All THINGS DILLARD - Part 3

[singsingsing]

Oh, they forgive homosexuals as long as they stop being homosexual and repent of their evil ways. It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you beg Jesus for forgiveness. Then not only are you good to go, you've got a great testimony to brag about share.

[CaptainFunderpants]

Oh, they forgive homosexuals as long as they stop being homosexual and repent of their evil ways. It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you beg Jesus for forgiveness. Then not only are you good to go, you've got a great testimony to brag about share.

Wipes away santorum. Sorry Jesus! :kiss-ass:

There, all forgiven!

[RosyDaisy]

I see Jessa staying fundie. She was raised ATI, and Ben was raised VF. That's a powerful fundie combination. I see Jill and Derick gradually becoming fundie lite. I can see Derick wanting Izzy to be a 3rd generation Pistol Pete.

I don't know what will happen to Josiah and Marjorie. My guess would be that in a few months they will call off the courtship. I also don't see Joseph staying at Crown College or any Duggar/Bates courtships.

The Duggars, Dillards, and Seewalds need to accept the fact they aren't fundie royalty anymore. It's going to take a long time for them to recover from this, even longer if there's more to come out.

[morri]

Indeed, I have rather ignored your collective posts, jews and non-jews alike. Because Ive been at work, I havent the time to reply to all the trolling of my posts as part of your collective police-state. So, start-up your eye-rolling engines, because here is my response. :auto-dirtbike: :roll: :roll: :roll:

If you are offended by the statement of Jessa handing money like a jew, and consider it anti-semitic, you are allowed to feel that way. And Im sorry you feel that way. And again, I am sorry to offend. Unfortunately, the matter is subjective. My point being, that Jessa is well-off, and will remain so, because "she handles money like a jew". You can interpret it any way you choose. However, I submit to the argument that economic anti-semitism is not a distinct form of anti-semitism and stems from theological causes (Because I may be Jewish, and furthermore, an accountant, but I am comfortable with my personhood and confident and secure in my heritage.). You cannot curb free speech in this world, and inevitably you will cross this stereotype again, so I encourage those of you offended by the stereotype to find new healthy ways to approach it.

Thank-you to everyone who sent me a PM, apologizing for the, "attacks" and bullying. I wouldnt want to come between a new poster and the Free Jinger police-statelynch-mob either. edit: Like I said, I come in peace!! Peace I tell you!

if she was a pecan thief would you say she steals like a polack? These are unneccessary derogative ethnic stereotypes.How about keeping ethnic stereotype comparisons out of here.

[Arrowoftruth]

I see Jessa staying fundie. She was raised ATI, and Ben was raised VF. That's a powerful fundie combination. I see Jill and Derick gradually becoming fundie lite. I can see Derick wanting Izzy to be a 3rd generation Pistol Pete.

I don't know what will happen to Josiah and Marjorie. My guess would be that in a few months they will call off the courtship. I also don't see Joseph staying at Crown College or any Duggar/Bates courtships.

The Duggars, Dillards, and Seewalds need to accept the fact they aren't fundie royalty anymore. It's going to take a long time for them to recover from this, even longer if there's more to come out.

How will Izzy be Pistol Pete if they dont allow dancing?

[SassyPants]

How will Izzy be Pistol Pete if they dont allow dancing?

Or higher education?

Or school at all?

[calimojo]

Lets just hope that Derrick pulls his head out of his ass and sees this cult for what it is. I hope that his love for Jill is true and strong so he can patiently guide her away. Jill is stuck at the maturity level of about 16 or 17 from what I have seen, except perhaps her work ethic since I can only assume she was a hard worker while at home raising the other kids.

Jill is going to need a lot of people in her life who can gently move her away from the brainwashed life she has been forced to leave.

All families try to develop sets of values and ethics in their children that are similar to the parents. But the difference is that normal families fully expect their child to try out different things, to likely reject some of what they were taught, at least for a while, and to form their own opinions and traditions, etc. We hope our kids don't wander too far away from our core values, I suppose, but we know that their journey may take them in many directions.

I think we also are open to learning from our children as well. My oldest is living at home for a bit before starting her new job. She is very level headed and makes very compelling analogies for justice vs. equality. She has given me quite a bit to think on as we have conversed about current events and pop culture. I feel proud that we gave her a foundation, but also provided her with the opportunity to launch herself in her own direction. I am certain that our liberal points of view have shaped hers of course, but unless she had done something extreme, like joined the WBC or something, I think she has always known she could form her own opinions and that we would love and respect her. The Duggar kids have been raised to think that thinking anything different from their parents would mean they risk all support and contact with the family. They must always be on point with the family message and any variation will make their lives a living hell.

[Arrowoftruth]

Or higher education?

Or school at all?

I think his chances of being a honorary pistol pete have been dashed with this scandal.

[artdecades]

Jessa is a very black-and-white, all or nothing person. If she switches views at all, it will be to another radical set of beliefs. I could see her being a jewish fundie (the Duggars love misappropriating Jewish tenets and symbols). If she left fundie-ism at all, she would be a bra-burning, MRA-tackling linebacker feminist. I just don't see that happening.

The black and white thinking is why I don't think Jess will ever leave fundamentalism or even go fundie lite. Not only does she think that their way is the only way, but that there are very specific rules to following that way. Even something like wearing pants would require her to question those rules and beliefs in a way that I don't think she is capable or desiring.

[calimojo]

I think his chances of being a honorary pistol pete have been dashed with this scandal.

I kind of doubt that a scandal over 18 years old, that didn't directly involve him would have any bearing on that at all. People are not going to hold Izzy Dillard responsible for what Josh, Jimbob and Michelle have done. And Jill is viewed sympathetically in this as a victim of molestation, so again, no fault on her nor on Izzy.

Now if the whole ATI thing were to blow up in a big way a few years from now, and Derick and Jill were implicated in perpetrating some terrible crimes as a result, then maybe that would happen, but I doubt that. I think Jill and Derick will move through their life more quietly now, and be less likely to be a spokesperson for the cult. At least I hope they do that.

[SassyPants]

All of these kids could definetly change, it's called growing up. It could happen for any of them, as long as they break away from the Duggarville ties that bind and constrict.

It's weird that we are talking about 20- somethings that have the maturation of 12 YOs, yet are already influencing another generation via parenthood. WTH, 12 YOs,[ even Derick Dillard] allowed to procreate.

What an eff'd up system and approach to life.

No choices at allowed at all, yet thought to be mature enough to handle a child. Wonder what these folks lace their kids' food with, and how much the rod needs to be used in order to get them on board with that illogic????

[RosyDaisy]

About Izzy being 3rd generation, I'm basing that on Derick's family history and his love of OSU. And it's wishful thinking on my part that Derick would want a real education for Izzy and any future kids. Plus, by the time Izzy is college age, the scandal won't be as fresh as it is now.

Derick may be drinking the kool aid now, but eventually he will have to man up and provide for his family and motivate Jill to enter the work force or complete her midwifery training.

[singsingsing]

I don't believe they have the maturity of 12-year-olds. I think in some ways they're less mature than others their own age, but in certain other ways they're more mature. I'm also in my 20s, and trust me, the Duggar kids don't come across as particularly less mature than the rest of their age cohort in general. The issue for me isn't so much their maturity (or perceived lack thereof), but their indoctrination and continued adherence to their cult.

[Arrowoftruth]

I kind of doubt that a scandal over 18 years old, that didn't directly involve him would have any bearing on that at all. People are not going to hold Izzy Dillard responsible for what Josh, Jimbob and Michelle have done. And Jill is viewed sympathetically in this as a victim of molestation, so again, no fault on her nor on Izzy.

Now if the whole ATI thing were to blow up in a big way a few years from now, and Derick and Jill were implicated in perpetrating some terrible crimes as a result, then maybe that would happen, but I doubt that. I think Jill and Derick will move through their life more quietly now, and be less likely to be a spokesperson for the cult. At least I hope they do that.

I guess I'm just imagining more stuff coming out and JB n Michelle pulling more stupid stunts. It never ends!

[nastyhobbitses]

I think his chances of being a honorary pistol pete have been dashed with this scandal.

I know it's more because of the reality show, but I would hope that people wouldn't look at Israel and say "Oh, your mom was molested by her brother, therefore you are unclean" or something. Jill didn't deserve what happened to her, doesn't deserve any stigma for what happened to her, and Israel doesn't deserve to suffer any of that either.

[2manyKidzzz]

I hope all of their children go to college. Derick certainly did and Jill and Derick did mention when they went to OSU that they wanted their children to go to college if they wanted to. So that is a definite change of mind for Jill.

[ShepherdontheRock]

I hope all of their children go to college. Derick certainly did and Jill and Derick did mention when they went to OSU that they wanted their children to go to college if they wanted to. So that is a definite change of mind for Jill.

I'd hope that maybe even Jill could do some type of college other than college minus. I know she has a baby to take care of, but there are a ton of online college programs out there...

[Yoshimi]

I don’t understand why people think Jill would be so opposed to her kids going to a real college one day. I’ve never heard Jill indicate anything other than how proud she was of Derick for going to college and being Pistol Pete. She seemed like she enjoyed her visit to the OSU campus even though she was a bit out of her element there. But mostly she seemed happy because her her husband was obviously happy to be back at his school. I think she sees how important college was for him and I don’t see why she’d deny their kids the opportunities that she never got. (Remember she's the one who wanted to become a nurse before her parents made her "pray" to become the more gothard-friendly midwife instead. What that tells me Jill DID have ambitions at one point which she had to stifle because it didn't fit in with her parents' expectations of women being SAHMs. I wonder if she secretly resents her upbringing?)

Where I do think she and Derick are being naive is if they think they can send their kids to college with just a homeschool education, particularly if Jill is the teacher and they use the ATI curriculum. But they still have a few more years before they have to worry about that so I hope they'll figure it out.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

I don’t understand why people think Jill would be so opposed to her kids going to a real college one day. I’ve never heard Jill indicate anything other than how proud she was of Derick for going to college and being Pistol Pete. She seemed like she enjoyed her visit to the OSU campus even though she was a bit out of her element there. But mostly she seemed happy because her her husband was obviously happy to be back at his school. I think she sees how important college was for him and I don’t see why she’d deny their kids the opportunities that she never got. (Remember she's the one who wanted to become a nurse before her parents made her "pray" to become the more gothard-friendly midwife instead. What that tells me Jill DID have ambitions at one point which she had to stifle because it didn't fit in with her parents' expectations of women being SAHMs. I wonder if she secretly resents her upbringing?)

Where I do think she and Derick are being naive is if they think they can send their kids to college with just a homeschool education, particularly if Jill is the teacher and they use the ATI curriculum. But they still have a few more years before they have to worry about that so I hope they'll figure it out.

Lots of kids go to college with "just a homeschool education". I thought people had generally gotten past that misconception. Though I wholeheartedly agree ATI is a poor choice for curriculum. Hopefully Derick will steer their children's education in a more well-rounded direction.

[Librul]

I don’t understand why people think Jill would be so opposed to her kids going to a real college one day. I’ve never heard Jill indicate anything other than how proud she was of Derick for going to college and being Pistol Pete. She seemed like she enjoyed her visit to the OSU campus even though she was a bit out of her element there. But mostly she seemed happy because her her husband was obviously happy to be back at his school. I think she sees how important college was for him and I don’t see why she’d deny their kids the opportunities that she never got. (Remember she's the one who wanted to become a nurse before her parents made her "pray" to become the more gothard-friendly midwife instead. What that tells me Jill DID have ambitions at one point which she had to stifle because it didn't fit in with her parents' expectations of women being SAHMs. I wonder if she secretly resents her upbringing?)

Where I do think she and Derick are being naive is if they think they can send their kids to college with just a homeschool education, particularly if Jill is the teacher and they use the ATI curriculum. But they still have a few more years before they have to worry about that so I hope they'll figure it out.

People may assume she wouldn't be prone to send her children to college because Gothardism is not big on college, especially for women. Derrick went to college before he fell down the cult rabbit hole. Yes, home schoolers get into all kinds of colleges including Ivy League, but those children had intelligent and committed homeschool teachers, not bored and poorly educated teenage sisters and fill in the blank worksheets online. When the ignorance is extended generationally, it's hard to see a lot of rigorous college in the Duggar grand children's future, except for Christian colleges like Crown college. Chemistry? Advanced mathematics? physics? Great literature? Yea, not happening at the SOTDRT.

[Cleopatra7]

People may assume she wouldn't be prone to send her children to college because Gothardism is not big on college, especially for women. Derrick went to college before he fell down the cult rabbit hole. Yes, home schoolers get into all kinds of colleges including Ivy League, but those children had intelligent and committed homeschool teachers, not bored and poorly educated teenage sisters and fill in the blank worksheets online. When the ignorance is extended generationally, it's hard to see a lot of rigorous college in the Duggar grand children's future, except for Christian colleges like Crown college. Chemistry? Advanced mathematics? physics? Great literature? Yea, not happening at the SOTDRT.

Out of all the kids, Jill is the only one who strikes me as a "true believer" in Gothardism, as opposed to simply doing it because that's all she knows. I can see Jill regarding Derrick's college experiences as something akin to how JB and Michelle must regard their own experiences in organized school: a regrettable experience that exposed Derrick to too many worldly temptations, but one that won't be repeated on his own children.

[YoshiCat]

I don’t understand why people think Jill would be so opposed to her kids going to a real college one day. I’ve never heard Jill indicate anything other than how proud she was of Derick for going to college and being Pistol Pete. She seemed like she enjoyed her visit to the OSU campus even though she was a bit out of her element there. But mostly she seemed happy because her her husband was obviously happy to be back at his school. I think she sees how important college was for him and I don’t see why she’d deny their kids the opportunities that she never got. (Remember she's the one who wanted to become a nurse before her parents made her "pray" to become the more gothard-friendly midwife instead. What that tells me Jill DID have ambitions at one point which she had to stifle because it didn't fit in with her parents' expectations of women being SAHMs. I wonder if she secretly resents her upbringing?)

Where I do think she and Derick are being naive is if they think they can send their kids to college with just a homeschool education, particularly if Jill is the teacher and they use the ATI curriculum. But they still have a few more years before they have to worry about that so I hope they'll figure it out.

I wouldn't count Jill out just yet, especially if she and Derek really are going to Nepal. She'll be exposed to the real world, not just the sheltered fundie version of it.

In a situation like the one in Nepal, there's a big need for health care and if she's interested, she could very easily get some training in basic nursing tasks. They don't have the licensing/education requirements we do and she could very quickly be vaccinating children or doing basic assessments.

If she likes it, she could become an LPN with just two years of school, although she'd probably have to take some math and biology classes first. And she'd have to put off having any more children for a few years.

But being in another country, away from fundie influences would give her a chance to figure out what she actually wants. I'm sure right now she thinks she wants to be a SAHM with eleventy+ kids but a change in scenery might open her mind to other options.

[FloraKitty35]

I agree real world exposure (away from Boob & Mullet & TLC) may do Jill a world of good.

[lascuba]

But wouldn't being in another country as a missionary mean she'll still be steeped in fundamentalism? And even if that's not the case, I still thinking people are greatly overestimating the benefits of travel when it comes to "opening minds," or whatever. It's very, very easy to stay in an ideological bubble wherever you go. Plenty of people spend tons of money traveling all over the world...and they always stay in resorts or stick to tourist/ex-pat areas. And even if they deign to get to know the locals, don't underestimate the power of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. You can't expect someone who's entire education explicitly discouraged critical thinking to actually learn all that much from her environments, especially when she's going there in the "superior" position of savior to the heathens. Derrick lived in Nepal for how long and he STILL fell for Jill, married into that family, and joined the TLC circus. What does that tell us about the mind-expansion benefits of travel?

[SassyPants]

But wouldn't being in another country as a missionary mean she'll still be steeped in fundamentalism? And even if that's not the case, I still thinking people are greatly overestimating the benefits of travel when it comes to "opening minds," or whatever. It's very, very easy to stay in an ideological bubble wherever you go. Plenty of people spend tons of money traveling all over the world...and they always stay in resorts or stick to tourist/ex-pat areas. And even if they deign to get to know the locals, don't underestimate the power of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. You can't expect someone who's entire education explicitly discouraged critical thinking to actually learn all that much from her environments, especially when she's going there in the "superior" position of savior to the heathens. Derrick lived in Nepal for how long and he STILL fell for Jill, married into that family, and joined the TLC circus. What does that tell us about the mind-expansion benefits of travel?

What it shows is that people are motivated by easy money above all else.