Grandma Mary

[Lillymuffin]

Thank you @Gossamer1. I almost deleted it before I posted, but writing it was cathartic, so I left it. 

[Chocolatedefrauded]

I relate to so much everyone is saying here. My parents are in their early 80s & my mom's been hospitalized several times lately, almost dying each time. We get a call either afterwards describing what happened or being told that we should get to the hospital to say goodbye. each time she fights back within a few weeks with a little loss of skills or mobility.

A friend tells a funny/sad story about a 95 y.o.grandfather who was senile. He told his daughters he would only eat donuts & only on 2 days of the week. One daughter got very upset, insisting he had to eat proper every day. The other daughter said to let him eat what he wants & if he asks, tell him it was one of those 2 days.

 

[Bad Wolf]

My friend's mom is 98, and just recently went into care. When my friend was visiting, she said, life is....and stopped. My friend encouraged her, figuring her mom would have something really profound to say. Finally, she said, life is....a buggar. Perfect. 

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

4 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

With dementia I've been told it's always better not to directly contradict them if at all possible.  When my step-father asked for a map so he could escape, I didn't try to be rational with him.  I told him I'd have to find one, print it out, and mail it to him.  I knew he'd have forgotten by the next day.  So about visiting the house, you'd find a statement like we're working on that, when the doctor says it's OK, or something like that.  My mother is always asking when she gets to leave the facility.  I was told to tell her she had to stay until.....  I picked she has to stay until the doctor says she can leave.  He never will but telling her that would only serve to depress or upset her. 

My mother is very sure step-dad was buried back east.  His ashes are in my closet.  She will never be told that.  Honesty is not always best. 

Totally with you on the honesty policy when dealing with people with dementia, and mostly have been following this.  We tell my Uncle that we cant take him out in the car until he is strong enough to walk unaided up and down the hallway and can climb stairs (no actual chance of thus happening)  which he seems to feel is reasonable.  The doctor gets the blame for other things. Some things he has accepted a simple statement like, "I know you want to X,  I wish you could too, but it isn't possible right now. "  And of course, sometimes just changing the subject/distracting him is enough to get out of a difficult conversation.

I do try to tell him the truth when possible, but the dementia means that he doesn't have the perspective anymore to understand why certain things have to be the way they are, só there are many many things that he can not be told about.  

The unfortunate truth is that he is losing control over a great many things in his life and I can completely understand why that is upsetting. Much kinder to just quietly do what needs to be done and leave him out of it.  He asks me about various things in his house and I just tell him I will have a look the next time we go there. 

It was most certainly NOT my choice to try to tell my Uncle about the need to sell his house.  In my opinion  to bring up yet another thing that he has no control over and  expect him to be ok with it is not kind. My Dad, unfortunately, just couldn't get that through his head and tried to tell my Uncle. He didn't get very far before my Uncle got mega upset (duh) so my Dad had to back off. Sometimes my Dad is a fucking moron.  

 

The ashes in the closet thing made me laugh though.  Years ago I had a simmer job for a home care agency.  One of the old ladies was a major hoarder, so they sent in a junk removal crew to dig out the piles of trash in her living room.  One guy went to take out a plastic grocery bag full of what he thought was fireplace ashes.  Old lady nearly had a fit trying to stop him before he got to the dumpster because it was her husband's ashes.  (Not saying you have ashes in a garbage bag, BTW,  assuming some sort of urn or packaging)

 

[theinvisiblegirl]

My grandmother is 77 and has been diabetic for the last 55+ years (maybe even 60, I'm not sure). She was always more sickly than my grandfather, even though he had the worse heart condition, so it was a surprise to all of us that he went first, and very suddenly a month after an operation that we were told would improve his quality of life. He did everything for my grandmother - didn't let her pay the bills because he told her he would handle it, never said no to her when she spent and spent and spent. Knowing how she is now, though, I wonder if he used to say no in the beginning and she would get so angry that he decided to always say yes, to apply "happy wife happy life" to his own life. She can't afford to stay in her house. It's financially ruining her. But she refuses to consider moving. I don't know what's going to happen.

It's been 2 and a half years since he died, and 3 since my grandmother fell and shattered her elbow at church. They put in an elbow replacement, then sent her off to a nursing home to recover. Two weeks later, she was back in the hospital with a very serious infection that required four more operations. A month to the day after my grandfather died (8 months after her fall), the elbow became infected again, and her doctor removed the replacement. So she hasn't had one in a very long time (so no elbow joint, which means her arm kind of just dangled with scar tissue acting as a pseudo-joint), and she's been in pain, so now she's having another put in on Saturday. I think it's a very bad idea, but she gets mad when I try to explain the reasoning. I don't want anything to happen to her, and I have a feeling that an infection may set in.

She wants to drive again, but no one thinks she should. They haven't taken the keys from her, and there are plans for me to buy the car from her when I get my license, but she's hinted that she might want to share the car with me. I think that's a horrible idea. What with my mother, her neighbor, and her friends willing to drive her places, what does she need to drive for? I get the independence factor, but there comes a time where enough is enough.

My mother... My poor mother. She does all the work. My aunt doesn't do much of anything and doesn't come around much. Granted, I understand why that is. My grandmother can be a bit... I don't know if she's emotionally abusive?  Or if she's just high maintenance. She's called my mother (who does everything for this woman short of wiping her ass for her) a piece of shit because she didn't want to have a Memorial Day picnic. But I can't help but want my aunt to just suck it up and do more. I don't wish emotional abuse on anyone, but my mother takes the brunt of it, and there's only so much that a person can take. I think my mom is getting to the limit. She won't go see a therapist, so I told her to go sign up for the forums on care.com because maybe connecting with other caregivers will help her talk it out.

I feel like all of this is so poorly worded and structured. As a writer, I'm ashamed, but I kind of just dumped some words into the post as fast as I possibly could because if I think about it all for too much longer I think I may start crying.

[MarblesMom]

6 minutes ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

The ashes in the closet thing made me laugh though.

Oh gosh the ashes!

Mom kept Dad in a box on a bookshelf until her death (when Mr MM and BIL divided Dad into a baggie for each sibling).  When I would visit Mom, I'd walk in and turn to the bookshelf and say "Hi, Dad!"  He finally got a resting place in a bayou.

Mom was put into the angry Atlantic and blew back in our faces.  Sigh.

I have heard many, many stories from people who drop ashes in the water rides at Disney parks.

 

[BabyFullOfSin]

5 hours ago, Lillymuffin said:

Snip..

 There's more, but I've shamed my family enough.

I wanted to just bold this section of your post but my incompetence is showing. This sentence stood out to me. 

I hope you already know this, but your grandfather owns this shame. Not you and not your family. 

[EmCatlyn]

39 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

My grandmother is 77 and has been diabetic for the last 55+ years (maybe even 60, I'm not sure). She was always more sickly than my grandfather, even though he had the worse heart condition, so it was a surprise to all of us that he went first, and very suddenly a month after an operation that we were told would improve his quality of life. He did everything for my grandmother - didn't let her pay the bills because he told her he would handle it, never said no to her when she spent and spent and spent. Knowing how she is now, though, I wonder if he used to say no in the beginning and she would get so angry that he decided to always say yes, to apply "happy wife happy life" to his own life. She can't afford to stay in her house. It's financially ruining her. But she refuses to consider moving. I don't know what's going to happen.

It's been 2 and a half years since he died, and 3 since my grandmother fell and shattered her elbow at church. They put in an elbow replacement, then sent her off to a nursing home to recover. Two weeks later, she was back in the hospital with a very serious infection that required four more operations. A month to the day after my grandfather died (8 months after her fall), the elbow became infected again, and her doctor removed the replacement. So she hasn't had one in a very long time (so no elbow joint, which means her arm kind of just dangled with scar tissue acting as a pseudo-joint), and she's been in pain, so now she's having another put in on Saturday. I think it's a very bad idea, but she gets mad when I try to explain the reasoning. I don't want anything to happen to her, and I have a feeling that an infection may set in.

She wants to drive again, but no one thinks she should. They haven't taken the keys from her, and there are plans for me to buy the car from her when I get my license, but she's hinted that she might want to share the car with me. I think that's a horrible idea. What with my mother, her neighbor, and her friends willing to drive her places, what does she need to drive for? I get the independence factor, but there comes a time where enough is enough.

My mother... My poor mother. She does all the work. My aunt doesn't do much of anything and doesn't come around much. Granted, I understand why that is. My grandmother can be a bit... I don't know if she's emotionally abusive?  Or if she's just high maintenance. She's called my mother (who does everything for this woman short of wiping her ass for her) a piece of shit because she didn't want to have a Memorial Day picnic. But I can't help but want my aunt to just suck it up and do more. I don't wish emotional abuse on anyone, but my mother takes the brunt of it, and there's only so much that a person can take. I think my mom is getting to the limit. She won't go see a therapist, so I told her to go sign up for the forums on care.com because maybe connecting with other caregivers will help her talk it out.

I feel like all of this is so poorly worded and structured. As a writer, I'm ashamed, but I kind of just dumped some words into the post as fast as I possibly could because if I think about it all for too much longer I think I may start crying.

I started what was going to be a long reply because I have been in your shoes, and then in your mother's shoes, and 10-20 years from now I may be in your grandmother's shoes.

But my details aren't important. What matters is that you are not alone. You and your mother, and all of us here who are talking about caring for the elderly, are part of a life experience as fundamental as having babies or raising children--just not as intrinsically pleasurable.

Whether our old folks are cared for at home or in some institution, if we love them, we hurt.  We watch them fade, lose themselves, burden others.  Most of them are a little irrational, driven by their idea of what they were rather than what they are.

It is hard for the "frontline caregiver" as your mom seems to be. And she is lucky if she can sometimes vent to you and that you are there to encourage her to get support.  It will be okay in the end.

 You sounded like you needed a hug.

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

I read @theinvisiblegirl's post and wanted to think about it a bit before I tried to reply. So glad I waited because @EmCatlyn said it so much better.  

 

[Lillymuffin]

@theinvisiblegirl I suggest a group hug for all of us. 

I'd say it gets easier, but it might not. You will, however, get through it, and if you ever need an ear, there are plenty here, including mine, to listen. 

[RosyDaisy]

It's nice for you that you apparently don't have sex abusers, child molesters, emotional vampires, or other kinds of abusers in your family tree.

Sometimes you have to disown people, sad though the thought may be, either openly or quietly, for the sake of breaking the cycle of abuse, for your own safety or the safety of your children and spouse.

My post has hit a nerve, and I'm sorry. I really need to think before I post. Anybody have a tool I borrow to remove my head from my ass?

[Percy]

 I am relating to a lot of this, both as a daughter who lives 800 km away from her mother and as a nurse.  Thankfully I have a wonderful SIL who solves all of the families woes and lives 30 minutes from Mum.

The ashes saga is another thing. Dad's ashes sit on the bar at Mum's house waiting to be scattered.  (He died 30 years ago, you can't hurry these things).  Dad's younger brother passed away earlier this year and sits on our 'memories ' table in our living room.

Before Uncle passed away we discussed his ashes.  I reminded Uncle that we had not scattered Dad yet and did he want to be scattered with Dad.  We held an in depth discussion about where Dad wanted to be scattered (off a jetty in South Australia).  Uncle ( Bondi Beach dweller) commented on how cold the water would be. I had to laugh and remind him that he was going to be fish food if we scattered him with Dad.  Uncle enjoyed the irony of his ashes feeding the King George whiting my brothers would then fish for when on holidays.

Wonderful SIL is organising a weekend soon when we can scatter both brothers together followed by a meal with family celebrating their favourite foods.

Looking forward to it all.

[Gobbles]

Just now, RosyDaisy said:

I really need to think before I post.

Maybe, but I'm totally with you. For me it is family before anyone else too. Family for me stops after my parents, I don't have many relatives. (Which is horrible!) But the family is for me even a criteria in finding a partner. If she would have no good relationship with her parents than that is a no-go for me, like smoking or something like that. Most people don't understand that, but for ME that is very important.

As for ashes: Is cremation that popular in the US? In my extended family cremation is uncommon. I can't stand the thought of someone I love being burned like a piece of wood. (I know being buried in the earth is not that much better, but I grew up with that being normal.) Many people here choose cremation because it is a bit cheaper. Or because they don't want to care for a grave. Keeping your ashes at home is illegal here. You can scatter them I think, but not sure if there are restrictions on that as well. 

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

My post has hit a nerve, and I'm sorry. I really need to think before I post. Anybody have a tool I borrow to remove my head from my ass?

Don't feel bad. I think it's clear you didn't mean any harm or to upset anyone. And I'm always glad to hear that not everyone has been faced with a situation where they've had to consider cutting a family member out of your life. It's a good reminder that not all families are messed up.

1 hour ago, Gobbles said:

Maybe, but I'm totally with you. For me it is family before anyone else too. Family for me stops after my parents, I don't have many relatives. (Which is horrible!) But the family is for me even a criteria in finding a partner. If she would have no good relationship with her parents than that is a no-go for me, like smoking or something like that. Most people don't understand that, but for ME that is very important.

As for ashes: Is cremation that popular in the US? In my extended family cremation is uncommon. I can't stand the thought of someone I love being burned like a piece of wood. (I know being buried in the earth is not that much better, but I grew up with that being normal.) Many people here choose cremation because it is a bit cheaper. Or because they don't want to care for a grave. Keeping your ashes at home is illegal here. You can scatter them I think, but not sure if there are restrictions on that as well. 

I'm not sure what's more popular. I know my grandpa and step-grandpa (both dad's side) were cremated - grandpa was scattered over the Atlantic by a Navy ship (he served during World War 2.) My husband's paternal grandparents were cremated as well. Most of my family was buried though.

I think when I go I'd prefer cremation personally. I don't like the thought of being buried.

[Ungodly Grandma]

9 hours ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

My mother... My poor mother. She does all the work. My aunt doesn't do much of anything and doesn't come around much. Granted, I understand why that is. My grandmother can be a bit... I don't know if she's emotionally abusive?  Or if she's just high maintenance. She's called my mother (who does everything for this woman short of wiping her ass for her) a piece of shit because she didn't want to have a Memorial Day picnic. But I can't help but want my aunt to just suck it up and do more. I don't wish emotional abuse on anyone, but my mother takes the brunt of it, and there's only so much that a person can take. I think my mom is getting to the limit. She won't go see a therapist, so I told her to go sign up for the forums on care.com because maybe connecting with other caregivers will help her talk it out.

I feel like all of this is so poorly worded and structured. As a writer, I'm ashamed, but I kind of just dumped some words into the post as fast as I possibly could because if I think about it all for too much longer I think I may start crying.

This put tears in my eyes. I have been in your mother's shoes, well I still am. I don't have a partner or a sibling, it has been a long hard road. My kids are good, but busy with their own families and careers.

I guess what I want to say is, I wish one of my three had your empathy.  At least you realize what your mother is going through, that's a great gift to her.  

[Gossamer1]

34 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I think when I go I'd prefer cremation personally. I don't like the thought of being buried.

I don't like the idea of being burned either but the thought of taking up space forever in an already overburdened planet doesn't sit well with me. I've stated my preference for cremation to those who need to know.

[Fundie Bunny]

13 minutes ago, Gossamer1 said:

I don't like the idea of being burned either but the thought of taking up space forever in an already overburdened planet doesn't sit well with me. I've stated my preference for cremation to those who need to know.

Actually, it's not forever. Only from 50 to 100 years. 

[Lillymuffin]

Both of my parents want to be cremated, and while the thought freaks me out, I'll honor their wishes when the time comes. I don't really like any of the options for myself, but when I'm in an enfant terrible mood, I tell my mom I want to be stuffed and sit in a corner of her living room. Strangely, she doesn't like that.  

[EmmieJ]

9 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

My post has hit a nerve, and I'm sorry. I really need to think before I post. Anybody have a tool I borrow to remove my head from my ass?

I appreciate that you read the criticism about your comment and instead of getting defensive, you responded graciously.  I have found an old-fashioned shoe horn can sometimes do the trick.

[lizzybee]

decided not to share this afterall

[MoonFace]

My aunt (the youngest in a family of 7) took care of her mother and  physically/mentally sister since her later teen years.   Her brother, the eldest, wanted to put my aunt in an institution and my grandmother in a nursing home, where they'd be 'better off'.   One sister supported him in this completely. (the other brother had died and my mother and other aunt were useless in helping)  They were both embarrassed by them and the rest of their siblings.    
 

She had promised herself that my grandmother would never be put in a nursing home and my aunt never institutionalized as long as she could make sure they were taken care of.    One of my cousins was going crazy at her mother's so went to live with my grandmother and handicapped aunt.   My aunt made her an offer and told her she could back out at any time.   She bought a house, using her own money to buy the house and money from my grandmother's and aunt's social security to pay the bills (insurance, heat, electricity, groceries) and my cousin could live there and supervise them (my aunt had aids come in during the day, and later at night when my grandmother needed it) do the grocery shopping and help with the laundry in return for a place to live.   My cousin had her full time job and her social life.   

The problem came in when my grandmother and then my aunt died and the brother who had  bowed out years ago told my cousin that my aunt should GIVE her the house for compensation for having taken care of them all those years.   My cousin thought this was reasonable.    After my aunt paid off the mortgage when the house was sold there was less than $20,000 left.   My aunt told my cousin she could have all the furnishings to do as she wished.  (Oh, she lived there paying $350/mo rent for three years after my aunt died before the house sold - in Staten ISland NY - where are you going to get a 2 bedroom house to rent in NY for that price? ) My cousin never spoke to my aunt again because she felt she was 'owed'. 

What a mess.    

But my aunt felt she did the best she could on her own for her mother and sister.   



   

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, Gobbles said:

Maybe, but I'm totally with you. For me it is family before anyone else too. Family for me stops after my parents, I don't have many relatives. (Which is horrible!) But the family is for me even a criteria in finding a partner. If she would have no good relationship with her parents than that is a no-go for me, like smoking or something like that. Most people don't understand that, but for ME that is very important.

As for ashes: Is cremation that popular in the US? In my extended family cremation is uncommon. I can't stand the thought of someone I love being burned like a piece of wood. (I know being buried in the earth is not that much better, but I grew up with that being normal.) Many people here choose cremation because it is a bit cheaper. Or because they don't want to care for a grave. Keeping your ashes at home is illegal here. You can scatter them I think, but not sure if there are restrictions on that as well. 

In the parts of the South of the US where I have lived or have connections, cremation is accepted as an option. While people may keep the ashes on a shelf or scatter them (you need permission to scatter them in most cases) a lot of us have the ashes placed in a columbarium, a room or structure with small cabinet-like spaces for the urns containing the ashes.  You can find a columbarium in some churches and most cemetaries these days.

An advantage of the church columbaria for some people is they can visit the loved one's place of rest without having to drive outside the city where most of the "still active" cemetaries are found. Other people place the ashes in family mausoleums or crypts.  Or in some cemeteries you can set up benches or monuments that have niches for ashes inside.  I also know of several cases where the ashes were buried in the ground, in a regular grave plot which was shared by other family members.  In one of these cases, the body was cremated against the family's wishes, because the deceased had died of an infectious disease.

Cremation in many states requires more paperwork than just burial because they want autopsies and a certificate signed by two doctors.  This is to prevent people who would cremate a body to conceal a crime.  Because of this added layer of paperwork and/or because families don't like the idea of autopsies, or just out of habit, here in the South a lot of people opt for full body burial.  It is more expensive than cremation here also.

My parents are together in the same niche in a columbarium by a little lake.  It is a beautiful setting and much less depressing to me as a visitor than the rows of plots with grave stones. 

[Coconut Flan]

18 hours ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

 (Not saying you have ashes in a garbage bag, BTW,  assuming some sort of urn or packaging)

They're exactly as the mortuary doubled boxed and wrapped them.  The box is even still properly labeled.  

[MoonFace]

48 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

In the parts of the South of the US where I have lived or have connections, cremation is accepted as an option. While people may keep the ashes on a shelf or scatter them (you need permission to scatter them in most cases) a lot of us have the ashes placed in a columbarium, a room or structure with small cabinet-like spaces for the urns containing the ashes.  You can find a columbarium in some churches and most cemetaries these days.

SNIPPED the rest of the post

Mr Moonface and I thought about moving to the southeast upon retirement.   I thought we could open up Bubba Moonface's BBQ pit and crematorium.   Seemed that if you were going to do some cooking.................   But the fire would be too hot for one thing and not hot enough for the other.......... le sigh.........

[Lillymuffin]

Just as a PSA, if anyone has a relative's ashes that they plan to scatter at a future date, it's best to store them in a moisture-and temperature-controlled place. (NOT an attic or a basement.) Speaking from experience here.