Kelly Havens from Ohio

[noseybutt]

I admit deep feelings of unease when homemaking (and mothering) is equated with creating an entire world.

(1) It's not that complicated. 

(2) Parents do better in community rather than lost in their own world.

 

[samurai_sarah]

7 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

Seriously.  For the vast majority of people, it was hard physical work from the moment they woke till they collapsed in bed.  Women at home were busy making everything and keeping a constant eye on the fire so it could be used properly for whatever came next.  You don't tend the fire, you don't EAT.

I wonder if it ever occurs to her that if she lived 100-200 years ago, those two little boys would most likely already be dead.  I clean at our town cemetery and I can't tell you how many plots I care for where a couple lost one, two, three babies right in a row, sometimes in 5 years or less.  Premature birth, diphtheria, tuberculosis, typhoid, scarlet fever...ah yes, the wonder of childhood in the olden days.

Add to that that a lot of working class families couldn't afford to have a woman stay at home - it used to be quite a bit of a status symbol for a man, if his wife didn't have to do additional work, other than in their home. And let's not forget the farming women - unless you were rich, you hardly led a charmed life. On top of all the household chores, you weren't exempt from doing "the work of men". Planting, haying, harvesting, while also staying on top of maintaining a large garden and preserving... it was hardly romantic and photogenic.

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by samurai_sarah

[BlondeAgent007]

10 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

 I remember reading little house books and being so glad I wasn’t born back then. I enjoy reading about the past. But that’s it. 

Laura Ingalls whitewashed a lot of the hardships out of her books, from what I have read her life was actually a lot harder than even she cared to share.

7 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

But overall I think Reddit misses the mark on her.

I started this thread because being on her reddit was making me upset.  I don't think the way they rip her to shreds is okay.  I gave up even checking there after a cheap shot involving "firecrotch" and her husband.  

 

7 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Suffice to say: I had to bail from Reddit posts about Kelly long ago, and I recently went to dark on Facebook’s “Fundie Fun Snark” or something like that, because of the plain viciousness over there towards  Kelly.

I’m so glad I have my FJ  folks to come to and discuss without extreme amounts of rancor. I don’t think Kelly deserves that.

She’s odd, she’s probably pretty lonely, and she’s an artist trying to make some kind of statement. She never seems extremely proselytizing if at all, and she expresses her opinions But not really judge mentally to my mind..

I guess I just don’t get the hatred.

Right!  Like I want to talk about her and discuss some of the heavier stuff I see, and some of the lighter stuff that I find funny.  But not with them, not in the mean spirit they do.  It really goes too far.  She has creative talents in both photography and writing, she is involved with her kids.  She cooks every blessed day, from scratch (no tater tot casserole ever at Kelly's).  Her children have adequate space and bedrooms.

But I still think she LARPS Anne of Green Gables, and attaching God to it is what makes it absurd.  Breadmaking was a necessity to keep enough calories in each meal for the right price, not as a hobby practiced to think about God.  SAHM isn't a gold standard everyone should strive for, and needing the money isn't the only reason a mom might want a career.  People in the 1890s would never light a candle in the afternoon next to a window.  I don't even disagree with her all the time.  It's the overall tone that she has all the answers and that she alone has an enlightened path to a Godly life that makes me sarcastic.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, BlondeAgent007 said:

Laura Ingalls whitewashed a lot of the hardships out of her books, from what I have read her life was actually a lot harder than even she cared to share.

I started this thread because being on her reddit was making me upset.  I don't think the way they rip her to shreds is okay.  I gave up even checking there after a cheap shot involving "firecrotch" and her husband.  

 

Right!  Like I want to talk about her and discuss some of the heavier stuff I see, and some of the lighter stuff that I find funny.  But not with them, not in the mean spirit they do.  It really goes too far.  She has creative talents in both photography and writing, she is involved with her kids.  She cooks every blessed day, from scratch (no tater tot casserole ever at Kelly's).  Her children have adequate space and bedrooms.

But I still think she LARPS Anne of Green Gables, and attaching God to it is what makes it absurd.  Breadmaking was a necessity to keep enough calories in each meal for the right price, not as a hobby practiced to think about God.  SAHM isn't a gold standard everyone should strive for, and needing the money isn't the only reason a mom might want a career.  People in the 1890s would never light a candle in the afternoon next to a window.  I don't even disagree with her all the time.  It's the overall tone that she has all the answers and that she alone has an enlightened path to a Godly life that makes me sarcastic.

It’s probably why I don’t snark on her much. I tend to snark on the most self righteous, dangerous, child neglecting, assholes in fundie land. The fundies that actually feed their children, give them adequate attention, and aren’t constantly putting other women down for not being Christian enough won’t get much snark for me. I may just snark on her cosplaying Anne Shirley but that’s about it. 

[indianabones]

My washer and dryer are five feet away from my closet. I can change my thermostat temp with my phone, no matter where I am in the world. If I get sick, I can just call a nurse practitioner and be prescribed antibiotics - and have them delivered to my house! I'll pass on wanting to live in the 1800's.

[danvillebelle]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Laura Ingalls whitewashed a lot of the hardships out of her books, from what I have read her life was actually a lot harder than even she cared to share.

Yes, like their little brother who died in infancy and the stroke Mary had that contributed to her blindness.  And the fact that one of the reasons Pa kept moving was because he kept getting into debt.  Also, that an actual family with a ne'er do well father lived WITH them during The Long Winter.  I'm a huge Laura fan and when I read that it rocked my world.  I would have kicked his sorry ass out into the blizzard.

I've been down a rabbit hole of reading about diphtheria lately (tied in with cemetery history and causes of death in the 1800's) and realized what a bullet she and Almanzo dodged when they survived it.  They could have died so quickly, leaving Rose an orphan.

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, BlondeAgent007 said:

Laura Ingalls whitewashed a lot of the hardships out of her books, from what I have read her life was actually a lot harder than even she cared to share.

My mind is blanking on the name right now, but there is a diary(or a book based off the diary) of a young woman who lived on the prairie at the same time Laura did and her life was not magical at all. It was a brutal existence. People who fantasize about living in the past should be forced to read books like that. 

Whenever I see these sort of social media accounts I always think about how much time it must take to set up these “perfect” scenes. I watched a YouTube video once where a lady showed how much effort goes into creating these enchanting, whimsical, let’s live the simple life content. None of it is simple or conducive to reconnecting with nature or family. 

[MamaJunebug]

42 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Whenever I see these sort of social media accounts I always think about how much time it must take to set up these “perfect” scenes. I watched a YouTube video once where a lady showed how much effort goes into creating these enchanting, whimsical, let’s live the simple life content. None of it is simple or conducive to reconnecting with nature or family.

Remember Victoria magazine? It was fairly popular … in the ‘80s, I think. Beautiful photographs of tablescapes and rooms decorated in pastels, with lacy curtains blowing just-so in the breeze.  
 

I never did figure out its point, but I enjoyed looking at it.  Some fans carped that it didn’t examine life in the Victorian eras. (“Why call it ‘Victoria’ if it doesn’t feature Queen Victoria?”, etc.)  
 

Others, myself included, got bored with the many many photos and previous little text. 
 

At the time I would’ve liked to decorate my home in a similar fashion but working full time and raising kids more or less on my own made the impractical impossible.  
 

But I digress; MY POINT:  I guess to me. Kelly is the 2020s‘ digital Victoria, for better or for worse!!. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by MamaJunebug

[danvillebelle]

8 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Remember Victoria magazine? It was fairly popular … in the ‘80s, I think. Beautiful photographs of tablescapes and rooms decorated in pastels, with lacy curtains blowing just-so in the breeze.  

Victoria was my escape when I was in college (late 80's early 90's).  LOVED it.  I was an English major and I mentally put myself in those photos, lounging about in lace dresses reading Shakespeare, LOL. 🙄

[BlondeAgent007]

14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s probably why I don’t snark on her much. I tend to snark on the most self righteous, dangerous, child neglecting, assholes in fundie land. The fundies that actually feed their children, give them adequate attention, and aren’t constantly putting other women down for not being Christian enough won’t get much snark for me. I may just snark on her cosplaying Anne Shirley but that’s about it. 

I guess for me the more extreme fundies are more horrifying to me.  I can't really make fun of them without feeling like I'm making light of the abuse.  But that's really just me, I don't mind other people doing so, I understand why they do.  

I find some of the fundylite to be more dangerous in some ways, because they are more relatable than people like the Pearls or the Duggars.  Like with Kelly - it may be easy to fall in love with her oldstyle, prairie fashions, but a big reason she wears them is because they make her feel closer to God, and the modesty plays a huge role in that.  

[anachronistic]

I love Victoriana and history in general. I’m currently watching ‘Bramwell’ on BritBox - though I guess that’s more Edwardian since it’s set in 1895 - and I love the scenes in their rich, gorgeous house, and the silk and lace and pearls that Eleanor somehow always ends up performing a bloody surgery in. I love house tours of any historical period. I just don’t want to live there. Kelly annoys me because she seems to think that her any is the best way, and instead of showing people she tells people. But I think I’d get along with her fine in person, unlike JRod, etc. It’d just be uncomfortable as heck for me because I know she’d vote to take away my rights to marry, have healthcare, etc. And she’s bringing up those wonderful boys, who have no real prejudices yet, to think that people like me (queer) are wrong, sinners, etc.

So I apologize if I came across as mean to her in an earlier post. I don’t think of myself as a particularly mean person but fundies, no matter the type, somehow bring out my worst. 

[Katzchen24]

On 4/16/2022 at 12:21 AM, MamaJunebug said:

Suffice to say: I had to bail from Reddit posts about Kelly long ago, and I recently went to dark on Facebook’s “Fundie Fun Snark” or something like that, because of the plain viciousness over there towards  Kelly.

.

.

.

I guess I just don’t get the hatred.

I'm with you. I only have minimal contact with Reddit, and the forums I visit (mostly about crochet, knitting, specific podcasts etc) are generally a lot kinder in spirit. I read a lot in the vegetarian sub because there's lots of great food ideas, but ten minutes in a vegan one and I had to bail because it was so judgmental, angry and unpleasant.

[MamaJunebug]

51 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

ten minutes in a vegan one and I had to bail because it was so judgmental, angry and unpleasant.

Same reaction here!  That was a bunch of ANGRY people (as Jill R would write it)!

[BlondeAgent007]

13 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Same reaction here!  That was a bunch of ANGRY people (as Jill R would write it)!

I find the Vegans(lumping with PETA) to be fighting an uphill endless battle.  They're never going to convert the entire population to vegan or even vegetarianism.  I do fully support their fight to end animal cruelty, but I think their scope is too wide to be effective.  Hence the never-ending anger.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

17 hours ago, BlondeAgent007 said:

I find the Vegans(lumping with PETA) to be fighting an uphill endless battle.  They're never going to convert the entire population to vegan or even vegetarianism.  I do fully support their fight to end animal cruelty, but I think their scope is too wide to be effective.  Hence the never-ending anger.  

I was vegan for years and I have always been the type to push the idea of eating less meat in general. Because I know most people won’t go vegan. So I just think it’s better to share vegan or vegetarian recipes and let people know how it can save money to just make one of their dinners a week vegetarian or vegan. I don't eat a lot of meat now. I never eat certain meats like beef, lamb, or pig. I often eat vegetarian meals. I agree about fighting animal cruelty. But it’s a pointless battle to try and get everyone to be vegan. So maybe try baby steps that will make sense to a lot of people. That’s always been my point of view.

[BlondeAgent007]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I was vegan for years and I have always been the type to push the idea of eating less meat in general. Because I know most people won’t go vegan. So I just think it’s better to share vegan or vegetarian recipes and let people know how it can save money to just make one of their dinners a week vegetarian or vegan. I don't eat a lot of meat now. I never eat certain meats like beef, lamb, or pig. I often eat vegetarian meals. I agree about fighting animal cruelty. But it’s a pointless battle to try and get everyone to be vegan. So maybe try baby steps that will make sense to a lot of people. That’s always been my point of view.

We eat meatless once a week and eat a lot of one-pot, combined foods or casserole type dishes too, where less meat can be used and isn't the focus of the meal, and is used as a flavor component.  I think focusing on making sure meat animals live, until their deaths, cruelty free, in sanitary, safe, and dignified conditions is a cause most people can get behind.  

I buy all my beef and pork in 1/2s and 1/4s from local farms.  I pay a flat rate per pound.  I don't think it's that much more expensive than grocery store prices- I pay about 1.50 more per lb for ground meat or tougher cuts, but save many dollars per lb on the higher end stuff like ribs, steak, and brisket.  It's also already in my freezer waiting to be defrosted.  And the quality is amazing.

I get my milk delivered from a local dairy by a milkman, with glass bottles I return.  Again, I can't even describe the quality difference just from the glass vs plastic/cardboard alone.  I never have to run to the store for milk, or any dairy products, as they deliver those too.  I pay about $2.00 more per gallon of milk.  It's also much more eco-friendly - not just the milk bottles, but the milk only ever has to travel from the dairy directly to me.  No transferring the milk to processing, then shipped to the store, which I have to drive to and bring home.  

Starting meat chickens in our yard this year.  I promised I could take care of them and cook the meat so long as my husband does all the killing and processing.  We eventually want to do our own pigs as well.  I (believe I) can handle eating animals I cared for myself that lived good lives.  If I can't, then I should probably rethink whether or not I should be eating meat at all.

[MamaJunebug]

11 hours ago, BlondeAgent007 said:

I (believe I) can handle eating animals I cared for myself that lived good lives. 

Love this. The eggs I buy are purportedly from chickens that are truly free-range. Some weasel-wordsmithing can sound like “free range” but in actuality are not.  
 

 

[BlondeAgent007]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

Love this. The eggs I buy are purportedly from chickens that are truly free-range. Some weasel-wordsmithing can sound like “free range” but in actuality are not.  
 

 

Both "free range" and "cage free" can be loosely interpreted and abused.  I hate people sometimes.  I have 5 rescue goats in my yard (meaning I have a moral obligation to the sanctuary I adopted them from that they will never be food.  This is good because I am in love with them), and 4 cats in my house.  I absolutely love animals and people who torture them for profit are some special kind of evil.  I think a lot of people do want to eat eggs, dairy and meat that is treated kindly, and taking advantage of that on top of the animal torture.... wow, don't even know what to say.

[Sarcastically spinster]

On 4/18/2022 at 8:57 PM, MamaJunebug said:

The eggs I buy are purportedly from chickens that are truly free-range. Some weasel-wordsmithing can sound like “free range” but in actuality are not.  

Fun fact on this - I knew a family once that farmed, including chickens, in the UK.  Over there for their eggs to be labelled free range, the chickens had to spend a certain amount of time outdoors.  

They actually had to chase their chickens out of the barn to make them spend more time outdoors if they wanted to be able to label the eggs as free range.  Chickens, given a healthy, comfortable barn environment, will naturally tend to prefer the barn over the open air.  Open air is exposed to predators and their instincts say it's dangerous.  A comfortable barn environment is sheltered and safe.  

Since learning that, I definitely tend to opt for cage free, but not necessarily for free range.  I haven't looked at free range requirements for the US, and don't have the same kind of connection to farmers in the US to know how similar it is here, and whether they're needing to alter the natural behavior patterns of chickens to be able to qualify as free range the same way.  

[MamaJunebug]

26 minutes ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

Since learning that, I definitely tend to opt for cage free, but not necessarily for free range. 

I will look up the U.S. requirements! Thank you!!! I do love to eat those early-stage poultry entities - sorry, I’m still amused by some of the terms the radical vegans use to speak as ill as possible about animal products!!  

[BlondeAgent007]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:01 AM, MamaJunebug said:

I will look up the U.S. requirements! Thank you!!! I do love to eat those early-stage poultry entities - sorry, I’m still amused by some of the terms the radical vegans use to speak as ill as possible about animal products!!  

Despite all their rage they are still just a rat in a cage.

Many animals eat other animals, and eggs of other animals.  The Radicals really act like eating flesh was something evil humans invented to be a-holes.  The part I have a problem with is the exploitation, abuse, and torture of prey, which truly was invented by humans as far as I can tell.

I like some vegan dishes and cook to accomodate vegan guests, it's not for me full-time.  I can applaud the dedication of a healthy vegan diet, as it is truly a commitment.  The Radicals though, they're just something else. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by BlondeAgent007

[Topaz]

There’s been lockdowns for birds in the UK recently due to a disease outbreak (can’t remember what). There are now signs up in supermarkets explaining that the eggs aren’t technically free range right now because they all have to be kept indoors. 

[zeebaneighba]

There  is currently an avian influenza outbreak in the US; we may have the same restrictions.

[Howl]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:32 AM, Sarcastically spinster said:

They actually had to chase their chickens out of the barn to make them spend more time outdoors if they wanted to be able to label the eggs as free range.

But when hens lay eggs, they want to sit on them all day! 

My brother has had chickens off and on.  If they weren't laying, they were outside in their safe enclosure in the daytime; everybody went inside the coop at night, safe from nocturnal predators. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

My urban chicken story. Not once but twice I’ve had to let back yard chickens back into their yard in my neighborhood. Both times they were outside their gate looking sad and wanting back in. I was like, “well why did you escape in the first place?” These were two different chickens at two different houses years apart. All I had to do was open the gate to their back yard and the chickens walked right in. I’ve come to the conclusion that chickens are fickle creatures.