Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 4

[GotCaughtDancing]

That's the thing though as a Christian I am commanded to follow not only God's moral law, Jesus' commandments/teaching, and the law of the government. No where does it tell me that because I'm a Christian I am not to be judge by the laws of the land, it actually says to submit to it. I mean Jesus after all submitted to the Roman authorities after all and he was blameless. I use this as just another of many ways that the Duggar's aren't Christian.

I'd like to throw this verse in their faces:

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins Hebrews 10:26

I have seen this basic principle of Judgement twisted to hell and back. Recently on a political thread one person said that because they are Christian and have been saved they are allowed to judge what they know to not be true to their thinking. This person got torn too bits.

[mamallama]

Of course you will always have the lorry Alexander's of the world. but I honestly think most of his defenders are just posting comments without reading the article or the police report.

Hey, that raises an interesting point, has anyone had the time to check out the other fundie blogger reactions?

[LittleOleMe]

I heard someone say today that the timing on this is very suspect. Why now? Why not years ago?

Followed up by speculation that this is all a play to bring down Huckabee, as if he had a real chance in the upcoming race.

Curious -- I am such an a-political being. Does this theory hold any water at all?

(Is there a vomiting smilie? This whole thing makes me sick.)

I don't think it does. Huckabee is an idiot and was never going to win any sort of nomination anyway. That doesn't make sense to me.

But I am very curious about the timing as well. And I agree that it seems like they knew this was coming for quite some time since Josh just randomly bought a house in Arkansas. He bought it outright so no worries about a mortgage payment. It needs work but he has an entire family who will work for free. (Hey, maybe he can run his own manual-labor-will-save-your-soul-from-satan-for-molesting-your-sisters-camp) If this was a political move, it wouldn't make sense to release it now. He hasn't announced any sort of run for anything. He's been working at FRC for years. His family has been doing the whole "(insert normal common thing that isn't dangerous) will hurt our children so don't let it happen!" bullshit for even longer. It's all very strange and odd to me. But I don't have any real answers either, other than to say I don't believe the whole "this was done down to bring down Huckabee" line.

[nelliebelle1197]

I (regrettably) spent some time the last two days reading the comment sections of People, US, etc. There were so many responses that were downplaying the situation because they jumped to the idea that the "mistakes" were between Josh and another teenager that were "experimenting." People either didn't know about or care to look up the police report, or were in flat out denial about it's contents. Josh's vague statement, TLC's statement of expressing their sorrow to the "victims and the family" and the omission by 95% of the media's reporting that the Duggar girls were among the victims has not helped. Even when confronted with the facts there were people who were still insisting the Duggar girls were not involved. Basically anything people can think of to justify or downplay is out there now.

You need a hug for that one. :hug4:

[JumpingD]

Exactly! Thanks for linking this.

Notice Jana and Jinger's expressions during Michelle's the victim is to blame speech.

Also - have you ever seen Michelle show a ton of live towards Jana or a Jinger? Nope. Contrast that with how much she seem to love Josh - remember whe. He moved to DC.

Michelle and JB probably caused almost as much damage after the abuse by blaming the victims.

I can imagine Jana and Jinger's silent rage toward their parents for not protecting them then and now.

[ShadowyOne]

I (regrettably) spent some time the last two days reading the comment sections of People, US, etc. There were so many responses that were downplaying the situation because they jumped to the idea that the "mistakes" were between Josh and another teenager that were "experimenting." People either didn't know about or care to look up the police report, or were in flat out denial about it's contents. Josh's vague statement, TLC's statement of expressing their sorrow to the "victims and the family" and the omission by 95% of the media's reporting that the Duggar girls were among the victims has not helped. Even when confronted with the facts there were people who were still insisting the Duggar girls were not involved. Basically anything people can think of to justify or downplay is out there now.

Wow, finally finished the majority of all 4 threads, and coming out of semi-lurkdom because I just can't get over so many of the aspects of this case. But what really sticks with me is how many people are defending him, and don't seem to realize what really went on, seemingly assuming that it was consensual, age-appropriate (and not, ya know, incest). His "apology" was just so weaselly and purposefully misleading fundie-speak that one would have absolutely no idea what happened from it, and I agree that many media outlets aren't making it clear, either. I found a really good article about it: https://defeatingthedragons.wordpress.c ... y-with-it/

In which the author makes it clear that we need to be clear that this was child sexual assault, because using weasel words lets the abuser obscure his guilt.

The humpers' intentional ignorance of the facts also really reminds me of $cinos and JWs who willfully remain ignorant of what's going on even when they could easily get the facts, because they won't listen to apostate sources.

*sigh... Above all, this whole situation just makes me so sad & mad, dammit. And only reinforces my intention of teaching my LO everything I can about her body, and have her know that I will do my best to protect her, no matter what.

[fabkiwi06]

One thing I've been wondering is what if Josh really is sorry?

What if - through some magically divine intervention - manual labor camp worked and he did "recover" so to speak. Or at least never acted upon those urges again.

What if his sisters really have forgiven him and everything is all peachy in Duggarland?

Public fallout aside, is it possible for Josh to continue his life with his family?

This is not the first family who has dealt with sex abuse within the ranks. I'm sure it's not the first family who will want to keep the whole family together. Is there a way you can do that in the best of circumstances and not do more damage to the victims?

[JumpingD]

Should have read "a ton of love" not live

[jegfile]

Just got home from work... I am employed in a bookstore and Saturdays we print out returns for the week. On the list for this week was "Growing Up Duggar" - it was manually added sometime between Friday and today... in other words, the system didn't automatically add it to the list because it had been on our shelf for x number of weeks without selling. I wonder if it's being "recalled" company wide so as to avoid fallout. I don't think the Duggars are huge in my country/area so I don't see it mattering either way. I just found that interesting.

[RMB863]

I heard someone say today that the timing on this is very suspect. Why now? Why not years ago?

Followed up by speculation that this is all a play to bring down Huckabee, as if he had a real chance in the upcoming race.

Curious -- I am such an a-political being. Does this theory hold any water at all?

(Is there a vomiting smilie? This whole thing makes me sick.)

I'm from the UK so not completely up to date on the presidential candidate selection race (we've had our own election to deal with) but the timing is very interesting to me too.

I'm not sure how big of a player Huckabee is but it could certainly sink him, if not with the party faithful then certainly with swingvoters.

However, what holds more sway with me (in terms of politics related speculation) is that it was someone within the pressure group Josh was working for. It's such a small world and people work hard to claw their way to the top and then Josh is parachuted in to a top position by virtue of having a famous fundie family. It could easily foster jealousy and resentment, enough for people to go digging anyway.

Side note: The whole statue of limitations thing is very strange to me. In the UK that is not a thing, you can be prosecuted for something as long as: a)there is a reasonable expectation of conviction (generally about 75%) b) it is in the public interest to prosecute and c) you are fit to stand trial.

[weezie]

Why do the apologists fail to point out that it was not a one time occurrence??

theblaze.com/contributions/the-duggars-arent-hypocrites-progressives-are/

Sorry... not gifted with the copy-paste. Lol.

[GotCaughtDancing]

Fuck you Michelle Duggar. This thinking is what lets rapists off free. I don't think they serve Jury Duty? Can you imagine either of them on a jury if this how they run their home? They'd throw a wrench in everytime.

Also that bikini story is a bunch of BS. They only bring it up now as a way to prove their way of thinking and also boost her ego. Also each time they tell the story it changes from the woman didn't like her, the husband didn't like her, their family didn't like her, to they didn't like her family at all. I believe she once reference it causing the man to cheat on his wife. :angry-banghead:

I doubt the reason the neighbors disliked her whole family had anything to do with her mowing her lawn.

[Portnoy]

Finally the voice of reason!!!! I tried to say the same thing, but apparently my English isn't good enough.

In response to the parents being ultimately responsible - I have reservations on this. This culture puts incredible pressure on people at all stages of their lives - yes - so will all of life's circumstances. The majority of people in the world - no matter their age or circumstances - do not hurt other people. Josh has a specific problem and I would not be willing to blame it entirely on the shortcomings of his upbringing.

[LilahBelle]

Seriously JimBob and Michelle need help and kicked in their butts!

This was just 4 days ago?? Did anybody see the look on Jessa's face? Might we have an indication on why this report was leaked out now????

[ShadowyOne]

Hey, that raises an interesting point, has anyone had the time to check out the other fundie blogger reactions?

There is a topic about that very thing in General Snark. Sorry, can't link the topic from tablet, but I think it's pretty near the top.

Eta: it is called Fundie Reaction Watch

[Honeysuckle]

I'm so sorry. Every kid deserves a mom who makes them feel safe, loved and important.

In reading about the whole Duggar thing now, I have had moments where I think maybe it's better that they are adamant about the whole it's in the past and forgiven thing. Maybe the girls don't see it for the horrific big deal that it is/was. Anything to lessen their pain. But then, not living in reality is really just putting off the inevitable realization that it was a horrific thing that happened to them and they should deal with it.

This is moving so fast that this will probably be pages back by the time I finish typing, sorry.

The police report being leaked, the whole scandal being brought up and being splashed all over the media is going to bring up strong feelings in the victims. If the victims were really taught that they needed to forgive and it was as if it never happened, then they might actually feel like something is wrong with them when recent events trigger strong emotional responses. After all, good little robots don't break out of their programming just because someone rips off a huge scab and pokes at the wound. It's another way in which their voices could be minimized, if they are feeling any pressure to just say that it was a long time ago and doesn't matter.

[Mela99]

Will they change their tune after this? Did they sit the girls down and tell them they were tempting sluts after this happened?

Can they be that obtuse and idiotic to NOT say something now???

I dunno, man. I almost think it's ore likely that we'll get radio silence. They can't admit that they were wrong.

[RMB863]

One thing I've been wondering is what if Josh really is sorry?

What if - through some magically divine intervention - manual labor camp worked and he did "recover" so to speak. Or at least never acted upon those urges again.

What if his sisters really have forgiven him and everything is all peachy in Duggarland?

Public fallout aside, is it possible for Josh to continue his life with his family?

This is not the first family who has dealt with sex abuse within the ranks. I'm sure it's not the first family who will want to keep the whole family together. Is there a way you can do that in the best of circumstances and not do more damage to the victims?

If those first to statements are true then yes. I think it's unlikely that they are or that you could ever verify that they are, particularly the first & second ones.

Whilst I believe in rehabilitation I know that sex crimes have the highest rate of recidivism, it's highly unlikely that someone is going to be rehabilitated without professional help and treatment. That wasn't given in the 4 years between the act and the police report but one would hope that afterwards Children's services did provide professional help for all of the people involved (plus a heck of a lot of monitoring).

[Edited to fix ordering].

[refugee]

You need a hug for that one. :hug4:

Brain bleach needed. Please don't read any further in this comment if rape apologists are triggering to you. Wait a minute. Shouldn't they be triggering to everyone? Sorry to generalize, but I am really upset and can't imagine a reason for a differing viewpoint.

I had to stop reading comments on posts and updates after fencing with one guy whose posts made me sick. His recurring theme in defending Josh's actions (at least I think it was a defense of sorts) was that the girls were just as culpable. They were all sleeping in one room together, so if his attentions were unwanted, they could have ganged up on him. Or maybe they were making it into a big party time. After all, it kept going on for months, and they didn't try to stop it. They weren't "victims" in his mind, but willing participants.

I can't believe people can think that way. I told him I felt sorry for any women in his life, and hoped he didn't have daughters or granddaughters. He came back and said he has two sons. I feel sorry for any future women in his sons' lives, if he is teaching them his own attitudes.

[fabkiwi06]

In response to the parents being ultimately responsible - I have reservations on this. This culture puts incredible pressure on people at all stages of their lives - yes - so will all of life's circumstances. The majority of people in the world - no matter their age or circumstances - do not hurt other people. Josh has a specific problem and I would not be willing to blame it entirely on the shortcomings of his upbringing.

There is plenty of blame to go around in this situation. Josh clearly was old enough to know what he was doing was wrong. He tried to hide his actions.

Jim Bob and Michelle were wrong to not properly deal with it, and THEN to lie and cover it up at the expense of their daughters. Add in the fact that they were the ones who chose the ATI lifestyle for their kids - thus dooming them to a patriarchal hell.

Josh could have just as easily done that if his family wasn't fundie, but because his parents choose those religious convictions, the perpetrator was protected at the expense of the victims. There is plenty of blame to throw around on that.

[fundie_grandchild]

LOL, yea that's the problem. Not the part where, oh, no charges were filed? Or the part where a child molestor walked free and lived with his victims??? Or the part where the parents just continued business as usual? Some great police work there.

Am I the only person who thinks that JB going to a paedophile police officer is NOT a coincidence? It looks like JB went to his "buddy" cop because he knew this would provide the appearance that he was doing something, when I fact he knew that his buddy would not write a formal report as required by law. This creates the ILLUSION that BJ when to the police, when he actually wasn't so he has a ready-made excuse if it ever became necessary.

If I were the police I would be looking for possible connections between this paedophile cop and whomever he might have accessed/exchanged pictures of young children with (if he did). The Duggar's "training" used to make the girls instantly obedient (while demonstrating a pleasing countenance) is a really effective method for grooming children to do whatever they are told.

I think there are really deeply sinister possibilities regarding JB's connections with a child molesting police officer. It might simply be coincidence, but it certainly needs investigation.

[fabkiwi06]

If those first to statements are true then yes. I think it's unlikely that they are or that you could ever verify that they are, particularly the first & second ones.

Whilst I believe in rehabilitation I know that sex crimes have the highest rate of recidivism, it's highly unlikely that someone is going to be rehabilitated without professional help and treatment. That wasn't given in the 4 years between the act and the police report but one would hope that afterwards Children's services did provide professional help for all of the people involved (plus a heck of a lot of monitoring).

[Edited to fix ordering].

I realize it's a giant what-if and about as likely as JimBob being honest.

[happy atheist]

Hey, that raises an interesting point, has anyone had the time to check out the other fundie blogger reactions?

Fundie Reaction Watch thread from Quiver Full of Snark: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26073

[ILoveJellybeans]

THEY SAID THAT FOUR FUCKING DAYS AGO?????? WHY?????? DID THEY KNOW THAT SHIT WAS ABOUT TO GO DOWN?? WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE WITH A HEART BE SAYING THIS SHIT WHEN THEIR DAUGHTERS WERE MOLESTED.

Seriously, fuck you Michelle, fuck you Jimbob, and most importantly, fuck you Josh.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I have a feeling this is going to be the tip of a very nasty ice burg. I know Jim Boob is creepy and marginal I really really hope he is not the one.

No way would be be the one. He wouldn't have brought his kids in for even a coached investigation if he was. And he definitely wouldn't have asked his cop buddy to talk to Josh.

IF Josh was a victim of sexual abuse himself, it would have been someone outside of his immediate family. But, it's not a requirement that he need to be abused in order to abuse. Especially in a culture that enables it and primes women to be victims.