Joshley Madison Part 6 - Sin, Confess, Repeat

[YoshiCat]

My ATI acquaintances are saying Josh and the Duggars have been singled out because out of the millions of names in the hack, only a few (I've heard of 3) celebrities have been named, and all of them conservatives.

After hearing this, I was curious and I went looking, and it looks as if they might be right, at least about the number of celebrity names released.

Does this mean Josh Duggar and those other couple of people are the most well-known figures in the database? Is that possible? Or is it possible that there's some sort of damage control and cover-up going on, and Duggar just had the bad luck to have his name released before the cover-up process started.

Don't mind me. I've just finished a glass of wine and am not 100% here, having no head for alcohol.

Conservatives never seem to understand that it's the hypocrisy. The Duggars put themselves on national television, saying "look at us, we're so godly, we know the best way and we never have pre-marital sexual thoughts, much less pre-marital sex." And Josh made it his job to bash gays, to say that they're destroying "traditional" marriage. And they campaign for politicians who are moral scolds.

If your son is sexually molesting his sisters and your primary reaction is "cover it up" rather than the safety and well being of the victims, you have no business telling other people they're immoral.

If you're cheating on your wife and paying porn stars to have sex with you, you have no business telling other people what harms marriage.

Sexually molesting your sisters (and unrelated girls) and paying a porn star for sex while you're married are not "traditional family values."

[YoshiCat]

Are we interpreting the lack of a denial about Danica Dillon by the Duggars as tacit admission that it's true? Something about her story still seems off to me--like it's just a grab for attention--but it does seem weird that they haven't responded to it at all.

If you want to know if something like this is true, wait and see if the aggrieved party sues for libel (or slander). Truth is an absolute defense.

Remember when Joe McGinnis wrote that book about Sarah Palin? Sarah Palin claimed it was all lies. If they were lies, she could have sued him and proven that it was all lies. But she didn't.

Now there's also the possibility that something was printed that is not true, but the reporter/publication reasonably believed it was true. In that case, they're not actually guilty of libel.

Like everything involving the legal system, it's much messier and more complicated in real life, but that's the basic explanation. I used to be a journalist and we're well acquainted with libel law.

I sincerely doubt that a print magazine like In Touch printed that story without it being reviewed by lawyers, probably multiple times. I've had stories that had to go through legal review and it's a royal PITA. You have to defend every single thing you wrote eight ways to Sunday. It starts to feel like the lawyer's hate you and want to make sure your story never ever gets published.

Furthermore, if they didn't go through a legal review and they lose a libel suit, their libel insurance is not going to pay.

But if I recall corectly, the porn star story broke the day or the day after he went to rehab. If the rehab place really won't let them talk to Josh, they can't ask him if it's true or not.

[YoshiCat]

But isn't that what the Duggars always professed doing? Didn't work well for Josh, did it!

I interpret this as Jim Bob trying to send a message to other fundies that is not his fault. He reposts "this is what you're supposed to do and by extension, this is what we did."

And the other fundies see it and nod along, "yes, that's right. That's what you're supposedoing to do. Jim Bob and Michelle did everything right and nothing wrong."

Jim Bob and Michelle spent their entire Megyn Kelly interview saying "we didn't do anything wrong. We handled everything exactly right."

It apparently never occurs to them that they might have handled something incorrectly.

[YoshiCat]

I agree. I feel badly for the kids and kidults who are living at the TTH. They are probably being lectured and made to spend hours in the prayer closet. The only plus is that maybe Boob and DQ will end up allocating more time to spend with them one-on-one, if only to ensure that they are not having "impure" thoughts or lusting after the mail carrier. :penguin-no:

I can't help noticing that the Pearls have the same philosophy. If beating your children isn't working, beat them more/harder.

Sending Josh off to do physical labor and pray didn't work? Clearly we need to send him off to do more physical labor and more praying.

How many of you have had an experience where you realized what you were doing wasn't working? I going to assume everyone raised their hands for that one. Now, how many of you said, "well, this clearly isn't working, the answer is to do more of what's not working?"

I volunteer for a rescue group, training shelter dogs who have behavior issues. And one thing we say constantly is "there is no one technique that works on all dogs, because they're individuals." You start with the technique that works on most dogs. If that's not working, you try another technique. Sometimes you run through the techniques you know and none of them work. Sometimes you have to get creative, you have to really look at that one dog and figure out what's going on with them and what that dog responds to.

And dogs aren't nearly as complicated and individual as humans.

It amazes me that they think there's one technique that works on all humans.

[PassTheCoffee]

I interpret this as Jim Bob trying to send a message to other fundies that is not his fault. He reposts "this is what you're supposed to do and by extension, this is what we did."

And the other fundies see it and nod along, "yes, that's right. That's what you're supposedoing to do. Jim Bob and Michelle did everything right and nothing wrong."

Jim Bob and Michelle spent their entire Megyn Kelly interview saying "we didn't do anything wrong. We handled everything exactly right."

It apparently never occurs to them that they might have handled something incorrectly.

Wouldn't it just be fantastic though if it was a subtle admission of failure? I can just imagine JB reposting this and thinking to himself... "If only we called NIKE a half second earlier that one time years ago" or "if anyone knew about the time that penny saver with the sports bra model slipped past us...." I'm seriously willing to bet they have pin pointed a ridiculous moment such as those and decided that is what caused all of Josh's issues. Because (in their world) that is so much more logical than all of the sexual repression/ shaming / lack of discussion-education. I know that is probably not the case, but it makes me feel better to think of it that way, that he could be taking some blame. Not that his "solution" is any better...

[LilyRose]

I can't help noticing that the Pearls have the same philosophy. If beating your children isn't working, beat them more/harder.

Sending Josh off to do physical labor and pray didn't work? Clearly we need to send him off to do more physical labor and more praying.

How many of you have had an experience where you realized what you were doing wasn't working? I going to assume everyone raised their hands for that one. Now, how many of you said, "well, this clearly isn't working, the answer is to do more of what's not working?"

I volunteer for a rescue group, training shelter dogs who have behavior issues. And one thing we say constantly is "there is no one technique that works on all dogs, because they're individuals." You start with the technique that works on most dogs. If that's not working, you try another technique. Sometimes you run through the techniques you know and none of them work. Sometimes you have to get creative, you have to really look at that one dog and figure out what's going on with them and what that dog responds to.

And dogs aren't nearly as complicated and individual as humans.

It amazes me that they think there's one technique that works on all humans.

I think it was Einstein who said doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity.

Which pretty much sums up the way the Duggars deal with life.

[NeverQuivered]

The Seewalds have finally issued a statement. If you can get through the biblical mumbo jumbo, they basically say Josh is a creep. /seewalds. com

[MakeItSo]

The Seewalds have finally issued a statement. If you can get through the biblical mumbo jumbo, they basically say Josh is a creep. /seewalds. com

I wonder how this statement will in turn affect the stuff Blessa and Bin will post on social media from now on. Like, I have to wonder if Bin's dad has had them over for dinner and talked to them about this.

[LilyRose]

The Seewalds have finally issued a statement. If you can get through the biblical mumbo jumbo, they basically say Josh is a creep. /seewalds. com

What really bugs me about the Seewalds post, among many others of the same theme, is that people are happy to hang Josh out to dry for cheating on his wife, and watching porn.

But they were all happy to support him and "stand with him" when it come out he had molested his 5 year old sister.

I mean, the logical part of my brain understands that this is due in large part to the fact that the abuse was historic, and they could hide behind the justification of "He was a kid, he's turned his life round, he's good now etc. etc." Which isn't the case with the latest scandal.

But even so, I find it very unsettling to see adultery being treated as a bigger deal than child molestation.

[sockinshoe]

This was being talked about a page or so ago, but JB and Michelle definitely 'saved themselves' for marriage. They've mentioned that when questioned about courtship in the past, and I'm guessing that's one of the main reasons they got married so young (Michelle wasn't even 18 yet at the time). They have, though, expressed a desire to have gone through a courtship modeled relationship and JB has said they went 'farther than they should' (probably making out and dry humping. you know, a normal teen relationship...) I'd say most of Michelle's regret is fueled by JB's clear disapproval of her having dated before him. Honestly, it would not surprise me in the least if JB did some stalking-type behaviors before they dated. Michelle has said she doesn't remember their first meeting, while JB clearly does, and talks about how when he saw her he was instantly smitten and thought she was the most beautiful blah blah blah, and finally asked her out when she was working at his mom's store. He also said he thought she only agreed because he was the boss's son. So maybe their whole relationship really started out as a creepy manipulation. It would explain where his children would've learned that manipulative behavior from, since Michelle displays about as much original thought as a Furby.

Iirc, he begged his mom to hire Michelle... Which is also creepy, because, at that point (again, iirc), Michelle had almost forgotten they had ever met. It's the kind of thing that sounds cute in retrospect, if everything works out. But knowing how fucked up their relationship is, it's a huge red flag.

[Ellie]

What really bugs me about the Seewalds post, among many others of the same theme, is that people are happy to hang Josh out to dry for cheating on his wife, and watching porn.

But they were all happy to support him and "stand with him" when it come out he had molested his 5 year old sister.

I mean, the logical part of my brain understands that this is due in large part to the fact that the abuse was historic, and they could hide behind the justification of "He was a kid, he's turned his life round, he's good now etc. etc." Which isn't the case with the latest scandal.

But even so, I find it very unsettling to see adultery being treated as a bigger deal than child molestation.

I think I can understand the logic. He was a teen when he molested his sisters. It is, of course, a very serious offense, something which needing to be dealt with seriously, but he was a teen and there was hope he could improve and take a better way, far from his previous sins and offenses. People who committed very bad things can turn into decent people after having being punished and helped, when they are truely helped. But Josh has been nor punished nor helped, and he has turned into a very poor husband and the older he gets the less it seems to be hope he improves some day and really turns into a decent man, at least. As I understand it, the statement does not lessen the child molestation but implies no one drew the appropriate consequences after the child molestation.

[WorkingOnIt]

The Seewalds have finally issued a statement. If you can get through the biblical mumbo jumbo, they basically say Josh is a creep. /seewalds. com

Seewald is saying that Josh was not a True Christian^TM. This is the only way he can make sense of it because like Jim Bob he absolutely cannot ever say there was something wrong with the Christian way he was raised.

[Idolatry]

The Seewalds need to sit down. Now he is a "Predator" but when little girls were involved he wasnt? Disgusting.

[tcach]

While I most fervently agree that molesting innocent children is by far the worst of Josh's behaviors I have been trying to think why there are still some who see the porn/adultery to be more heinous than the molestation.

Could it be that they believe the sanitized version that JB and Michelle provided and they are not aware of the additional details? It's also possible that they can't really relate to the child molestation because it couldn't happen to them now. However, porn addiction, strip clubs, and adultery are things that most certainly are a possibility for them and they can actually relate to that kind of situation.

Since Josh's double life was so intricately crafted with many lies and devious plans they simply can not classify it as "a mistake". The very premeditative aspect may be what has made some speak out against him.

[WorkingOnIt]

Personally I don't think it's useful to argue over which was worse. Both have and will cause ongoing heartache and damage for the victims (the girls from ~13 years ago, now his wife & children). What strikes me is that both acts were surely at least partly caused by a total lack of respect for others - women, coincidentally. If Jim Bob had spent his time teaching Josh that women have value as human beings beyond being subservient baby machines and, if he's lucky, handy with the tater tots, perhaps Josh would have thought twice before acting on his impulses.

[truthseeker]

Seewald is saying that Josh was not a True Christian^TM. This is the only way he can make sense of it because like Jim Bob he absolutely cannot ever say there was something wrong with the Christian way he was raised.

I can't find this. Can you post a link please?

[WorkingOnIt]

I can't find this. Can you post a link please?

It's on the main website, seewalds.com "Grief, Shame, And Taking The LORD’s Name In Vain", where you're greeted by a sad frowny or possibly constipated face. First blog post, click "continue reading".

The poor guy hasn't posted since his last rant about Josh in May, which gives his website the unfortunate first impression of existing purely to defend the Duggars.

[truthseeker]

It's on the main website, seewalds.com "Grief, Shame, And Taking The LORD’s Name In Vain", where you're greeted by a sad frowny or possibly constipated face. First blog post, click "continue reading".

The poor guy hasn't posted since his last rant about Josh in May, which gives his website the unfortunate first impression of existing purely to defend the Duggars.

Lordy! Thanks - I needed a new rabbit-hole :shock: Might have to wait till I can drink again to fall down it though ...

[Ellie]

While I most fervently agree that molesting innocent children is by far the worst of Josh's behaviors I have been trying to think why there are still some who see the porn/adultery to be more heinous than the molestation.

I don't believe adultery and porn are more heinous than molestation. However, and I am saying while I suffered molestation myself with all the consequences years later, I tend to be more indulgent with teens than with adults. It is not to say molestation perpetred by a teen should be forgotten without any punishment. But I am convinced recidivism can be prevented when a first-time offender is concerned, especially juvenile offender. After an offense, I am not interested in punishment for the sole punishment's sake, I am interested in justice. If the way the offense is dealt with leads to recidivism or other offense, justice has failed. Of course, Josh should be accountable for child molestation. But had he been accountable for it sooner, he would maybe had turned into someone more decent.

Therefore I do consider the adultery and porno as equally very serious matters for they show nothing serious has been done to prevent Josh for behaving with a total lack of respect of women. It was very irresponsible from his parents to sanitize the whole. A serious deal with it would have helped him a lot.

[VTSleeper]

One important piece that I have not seen discussed. Forgive me if it has, since I have not read the entirety of this multi-part discussion.

Josh knew that Ashley Madison had been hacked prior to the data being released. Therefore, he knew that his association with Ashley Madison was likely compromised. So what did Josh do? Absolutely nothing. It was only AFTER the data was released that Josh came clean. Is this the behavior of someone who is truly repentant, or is it the behavior of someone who was going to make sure that this remained hidden until and unless his back was up against the wall?

It's hard to take his repentance seriously in light of these facts.

[blessalessi]

It's on the main website, seewalds.com ... where you're greeted by a sad frowny or possibly constipated face. First blog post, click "continue reading".

The poor guy hasn't posted since his last rant about Josh in May, which gives his website the unfortunate first impression of existing purely to defend the Duggars.

I came back to thank you for the link and I was REALLY hoping someone else would want to snark on the bolded. :lol:

[WorkingOnIt]

I came back to thank you for the link and I was REALLY hoping someone else would want to snark on the bolded. :lol:

I imagine Josh's antics haven't helped anyone's digestion in the Duggar camp lately.

[TL;DR]

RE: the Seewald blog. TL;DR. And yawn. Michael Seewald must be *loving* every time something new gets dug up about Josh, because apparently that's the only time he's guaranteed any sort of traffic.

[djmd]

Josh knew that Ashley Madison had been hacked prior to the data being released. Therefore, he knew that his association with Ashley Madison was likely compromised. So what did Josh do? Absolutely nothing. It was only AFTER the data was released that Josh came clean.

I just think he was too stupid to realize exactly what information was stolen and could see the public eye. He used "alternative" email addresses and usernames, correct? He thought he was in the clear.

Edited because of not enough coffee yet

[Idolatry]

One important piece that I have not seen discussed. Forgive me if it has, since I have not read the entirety of this multi-part discussion.

Josh knew that Ashley Madison had been hacked prior to the data being released. Therefore, he knew that his association with Ashley Madison was likely compromised. So what did Josh do? Absolutely nothing. It was only AFTER the data was released that Josh came clean. Is this the behavior of someone who is truly repentant, or is it the behavior of someone who was going to make sure that this remained hidden until and unless his back was up against the wall?

It's hard to take his repentance seriously in light of these facts.

You mean like starting a national reality TV show about your squeaky clean family after your daughters were molested? The arrogance and hypocrisy are off the charts.