All Things Dillard - Part 4

[Librul]

Speaking of photos...the photo of Jill and Derrick on their website under the "About" tab, "Jill's Story" is headbangingly stupidilicous, times eleventy. Derrick looks like he is an overgrown child playing a shepherd in the homeskool Christmas pageant. I cannot believe people are giving money but there is no fool like a kool aid drinking fool.

[Boogalou]

Who is Izzy supposed to be making eye contact with? The person with some sort of recording device in front of their face? His parents who are to his side, kind of behind him, and way taller than him? This is a serious question: who is he supposed to be looking at??

[Snarkle Motion]

My point was to demonstrate how a couple innocent comments where someone asked a question about developmental delays got turned into a full on war about how terrible commenters are for suggesting Autism. This (as far as I can tell) were the original comments:

Question for the professionals...

I've seen a lot of posts across the webs about little Izzy not *looking* developmentally correct. I know his birth endangered his oxygen levels & that can have lasting affects. But when I see pictures of him (what few have circulated) I see a big but young infant doing infant things. Is perhaps his size throwing folks off? Perhaps because he's physically larger, onlookers assume he should be more advanced developmentally?

No he isn't laughing in every single picture but I don't find his gaze anymore empty then any other 2-3 month old....

Are people reaching?

and

Yes, something looked off with him in this video:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... en_US&_rdr

He looks like a newborn here, re his expression- hardly a 3 month old. In fact in every photo, this baby looks 'vegged out' and numb.

Autistic?

I don't think these comments were terrible and given what we know about autism I think its reasonable to discuss what signs someone should look for at that age. I thought people were being legitimately inquisitive and reasonable but this turned into a full on hate on for the posters about how terrible they are and how dare they bring up autism. I don't think they were saying Izzy should be diagnosed but really legitimately asking why someone would think that. Maybe not done in the most respectful manner but hardly the terrible awful comments that people made it seem.

[HarryPotterFan]

Who is Izzy supposed to be making eye contact with? The person with some sort of recording device in front of their face? His parents who are to his side, kind of behind him, and way taller than him? This is a serious question: who is he supposed to be looking at??

He's supposed to spin his head around like an owl.

[Snarkle Motion]

Who is Izzy supposed to be making eye contact with? The person with some sort of recording device in front of their face? His parents who are to his side, kind of behind him, and way taller than him? This is a serious question: who is he supposed to be looking at??

It was less him making eye contact with people and more that I've noticed a couple times his eyes not looking in the direction of sounds or other stimuli in several videos.

[CorruptionInc.]

I was tempted to look at their website.

Izzy looks very cute! Cathy looks like a beaming grandma (more than I can say for Mullet the worst granny in the world) and Jill looks a bit brighter now as she's had some time after surgery.

Their stories were blah, but I still thought it was ok and sweet.

THEN I saw the donation page. I took a look, nice little niche you have set up there for your voluntourism.

My Cousin is the same as them, she goes overseas several times a year to "volunteer" in Nepal but usually has a nice big European trip tacked on afterwards. I stopped giving her money once I found out. Even to go sew with her for a day she'd charge you $30.00.

Edited for grammar mistakes.

[SassyPants]

Jennifer McKinney AKA McKmama, also does the volunteer thing...along with the donate button. She's been doing it for years.

Yep, she's a scammer too.

Maybe JB and Josh can start selling fake diet drugs like McKmama. Evidently she's making a killing.

[withaj]

Not sure if this has already been posted, but the album of anniversary photos on the DillardFamily website is up -- I think I've still only seen the original image mentioned, at least in this thread.

dillardfamily.com/index.cfm?p=family-photos

[Snarkylark]

It was less him making eye contact with people and more that I've noticed a couple times his eyes not looking in the direction of sounds or other stimuli in several videos.

That is common behavior for a baby who is overstimulated, not a sign of being autistic.

[Snarkle Motion]

That is common behavior for a baby who is overstimulated, not a sign of being autistic.

Its not something I think is pronounced enough to make a big deal about. Its more that I know there HAS been a few occasions that I noticed behaviors I thought were suspect and it tweaked my radar. Actually the video that this person linked to wasn't the most prominent example. Its more about his gaze not following the sound of voices or other sounds, it was just something that I did notice but I'm more attuned to look for these kind of things. I just got really frustrated at the amount of vitriol heaped on commenters who I thought seemed to be genuinely asking about developmental appropriateness when I have felt that these were not unreasonable questions. Its not something I would go up to and say "your baby is displaying signs of autism" but it is something I think is acceptable to discuss in a forum if done in the right way and the amount of pure hatred heaped on people seemed outrageous to me. But I cause controversy...sorry...I don't mean to, I just get worked up, I'll try to be more well-thought out in my posts...everyone back to snarking on Jill for her donation page.

[Yoshimi]

I don't understand how people can look at these photos and say Izzy looks "vegged out". :cry:

Weren't there posters trying to diagnose Derick with Aspergers a while back because they thought he was "gullible" and "awkward"? Or another BS reason which I can't remember. Seems to me that some people really, really, really want to find something wrong with the Dillards.

[Imrlgoddess]

[attachment=0]2-mo-12-photogallery.jpg[/attachment][attachment=1]2-month-3-photogallery.jpg[/attachment]

I don't understand how people can look at these photos and say Izzy looks "vegged out". :cry:

Weren't there posters trying to diagnose Derick with Aspergers a while back because they thought he was "gullible" and "awkward"? Or another BS reason which I can't remember. Seems to me that some people really, really, really want to find something wrong with the Dillards.

^^ this was my point (probably poorly constructed). The photos/videos I've seen show a baby. A plain ole, big ass baby. Just doing big baby things. But given that I haven't had an infant in close proximity in over 15 years I wondered if perhaps there was something legitimate in the statements I've seen (not confined to just FJ). That perhaps I'm not seeing what others who could potentially be more knowledgeable than I.

[DaysAgo]

There's a discussion on the Anna thread about Cornerstone, the payment processing company for the Dillards. It seems that JB and Josh are both connected to Cornerstone via credit card processing ventures they have created. It seems that Cornerstone works on referrals so if one of them referred Jill and Derick to Cornerstone they (Josh or JB) will get a percentage of all money donated. So while JB abhors the use of credit cards it's perfectly fine for him to profit from other people using them, even to the point of taking money away from ministries to which people contribute.

He abhors credit cards the same way he abhors the TV, but he has no moral difficulty in taking any profit he gets from people using these mediums!

[tapdancer493]

I think most newborns are weird looking. Once they are out of the womb for a few months, they get cuter. Less old-man looking.

I think I'm a sucker for their newness and (usual) tininess. And sometimes the old-man thing is dead on and you're looking at this 7 lb, 20" long child who looks like he's 80 :lol:

[Rescinded and Mended]

Aww, Izzy's so cute here. What a sweet smile. :)

[goldfishgoddess]

I don't think these comments were terrible and given what we know about autism I think its reasonable to discuss what signs someone should look for at that age. I thought people were being legitimately inquisitive and reasonable but this turned into a full on hate on for the posters about how terrible they are and how dare they bring up autism. I don't think they were saying Izzy should be diagnosed but really legitimately asking why someone would think that. Maybe not done in the most respectful manner but hardly the terrible awful comments that people made it seem.

I have two children with autism and have worked for the National Autism Society.

1. You don't know what you are talking about. You aren't being "reasonable" or "legitimate" or any of that good stuff. Repetitive, pedantic speech is usually a hallmark of verbal persons with autism, so perhaps you should look in the mirror first while you have your diagnostic cap on.

2. Israel looks like a perfectly normal, happy baby to me.

[formergothardite]

This thread made me go look at pictures and videos of Izzy. Apparently I can't find the "he isn't acting normal" pics and videos because all the ones I see are just of a typical baby.

[latraviata]

I have two children with autism and have worked for the National Autism Society.

1. You don't know what you are talking about. You aren't being "reasonable" or "legitimate" or any of that good stuff. Repetitive, pedantic speech is usually a hallmark of verbal persons with autism, so perhaps you should look in the mirror first while you have your diagnostic cap on.

2. Israel looks like a perfectly normal, happy baby to me.

A severe case of déformation professionnelle /job conditioning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9fo ... ssionnelle

[Snarkle Motion]

I have two children with autism and have worked for the National Autism Society.

1. You don't know what you are talking about. You aren't being "reasonable" or "legitimate" or any of that good stuff. Repetitive, pedantic speech is usually a hallmark of verbal persons with autism, so perhaps you should look in the mirror first while you have your diagnostic cap on.

2. Israel looks like a perfectly normal, happy baby to me.

1) I absolutely believe myself to be autistic spectrum. Never received a formal diagnosis but with everything I know now (and if I ever wanted to get formal evaluation I would but at this point it would not really serve any purpose since intervention should take place early and I'm already attempting to do the therapeutic techniques to help with certain weaknesses so there isn't much point to pay for assessment). I think that's why I cause so much difficulty on this thread. And why I don't think its a hurtful thing to speculate about since I think its extremely common and not a bad thing but something that *should* be examined if someone is showing early signs so that they have the best outcome. I think a problem people face is that there is so much stigma about having a child with autism that no one wants to talk about it and that is actually putting the child at a disadvantage. Autism does not mean someone is stupid as its been implied - I have performed well in school and been a high achiever but it affects social interactions and generally functioning. Aspergers is no longer a formal diagnosis but this idea of high functioning autism is suggested for several people like Bill Gates and many others in silicon valley particularly.

I won't list all my credentials because I've said some stuff about abuse that happened in my family and would not want to make that public knowledge. But I could list the publications I've had scientific journals and the prestigious institutions I've graduated from or worked for. Autism actually is not currently my primary area of interest but it is something I've worked with in the past. I've conducted autism assessments (under supervision of a licensed clinician) and worked in research related to this field.

2) I'm not saying that Izzy is autistic. I was defending people who I felt were commenting about developmental signs in that age group which I thought was a legitimate thing to ask about. I felt this way because I had felt before a few times watching clips that had potentially been concerning based on what I know. These clips are NOT enough to make a diagnosis in any way and I would not claim that or even suggest I think Izzy has autism from these limited clips. But I did think that some of the interactions we've seen were examples (clearly an extremely biased and limited sample) of some things you'd look for when doing an assessment. If you doubt this, I encourage you to read up on the recent research literature or consult with a professional who is trained in early assessment since you seem to be linked into the network.

3) I should say that my own experience as likely having autism is why I think I cause a lot of trouble on boards but also why I am so sensitive about the treatment of others. I think theory of mind (being able to take other people's perspectives - something talked about a lot with autism) is something that does NOT come naturally to me. Which is why I was fortunate to have developed compensatory techniques early on. It has made me very acute and tuned into body language, facial expression, and other cues because I've had to study this to understand people. And its made me very much make taking others perspectives something I need to constantly do and prioritize. Now even if I have that information that doesn't mean I intuitively know how to react appropriately as I need to really think it through instead of acting on instinct as most people do. Which is why my internet comments (also internet is hard because you can't see people) where I say what's on my mind without necessarily putting tons of effort into forethought gets me in trouble and strikes people as off base, offensive, or even "trolling" when that is never my intention.

Why I mention this is because this is why I'm trying to tell people that the board does feel intimidating to new people and it seems that I've seen a lot of people get jumped on for an innocent comment in a way that would scare them off for good. I say this as someone who has learned to really value and emphasize theory of mind of others at all times. I'm not trying to go in to rearrange the furniture as some people used in previous analogies. I'm trying to say "hey, I know you don't ever use the front door and may be unaware but do you realize there is a huge piece of furniture on the outside blocking the entrance?" Which people might say, "yep, that's there for a reason" or "its always been there, get used to it" and that would be fine. But I hear a lot of people saying, "what are you talking about! There is no piece of furniture since I don't remember it being there. The problem is with you people who keep bringing this up!"

[Snarkle Motion]

A severe case of déformation professionnelle /job conditioning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9fo ... ssionnelle

I won't disagree with this! I definitely think I have the equivalent of first year med students (they suddenly become afraid that they have every disease they've learned about since this is what they are studying). My sister has often joked, "you think everyone has autism..." :roll:

[latraviata]

I won't disagree with this! I definitely think I have the equivalent of first year med students (they suddenly become afraid that they have every disease they've learned about since this is what they are studying). My sister has often joked, "you think everyone has autism..." :roll:

God, I am good!!!!!!!!

[blessalessi]

Just that when people point out that this board feels intimidating to first time posters who have lurked for a long time, everyone's response is "you have to understand the culture". Which is fine. Maybe the culture is to be hostile and intimidating to new posters - it definitely is a method of keeping certain people out and I mean this in sincerity when I say that its not necessarily a bad system if that is the goal. I think my frustration is that I legitimately lurked for months and was scared to post - and I'm a pretty assertive, confident person - so I imagine that there are so many people who do not even bother to try and are scared away. You don't hear their opinions which is why I felt I had to be vocal. But maybe that's me seeing something that's not really a problem, its just what I felt and imagined others must have felt and many others who were scared off or don't even bother to participate.

There are lots of reasons new members lurk/don't lurk before posting. I joined up then lurked mostly for a year or more, just because I didn't want to post at first, but I wanted to be able to use the board functions to read updated threads more easily. So despite my 2 year membership I am pretty much a posting newbie.

None of us can genuinely speak "on behalf of" other new posters that we don't know from Adam. We can only speak for ourselves.

As for me, I don't think it is so much that new people are being jumped on, as much as that both new and old people who are saying stupid and offensive stuff are being called out for it because the level of stupid seems to have risen exponentially over the last few months. :shifty-kitty:

I mention this is because this is why I'm trying to tell people that the board does feel intimidating to new people and it seems that I've seen a lot of people get jumped on for an innocent comment in a way that would scare them off for good. I say this as someone who has learned to really value and emphasize theory of mind of others at all times. I'm not trying to go in to rearrange the furniture as some people used in previous analogies. I'm trying to say "hey, I know you don't ever use the front door and may be unaware but do you realize there is a huge piece of furniture on the outside blocking the entrance?" Which people might say, "yep, that's there for a reason" or "its always been there, get used to it" and that would be fine. But I hear a lot of people saying, "what are you talking about! There is no piece of furniture since I don't remember it being there. The problem is with you people who keep bringing this up!"

My perspective is that the front door is well-used and the hallway full of new and old people greeting each other all the time. But as it is crowded, people will probably notice and comment if someone lunges in with a large bag of stupid or a weighty agenda.

[latraviata]

There are lots of reasons new members lurk/don't lurk before posting. I joined up then lurked mostly for a year or more, just because I didn't want to post at first, but I wanted to be able to use the board functions to read updated threads more easily. So despite my 2 year membership I am pretty much a posting newbie.

None of us can genuinely speak "on behalf of" other new posters that we don't know from Adam. We can only speak for ourselves.

As for me, I don't think it is so much that new people are being jumped on, as much as that both new and old people who are saying stupid and offensive stuff are being called out for it because the level of stupid seems to have risen exponentially over the last few months. :shifty-kitty:

When I was new on the board, they chased me like a pack of hyenas because of controversial opinions. Te be honest I couldn't care less. The only mistake I made in the beginning was, I stayed too long to prove my point, it only made it worse. That's how internet fora function, it derails. So dry your tears and be a big girl. Ultimately, we are all anonymous, so why care about people you don't know being 'mean' to you?

[Ali]

I don't just think its the one brief video though that the person was alluding to. I've also wondered if Jill's swaddling of Izzy is because this is what fundies do or if he may actually be fussy unless tightly swaddled. Sensory issues like this are often associated with autism. There are actually a lot of little things that I have found suspect but not enough so to say anything. I was not the one who suggested autism and I'm still not advocating diagnosis. Just that I'm saying as someone who has had some experience and knowledge that its not completely off base, I did not see it as mean or hurtful in intent, and perhaps a legitimate way to discuss early warning signs. No one is saying that Izzy is autistic, just advocating for being aware of these early signs and to point out that yes the most recent research indicates you absolutely want to be looking for them in a 3-month old.

Now is is autistic because he liked to be swaddled? :angry-banghead:

[quiverfullofgreed]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, I am having a hard time keeping up with everything.

Does anyone think the Dillard's might be going to Israel? They named their son Israel, Derick wore an Israel Defense Force t-shirt in the first family picture posted of Israel, and he hashtaged Israel's birth announcement with #standwithisrael.

I thought the South America theory was pretty likely, but I wouldn't consider South America "overseas". When I read Derick's blog post about their "ministry" an ad for tourist trips to Isreal just happened to be displayed on their website, so that is what made me think about it. I refreshed the website and an ad for the book of mormon displayed next, so I am guessing their ads are random.