Joshley Madison Pt 7: O Smuggar Where Art Thou?

[LilahBelle]

To all on the live chat - that was just brilliant! Bravo! :clap:

I have not been so entertained in a long time.

Bet there won't be a live chat next week.

[ADoyle90815]

To all on the live chat - that was just brilliant! Bravo! :clap:

I have not been so entertained in a long time.

Bet there won't be a live chat next week.

Same here, and it's a good thing I learned not to drink anything while reading this board for things like this.

[Jentacular]

I might be imagining this, but it looks like at about 27:20, the congregation starts looking toward the right. And the camera zooms in a bit about 25-30 seconds later. Wonder if Joshley was escorted in after everyone had settled and they were ensuring he was out of the camera parameters?

Edited to correct time stamp

[Jentacular]

There's a younger woman with brown hair and wearing white seated in the center section a couple rows from the back. She didn't look away for a lonnnng time. :lol:

[enigmata]

Allow me to briefly go off the rails -- this is what I always think of when I am "dying" -- there is nothing better than the Graham Norton Show for the mismatched people it brings together...

[bBvideo 560,340:2qtfjutg]

[/bBvideo]

Love Graham Norton - my 'claim to fame' is that I know his sister and her family. His nephew is so like him. Anyway......back on topic.

[Ave Maria]

I couldn't handle watching it -- so much droning on, and on, and on.

But what's behind that white curtain behind the podium? I can't help but think it must be some kind of torture chamber or something...

[Themiscyran]

I couldn't handle watching it -- so much droning on, and on, and on.

But what's behind that white curtain behind the podium? I can't help but think it must be some kind of torture chamber or something...

A baptistry, maybe?

[Ave Maria]

A baptistry, maybe?

It's like a weird viewing window from an interrogation room or something -- I don't know. It seems like a weird place for a baptistery. (Aren't those usually in the front of the church/chapel or off to the side somewhere? Or else they just put a font on the main altar.)

Then again, I don't have any experience with evangelical baptisms. (Would someone in this program even be in need of baptism? Meaning, wouldn't they already be Christians coming into it?)

[Themiscyran]

It's like a weird viewing window from an interrogation room or something -- I don't know. It seems like a weird place for a baptistery. (Aren't those usually in the front of the church/chapel or off to the side somewhere? Or else they just put a font on the main altar.)

Then again, I don't have any experience with evangelical baptisms. (Would someone in this program even be in need of baptism? Meaning, wouldn't they already be Christians coming into it?)

Some evangelical protestants will re-baptize people, esp if they were baptized as infants. Many of them don't regard infant Baptism as legit. It's not like RC or Episcopal or similar churches where you're baptized once and that's it, and it doesn't matter what denomination you were baptized into. I know the IFB says you need to be re-baptized if you were baptized as an infant. Some baptists call infant baptism "alien baptism," which always sounds a little X-Filesish to me, lol. The IFB also reject sprinkling as unBiblical, so it has to be full-immersion (thus a permanent baptistry is very handy b/c you need a pretty big pool.)

I don't see for sure that North Love is IFB, but even my alma mater's liberal American Baptist church building has a baptistry, and the Southern Baptists where I live now do re-Baptism for "aliens". I think those are pretty common.

I can't tell if that's a baptistry, though; you're right it looks like one of those weird interrogation windows. Maybe a cry room instead?

(edited for typos and clarity)

[blessalessi]

I've seen a baptistry behind a window discussed somewhere on FJ before. It was on a thread where some adoptive children were being baptised, I think.

Sorry, not a very useful contribution, all I remember is seeing a blog photo with the entire family in a pool behind a window pane, and through that the church were looking on.

[Themiscyran]

I've seen a baptistry behind a window discussed somewhere on FJ before. It was on a thread where some adoptive children were being baptised, I think.

Sorry, not a very useful contribution, all I remember is seeing a blog photo with the entire family in a pool behind a window pane, and through that the church were looking on.

I've seen them like that too. I'd be surprised if this church didn't have a baptistry somewhere, I just can't tell from the video if that's what it is. Probably more likely than a torture room, lol. From what we saw last night, the main worship space is the torture room! :lol: (And I don't just mean the guy getting tied up with ropes, lol!) :wink-kitty:

[blessalessi]

little-giant.com/church-products/fiberglass-baptistries/versatile-model-a-3-baptistry.html

I'm do far beyond redemption, I actually googled and found a baptistry supplier that confirms that viewing windows are available. Maybe the same suppliers also make torture rooms on the side. :lol:

[blessalessi]

Then again, I don't have any experience with evangelical baptisms. (Would someone in this program even be in need of baptism? Meaning, wouldn't they already be Christians coming into it?)

No True Christian would become an addict!

I absolutely can see altar calls and baptisms coming out of this kind of programme. It would be a good source of income too, to pass the collection plate around a service packed with visiting family members.

[Themiscyran]

No True Christian would become an addict!

I absolutely can see altar calls and baptisms coming out of this kind of programme. It would be a good source of income too, to pass the collection plate around a service packed with visiting family members.

Obviously Josh's baptism was the proper Biblical kind, right? Because I so don't want to see his smarmy pasty ass getting dunked for a re-do. His inevitable self-congratulatory redemption testimony is going to be bad enough. Please God, grant us a small mercy, please and thank you, Amen.

[Jessa's Feet]

I've done a lot of church hopping growing up in Texas and I've seen many different types of build outs for baptismal areas. We went churches with Pentecostal attributes or just straight up southern Baptist. (Even dabbled in a few Catholic services because ex-stepdad was Catholic but my mom put a stop to that eventually because she hated the Catholic Church)

But as for the baptismal area in the various southern Baptist/and or Pentecostal type churches I've seen it part of the huge room with nothing separating it, behind a partial plexi glass wall (just walk behind it), and I've indeed seen it in its own room with a viewing window. Like a chamber. Cut off from the congregation and viewed only by a window. Sometimes in the middle of the room but a lot of the times it's off to the side of the room since it's not a main attraction until it's being used. Then, when it is being used the preacher/minister will be mic'd on their collar and will be over the speaker system to the congregation viewing from the main room.

This is especially popular with the big ass evangelical Christian churches that like their services to be more like a show. To have a production quality to them. It gets the Jesus moving through the crowd faster, hands shoot up, and tongues starta rollin.

[Themiscyran]

This is especially popular with the big ass evangelical Christian churches that like their services to be more like a show. To have a production quality to them. It gets the Jesus moving through the crowd faster, hands shoot up, and tongues starta rollin.

Dear God [Addendum]: Please, no Joshie tongue rolling either. Imma offering up whatever you want to avoid that one. Fatted calf? I hear they're nice.

[Jessa's Feet]

On an unrelated note to the thread talk but to my previous comment. My comment made me think about the first time I was in church and heard someone next to me start speaking in tongues. It was this big sweaty bald dude. I was probably 10 at most. It honestly scared the shit out of me (figuratively......). No one explained to me what that meant and even if they did, um, it sounds scary when you hear it. His eyes were rolling back in his head. It was like being in a horror film.

*edited for typo. It's to early to function.

[holierthanyou]

On an unrelated note to the thread talk but to my previous comment. My comment made me think about the first time I was in church and heard someone next to me start speaking in tongues. It was this big sweaty bald dude. I was probably 10 at most. It honestly scared the shit out of me (figuratively......). No one explained to me what that meant and even if they did, um, it sounds scary when you hear it. His eyes were rolling back in his head. It was like being in a horror film.

*edited for typo. It's to early to function.

In my first year of college as I went to attend a fundy church with a friend (it was her home church), she nonchalantly whispered to me before entering to "oh and don't be worried about the speaking in tongues thing. it's no big deal, it's just that we're not allowed to get drunk with alcohol so if we want to let loose and act crazy we just kind of call it talking in tongues".

I found it bizarre because she just shrugged as if it was common knowledge and no big deal, but somehow she enjoyed and identified with the church herself. Just seemed a bizarre disconnect to me for an actual church member to say that aloud.

[Cleopatra7]

Obviously Josh's baptism was the proper Biblical kind, right? Because I so don't want to see his smarmy pasty ass getting dunked for a re-do. His inevitable self-congratulatory redemption testimony is going to be bad enough. Please God, grant us a small mercy, please and thank you, Amen.

I think Josh's "testimony" on the old J&A website was that he got "saved" at seven or eight. I don't remember the exact age, but he was a young child at the time. By then, JB and Michelle would have been eager participants in ATI and working on J'kid #5 or 6, and were probably expecting Josh to "accept Jesus into his heart" around this time as well. This refutes the leghumper claim that Josh's molestations somehow didn't count in the eyes of god, because he hadn't been "saved" yet, but by his own words, he was supposedly saved eight years before the abuse started. In any case, hopefully this means that we'll be spared a re-baptism from him, because he really would be insufferable.

[EmCatlyn]

I think Josh's "testimony" on the old J&A website was that he got "saved" at seven or eight. I don't remember the exact age, but he was a young child at the time. By then, JB and Michelle would have been eager participants in ATI and working on J'kid #5 or 6, and were probably expecting Josh to "accept Jesus into his heart" around this time as well. This refutes the leghumper claim that Josh's molestations somehow didn't count in the eyes of god, because he hadn't been "saved" yet, but by his own words, he was supposedly saved eight years before the abuse started. In any case, hopefully this means that we'll be spared a re-baptism from him, because he really would be insufferable.

The website is still there and the information that he was saved at age seven is there also. Interestingly, they didn't include how old Anna was when she was saved. Was the point that Josh "came to Jesus" earlier than most?

There is a section which sort of hints at Josh's impatience for knowing more about girls before it was right, but it is disguised behind an anecdote about the little girl and the suitcase that was too heavy. Apparently Jim Bob used it to indicate that sex is only for when you are ready. Trust JimBob to take an anecdote that is generally used to illustrate to children that God won't send them burdens (responsibilities) they can't handle as some lesson about waiting for sex! :roll:

I believe during the post-Joshgate 1 explanations of Josh's "fall and redemption" it was stated that he had wandered :roll: from Jesus but was successfully re-saved. Whether that involved re-baptism I don't know, and whether this time they would need to re baptize him [again?] is also worth pondering. If they do re immerse him, he will be fully clothed so the image does not disturb me.

I do wonder whether they shouldn't send from some authentic River Jordan water (or maybe water from Gothard's bath?) since clearly the previous baptism did not really "take."

;)

[antwan]

But what's behind that white curtain behind the podium?

It's a NEW CAR!!!

[antwan]

Don't attend Charismatic/Pentecostal, but have friends who do. This friend's explanation of speaking in tongues is laughable. I mean, it's lame AND it's funny, really. But it's not an accurate reflection of what Pentecostals believe or reason about speaking in tongues.

I did ask a Pentecostal pastor, once, why the gift of tongues seemed present in his church but absent in mine (eyebrow raised). His answer (which didn't convince me) was that the Holy Spirit would not cause unrest or disruption, and if that were the case (as it apparently would be in my church :snooty: ), then that gift would not appear there. Hmmmm! :think:

[blessalessi]

There is a section which sort of hints at Josh's impatience for knowing more about girls before it was right, but it is disguised behind an anecdote about the little girl and the suitcase that was too heavy. Apparently Jim Bob used it to indicate that sex is only for when you are ready. Trust JimBob to take an anecdote that is generally used to illustrate to children that God won't send them burdens (responsibilities) they can't handle as some lesson about waiting for sex! :roll:

The suitcase story is from Corrie Ten Boom's autobiography I think. She asked her father what "sex sin" is, and he asked her to pick up his suitcase, and then went on with the metaphor about God not asking us to carry more than we can bear at the present time.

Is that really on JA20? ETA: OMG it is, but the Duggars made it out to refer to sex in general.... What a "tell"! And how deeply unfortunate.... If Josh had been educated about sex, and informed exactly which parts are good and which are forbidden then they could a prevented a whole world of sex sin-related trouble.

[Swamptribe]

For those of us who are late coming to this thread, could someone kindly sum things up. Thanks

[blessalessi]

For those of us who are late coming to this thread, could someone kindly sum things up. Thanks

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic that we are talking about random crap, or serious about wanting a summary.... :)

Either way, HA pretty much summed it up in the post 1 summary:"We're reached the point in the scandal lifecycle where there's nothing new to talk about but people aren't ready to stop talking."