Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 4

May 23, 2015

Great scripture to bring up. I am not religious at all, and I have a hard time understanding how harming others can be justified by JB&M. A la carte religion is the worst form, and that is what they practice.

Exactly!! SOOOO much of what they say and do isn't based on what is actually taught. People dance in the Bible and there's no mention that it brought evil upon those who did. Just like the whole "keep sweet" bullshit. Jesus got so mad in the temple he flipped tables but if their kid doesn't do something with a smile they are sinners. Where and how do they twist that?

May 23, 2015

I want to know how the use passages in the bible as proof homosexuals are disgusting and should not have rights, when there are also passages saying pretty much the same things about incest.

May 23, 2015

You guy weren't kidding about the girls reaction to that comment. Jana even put her head down after hearing that. And remember, Josh is in the same room with them too.

May 23, 2015

Wow, finally finished the majority of all 4 threads, and coming out of semi-lurkdom because I just can't get over so many of the aspects of this case. But what really sticks with me is how many people are defending him, and don't seem to realize what really went on, seemingly assuming that it was consensual, age-appropriate (and not, ya know, incest). His "apology" was just so weaselly and purposefully misleading fundie-speak that one would have absolutely no idea what happened from it, and I agree that many media outlets aren't making it clear, either. I found a really good article about it: https://defeatingthedragons.wordpress.c ... y-with-it/

In which the author makes it clear that we need to be clear that this was child sexual assault, because using weasel words lets the abuser obscure his guilt.

The humpers' intentional ignorance of the facts also really reminds me of $cinos and JWs who willfully remain ignorant of what's going on even when they could easily get the facts, because they won't listen to apostate sources.

*sigh... Above all, this whole situation just makes me so sad & mad, dammit. And only reinforces my intention of teaching my LO everything I can about her body, and have her know that I will do my best to protect her, no matter what.

I have really wanted to believe that the media reports are not including details from the police report, mainly that it involved four Duggar girls to protect them, but I haven't convinced myself of it yet. I can't help but feel it's because they won't want to blow the lid so wide open on the family exposing them as complete frauds. I watched Today and GMA specifically because they have featured the family so much. The most I saw from it was at the end of the report on Today, Matt Lauer looked concerned and asked the reporter (the one that just interviewed the family) "so it is possible that the family knew for awhile before doing anything?" That's it. I wish there was at least a link to the report in the articles. It just feels as if it's being reported because it's "news," and get the story done and move on to something less disturbing. I wish some mainstream outlet would run with it and dig deeper and not hold back. I'm sure there would still be some in denial but it could change a lot of casual viewers/observers opinions of the family.

May 23, 2015

One thing I've been wondering is what if Josh really is sorry?

What if - through some magically divine intervention - manual labor camp worked and he did "recover" so to speak. Or at least never acted upon those urges again.

What if his sisters really have forgiven him and everything is all peachy in Duggarland?

Public fallout aside, is it possible for Josh to continue his life with his family?

This is not the first family who has dealt with sex abuse within the ranks. I'm sure it's not the first family who will want to keep the whole family together. Is there a way you can do that in the best of circumstances and not do more damage to the victims?

Short answer: maybe. It'll always be more complicated than in situations where molestation didn't happen. The thing is that normal people do not expect victims to heal all at once and never feel bad again. I have a very superficial relationship with my brother (my abuser). We're facebook friends, and we talk on the phone once every year or two. This whole Josh Duggar thing has been very triggering for me. I told my mom that right now, I do not want her to give my brother any information about me, not even superficial information like "Honeysuckle came for supper the other night." And my mom, who is a reasonable adult human, said "Of course."

In a situation like the Duggars, where they are actively members of an oppressive religion that tramples on the rights of women, I do not think the victims would have a real voice. They would not have the ability to say "Can we not have Josh over tonight? I just can't deal." Because they would have been told that they should just move past this. After all, their abuser repented. What the hell else do they want from him? Are they going to make him feel bad forever? Why, they should be lucky he even wants to talk to them, they basically ruined his life.

So, I can see a situation where JB and M pretend everything is fine and continue to allow Josh around their family, but I cannot see it happening in a way that is respectful and protective of the victims first and foremost.

May 23, 2015

my heart cant keep breaking like this, someone please get those kids some help!

May 23, 2015

How do they know if God forgave him? Did God call them?

Serious question, I'm not Christian...

"God forgives all who accept him into their lives and hearts."

So, by the definition, God forgave Hitler cause he was Christian. I'm rather glad I don't believe in their God. I don't want a God who forgives Hitler.

May 23, 2015

Why do the apologists fail to point out that it was not a one time occurrence??

theblaze.com/contributions/the-duggars-arent-hypocrites-progressives-are/

Sorry... not gifted with the copy-paste. Lol.

Ohhhh as I value my blood pressure remaining at a normal level I am deciding not to read an article with that link title!!!!!

May 23, 2015

I'm having an Internet discussion on Google Plus with a Catholic Nun. She said that this an out of proportion reaction to an event that happened when Josh was 14 years old. He shouldn't have to had quit his job. She gave me this link. westernjournalism.com/a-christian-defense-of-josh-duggar/

My biggest point, to her, is that the Duggar's never got the children help and this would force them too. Plus they will stop getting money from a fake reality show which shows this dangerous cult as normal. But my big mistake is throwing in Catholic priests as being pedophiles and their cases being brought out in the open years later. She said that was apples vs oranges and the priest was an adult.

Am I going to be able to change her mind!

May 23, 2015

One thing I've been wondering is what if Josh really is sorry?

What if - through some magically divine intervention - manual labor camp worked and he did "recover" so to speak. Or at least never acted upon those urges again.

What if his sisters really have forgiven him and everything is all peachy in Duggarland?

Public fallout aside, is it possible for Josh to continue his life with his family?

This is not the first family who has dealt with sex abuse within the ranks. I'm sure it's not the first family who will want to keep the whole family together. Is there a way you can do that in the best of circumstances and not do more damage to the victims?

While I don't think that without good therapy, the sisters have properly dealt with what happened, I do question whether Josh is/was a pedophile. Moreover, once he was in an "ordinary" relationship, marriage, and especially away in DC from the whole unhealthy environment of his family, he may have moved beyond his repugnant behavior as a 13/14 year old. I don't know; I'm not a therapist and don't play one on TV.

His sisters seem to love their nieces and nephews. Each young woman may choose to develop an individual relationship with Anna, the children, and even Josh, in a way that works for her.

May 23, 2015

There is a topic about that very thing in General Snark. Sorry, can't link the topic from tablet, but I think it's pretty near the top.

Eta: it is called Fundie Reaction Watch

Thanks I haven't been able to tear myself away from Duggar snark.

May 23, 2015

I'm so scared that TLC hasn't outright cancelled the show yet, but the one thing that makes me think they eventually will is that they just can not air more episodes without addressing all of this. And are they really going to want to put two people on tv saying "sexual abuse happened in our family, but we're all good now"??? While the leg humpers are apparently all on the forgive AND forget train, most of the public won't be. And advertisers will NOT want their products associated with a show that will forever be linked with incest/molestation. All articles about the Duggars will mention this now. If they don't, it will be the HUGE elephant in the room.

I just can't see a situation where the Duggars stay on tv. And I most definitely DO NOT want to see a show with just the girls. I don't think they would have any positive actions or advice for fellow sexual abuse survivors and I don't want the brainwashing their parents and upbringing did to them to be put on tv for other people to buy into.

I wonder if Discovery Networks is owned by someone with ATI connections.... Or if the Duggars have some serious blackmail information. More serious than Josh touching his sisters.

May 23, 2015

One thing I've been wondering is what if Josh really is sorry?

What if - through some magically divine intervention - manual labor camp worked and he did "recover" so to speak. Or at least never acted upon those urges again.

What if his sisters really have forgiven him and everything is all peachy in Duggarland?

Public fallout aside, is it possible for Josh to continue his life with his family?

This is not the first family who has dealt with sex abuse within the ranks. I'm sure it's not the first family who will want to keep the whole family together. Is there a way you can do that in the best of circumstances and not do more damage to the victims?

I don't believe he is though. His statement is all about how it would effect HIM. "It would ruin MY LIFE." He called it a "teenage mistake". My teenage mistakes involved booze, like sneaking it into prom, I didn't sexually assault anyone. Neither did my friends.

I don't think everything is peachy in Duggarland. There's too much tension in that house. I saw it before this was brought to light now it just has a different edge.

May 23, 2015

Short answer: maybe. It'll always be more complicated than in situations where molestation didn't happen. The thing is that normal people do not expect victims to heal all at once and never feel bad again. I have a very superficial relationship with my brother (my abuser). We're facebook friends, and we talk on the phone once every year or two. This whole Josh Duggar thing has been very triggering for me. I told my mom that right now, I do not want her to give my brother any information about me, not even superficial information like "Honeysuckle came for supper the other night." And my mom, who is a reasonable adult human, said "Of course."

In a situation like the Duggars, where they are actively members of an oppressive religion that tramples on the rights of women, I do not think the victims would have a real voice. They would not have the ability to say "Can we not have Josh over tonight? I just can't deal." Because they would have been told that they should just move past this. After all, their abuser repented. What the hell else do they want from him? Are they going to make him feel bad forever? Why, they should be lucky he even wants to talk to them, they basically ruined his life.

So, I can see a situation where JB and M pretend everything is fine and continue to allow Josh around their family, but I cannot see it happening in a way that is respectful and protective of the victims first and foremost.

Sorry that happened to you.

I agree and feel that that everything is very unlikely to be peachy in Duggarland. Not really. Parents with even a vague understanding of the complex emotions involved in this would not expect or insist on their daughters being around their abuser.

May 23, 2015

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

Then why on earth have any laws, much less to protect those who can't defend themselves?

Next time it comes up, inform the person that that passage isn't truly biblical. christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/aprilweb-only/117-31.0.html#bmb=1

May 23, 2015

I have been a serial lurker on FJ for the last few years - I found Free Jinger around about the time articles were coming out about Jinger wanting a different kind of life, and every time I read something about the Duggars online I instantly thought "I have to see what they are saying on FJ!"

I have just spent the last few days reading every thread here about this - though I may have missed a couple of pages in this one as it got away from me, and as usual I'm very impressed with the mature and sensitive way it is being discussed here.

I have read the police report, and every article online that I can (thankfully I'm a speed reader) as well as comments on Instagram and on their Facebook page - and I'm very torn about the way this has come out this way at this time.

The girls are being thrown under the bus in all this - and from the way Oprah acted in 2006 by instantly passing the information to the police and cancel king their appearance but not saying anything at all publicly, this was something that she was trying to avoid. But The Duggers - in particular Michelle and Josh - have used their popularity to speak out so hatefully recently and with such arrogant hypocrisy that they had to be stopped ... Although I wish the girls could have been spared.

May 23, 2015

A few thoughts:

It is likely they knew something was coming. My mother does bad things and was featured on 60 Minutes. In the weeks leading up to the broadcast, they were reaching out to EVERYONE getting dirt. And people were calling and saying "60 Minutes is calling me about you!" And they contacted my mother to get a quote and let her know they were running the story.

Also, I keep thinking about the fact that JB and Douchelle did the show knowing all of this and how sick that makes me, but then I keep thinking- if they didn't, the girls would have lived in a prison with no chance of escape- no money, no chances, no exposure to the world. Nobody to rely on. I can't decide which is worse. Maybe the fame will give them opportunities for recovery they wouldn't have otherwise had.

May 23, 2015

Yes Josh is a pedophile. I don't believe for a second that he isn't.

This isn't something he did once. This clearly isn't something he felt bad about. He has never expressed any feeling of self-disgust. He has said that he had difficult thoughts. To me, that he implies that he thought about it A LOT. Even if he didn't always act on it, he thought about it. That is pedophilia. A 14 year-old and an 11 year-old? Icky, but not quite pedophilia. An eight-year-old? A FOUR YEAR OLD? Yes. That's pedophilia. 100%. And no one stops being a pedophile overnight. Since being a public figure, he likely knew how career-ending it would be to act, but I have no doubt that he still thinks about it all the time. In a family this secretive, you can almost guarantee that those police reports do not detail the only times it happened.

I hate to sound superior, but thank God and every single deity that I do not live in the US. Not that Canada is that much better, but we have at least less religious scum here. And significantly less religious scum who are politically relevant. To clarify: there are religious people, and there is religious scum. Not all religious people are scumfucks. Just the Duggars, Huckabees, and whichever people seem to think that repenting to God makes actions like these justifiable. How can these conservative folks defend this while their states still have the death penalty for murder? If you repent to God for murder, does that spare you jail time? No? The argument I've heard for this is that "if they were Christian, they would not have committed murder in the first place". Well, if Josh was EVER a Christian at all, he would never have done these things. FTR birth control is evil because it kills gametes/zygotes, but molesting your sisters is okay? Jesus. <---- Speaking of, I'm sure he's very disappointed right now.

May 23, 2015

I have been a serial lurker on FJ for the last few years - I found Free Jinger around about the time articles were coming out about Jinger wanting a different kind of life, and every time I read something about the Duggars online I instantly thought "I have to see what they are saying on FJ!"

I have just spent the last few days reading every thread here about this - though I may have missed a couple of pages in this one as it got away from me, and as usual I'm very impressed with the mature and sensitive way it is being discussed here.

I have read the police report, and every article online that I can (thankfully I'm a speed reader) as well as comments on Instagram and on their Facebook page - and I'm very torn about the way this has come out this way at this time.

The girls are being thrown under the bus in all this - and from the way Oprah acted in 2006 by instantly passing the information to the police and cancel king their appearance but not saying anything at all publicly, this was something that she was trying to avoid. But The Duggers - in particular Michelle and Josh - have used their popularity to speak out so hatefully recently and with such arrogant hypocrisy that they had to be stopped ... Although I wish the girls could have been spared.

It would have been both inappropriate and perhaps illegal for Oprah to publicize a letter that was, to her, essentially, a rumor. She passed it to the proper authorities, as she should have done.

I don't know that the girls are being thrown under the bus so much as Josh is being defended. And at least on FJ, the primary concern seems to be the girls

May 23, 2015

Info on pedophilia: From Wikipedia, so I don't know how accurate it is.

A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years of age, but adolescents must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1][2]

May 23, 2015

Guys, Jill was probably the one who said she wasn't abused.

When you look at the timeline of events from that Daily Mail UK article, it shows that the Oprah interview/finding out occurred in December 2006.

Now let's look at the ages of the kids and their old bios:

JOSH:

age: 25