Kelly Havens from Ohio

[noseybutt]

On 4/23/2022 at 9:18 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

My urban chicken story. Not once but twice I’ve had to let back yard chickens back into their yard in my neighborhood. Both times they were outside their gate looking sad and wanting back in. I was like, “well why did you escape in the first place?” These were two different chickens at two different houses years apart. All I had to do was open the gate to their back yard and the chickens walked right in. I’ve come to the conclusion that chickens are fickle creatures.

Everything you need to know about chicken psychology:

(1) They are prone to thinking the bugs are bigger on the other side of the fence

(2) But, they are flock creatures and will go to great lengths to return to the flock

(3) Even when they are at the bottom of the pecking order and being terrorized by said flock

(4) A rooster can keep order in the flock and usual does

(5) Until he doesn't

[Caroline]

On 4/15/2022 at 7:57 AM, anjulibai said:

I'd like to visit the past, but I'd want to come back. 

I grew up in a small city in coastal New England.  Older homes were beautifully restored and many are still museums where people can learn about the past.  Evidence of what life was like from its founding as a seaport in the early 1700's was and still is everywhere.  I loved walking around the very safe streets as a child imagining the past and wishing I could just spend a few hours seeing things the way they really were before cars, modern roads, etc.  But I always wanted to come back!  

As a child I also wanted to be a tour guide when I grew up because I knew and enjoyed so much about the history of where I lived.  I'm not a tour guide, but I've taken lots and lots of my students on tours of European locales over the years.  I still enjoy showing people around the place where I live and explain its history.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

On 2/12/2022 at 12:01 AM, MamaJunebug said:

I really feel like she’s more to be pitied than scorned. And speaking of Reddit culture (which I don’t like), they often accuse her of racism. I’ve never seen examples of it, but I never read more than a few IG posts at a time.  Anybody got chapter & verse?  TIA. 

u/GingersaurusHex put together this list on a fsu post

 

Spoiler

he thinks that women should not think and be homemakers and baby factories. She made a post about how the safest place for a woman was under the protection of a man. When someone commented "not for me, my husband was abusive", Kelly basically said "Sucks your marriage wasn't godly, I guess."

"I know there are many abusive marriages, and it breaks my heart. The freedom I'm describing is within a marriage founded on God's love."

She posted once about how she wanted her son to grow up to be just like Christopher Columbus, and follow his dreams, and do great things. When someone said "you don't mean the Christopher Columbus that enslaved people and murdered, raped, and tortured, all of which is part of the historical record?" Kelly responded, and this is verbatim

"From what I know of [Christopher Columbus], he was a man who feared the Lord and sought to follow Jesus. There must be a confusion as to what resources are historically accurate. There has been a lot of rewriting history."

She posted a pic of herself holding her baby, likening herself to an escaping slave in a novel (Eliza in Uncle Tom's Cabin, per /u/GayCatDaddy ).

She partnered with (and defended) Girl in Calico, Known White Supremacist. She goes through phases where she'll post pretty explicitly about the "war for history" or stuff like that. The idea of "revolution" and "revival" of "old fashioned" (read: 1800s) values. Or about "Take back the media!"

I found this quote in another old comment of mine about Kelly -- pretty explicitly calling for a Christian Theocracy, brought about by tradwives networking via Instagram:

I want revival. But I don’t just want a revival of biblical living. I want a cultural revolution. And yet I feel a conviction that out of a cultural revolution we will see a true old fashioned Bible revival. It won’t sweep across the nation like it did during the tent revivals of the 1800s. I think this one is going to sweep differently. It’s going to be born out of art, and it will sweep from home to home, and then perhaps spread out into the public sphere. .... Ponder with me… What are some habits or ideals that help us, instead of hindering us, in being who we really are? We need a new constitution…a blue print for the gentle shepherd’s city amidst the stormy modern world.

She's just as into biblical gender roles and patriarchal (white) supremacy as Lori (she's even read and recommends Lori's Biblical Womanhood book), she just couches it in uwu quirky white girl!! And she is a good photographer, so she makes her stuff look more appealing, but in my opinion that makes it all the more toxic.

She was actually pictured in an article about "the white supremacist tradwives on instagram."

She also thinks she's the only real person in the world -- that no one else thinks deep thoughts like her or has deep emotions like her. And that extends to her children, which is going to become a bigger issue as they age out of toddlerhood. She's made multiple posts about how she's carried away in some histrionic rapture -- weeping over the white purity of a tree, or whatever -- and her child tries to comfort her. She thinks these are cute stories, but they fuckin' disturb me, because her kid is just learning that Mommy is Unstable and they have to be the one to have their shit together.

I could go on, but yeah. She's just as bad as Mrs. Midwest or Lori, and just as cringe as Bethany, and as self-righteous as Porgan, she just wraps it up in a cute cottagecore package.

Edit: I now have access to some notes I'd previously made on why Kelly was Problematic, so I'm going to add some stuff I forgot. I once had ambitions of making a Kelly masterpost, but as I was collecting evidence I began to doubt myself. Is she really so bad? Or am I just digging and reading into stuff? When I review the screenshots now, I'm like "oh, wow! This is all worse than I remember!" -- I share this as an illustrative example of how Kelly is dangerous. She can tell you to submit to your husband and raise soldiers for Jesus, and you are like "ok, but is it so bad that she says that, though? I mean, look how cozy her life is!"

Oh! I totally forgot this one! She posted once about the world being 2,000 years old. She was roundly mocked. She posted a correction that said "When I said the earth was 2,000 years old, I meant roughly 6,000!"

There's links to a couple of other posts about her in the thread.

[MamaJunebug]

Informative, @Seahorse Wrangler! Thank you. 

[formergothardite]

9 hours ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

From what I know of [Christopher Columbus], he was a man who feared the Lord and sought to follow Jesus. There must be a confusion as to what resources are historically accurate. There has been a lot of rewriting history."

Thank you for sharing this. I get a lot of us were raised with a fake and white washed version of Columbus, but today it is very easy to find information regarding his personal letters which show him to be a monster. 
 

Behind her beautiful, “simple” lifestyle social media it sounds like Kelly is just as racist and hateful as most of the other fundies we discuss. 

[anjulibai]

Yeah, I have read Columbus's writings, he is very open about the savagery he and the men under his command committed. There is no rewriting. 

Interesting enough, most of our myths about Columbus (like that he was trying to prove the Earth was round) are from the 1800s.

[JermajestyDuggar]

It’s too bad she’s such a racist moron. 

[Hane]

6 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Yeah, I have read Columbus's writings, he is very open about the savagery he and the men under his command committed. There is no rewriting. 

Interesting enough, most of our myths about Columbus (like that he was trying to prove the Earth was round) are from the 1800s.

I’ve read that much of the celebratory “history” about Columbus is the result of “The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus,” by Washington Irving. Italian-Americans glommed onto this Columbus-as-hero thing as a way of improving their image as American citizens—hence Columbus Day. (Note: My maternal side came from Genoa, his home town.)

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

Her parents are pretty secular. I think they would have gotten her help if she needed it before she was married.

I chalk Kelly up to 'crazy things we do for the D.' 

 

 

[MamaJunebug]

5 hours ago, GracieLou Free Duggar said:

I chalk Kelly up to 'crazy things we do for the D.' 

This sounds funny but I’m not sure why. Is “the D” … “the Dollar”?  Yes I’m PARTICULARLY dense tonight. Thank you for your patience! 

[indianabones]

2 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

This sounds funny but I’m not sure why. Is “the D” … “the Dollar”?  Yes I’m PARTICULARLY dense tonight. Thank you for your patience! 

Nope, it means dick!

[MamaJunebug]

8 hours ago, indianabones said:

Nope, it means dick!

LMEmbarrassedBottomO!!!

i did look it up, found “dick,” snd wondered how much obtuse-ity I can muster up in these, my final years!    

I’ll say this about Kelly and then try to nope out if further discussion (not because I don’t like y’all, just because as the days dwindle down to a precious few hundred, I’ve GOT to manage my Fundie-commentary habit):

I first identified with, and felt maternal toward, Kelly’s apparent social awkwardness. That was me, about 30 years ago. BIG DIFFERENCE: I channeled my otherness for the good, and not for divisiveness snd conflict, as K has been shown to do. 
 

Carry on, my marmees - I’m always lurking round!! 

[BlondeAgent007]

I also wonder how in the world she and her husband got together.  He doesn't seem featured much in her posts, and I learned recently that she spends every weekend at her adopted mother "Marmee's" house.  She sleeps there, leaving the kids presumably with her husband.  As horrible as some of the other fundies are, you can see how they got there.  Michelle was smitten with JBob, and he with her.  Jill is smitten with David as well, always building him up into a man he isn't, while he just glides along and follows her program.  I get the impression Zsu was swept by Steve, and he of course hopped on the first woman that was willing to stay despite the shit spewing from his mouth.  Kelly talks very little about her husband, he isn't featured much on her blog, and it sounds like the time they could see each other on weekends she spends having sleepovers with a lady twice her age.

Edited May 2, 2022 by BlondeAgent007

[fundiewatch]

How did you learn this? I can’t wrap my head around that! 

[BlondeAgent007]

12 hours ago, fundiewatch said:

 

12 hours ago, fundiewatch said:

How did you learn this? I can’t wrap my head around that! 

I went back on reddit like I said I wouldn't.  I wanted more information on Marmee, because it was becoming more and more obvious to me that Marmee was not her biological mother.  I had read about Marmee a few times, but then I read a post talking about her family and her mom and she didn't call her that. Someone has been listening to her podcasts (I haven't gone there yet) and has probably read more posts than I have, who gave a pretty good run down.  I was going to screenshot it and I didn't.   I did find a picture of her with a picnic basket packed for Marmee's overnight so that I have confirmed myself.

[BlondeAgent007]

As an aside, can someone explain the "rufus bless" reaction?  I'm never really quite sure how to take it.  I remember it being tossed around in my day but nothing specific

[Giraffe]

2 hours ago, BlondeAgent007 said:

As an aside, can someone explain the "rufus bless" reaction?  I'm never really quite sure how to take it.  I remember it being tossed around in my day but nothing specific

The positive/negative/neutral I don't think is 100% accurate anymore but the thread is a good place to start. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Giraffe
clarifying

[JermajestyDuggar]

I usually use “Rufus bless” as “bless that fundie mess.”

[PopRox]

I have been having some WEIRD dreams lately (thank you, meds + current stress level) and I had a dream where I met Kelly. Or, someone similar to her? Looked/dressed like her and used the same flowery, spiritual language... but instead of making skirts and aprons, she was teaching me how to knit? And that wasn't even the weirdest dream I've had recently...

[JermajestyDuggar]

30 minutes ago, PopRox said:

I have been having some WEIRD dreams lately (thank you, meds + current stress level) and I had a dream where I met Kelly. Or, someone similar to her? Looked/dressed like her and used the same flowery, spiritual language... but instead of making skirts and aprons, she was teaching me how to knit? And that wasn't even the weirdest dream I've had recently...

I’ve had many many dreams where I’ve met fundies. More than I can count. It usually goes like this: I accidentally come across them somewhere. Like a public space or a party. And I initially try to avoid them. But they somehow suck me into talking to them. I get super anxious because I don’t know how to interact with people with beliefs I despise. I’m uncomfortable but try to be polite. I’m usually nice to the kids because I feel sorry for them. And then I think to myself, I have to go tell FJ I ran into fundies. And that’s the end. 

[BlondeAgent007]

I just can't with her.  The picture is cute and all.  But the claim within her instastory (2nd photo) and the post is that she went out for a run and to collect the yellow flowers.  She came back and changed into a nightgown and THEN noticed her husband asleep with his bible and took the photo.  Nevermind the candle is nowhere near close enough to read from.  Or the very obvious shadows from the heavy light source shining from the direction her supposedly sleeping husband is facing.  Even if he was sleeping she had to set up the camera and take the photo, which makes it not candid.  Are we supposed to believe a very young child hopped out of bed as well to snap a photo of his parents?  Don't most flowers close at night outside, making it a poor time to pick flowers?  The dandelion field that is my lawn starts to close up quite a bit once the sun starts to set.

[MamaJunebug]

10 hours ago, BlondeAgent007 said:

I just can't with her.  The picture is cute and all.  But the claim within her instastory (2nd photo) and the post is that she went out for a run and to collect the yellow flowers.  She came back and changed into a nightgown and THEN noticed her husband asleep with his bible and took the photo.  Nevermind the candle is nowhere near close enough to read from.  Or the very obvious shadows from the heavy light source shining from the direction her supposedly sleeping husband is facing.  Even if he was sleeping she had to set up the camera and take the photo, which makes it not candid.  Are we supposed to believe a very young child hopped out of bed as well to snap a photo of his parents?  Don't most flowers close at night outside, making it a poor time to pick flowers?  The dandelion field that is my lawn starts to close up quite a bit once the sun starts to set.

Just want to give you all the gold stars for your dandelion field of a yard!  You’re doing so much for our bee friends, and thereby ERR’BODY On Earth!!! 
 

I'm giving very serious thought to sowing clover along with wildflower seeds. 

[BlondeAgent007]

3 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Just want to give you all the gold stars for your dandelion field of a yard!  You’re doing so much for our bee friends, and thereby ERR’BODY On Earth!!! 
 

I'm giving very serious thought to sowing clover along with wildflower seeds. 

Thanks!  We have about an acre and both neighbors own at least 5 each.  Nobody sprays their lawns, and we only get the perimeter of the house sprayed because we had so many box elders they were taking over one side of the house.  Sometimes I think a manicured lawn or zero mosquitos would be nice.  But I got goats to clear brush and they love dandelions, and we get thousands of fireflies out back in the summer at night.  So, I bug spray the humans and make dandy crowns with Tiny Agent

Edited May 9, 2022 by BlondeAgent007

[danvillebelle]

Our lawn is covered with all kinds of wonderful things...dandelions, oxalis, dead nettle, some little starry blue and white flowers I don't know the name of...my husband would like for it to be green and perfect, but I put my foot down and reminded him green perfect lawns mean dead ecosystems.  He can mow it, that's it.  Now he carefully mows around the pink oxalis for me.

And if you believe that picture of Kelly and her headship is candid, I have some oceanfront property in AZ for sale.  Hit me up.

ETA:  there is an underlying current in her posts and ramblings that gives me an uneasy feeling.  She does not seem grounded in reality to me; her fantasy world has become her reality.  Don't get me wrong - I think indulgence in fantasy and other worlds through books, films and music is part of what makes life grand.  Occasionally, I completely hang out in the 70's for a day and it brings me a lot of comfort.  But I don't post on my social media as if it ACTUALLY IS the 70's (while incongruously using a cell phone to do so).  Her comments about her small children saying she wants to be alone and running away from them every weekend is also troubling.  I think if reality breaks in on her pretty little fantasy world someday, like a major illness that requires hospitalization or financial straits that cause her to have to give up her playland, it's not going to go well for her mentally.

Edited May 9, 2022 by danvillebelle

[BlondeAgent007]

@danvillebelle, I don't believe things are going well for her mentally as it is, honestly.  Her posts, to me, read like she is trying to convince herself and others to believe in this world she creates, where she is idyllic and happy and living a life that resembles the past (it doesn't, there is a far cry between Kelly and the Amish, who are much more rooted in the past than she).

I think the persona and the fabrication do give her a kind of false confidence.  Not completely unlike the false confidence boost people get from only posting heavily filtered/edited photos of themselves on the internet.  They get happiness from the praise they receive online, but their real face in the real mirror doesn't ever look like the edited photos.  Therefore, the underlying insecurity and depression deepens even as positive reactions increase because the "real" them is never seen or praised.  Does that make sense?  I know sometimes I talk in circles.

Edited May 9, 2022 by BlondeAgent007