Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 4

[veron1que]

Jana was also born on January 12, 1990, so I think she would have had her GED by December 2006. Jill, on the other hand, would still be 15 and working toward her GED.

But if Jana had had her GED, she would have said she was no longer homeschooled because she had her GED. All 5 girls state they were homeschooled, and one states she's working on her GED. It must have been Jana. I would not be surprised if Jana was finishing her GED at the time or received her GED as a 17 year old.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Here in Tennessee, strip clubs can't sell alcohol. So it's 18+. Including the dancers - an old friend of mine was dancing at 19. I suspect that's the case in Arkansas too.

If he did go to strip clubs, that would be fairly brazen. I know in the smaller towns here the clubs stick out like sore thumbs and people who go to them are recognized by their cars. It would've been super easy to get caught or gossiped about, even if the only non-adult Duggars who could drive were the three next oldest kids.

One of the strip clubs by me has a big huge concrete wall around the parking lot for that very reason :p

[twinmama]

In regards to the speculation that Josh himself may have been abused:

Do you all consider it a form of child abuse that he likely saw/heard his parents going at it all the time in that small house?

I'm torn on this one. I don't see anything wrong with parents being sexually active and even their kids kinda knowing it. Sex is a healthy thing, nothing to be ashamed of or ignored or denied in normal circumstances. But for his parents to be SO out there with nonstop sex (clearly), but deny him any knowledge of his body, any outlet for his own sexuality, and to make sex into something wrong and evil for anyone but them is horrible.

[weezie]

He knew better. After he was turned in by the first victim, he was corrected. He continued. He knew better.

That is what a judge should be pointing out as he sentences Josh.

[twinmama]

Except Gays, women who had abortions, and black teens Yet God forgives.

God has limits! He forgives straight, white males! Like he was. Like his son (who was born in the middle east) was! :disgust:

[MichellezBangz]

Holy crap!

She calls the Duggars "liberals" and calls for Smuggar to be executed...

Just, wow!

[church_of_dog]

I honestly cannot see how the show could come back at this point, without TLC turning it into a completely different show. Even if they removed Josh and his family, even if they removed Jim Bob and Michelle, the whole "Gosh darnit we're just a sweet Christian family with a whole lotta kids and we're so wholesome it hurts!" is obviously not going to hold up now. I can't see the Duggars agreeing to participate in a 'Breaking Amish' sort of thing, so that's that.

Here's one example of a successful show that only features the kids and no adults (except for a few waaa waas), although making it work with actual human beings is, um, a bit more complicated :lol:

[bBvideo 560,340:2f51a6kp]

[/bBvideo]

[carriedaway14]

But if Jana had had her GED, she would have said she was no longer homeschooled because she had her GED. All 5 girls state they were homeschooled, and one states she's working on her GED. It must have been Jana. I would not be surprised if Jana was finishing her GED at the time or received her GED as a 17 year old.

Jana also took classes at home after receiving her GED.

[lascuba]

I thought when they were younger, at least, it was Jana in charge of the evening meal. I don't know, I guess it's not something we'll ever know. I don't think it's something we can assume based on personality.

As emotionally crippled as teen Duggars are, a 14 year old would absolutely know better. I could make some allowances for curiosity in a family so severely repressed that acting out inappropriately could be somewhat justified, IF his victims weren't his sisters; if one of the victims wasn't 4 years old; if he hadn't been told his behavior was inappropriate and if he hadn't continued the behavior after being told to stop.

As far as Josh being influenced by his parents horndog behavior--honestly, I think a lot of their public humping is for the cameras. They weren't like that in the early specials are first few seasons, I don't think. They would peck each other on the lips a lot, but that's it.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I thought when they were younger, at least, it was Jana in charge of the evening meal. I don't know, I guess it's not something we'll ever know. I don't think it's something we can assume based on personality.

As emotionally crippled as teen Duggars are, a 14 year old would absolutely know better. I could make some allowances for curiosity in a family so severely repressed that acting out inappropriately could be somewhat justified, IF his victims weren't his sisters; if one of the victims wasn't 4 years old; if he hadn't been told his behavior was inappropriate and if he hadn't continued the behavior after being told to stop.

As far as Josh being influenced by his parents horndog behavior--honestly, I think a lot of their public humping is for the cameras. They weren't like that in the early specials are first few seasons, I don't think. They would peck each other on the lips a lot, but that's it.

Now there is no more babies fuck trophies, Jimbob has to resort to new measures to prove to the world that his dick works.

[ViolaSebastian]

Seriously JimBob and Michelle need help and kicked in their butts!

I consider myself a person that's dedicated to non-violence, but I want to kick Jim Bob and Michelle's ass so badly right now. Josh's, too. Those three are the holy trinity of repugnance.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

I actually had to send Zsu a message telling her that is freaking awesome. I have a lot of respect for her as a mother now.

And you know, most of the people defending him feel differently once they are aware that he was molesting his sisters. They feel extra differently when you point out that the youngest was not yet five. I'm angry now that the press isn't stating that this was incest. Very angry. As for protecting the girls? That ship has sailed. I'm sorry to them. Also, most of the people defending him have not read the police report. The interviews are nauseating. The DVDs would likely reduce me to a weeping heap. Child abuse and sexual assault against children upset me more than anything else on this planet. I'm glad that even crazy Zsu agrees with that.

[Buzzard]

http://www.deepsouthdaily.com/2015/05/i ... s-gay.html

This is a great article that uses real quotes to prove the hypocrisy of the situation.

Homosexuality can never be forgiven or excused; it is fundamentally at odds with the tenets of Christian patriarchy. The notion that one man can be dominated by another man — sexually or domestically — is an inherent threat to the foundational idea that men are always meant to be the lord of the household. That’s why the religious right is primarily obsessed with the sex lives of gay men, not gay women.

But pedophilia and child molestation are different. They do not threaten patriarchal assumptions. In some ways, they confirm the role of men: to exercise dominance and control over those who are weaker. What Josh Duggar did, then, can be viewed by proponents of Christian patriarchy as an early exercise of his primal male instinct to assert power. Certainly, they don’t think it ideal that this instinct manifested itself at the expense of his younger siblings. But it isn’t a threat.

And that’s why Josh Duggar’s “coming out†is infinitely more forgivable than Michael Sam’s coming out. Michael Sam loving another man is a threat to Christian patriarchy. Josh Duggar molesting young girls is not.

[Cleopatra7]

Here's one example of a successful show that only features the kids and no adults (except for a few waaa waas), although making it work with actual human beings is, um, a bit more complicated :lol:

[bBvideo 560,340:2xbrf9mj]

[/bBvideo]

That settles it; from now on when I think of JB and Michelle, I'm going to imagine a wah-wah trombone instead of words or sentences, because nothing they say has any content anyway.

[twinmama]

Zsu Zsu has finally weighed in..

stevenandersonfamily.blogspot.com/2015/05/my-thoughts-on-duggars.html

Before I read, my only thought is "Oh god, have I had enough wine to deal with whatever this says!!??"

[HarryPotterFan]

The saddest thing is that all the people who are supposed to have protected the girls and stood up for them have failed them. Their parents covered up that they were being molested, and continued to spout shit about modesty and how once you've had sexual contact with someone, you are dirty, and that girls who get raped and molested caused it by being immodest. And make sex jokes about them.

The leader of their cult is also a child molester, and he molests girls who go for help, as well as providing a culture where victim blaming and shame is standard, and also gives victims those awful victim blaming worksheets that make them feel worse.

Everyone who is supposed to be on their side-their closest friends and everyone they know, let them down by defending their abuser, instead of standing up for the victims and saying this is not okay.

So far the only people who have showed genuine love to them and wanted to help and protect them are people who cant, because we are just people who watched their show and talk about it on a forum. Its so sad. How can things go so wrong that the only people who want to help, are too far away to provide it.

This is what gets me the most. Hearing about this, trying to read the police report but being too sickened to continue, and reading on here has made me feel sick and heavy hearted, but the failure of their parents is what brought tears to my eyes. I was assaulted by another student in my grade when I was 12 (and this kid damn well knew what he did was wrong) and I somehow got the courage to tell my teacher because I couldn't concentrate on my classwork. I told her what happened, while crying, and her only response was, "Oh I'm sorry, did that make you feel uncomfortable?" Of course it did, you idiot, why do you think I'm CRYING? And that was the extent of her response. Her lack of response made me feel like my feelings were completely invalid and that I was over reacting. I retreated into a shell, and it took years to come out of it.

Looking back sometimes I wish I picked a different teacher to tell or tried again, but then I remind myself that I was a scared kid and people of any age have difficultly telling someone what happened. She should have done something, she should have taken me to the guidance counselor, she should have let me call my parents. I get so angry thinking about that, because aren't teachers mandated reporters? She failed me, she failed her duty. And Michelle and Jim Bob failed their daughters. And I think that must have permanently altered their relationship, because how could it not? How could the girls ever trust their parents again? If it happened again after Josh was sent off for those few months, how could they trust their parents would take any action to protect them? Michelle and Jim Bob destroyed the bond of trust that exists between a parent and a child. No child should feel like their parents won't protect them. And in my situation, if that teacher had taken action as she was supposed to - or brought me to an administrator who knew what to do - maybe I would have gotten some justice. Because I know my parents would protect me and my mom wouldn't stop fighting until that little sh*t saw consequences.

Jim Bob and Michelle re-victimized their daughters by failing to protect them and likely invalidating their feelings. And just...not taking action in trying to stop Josh until someone else involved the police...isn't knowingly leaving their daughters in an unsafe environment some form of child abuse?

Ugh okay, back to the never ending game of playing catch up on these threads.

[Cheetah]

Just saw a national ABC news clip (the 5:30 showing, about 12 minutes into the broadcast) on the Duggar scandal. Looked for the clip on their site but it's not up yet from what I can tell.

[HarryPotterFan]

Also another thing that makes me angry is the parents ignored the molestation of their daughters and then turned them into their personal slaves. Are you kidding me.

[grandmadugger]

Huckabee on sexual abuse:

Some things are either right or wrong. It doesn't matter who does them. When Hollywood hero Roman Polanski drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl and then fled the country instead of facing the consequences of his own guilty plea, there should be no defense of him from anyone. What he did was evil and reprehensible. The fact that he is a great director doesn't obscure the fact that he robbed a child of far more than Bernie Madoff stole from his victims.

What has our culture become when people can commit despicable criminal acts and yet get defended and excused because they are celebrities. If David Letterman takes advantage of subordinates who work for him, then it's not funny, it's pathetic and immoral. The audience shouldn't laugh and applaud; they ought to walk out in disgust. And instead of actors and even governments seeking the release of Roman Polanski, they should be screaming for justice.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/10/05 ... dards.html

[singsingsing]

Okay, I'm going to throw something out here - I think Josh is the one who went to Jim Bob "very upset and crying" in March of 2002 and confessed that HE had been going into his sisters' room at night and molesting them. That's what I thought when I first read the reports, and I can't remember why I changed my mind.

Go back and read Jim Bob's interview. Read it as follows, as if there were no redactions: "James said that in March of 2002, his son Joshua, who had just turned 14, came to him very upset and crying. James said that Joshua had told him that he had been sneaking into his sisters' room at night and had been touching his sisters on the breasts and vaginal areas while they were sleeping. (Apparently the sisters were sleeping in a common room at this time.) Joshua told James that this had occurred 4 to 5 times and had occurred once as one of his sisters was sleeping on the couch. Apparently his sisters [or perhaps 'the girls'] had always been asleep when these incidents occurred."

I also believe it's possible that Josh was the one to confess initially after the July '02 incident and the March '03 incident. But I'm almost positive that he was the one who came to Jim Bob upset and crying. If that's true, consider this: he knew his actions were wrong, horribly wrong, so wrong that he was very upset and crying as he confessed to his father - but he continued to re-offend, again and again, for a full year. That's indicative of a VERY serious problem. He knew he was doing something terrible, but he still could not control his actions. He needed serious professional intervention, real help, NOT Gothard's building project. If he truly never offended again after coming back, it's sheer dumb luck.

[twinmama]

Just, wow!

When you think about it, this kind of reaction kind of makes sense for some fundies. What do fundies love better than being better than another family and pointing out their superiority? Nothing! "My fam is so religious we don't molest each other!" Woo hoo! We're better than the Duggars! But maybe I'm stepping into Bitch Eating Crackers territory there.

[twinmama]

I actually had to send Zsu a message telling her that is freaking awesome. I have a lot of respect for her as a mother now.

Given the comments we have all read this past week it's hard to remember, but being against sexual abuse doesn't make you a good person or parent! It takes more than that. Most, or all, sane people are against sexually abusing minors! Physical abuse isn't that far behind sexual abuse. I don't know much about Zsu, but simply thinking sexually abusing minors is wrong isn't worthy of respect in the absence of other good qualities!!

Also in this very post, she says she thinks the Duggars are liberals because they won't ADMIT they hit their kids! In other words, she thinks you should hit them and be proud of it. Not a good parent.

[princessmahina]

Why do the apologists fail to point out that it was not a one time occurrence??

theblaze.com/contributions/the-duggars-arent-hypocrites-progressives-are/

Sorry... not gifted with the copy-paste. Lol.

I literally unfriended someone today on facebook over that article. It infuriated me beyond all recognition.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

I do think this situation would be really hard on a parent. You're essentially having to choose between your children. You know that you can only be a good parent to one of them.

But isn't the choice obvious?

If my son ever did anything like this to my daughter.... well, he would no longer be my son. He would be cut off. I would refuse to see or acknowledge him. No hurts my children, including my children. Maybe if he truly did apologize (NOT a Joshie apology like a real one). Maybe. But most likely not. I don't think I could forgive anyone who did that to my daughter, not even my own son. I know, I'm not a mother; I can't really say something like that. But I mean it. Hopefully in my life time I will not have to defend that statement, but I would. Not sure yet if I'd drown him in the bathtub or just dump him off in Haiti....

You know, it's funny, I know a baptist family where this happened. They did almost the same thing. The son raped the daughter for nine years. The only way someone found out is a neighbour found her naked and duct taped. What did the parents do? Nothing at all. They honestly pretended it never happened. I mean atheists may be ebil but at least we appropriately address our children's "mistakes".

[twinmama]

I don't think it's impossible to care for both your son and your abused daughters. There are two parents, and in a situation like this they need to each take responsibility for helping one party, IMO. When Jani Schofield had a younger brother she was a danger to, her parents lived apart, one with each sibling to protect the young baby from the possibly violent older sister. What Josh did is disgusting, horrible and unforgivable, but he is also a product of his environment and his parents are still his parents regardless of what he did. Most especially since he wasn't an adult at the time. They could have kept him away from his victims, but with a parent for guidance, but they didn't. Of course, all that is harder when you have a zillion children.