids end up with families and able to support themselves.  

You've got a lot of good points and it makes sense. Steve is mass of contradictions. I'm sure his ego pulls him this way and that sometimes. 

He definitely seems more proud of some children than others. I listened to a Kevin Swanson interview with Steve recently and just skimmed a bit of it again.

 He spoke at length about how Joseph can earn $100 an hour, but John was only mentioned in passing as having been Joe's partner in the previous construction business. Nathan was mentioned a lot in connection with 1 ton ramp which had just then been launched. Chris was mentioned vaguely as an all-rounder but interestingly the wedding photography was described as a sideline (though Chris identifies mainly as a photographer).

Something else interesting was that he told a different story in the interview than on the blog about the New Year prayer and wailing tradition.  On the blog he said they used to play board games previously.  On the radio he said that after they got rid of Tv they kept a tradition of watching a movie on New Years Eve. That one year Steve could not find a movie he deemed suitable and so God told him to have an extended time of prayer instead.  So that's another thing where he "took a stand" and removed yet another pleasure from the adult family lives. He sounded like a real tv evangelist talking about how he "had them crying for their sin and praying for their neighbours".

It was interesting that he referred to "the children" repeatedly and acknowledged that he "takes the children" on ministry trips because they are his "credentials" and the "fruit" of his work.

I think Steve is an interesting mix of smug and self-loathing.  He is clearly the best Christian there can be compared to others, but at the same time I think he lives in genuine fear for his family's salvation. He definitely does not rate his children equally, Joseph is favoured highly compared to the others, I think. John must be a massive worry because he does his own thing and is known for his love of fun and all that is unholy.

Where can I find this conversation? I'd love to listen to in (if I can ever find the time!)

I do think it definitely comes through the blog that Steve has favorites. Joseph definitely always so. The grandsons over the granddaughters. It's sad. 

[FunFunFundie]

Where can I find this conversation? I'd love to listen to in (if I can ever find the time!)

Ha!  I was just trying to google the same thing.

[blessalessi]

Sorry, I should have linked.   

https://generationswithvision.com/broadcast/preparing-sons-to-provide-for-their-households/ This is before the Oct 2014 Family Economics Conference.

There is also a 2007 programme with a similar title, but I've not listened yet. 

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11607102537

[anjulibai]

Cool, thanks!

[FunFunFundie]

I'm listening to it now and cannot believe (like really cannot believe) that this kind of thing doesn't make Steve sweat.  The whole point of the sermon is "kids these days can't get out on their own before they are 30."  And yeah, his sons have their own homes, but his daughters are going nowhere fast, and his sons are also not able to have jobs outside of the family.  

He's got to be sweating.  His brand is going to really suffer the more his kids do not become well-rounded, self-sufficient adults.

[blessalessi]

He mentioned Sarah so briefly, it was barely noticeable.  "Sarah, she works in our ministry"  No mention of her books or the fact that she obviously writes the content for all the websites. 

I have just listened to a clip from the 2007 version where he is even more emphatic in saying that he is training the boys to be entrepreneurial because the closer a Christian is to Jesus, the harder it is to work for someone else.  Which fits well with Steve's inability to hold down a job but pretty much excludes most of the mainstream professions and military service, or even missionary service.

[blessalessi]

It's that Serious time of the week!

Don't get too excited.  This one is dull and rambling.  We'll blame the fast, shall we?

NOT JUST A GOOD IDEA
This was posted on November 24, 2015 by Steve Maxwell.
I have watched my married sons and their wives work patiently with their children to teach them to be grateful. It is amazing what persistence it takes to make progress against the selfishness of the flesh, and oh how delightful it is to hear sweet little “Thank yous.” First we teach a child to be grateful to those around him who bless him. Then he needs to learn to thank God, Who is the giver of all good gifts, and Who cannot be seen.

We all enjoy being around grateful people, but those who are ungrateful tend to weigh us down. Are we dads setting the example for gratitude in the family? Are we looking for things others in the home do so we can share our gratefulness with them? It is one thing to say “thank you” and quite another to express why we are grateful for what they did.

Who would have thought how absolutely foundational being thankful can be even to a person’s eternity? “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful.” (Romans 1:21)

Steve

 

[BullyJBG]

The one thing Steve got right is, yes, we the older generation need to set an example in our teaching/training. That we can't expect them to be grateful for everything when they are being criticized all the time. Or even most of the time. And yes, being around someone who continuously complains, yeah, it's contagious. I gotta watch myself too; that a response to something isn't just a regurgitation of venting or whatever.

  Good start, Steve. Now go have some food, please and thank you.