Pedophiles don't change their spots

[Cicero]

7 minutes ago, refugee said:

Is it allowable to ask for a link to your blog?

cicerokirk.wordpress.com

Thanks for your interest!

[older than allosaurs]

Rachel Held Evans has tweeted about a Doug Wilson quote explaining that women who refuse male protection are tacitly agreeing to the "propriety of rape."

Many, many words have ensued on his blog, explaining how no one with a grasp of logic could think that what he said actually meant what it said. I think he's a bit torqued about the disparity between himself and RHE in numbers of Twitter followers.

[Cicero]

1 hour ago, older than allosaurs said:

Rachel Held Evans has tweeted about a Doug Wilson quote explaining that women who refuse male protection are tacitly agreeing to the "propriety of rape."

Many, many words have ensued on his blog, explaining how no one with a grasp of logic could think that what he said actually meant what it said. I think he's a bit torqued about the disparity between himself and RHE in numbers of Twitter followers.

 

Here is the Blogger Who Must Not Be Named, Nate Sparks', post that caught RHE's attention and started this.

[hoipolloi]

Wow. Nate Sparks' open letter is excellent, especially this bit near the end, when he's calling out the TGC about their "Christian" leadership:

Quote

You have commodified fear, then sold it to the weak and victimized as faith.  You have entrenched yourself in privilege, then built a god in your own image to keep the “peasants” from revolting.  And worst of all, you have built an empire which profiteers off the abuses suffered by its subjects, all the while silencing their voices of impoverished dissent.  Thus, I contend that your commitment to complementarian theology is a commitment to corruption, an adherence to a tradition in which even the leaders do not have the victim’s well-being at heart.

 

[onlyme]

Poor Doug! His sales are down! Nobody will buy Wordsmithy because of the Intoleristas! 

And Christianity as a whole is unable to write because of this sad, sad turn of events. 

https://dougwils.com/s16-theology/110225.html

[refugee]

7 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Poor Doug! His sales are down! Nobody will buy Wordsmithy because of the Intoleristas! 

And Christianity as a whole is unable to write because of this sad, sad turn of events. 

https://dougwils.com/s16-theology/110225.html

Gah. I cannot stand the man. And here I was suckered into reading his tongue-in-cheek whinge.

Regarding this point:

Quote

2. Most Protestants have their kids in the government schools, which does to writing ability what the DMV does to the speedy processing of a new driver’s license.

One of our kids, on going from homeschool to government high school, improved in writing by a wide margin, with the help of the teachers there. Amazing what a trained professional can do.

Of course, DW is down on homeschooling, as I recall. He's big on putting your kids in christian classical school -- there, see, you have dedicated, (professional?) teachers to teach the kids. And of course it's superior to government schools, not least of which because you don't have to employ accredited teachers, at least you didn't the last time I looked.

So I guess that's all right then.

(Have I mentioned I cannot stand the man? One of the most satisfying parts of leaving fundieland was burning all the DW books we'd acquired over the years. Didn't want them to fall into anyone else's unsuspecting hands.)

[16strong]

On 2/2/2016 at 10:35 PM, older than allosaurs said:

Rachel Held Evans has tweeted about a Doug Wilson quote explaining that women who refuse male protection are tacitly agreeing to the "propriety of rape."

Many, many words have ensued on his blog, explaining how no one with a grasp of logic could think that what he said actually meant what it said. I think he's a bit torqued about the disparity between himself and RHE in numbers of Twitter followers.

She should try telling this to any U.S. (or western, for that matter) court. Doubt they'd see eye to eye.

[DomWackTroll]

This "Why Protestants Can't Write" stuff just makes me laugh. Nathaniel Hawthorne, Charles Dickens, C.S. Lewis, Pearl S. Buck, and Edith Wharton all did just fine. That current Reformed Americans are too scared to write what they really want to write has nothing to do with traditional Protestantism and everything to do with the toxic legalism and cult-ish thinking being pushed by Wilson and his cohorts. 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

I'm finding it difficult to read Wilson.

He takes paragraphs to say the most basic things, and the gymnastics he requires to get where he is going makes my eyes cross.

Crossed eyes and a headache = difficulty reading.

I don't understand why anyone would worship at the alter of this blatherskite.

[older than allosaurs]

1 hour ago, DomWackTroll said:

This "Why Protestants Can't Write" stuff just makes me laugh. Nathaniel Hawthorne, Charles Dickens, C.S. Lewis, Pearl S. Buck, and Edith Wharton all did just fine. That current Reformed Americans are too scared to write what they really want to write has nothing to do with traditional Protestantism and everything to do with the toxic legalism and cult-ish thinking being pushed by Wilson and his cohorts. 

And closer in time and closer to home for Doug, there's fellow Idahoan Marilynne Robinson. But then she talks with Obama (another noted Protestant who writes well) about faith in society, so she's off his list.

A Robinson quote I like: “Great theology is always a kind of giant and intricate poetry, like epic or saga.” For Mr. Wilson, I feel it's more a giant and intricate con game.

[refugee]

3 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

This "Why Protestants Can't Write" stuff just makes me laugh. Nathaniel Hawthorne, Charles Dickens, C.S. Lewis, Pearl S. Buck, and Edith Wharton all did just fine. That current Reformed Americans are too scared to write what they really want to write has nothing to do with traditional Protestantism and everything to do with the toxic legalism and cult-ish thinking being pushed by Wilson and his cohorts. 

Ye-e-es... but in another way, it has to do with the kind of education the kids get, as well. A lot of classics don't appear on their list. (Actually, I don't think any of the authors you mentioned were on the reading list at the rigorous christian classical high school co-op in our years there. Jane Austen, yes. G.K. Chesterton. John Milton and John Bunyan, I remember. George Grant. Uncle Tom's Cabin and Last of the Mohicans. Those are some of the names I remember. They were using Wilson's four-year Omnibus for literature suggestions, and I got rid of our years ago, so I really don't remember which authors the upper level class was required to read. Anybody else know what authors are featured in Omnibus I through IV?)

The point I'm trying to make, super-groggy on a Saturday morning and not enough coffee in the world to help, is that part of the formation of an effective writer involves wide reading and development of critical thinking.

Another thought: What are the plagiarism standards at Wilson's New Saint Andrews college? And I wonder if anyone's taken a look at the Omnibus books for irregularities, considering he's named as an editor... Of course I'm not accusing him of alleged plagiarism, simply the fact that he's been associated with more than one sloppy project in the past makes me wonder about the rest.

Yet another thought: Our heavily-Wilson-influenced classical christian co-op used Institute for Excellence in Writing's materials to teach writing. One of our teens informs me it's basically plagiarism-training, in the guise of a writing program.

[refugee]

3 hours ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

I'm finding it difficult to read Wilson.

He takes paragraphs to say the most basic things, and the gymnastics he requires to get where he is going makes my eyes cross.

Crossed eyes and a headache = difficulty reading.

I don't understand why anyone would worship at the alter of this blatherskite.

I think it's a bit of "Emperor's New Clothes" syndrome. He and his ilk have always* been like that, obfuscating the simplest of concepts with their oh-so-clever and snarky writing, with a tone that says, "if you don't follow what I'm saying, then obviously your intellect falls short."

So wannabe intellectuals of my acquaintance read his stuff and nod and discuss it and many (of the males, in particular) try to match the snarky, gnostic tone.

We had a subscription to Credenda Agenda for awhile, and I just couldn't read it; the self-satisfied tone drowned out any possibility of my hearing what the author was saying. It was kind of like trying to listen to classical music with a fire alarm going in the background -- too distracted to concentrate.

And yet too many people in our old circles ate that stuff up, and took it up themselves, I assume because it made them feel superior to others?

* at least, since the 1990s, my first exposure to the man's seminars and books

Spoiler

Is this how you do hidden text? Honestly, DW has some evil magic in his writing... just the other day, my spouse was reading us his answer to RHE and it really resonated with him, appealing to his, um, what. ego? better instincts? noble leanings? He was saying, "but DW is defending himself here, because he really wasn't saying women not under a man's protection deserve to be raped, he was talking about a man's instinct to protect those he feels responsible for..." The younger teen was horribly traumatized by the discussion, and the older one managed to stay the course and finally get the guy to consider that it's not about men protecting women (and women refusing that protection, and making themselves vulnerable) as DW frames the argument, but about people looking out for other people.

My dh is so brainwashed from two decades in the culture, sometimes I despair that he'll ever see things from our perspective. He tries, though. At least he tries.

 

[refugee]

39 minutes ago, refugee said:

Ye-e-es... but in another way, it has to do with the kind of education the kids get, as well. A lot of classics don't appear on their list. (Actually, I don't think any of the authors you mentioned were on the reading list at the rigorous christian classical high school co-op in our years there. Jane Austen, yes. G.K. Chesterton. John Milton and John Bunyan, I remember. George Grant. Uncle Tom's Cabin and Last of the Mohicans. Those are some of the names I remember. They were using Wilson's four-year Omnibus for literature suggestions, and I got rid of our years ago, so I really don't remember which authors the upper level class was required to read. Anybody else know what authors are featured in Omnibus I through IV?)

The point I'm trying to make, super-groggy on a Saturday morning and not enough coffee in the world to help, is that part of the formation of an effective writer involves wide reading and development of critical thinking.

Another thought: What are the plagiarism standards at Wilson's New Saint Andrews college? And I wonder if anyone's taken a look at the Omnibus books for irregularities, considering he's named as an editor... Of course I'm not accusing him of alleged plagiarism, simply the fact that he's been associated with more than one sloppy project in the past makes me wonder about the rest.

Yet another thought: Our heavily-Wilson-influenced classical christian co-op used Institute for Excellence in Writing's materials to teach writing. One of our teens informs me it's basically plagiarism-training, in the guise of a writing program.

Correction: I was able to find an Omnibus book list and both Lewis and Dickens are on it. I'm pretty sure our co-op didn't read every single thing on the list, though, just used Omnibus more as a resource (it has a lot of in-depth teacher's discussion of the books) than a textbook.

http://resource2.veritaspress.com/Diploma_Program/Enrolled_Families/Final_Documents/Omnibus_Reading_List.pdf

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, refugee said:

Another thought: What are the plagiarism standards at Wilson's New Saint Andrews college?

Plagiarism standards at NSA? They don't need no stinkin' plagiarism standards.

[refugee]

If you have time on your hands, and are a glutton for punishment, (or just enjoy picking apart blowhards and puffed-up barrage balloons) I have found free Credenda archives online. I also went to the magazine homepage and read a DW review of the Hunger Games book... I'll never get that time back...

http://www.credenda.org/archive/

[onlyme]

Doug Wilson is telling the truth when he says he didn't say women deserve to be raped, or that he approves of rape. He says (and I quote directly from "slut walks") she is justifying her rape. He can sit up in his pristine little tower and look down disapprovingly on both of them. 

It's a neat little bait and switch. He can say he doesn't approve, yet imply that approval has been given. He can say all the things he might like to be true (and his obsession with rape and his need to blur consent lines makes me have to wonder what goes on in that fat head of his.) yet at  the same time say he's actually not saying it, the woman is. 

Where the lines are he will never say. When does the woman's behavior cross this imaginary line of his? When her skirt hits here, she's safe, but an inch higher? When she gets a job outside the home? When she goes grocery shopping at night alone? 

But then when he is confronted he says "But I didn't say..." and then his supporters say, "That's right, he didn't say..." never mind that his critics never said he said... then the argument has to shift to what the critics said and Doug pours himself a scotch and watches. 

[older than allosaurs]

9 hours ago, onlyme said:

Doug Wilson is telling the truth when he says he didn't say women deserve to be raped, or that he approves of rape. He says (and I quote directly from "slut walks") she is justifying her rape. He can sit up in his pristine little tower and look down disapprovingly on both of them. 

It's a neat little bait and switch.

Brava! You nailed the dynamic as I see it. And the supporters who believe he's kind at the core admire his ability to weather all the unfair intolerista attacks without folding or crying... just like Jesus.

The admirers who like him because he's both clever and mean can copy his techniques and look down on cruder trolls the way call girls look down on streetwalkers (or so I'm told).

I do think he loses some of that finesse when he talks about people--like gay men and lesbians-- whom he doesn't have to deal with daily or sit next to at those Sunday dinners. His attacks get cruder.

 

 

[Howl]

Quote

2. Most Protestants have their kids in the government schools, which does to writing ability what the DMV does to the speedy processing of a new driver’s license.

And they also don't typically beat they crap out of their students.  You get that only at the DW affiliated Logos school.

If you want to know about the creeping influence of DW toxicity on Logos, you can read this 2012 post at the Wartburg Watch by a mom who had kids at Logos over 6 years.  Everything started out peachy-keen, but at  the end

Quote

I would characterize the climate at the Wilson-model school as authoritarian, legalistic, controlling, and misogynist.

This mom put all 4 or 5 of the kids in 'government' high school, with good results, except for the oldest, brilliant child who was probably emotionally damaged at Logos. 

thewartburgwatch.com/2012/09/21/guest-post-our-experiences-with-a-doug-wilson-style-classical-school/

Spankings and waster retention (denial of bathroom privileges) are de rigueur.

mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2003-December/006103.html

Doug Wilson is mean at the core. 

 

[refugee]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

And they also don't typically beat they crap out of their students.  You get that only at the DW affiliated Logos school.

If you want to know about the creeping influence of DW toxicity on Logos, you can read this 2012 post at the Wartburg Watch by a mom who had kids at Logos over 6 years.  Everything started out peachy-keen, but at  the end

This mom put all 4 or 5 of the kids in 'government' high school, with good results, except for the oldest, brilliant child who was probably emotionally damaged at Logos. 

thewartburgwatch.com/2012/09/21/guest-post-our-experiences-with-a-doug-wilson-style-classical-school/

Spankings and waster retention (denial of bathroom privileges) are de rigueur.

mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2003-December/006103.html

Doug Wilson is mean at the core. 

 

Wow. I had no idea. I did know that DW looks down on homeschooling, and recommends instead sending your kids to one of his branded schools for a superior education. I always thought it was economically driven -- he earns more that way -- but the rest that you describe... it's like a way to spread his contagion or disseminate his "seed" as widely as possible.

[libriatrix]

On 2/7/2016 at 10:51 AM, Howl said:

And they also don't typically beat they crap out of their students.  You get that only at the DW affiliated Logos school.

If you want to know about the creeping influence of DW toxicity on Logos, you can read this 2012 post at the Wartburg Watch by a mom who had kids at Logos over 6 years.  Everything started out peachy-keen, but at  the end

This mom put all 4 or 5 of the kids in 'government' high school, with good results, except for the oldest, brilliant child who was probably emotionally damaged at Logos. 

thewartburgwatch.com/2012/09/21/guest-post-our-experiences-with-a-doug-wilson-style-classical-school/

 

After reading that story; I realized she's not actually talking about Logos. She specifies that the school was on the east coast and that it became heavily influenced by Wilson, but it's not Logos itself. I have a pretty good idea which school she is talking about, but since she wants to maintain anonymity, I"m not sure I should say.

It is a pretty nasty story that she had to endure.

[apandaaries]

On 2/7/2016 at 0:15 PM, refugee said:

Wow. I had no idea. I did know that DW looks down on homeschooling, and recommends instead sending your kids to one of his branded schools for a superior education. I always thought it was economically driven -- he earns more that way -- but the rest that you describe... it's like a way to spread his contagion or disseminate his "seed" as widely as possible.

His followers also prefer his schools (though if his followers are an example of the success of his teachings, I'd be extremely wary).  When I was fighting it out in the comments section, one lackey accused me of sending my children to ebil government schools, where female teachers were raping boys in incredible numbers. He even had an MRA site to back up his dubious claims, so clearly he was right.   

What was most interesting about that was that the topic had nothing to do with the education of children.  They employ so many diversionary tactics in their attempts to shield Doug from criticism and defend him sitting atop his high horse...and this from a group which allegedly prides itself on its use of logic.  F'ing fascinating.

[onlyme]

Did you ask him if all these boys being raped by their women teachers were modestly dressed? 

[CyborgKin]

When Doug Wilson walks around without wearing ballistic protection, is he justifying his being shot?

(thanks to Katie Botkin for her latest blog post putting that comparison in my head.)

[Cicero]

Ulysses and Team Truth have uploaded a sworn affidavit about domestic abuse Jamin Wight afflicted on his then-wife. To hear her experience then his testimony is blood-curdling. Wilson is still relying on this man's witness to discredit Natalie. As long as Jamin is useful to Doug, it doesn't matter what he does, his word is golden.

[Howl]

10 hours ago, libriatrix said:

After reading that story; I realized she's not actually talking about Logos. She specifies that the school was on the east coast and that it became heavily influenced by Wilson, but it's not Logos itself. I have a pretty good idea which school she is talking about, but since she wants to maintain anonymity, I"m not sure I should say.

It is a pretty nasty story that she had to endure.

libriatrix, I'm embarrassed!  I should have read more closely.  I'd read several critiques of Logos and assumed she was talking about the Logos school.