Joshley Madison Pt 7: O Smuggar Where Art Thou?

[EmCatlyn]

The suitcase story is from Corrie Ten Boom's autobiography I think. She asked her father what "sex sin" is, and he asked her to pick up his suitcase, and then went on with the metaphor about God not asking us to carry more than we can bear at the present time.

Is that really on JA20? ETA: OMG it is, but the Duggars made it out to refer to sex in general.... What a "tell"! And how deeply unfortunate.... If Josh had been educated about sex, and informed exactly which parts are good and which are forbidden then they could a prevented a whole world of sex sin-related trouble.

It is from Corrie Ten Boom's the Hiding place but I had forgotten that Ten Boom's father made the analogy when little Corrie asked about sex sin. I remember her making some allusion to the suitcase story later, when she is talking about the risks and so forth of helping Jews. was able to do what she did later on. In my mind I always thought of the story as linked to adult burdens. And I have run into the suitcase analogy in other contexts since then and it was always about God not expecting you to carry burdens you couldn't handle. (A friend got a version of this when her mother died and she was wondering how she could handle it.)

But yeah, even though Ten Boom's father used it to deal with a child''s question about "sex sin", (and not the broader topic I remembered) the Duggar version is Totally Twisted. I can just hear Jim Bob saying this about the suitcase while explaining to 15 year old Joshie why it is too soon to feel up girls, even through their clothes. :angry-:

-----------

Edited to confirm that, upon checking, I found that Ten Boom's father was talking about "sex sin." (Thanks for reminding me, blessalessa)

[Mr.Bowie]

I tried to post this earlier, but it didn't take...

Another shout out to Faree. Could hardly fall asleep last night for laughing.

I did not see that other forum members said they were on the chat. Where did those other excellent posters in the live chat hail from? A whole new world of snarkers just let loose.

And as someone said earlier, I bet it will not be a live chat next week. What a riot. :cracking-up:

I believe there were several from FJ that were on last night. The rum was flowing so I may not remember correctly.

I read through again later and LOVED Muffy's "my hand often offends me when I'm online" comment. Well done to whoever Muffy is! :dance:

[calimojo]

My idea of a separate thread would consist of one "post" which would be updated every time he does something new or there is an update to the story. Discussion about it would not be on that thread. People would simply click on it, get the low down on what just happen and then resume the snarking back over on this thread. I'm obviously not the only one who agrees to this sort of idea of doing something like this. It's a pain in the butt to keep weeding through the OT posts on this thread that grows by the second just to try to find out what just happened. It's also a nuisance to keep having to post "What just happened? Can someone give a summary?" When one separate thread could be just that. A summary of what just happened. If one of the admins doesn't like it, that's fine. But I'm not the only one here that would appreciate something like this.

I think this is a good idea. I know HA has vetoed the idea, but perhaps we "put it in the parking lot" to ponder at another time.

At a time when a big story is just breaking, and there are frequent updates, a thread like that would be good. And I think it is inevitable that there would be some side convos, but I also think, knowing the direct style most posters have, that someone would quickly remind the chatty poster that the thread is not for conversation, just for news updates. Take the chatter about the update to the main threads.

I sort of feel like there are different types of FJ members. And this is not said with any level of judgment, just stating my impression.

One type is a group who are able, or choose to have FJ open much of the day and they post frequently. And then another type who are unable to be on the site much of the day, so they drop by a time or two daily and hope to get caught up on discussion or news.

For the people who are able to be on FJ a lot, the long conversations, and the rolling off topic is not a big deal, because they are in the midst of it. They are just rolling along with the tide of the topic.

For those who stop by once or twice a day, those lengthy off topic excursions are hard to follow. It is often hard to determine what started them, and hard to weed out the occasional on topic nugget that is dropped in amidst the conversation.

I am sort of a blend of both of these types. I work, a lot. I mean, a lot a lot. I have 2 jobs, and I am also in a study program for a special certification. So I tend to do what I call a "Fly by" where I stop by and see if anything new is going on, or to check on thread where I have been active.

Then, sometimes, I grant myself the time to just linger or to keep the page open while I do other things. So then I enjoy following the ebb and flow of the many twists and turns that lots of the threads develop.

For my "fly by" visits, I would love a newsy thread that just is like the CNN HLN. Just a quick snippet of news. For my lingering sessions, I prefer to get into the threads and follow conversations.

At the end of the day though, we are all grown ups and if we don't like what we encounter here, we can stop or go elsewhere. Sometimes I will visit Pickles because she pretty much puts up the newest info. IN a quick 2-3 minutes, I get caught up. Then I come to FJ if I want to join in discussion.

[Swamptribe]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic that we are talking about random crap, or serious about wanting a summary.... :)

Either way, HA pretty much summed it up in the post 1 summary:"We're reached the point in the scandal lifecycle where there's nothing new to talk about but people aren't ready to stop talking."

Sorry, typed in a hurry, and should have better phrased my request. Could somebody post a summary of the whole live feed thing? It gets kind of confusing coming in 6 or 7 pages in, with all sorts of side speculation going on and a quick "Well, there was a live feed of some church service or other that Josh attended" or something would be very helpful. I mean, I have no idea if that's what the live feed was (missed it live) and it's kind of a pain in the tookus to go through pages and pages of people just randomly speculating on stuff trying to figure out what's going on.

[Mr.Bowie]

Sorry, typed in a hurry, and should have better phrased my request. Could somebody post a summary of the whole live feed thing? It gets kind of confusing coming in 6 or 7 pages in, with all sorts of side speculation going on and a quick "Well, there was a live feed of some church service or other that Josh attended" or something would be very helpful. I mean, I have no idea if that's what the live feed was (missed it live) and it's kind of a pain in the tookus to go through pages and pages of people just randomly speculating on stuff trying to figure out what's going on.

There were over 450 comments so its best to read them to get the whole effect. Here is the (broken) link livestream.com/northlove/events/3868452

[luv2laugh]

I think this is a good idea. I know HA has vetoed the idea, but perhaps we "put it in the parking lot" to ponder at another time.

At a time when a big story is just breaking, and there are frequent updates, a thread like that would be good. And I think it is inevitable that there would be some side convos, but I also think, knowing the direct style most posters have, that someone would quickly remind the chatty poster that the thread is not for conversation, just for news updates. Take the chatter about the update to the main threads.

I sort of feel like there are different types of FJ members. And this is not said with any level of judgment, just stating my impression.

One type is a group who are able, or choose to have FJ open much of the day and they post frequently. And then another type who are unable to be on the site much of the day, so they drop by a time or two daily and hope to get caught up on discussion or news.

For the people who are able to be on FJ a lot, the long conversations, and the rolling off topic is not a big deal, because they are in the midst of it. They are just rolling along with the tide of the topic.

For those who stop by once or twice a day, those lengthy off topic excursions are hard to follow. It is often hard to determine what started them, and hard to weed out the occasional on topic nugget that is dropped in amidst the conversation.

I am sort of a blend of both of these types. I work, a lot. I mean, a lot a lot. I have 2 jobs, and I am also in a study program for a special certification. So I tend to do what I call a "Fly by" where I stop by and see if anything new is going on, or to check on thread where I have been active.

Then, sometimes, I grant myself the time to just linger or to keep the page open while I do other things. So then I enjoy following the ebb and flow of the many twists and turns that lots of the threads develop.

For my "fly by" visits, I would love a newsy thread that just is like the CNN HLN. Just a quick snippet of news. For my lingering sessions, I prefer to get into the threads and follow conversations.

At the end of the day though, we are all grown ups and if we don't like what we encounter here, we can stop or go elsewhere. Sometimes I will visit Pickles because she pretty much puts up the newest info. IN a quick 2-3 minutes, I get caught up. Then I come to FJ if I want to join in discussion.

You took the words right out of my mouth! :clap:

[sawasdee]

Cynical, horrible me thinks he'd run off to Thailand. Cheap cost of living, (most importantly) a roaring sex trade with plenty of girls who won't know who he is (since he's indistinguishable from the dozens of doughy, pathetic white guys they get as clients...those poor girls), easy to get off the grid if you ditch your US SIM card and just get a burner phone there and stay off social media.

Sorry I live in Thailand and we are unfortunately bombarded with frequent Duggar episodes - she'd know who he was :whistle:

[blessalessi]

The live feed was just an RU meeting and Josh was not seen there. There is a link somewhere if you want to watch the service.

If I miss a large section of a thread I tend to just hit randomly along the page numbers to see if there seems to be a big hoohaa about anything interesting, But this particular thread is doing exactly what it says on the tin - talking about nothing because nothing is happening.

My 2 cents on the summary thread idea: in order for a summary thread to work, someone would have to take responsibility for it, and if they dropped the ball, it would roll to the already overstretched admin.

It's just not reasonable for members who don't have time to be here to expect recaps from everyone else, IMO. Unless individuals want to do so at times that suit them.

[luv2laugh]

The live feed was just an RU meeting and Josh was not seen there. There is a link somewhere if you want to watch the service.

If I miss a large section of a thread I tend to just hit randomly along the page numbers to see if there seems to be a big hoohaa about anything interesting, But this particular thread is doing exactly what it says on the tin - talking about nothing because nothing is happening.

My 2 cents on the summary thread idea: in order for a summary thread to work, someone would have to take responsibility for it, and if they dropped the ball, it would roll to the already overstretched admin.

It's just not reasonable for members who don't have time to be here to expect recaps from everyone else, IMO. Unless individuals want to do so at times that suit them.

How can you be so sure that nothing is happening? In less than a week, Daniel Keller makes FB posts about trying to get Anna to leave, Danica not only writes to magazines that she was paid to sleep with Josh, but she gives an in person interview to ET saying that she felt "almost raped" by him. Next, a mistress writes to a magazine that she slept with Josh from the Ashley Madison website and had a pregnancy scare. Further, Josh goes MIA from the "rehab". Then, Amy Duggar gives statements to magazines saying she is furious. On top of that, now we find out today that Dillon King is also giving an interview to In Touch set to debut Sept 14th that Anna should leave but is being encouraged not to by the Duggars. That sure is A LOT of "nothing" to happen in a week!

[blessalessi]

It is from Corrie Ten Boom's autobiography, but my memory is that the context was NOT sex sin, but adult burdens in general. I remember her making some allusion to the story in the context of why she was able to do what she did later on. Maybe I am remembering wrong (it's been at least 30 years since I read the book) but I do know I have run into the suitcase analogy in other contexts since then and it was always about God not expecting you to carry burdens you couldn't handle. (A friend got a version of this when her mother died and she was wondering how she could handle it.)

But yeah, even if Ten Boom's father used it to deal with a child''s question about "sex sin", (and not the broader topic I remember) the Duggar version is Totally Twisted. I can just hear Jim Bob saying this about the suitcase while explaining to 15 year old Joshie why it is too soon to feel up girls, even through their clothes. :angry-banghead:

I've looked it up and it was definitely about "sex sin" in particular - she talks about how this was the turn of the 20th and people didn't talk about sex. Her mother blushed when she asked about a term she heard in a poem at school, and so then she asked her father who used the suitcase as a metaphor for how parents don't ask children to carry more difficult knowledge than necessary for their age.

The irony is that we were at the turn of another century and the Duggars were unable to talk about sex at all with Josh.

[blessalessi]

How can you be so sure that nothing is happening? In less than a week, Daniel Keller makes FB posts about trying to get Anna to leave, Danica not only writes to magazines that she was paid to sleep with Josh, but she gives an in person interview to ET saying that she felt "almost raped" by him. Next, a mistress writes to a magazine that she slept with Josh from the Ashley Madison website and had a pregnancy scare. Further, Josh goes MIA from the "rehab". Then, Amy Duggar gives statements to magazines saying she is furious. On top of that, now we find out today that Dillon King is also giving an interview to In Touch set to debut Sept 14th that Anna should leave but is being encouraged not to by the Duggars. That sure is A LOT of "nothing" to happen in a week!

Sorry, O esteemed long-timer! :lol:

I was responding to the other poster and saying that, IMO, nothing had happened during the 7 pages she missed, not the whole of the last week. :D

[Seren Ann]

I think this is a good idea. I know HA has vetoed the idea, but perhaps we "put it in the parking lot" to ponder at another time.

At a time when a big story is just breaking, and there are frequent updates, a thread like that would be good. And I think it is inevitable that there would be some side convos, but I also think, knowing the direct style most posters have, that someone would quickly remind the chatty poster that the thread is not for conversation, just for news updates. Take the chatter about the update to the main threads.

I sort of feel like there are different types of FJ members. And this is not said with any level of judgment, just stating my impression.

One type is a group who are able, or choose to have FJ open much of the day and they post frequently. And then another type who are unable to be on the site much of the day, so they drop by a time or two daily and hope to get caught up on discussion or news.

For the people who are able to be on FJ a lot, the long conversations, and the rolling off topic is not a big deal, because they are in the midst of it. They are just rolling along with the tide of the topic.

For those who stop by once or twice a day, those lengthy off topic excursions are hard to follow. It is often hard to determine what started them, and hard to weed out the occasional on topic nugget that is dropped in amidst the conversation.

I am sort of a blend of both of these types. I work, a lot. I mean, a lot a lot. I have 2 jobs, and I am also in a study program for a special certification. So I tend to do what I call a "Fly by" where I stop by and see if anything new is going on, or to check on thread where I have been active.

Then, sometimes, I grant myself the time to just linger or to keep the page open while I do other things. So then I enjoy following the ebb and flow of the many twists and turns that lots of the threads develop.

For my "fly by" visits, I would love a newsy thread that just is like the CNN HLN. Just a quick snippet of news. For my lingering sessions, I prefer to get into the threads and follow conversations.

At the end of the day though, we are all grown ups and if we don't like what we encounter here, we can stop or go elsewhere. Sometimes I will visit Pickles because she pretty much puts up the newest info. IN a quick 2-3 minutes, I get caught up. Then I come to FJ if I want to join in discussion.

Just wanted to say, I agree with all you said completely. I would add that I am of the 2nd type, and I often feel like here, the only "right" type of member is the 1rst type. If you don't have time to read, boohoo for you. It's a little disingenuous since most of us do have jobs, families, lives to take care of.

I wish there were a solution... The ideal one would be a good, up to date fundie snark blog that centralises all the information. But people would have to send in tips because no one person could stay abreast of everything that happens. Oh well, a girl can dream...

[luv2laugh]

Just wanted to say, I agree with all you said completely. I would add that I am of the 2nd type, and I often feel like here, the only "right" type of member is the 1rst type. If you don't have time to read, boohoo for you. It's a little disingenuous since most of us do have jobs, families, lives to take care of.

I wish there were a solution... The ideal one would be a good, up to date fundie snark blog that centralises all the information. But people would have to send in tips because no one person could stay abreast of everything that happens. Oh well, a girl can dream...

I agree, I'm definitely the 2nd type. It's really tricky to catch up on what's going on when we have to weed through all of the posts ranging from Harry Potter to nail polish to theological debates and chatter about a live meeting (I guess?) that occurred really early today. I had no idea what was going on at all. I don't mind aimless chatter I really don't, it brings the community together and it's fun. I just agree that I would like an HLN CNN newsy type thread that keeps everyone in the loop. A news thread would be where we could get concise breaking news info and then we can come here, full well knowing what just happened, and join in on the chatter. It stinks for us members that keep checking in on this thread and have NO idea what is going on except for OT inside joke type of chatter. It makes you feel really out of the loop and "out of the club". In my opinion, it can actually be a negative thing for FJ because it prevents others from posting since it's intimidating to feel so "out of the loop." When others aren't posting and you just have the same certain users chattering about whatever, a type of clique forms. That is what we are seeing going on. It's fine, I guess but more of us would appreciate it if we could know what's going on too and be able to join in.

[TalarSvenska]

For info re the unusual (and funny) posts and posters on last night's RU lifestream, check out this link at PTV: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/4650- ... r/page-222. Start shortly before the RU lifestream begins and scroll forward.

[SamE]

I think that it is just part of FJ. (Un)fortunately, I am not someone who can be here ALL THE TIME. More of just a drive by here and there.

You catch what you can. Hope you contribute to the convo. If you don't contribute correctly according to the hive be prepared to be spanked by someone who is here a lot. It is just the way it is.

If I want strictly Duggar, I go to Pickles.

[MichellezBangz]

There were over 450 comments so its best to read them to get the whole effect. Here is the (broken) link livestream.com/northlove/events/3868452

Thanks! Just the sampling of comments on here were cracking me up. Well done to FJ'ers and others for the hilarity!

[blessalessi]

Just wanted to say, I agree with all you said completely. I would add that I am of the 2nd type, and I often feel like here, the only "right" type of member is the 1rst type. If you don't have time to read, boohoo for you. It's a little disingenuous since most of us do have jobs, families, lives to take care of.

I wish there were a solution... The ideal one would be a good, up to date fundie snark blog that centralises all the information. But people would have to send in tips because no one person could stay abreast of everything that happens. Oh well, a girl can dream...

Why is it disingenuous to point out that other people, and the admin in particular, simply don't have time to make summary threads for the benefit of people who don't have time to read here?

Seriously, I think I understand what you would like to happen, and the reason why you would like it but, as it stands, Happy Atheist already makes a summary at the start of each thread. What else can or should she (or anyone else) do about the fact that you have a job, family and life to take care of?

I was as confused as hell by the last thread. I went out for a family party and came back unable to work out who was manicure manouvreing whom! But it didn't occur to me that I was being "left out" because my absence started when I went out of my own volition.

[luv2laugh]

I agree, I'm definitely the 2nd type. It's really tricky to catch up on what's going on when we have to weed through all of the posts ranging from Harry Potter to nail polish to theological debates and chatter about a live meeting (I guess?) that occurred really early today. I had no idea what was going on at all. I don't mind aimless chatter I really don't, it brings the community together and it's fun. I just agree that I would like an HLN CNN newsy type thread that keeps everyone in the loop. A news thread would be where we could get concise breaking news info and then we can come here, full well knowing what just happened, and join in on the chatter. It stinks for us members that keep checking in on this thread and have NO idea what is going on except for OT inside joke type of chatter. It makes you feel really out of the loop and "out of the club". In my opinion, it can actually be a negative thing for FJ because it prevents others from posting since it's intimidating to feel so "out of the loop." When others aren't posting and you just have the same certain users chattering about whatever, a type of clique forms. That is what we are seeing going on. It's fine, I guess but more of us would appreciate it if we could know what's going on too and be able to join in.

Again, it's just my opinion. It would be great if we could be a bit more inviting for everyone. No, not just the "random noobs" but for the everyday members that can't be sitting here 24/7.

[VTSleeper]

Some thoughts about the RU livestream now that I have had some time to let things sink in:

It was quite clear that they were deleting offending comments. At first, people were being VERY snarky and asking directly about Josh. Those comments were deleted as fast as they could delete them. I eventually had my Livestream account blocked entirely from making comments. I quickly created a new Livestream account and began posting under a new name. My new persona was much more pious - but no less sarcastic.

I cannot believe that they failed to understand that 99% of the comments were complete snark. The Livestream feed used to get MAYBE 2 or 3 viewers - probably family members of participants. We had about 70 viewers last night. I think that they are ECSTATIC that Josh is alleged to be in their program. I've always believed that they see this as a golden marketing tool, and whoever edited the comments last night probably has drank the Kool-Aid. It appeared that they were completely clueless that everyone was making fun of their program.

I will be curious to see if they catch on next week. I am going to use a different username just in case.

It's actually not a bad thing that people are watching the RU program. If you watch it, you quickly realize that it is devoid of any substance at all. I actually feel sorry for the people that are in the program. They are being led to believe that they are getting real help, and spending lots of money on that hope.

[luv2laugh]

Why is it disingenuous to point out that other people, and the admin in particular, simply don't have time to make summary threads for the benefit of people who don't have time to read here?

Seriously, I think I understand what you would like to happen, and the reason why you would like it but, as it stands, Happy Atheist already makes a summary at the start of each thread. What else can or should she (or anyone else) do about the fact that you have a job, family and life to take care of?

I was as confused as hell by the last thread. I went out for a family party and came back unable to work out who was manicure manouvreing whom! But it didn't occur to me that I was being "left out" because my absence started when I went out of my own volition.

Also, I will flat out say many of your comments make people feel as if they are "left out" and can't post just because you don't 100% agree with what someone is saying. I don't appreciate your snarky comments just because I state my opinion and you don't agree with it. You've just been very rude and it's not nice to treat other members that way. I don't agree with a lot of your comments but you know what, I keep my mouth shut. If you have nothing nice to say why say it at all? It's just very telling when certain members are taking their own personal frustrations out on others here. It's sad.

[EmCatlyn]

I've looked it up and it was definitely about "sex sin" in particular - she talks about how this was the turn of the 20th and people didn't talk about sex. Her mother blushed when she asked about a term she heard in a poem at school, and so then she asked her father who used the suitcase as a metaphor for how parents don't ask children to carry more difficult knowledge than necessary for their age.

The irony is that we were at the turn of another century and the Duggars were unable to talk about sex at all with Josh.

You are right. I checked too and fixed my message accordingly.

I think we are agreed that JimBob used the analogy to address the entire topic of sexual curiosity and sex in a way that essentially evaded the issue of necessary sex education.

I further see Josh's use of the story as a way of mentioning his adolescent "fall" without revealing anything that really happened. Since this was posted before the Joshgate 1 revelations, I think it gives us insight into how the family essentially evaded dealing with his problems.

[TalarSvenska]

Check out http://forums.previously.tv/topic/4650- ... r/page-222 The PTV posters were snarking the RU lifestream last night along with FJ. This explains a lot.

ETA: Sorry, this duped my earlier post (which I couldn't find at first, so I recreated it - though I couldn't recall my exact wording). Tried to delete this one when I realized the info was already up, but apparently that's not do-able. Apologies.

[blessalessi]

Some thoughts about the RU livestream now that I have had some time to let things sink in:

It was quite clear that they were deleting offending comments. At first, people were being VERY snarky and asking directly about Josh. Those comments were deleted as fast as they could delete them. I eventually had my Livestream account blocked entirely from making comments. I quickly created a new Livestream account and began posting under a new name. My new persona was much more pious - but no less sarcastic.

I cannot believe that they failed to understand that 99% of the comments were complete snark. The Livestream feed used to get MAYBE 2 or 3 viewers - probably family members of participants. We had about 70 viewers last night. I think that they are ECSTATIC that Josh is alleged to be in their program. I've always believed that they see this as a golden marketing tool, and whoever edited the comments last night probably has drank the Kool-Aid. It appeared that they were completely clueless that everyone was making fun of their program.

I will be curious to see if they catch on next week. I am going to use a different username just in case.

It's actually not a bad thing that people are watching the RU program. If you watch it, you quickly realize that it is devoid of any substance at all. I actually feel sorry for the people that are in the program. They are being led to believe that they are getting real help, and spending lots of money on that hope.

I can't believe God didn't have a word in their ear about the trolls. :mrgreen:

I'm kind of stunned that they violate their members' privacy like that. But, set in context of the whole unlikely rehab package, maybe the live service is not the worst of what they do. :shifty-kitty:

[Imagine20]

I just checked out the RU livefeed link and saw the stills. Is it normal for Baptist churches to include an American flag and no cross or crucifix at the head of the church? I grew up WELS Lutheran (super conservative, super crazy) and those churches always had a cross prominently displayed above the altar as well as on the altar itself. Then again, I left the Christian faith a long time ago, so is the flag thing more prominent in churches now a days?

I also think the live feeds are an invasion of privacy. I wonder if they'll continue to do that, after yesterday's popularity.

[blessalessi]

You are right. I checked too and fixed my message accordingly.

I think we are agreed that JimBob used the analogy to address the entire topic of sexual curiosity and sex in a way that essentially evaded the issue of necessary sex education.

Agreed. :)

Culturally, the Ten Booms were almost the polar opposites of the Duggars. It is pretty awesome really that 11 year old Corrie felt comfortable and able to recognise her mother's discomfort, and then still feel able to ask her father the same question. Her Daddy genuinely "had her heart" in a way the fundies today could only dream of.

For all their public dry-humping, Jimboob and Michelle seem to have been ridiculously repressed in their parenting, long before the trouble with Josh started.

ETA, I only had that strong feeling it was "sex sin" because I was 11ish when I read The Hiding Place, and the suitcase metaphor didn't satisfy my curiosity at all, but I was far too embarrased to ask anyone else what it meant. :P :lol:

I further see Josh's use of the story as a way of mentioning his adolescent "fall" without revealing anything that really happened. Since this was posted before the Joshgate 1 revelations, I think it gives us insight into how the family essentially evaded dealing with his problems.

Yes, looking again, the whole page is full of tells.

Poor Anna was probably so naive that she would have accepted the suitcase metaphor like 11 year old Corrie did. Except she was 20 and her father sent her into marriage dragging with her the heaviest suitcase of all time.

So desperately sad.