Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 4

[sisterwives]

I've always found the strip club rumour hard to believe because I didn't even know you could get into strip clubs at that age in the states? Here legal age is 19, but I thought it was 21 for the U.S.?

The legal age for drinking in a strip club is 21. I'm pretty sure that you can go to a strip club under 21 (but over 18) they just will not serve you alcohol.

[Cleopatra7]

Info on pedophilia: From Wikipedia, so I don't know how accurate it is.

A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years of age, but adolescents must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1][2]

Josh may not have been a pedophile per se, but he was definitely a predator who knew what he was doing was wrong.

[veron1que]

Based purely on this timeline, I think you might be right

I agree the GED timeline + the fact that the daughter who said she wasn't abused was the one in charge of cooking (which has been credited to Jill many times, thought Jana cooks to).

However, I do not agree that she is JB's favorite, nor do I agree that that is why she got the big house. IMO, She got the big house because she got married first and she's older, plus her and Derek can afford higher utility bills.

Secondly, though the 5th daughter does not report abuse, this does not mean it never happened. I don't think we can draw conclusions that JB loved her more because she didn't tempt his son.

[feministing]

So I don't think this is going to be very popular but here goes.

I'm from an ultra orthodox background. I'm am atheist now and escaped at age 18.

This kind of thing is ENDEMIC in that community. It's what happens when you teach nothing about the private parts and sex Ed. It becomes forbidden fruit. Kids get curious. They want to see and feel what a girl has because they don't know what it looks like and are completely in the dark. They are often so in the dark they don't even understand that theres something wrong with it. The girls probably felt awkward but didn't understand either. To them it's just a body part.

I think once Jana got her period there must have been some education. That's when they probably realized it was wrong. Gender segregation and purposeful ignorance is extremely dangerous.

Based on what I know of the girls and what I've seen in my own community, I can be definitely sure that Jana was abused. She probably is the most broken because she probably knew what it meant when it was happening as she was old enough. Jill seems by far the most well-adjusted and happy. I suspect she was the one who was spared.

[weezie]

Ohhhh as I value my blood pressure remaining at a normal level I am deciding not to read an article with that link title!!!!!

It's ok, sweetie. Just breathe.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I hope Marjorie ' s family drops the courting like a hot rock, any one with common sense would not let their daughter marry into this train wreck of a family. Maybe since the show is gone the interest will wain.

I'm conflicted on this. I wouldn't want my children near these people, BUT I don't think it's fair that the children besides josh should be punished for his wrongdoings.

[Mylnijya]

In regards to the speculation that Josh himself may have been abused:

Do you all consider it a form of child abuse that he likely saw/heard his parents going at it all the time in that small house?

I don't know that anyone actually touched Josh, but it must have been confusing to him to have his mother pregnant all the time and have JB constantly fondling her all throughout the house and I'm sure he heard them plenty of times. And being completely separated from normal interactions/friendships with girls like he would get in school I think is part of what made him turn to his own siblings. Though... he likely would have done something to a girl at school...

I still can't get over the age of the younger ones... That is such predatory behavior. I read the Matt Walsh article about it and he said something to the effect of "Would you really turn your 14 year old into the cops?"

And I had to think about it... I don't actually know what I would do in terms of police, but I do know I would send my son to go live with my dad or brother and get him counseling and out of the house away from my girls.

I agree that Jana has seen a lot/experienced a lot/been through a lot. FreeJana

[sisterwives]

Based purely on this timeline, I think you might be right

This breaks my heart because it makes a lot of sense. I was kind of hoping to remain ignorant on this part of the scandal but its hard not to when its laid out so clearly.

[Mrs. Figg]

Based purely on this timeline, I think you might be right

On 14kapa Jill said her jurisdiction was the laundry...

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Honestly Nelliebelle, don't bother, I don't even respond to that. I am not going along with all the hysteria and faux Josh, preditor, pedophile experts.

Very important....I was brought up a catholic but an atheist since birth LOL........

But thank you and cheers!

Hysteria would be "Josh touched one of his siblings once and now they're all in danger!"

Hysteria is not "Josh is a predator because he willfully victimized multiple sisters on multiple accounts, sometimes while they slept and sometimes while they were conscious. He also preyed on a friend of the family while she slept on the couch."

[veron1que]

So I don't think this is going to be very popular but here goes.

I'm from an ultra orthodox background. I'm am atheist now and escaped at age 18.

This kind of thing is ENDEMIC in that community. It's what happens when you teach nothing about the private parts and sex Ed. It becomes forbidden fruit. Kids get curious. They want to see and feel what a girl has because they don't know what it looks like and are completely in the dark. They are often so in the dark they don't even understand that theres something wrong with it. The girls probably felt awkward but didn't understand either. To them it's just a body part.

I think once Jana got her period there must have been some education. That's when they probably realized it was wrong. Gender segregation and purposeful ignorance is extremely dangerous.

Based on what I know of the girls and what I've seen in my own community, I can be definitely sure that Jana was abused. She probably is the most broken because she probably knew what it meant when it was happening as she was old enough. Jill seems by far the most well-adjusted and happy. I suspect she was the one who was spared.

All of the girls in the police report were able to communicate that the breasts and the pubic area were private and not to be touched by others. Both the girls and Josh were aware that it was inappropriate. His actions can not be explained by an ignorance of what is and isn't appropriate.

As far as whether fundie culture breeds this kind of abuse, I think you'll find many agree with you.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Sorry, Famy, no one cares. And you can't sing. :dance:

That's not true. I would care if she was the 5th victim.

[Sd11]

I agree the GED timeline + the fact that the daughter who said she wasn't abused was the one in charge of cooking (which has been credited to Jill many times, thought Jana cooks to).

However, I do not agree that she is JB's favorite, nor do I agree that that is why she got the big house. IMO, She got the big house because she got married first and she's older, plus her and Derek can afford higher utility bills.

Secondly, though the 5th daughter does not report abuse, this does not mean it never happened. I don't think we can draw conclusions that JB loved her more because she didn't tempt his son.

If you look at the police reports and the shapes of the redacted names, you can ascertain who is who. The names Jill and Jana have a different shape to them. Take a look and you might change your hypothesis. I could be wrong, but just my two cents.

[Toothfairy]

"God forgives all who accept him into their lives and hearts."

So, by the definition, God forgave Hitler cause he was Christian. I'm rather glad I don't believe in their God. I don't want a God who forgives Hitler.

Except Gays, women who had abortions, and black teens Yet God forgives.

[feministing]

Based on my knowledge - Jill seems by far the most confident of the Duggar sisters. She reminds me of myself (who was spared) and Jinger reminds me of my sister who was molested at age 10 by a family friend's 13 year-old son.

I don't think Josh is a pedophile. He was likely curious and didn't know any better. I blame the parents for espousing these crazy beliefs and hiding info from their kids. I don't think he was attracted to his sisters. He wanted to learn their anatomy. He struck me as a curious, intelligent kid.

I'm not defending Josh. But his parents are the most guilty for totally ignoring this subject, which for a thirteen year-old boy is the elephant in the room. They didn't teach him right from wrong. They were irresponsible.

My parents actually explained to my brother things when he asked them questions which is pretty amazing for that community. He hasn't touched anyone as far as I know.

I also wouldn't be surprised oif 1) he was abused by someone at ATI (like alert cadets or something) or 2) Josh is a psychopath.

He honestly has that pompous vibe to him that is totally different from his brothers.

[feministing]

All of the girls in the police report were able to communicate that the breasts and the pubic area were private and not to be touched by others. Both the girls and Josh were aware that it was inappropriate. His actions can not be explained by an ignorance of what is and isn't appropriate.

As far as whether fundie culture breeds this kind of abuse, I think you'll find many agree with you.

Perhaps they only were told that after Josh was caught?

I suspect only Jana actually was old enough to know. Possibly Jill too but I think she was spared.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Thanks I haven't been able to tear myself away from Duggar snark.

I haven't been able to catch up since this morning.

[sisterwives]

Based on my knowledge - Jill seems by far the most confident of the Duggar sisters. She reminds me of myself (who was spared) and Jinger reminds me of my sister who was molested at age 10 by a family friend's 13 year-old son.

I don't think Josh is a pedophile. He was likely curious and didn't know any better. I blame the parents for espousing these crazy beliefs and hiding info from their kids. I don't think he was attracted to his sisters. He wanted to learn their anatomy. He struck me as a curious, intelligent kid.

I'm not defending Josh. But his parents are the most guilty for totally ignoring this subject, which for a thirteen year-old boy is the elephant in the room. They didn't teach him right from wrong. They were irresponsible.

My parents actually explained to my brother things when he asked them questions which is pretty amazing for that community. He hasn't touched anyone as far as I know.

I also wouldn't be surprised oif 1) he was abused by someone at ATI (like alert cadets or something) or 2) Josh is a psychopath.

He honestly has that pompous vibe to him that is totally different from his brothers.

Sorry I can't stand behind you saying he was curious. His abuse clearly was escalating throughout the timeline detailed in the report. He did it multiple times, with multiple girls, family and non family, while they were sleeping/vulnerable. Curious children do not do that. He clearly knew what he was doing because he lured the youngest victim (4 years) into his lap while reading her a story. Another was cornered in the laundry room. That's not curiosity, that was a very deliberate power play on his part.

And I thought Jessa's jurisdiction was laundry? I heard that was on one of the pre TTH specials.

[Honeysuckle]

Based on my knowledge - Jill seems by far the most confident of the Duggar sisters. She reminds me of myself (who was spared) and Jinger reminds me of my sister who was molested at age 10 by a family friend's 13 year-old son.

I don't think Josh is a pedophile. He was likely curious and didn't know any better. I blame the parents for espousing these crazy beliefs and hiding info from their kids. I don't think he was attracted to his sisters. He wanted to learn their anatomy. He struck me as a curious, intelligent kid.

I'm not defending Josh. But his parents are the most guilty for totally ignoring this subject, which for a thirteen year-old boy is the elephant in the room. They didn't teach him right from wrong. They were irresponsible.

My parents actually explained to my brother things when he asked them questions which is pretty amazing for that community. He hasn't touched anyone as far as I know.

I also wouldn't be surprised oif 1) he was abused by someone at ATI (like alert cadets or something) or 2) Josh is a psychopath.

He honestly has that pompous vibe to him that is totally different from his brothers.

Stating that a teenager doesn't know any better than to molest a preschooler because of "curiosity" in one sentence and calling him "intelligent" in the next seems like a huge incongruity.

Curious teenagers might have one incident of exploration with a similar aged peer. Curious teenagers do not repeatedly sexually assault multiple victims.

[Buzzard]

I'm going to put this out there in a form that small minded apologists can understand.

MISTAKE:

Oh crap, I wasnt paying attention to which machine I was standing in front of and put bleach in the colors and detergent in the whites!

INTENTIONAL ACT

Yesterday I put bleach in the colors and liked how it smelled so I did it again. I dont care that I'm hurting others by ruining their clothes.

You cannot "accidentally" or "mistakenly" molest multiple people over a year. Can you "accidentally" touch someone once? Sure. If a child is falling and you reach out to grab him/her or if you're giving them a boost. Can you "accidentally" touch a child under their clothes when they were fully clothed? Not so much.

ETA -

CURIOUS CHILD

I wonder what happens if I put bleach in the color load. Oh crap! I ruined the clothes, wont do that again!

[imokit]

The demeanours of Jill and Jana can be read either way

1) Jill is happy and most religious because she wasn't abused. Jana was abused and is quiet and seems hurting

2) Jill was abused and turned to religion to keep try and be the best girl she can be, as a form of protection. Jana was not abused, but the knowledge that this happened, that she failed to protect her younger sisters has deeply affected and she is quiet and hurting for that reason.

3) Jill and Jana are that way due to temperament and birth order. Jana as oldest always had more responsibility and pressure. It has nothing to do with Josh.

Which one of the 3, we don't know.

[Taylurker]

Jana was 16 when she got her GED. She was also born in January. That means she already had her GED when the police interviewed all of the kids. Jill would have been 15 and working on her GED when the police interviewed her.

With Jim Bob and Michelle's fucked up views on purity and how it's always the "woman's fault for her behavior, men can't control themselves" crap, then that might be why Jill is the favorite. That might be why she has the big house.

Thoughts?

I don't care what the website says. First of all, in December of 2006, Jana was 16 going on 17. She might not have had her GED yet.

Secondly, every Duggar child interview said they were STILL IN SCHOOL and that their mother was homeschooling them.

-x-

Jill just got lucky to be the first child married while her family had the big bucks and property to give to her.

I'm 100% sure it was Jana who said she was working on her GED.

[Mylnijya]

I don't think Josh is a pedophile. He was likely curious and didn't know any better. I blame the parents for espousing these crazy beliefs and hiding info from their kids. I don't think he was attracted to his sisters. He wanted to learn their anatomy. He struck me as a curious, intelligent kid.

I would agree with you about the pedophile part if the youngest victim wasn't about 4 years old at the time. That is so so very young. It's clearly predatory behavior not just curiosity.

[BlackSheep]

I finally made it to the end of the threads. It is so sad that this happened to those poor girls, it's just heartbreaking. So much of what I want to say has already been said so I won't bother repeating it.

TLC needs to cancel that show and cancel it ASAP. What Josh did was inexcusable, he was 14 and he should have known better. This wasn't just a mistake that happened one time. This happened at least five times to at least five different girls. It's not a mistake, it's predatory behaviour. Josh, however, was still a teenager.

Jim Bob and Michelle, however, were adults. They should have known better. They should have done better. The show needs to be canceled so that these miserable excuses of parents no longer have a platform to spew their hate and pretend their shitty parenting is a good or Christian way to run a household.

Jim Bob and Michelle, through words and actions, have long pretended to protect and shelter their children from the evils of the world. They claimed their children were like flowers and that they, as their parents, were the only ones who could protect them. They claimed they were protecting their children but they were not.

They protested a convenience store selling alcohol in order to protect their children from getting drunk.

They protested transgendered people being allowed to use the proper bathroom just in case somebody used it as an excuse to prey on innocent children.

They protested same sex marriage, again presumably to protect their children.

They protested abortion to protect the lives of what they saw as unborn children.

But, when there was somebody sexually assaulting their daughters in their own home they did next to nothing. They covered it up. They were too busy protesting the outside world they failed to protect their children from their own brother. They sent the assaulter to a construction site and then they invited him back into their home. Essentially, they did nothing to effect any real change for anybody. And then, even worse, they lavished privilege after privilege on Josh. They continued to blame all the evils of the world on abstract threats that had little to no bearing on their life or their children. They did this while they ignored the threat that was living in their home.

They failed as parents. They failed as Christians. They failed as decent human beings. They failed their daughters. They failed Josh. They failed Anna. They failed their grandchildren. They failed to protect the people in their life who needed them the most. And they failed miserably and spectacularly. And all the while they condemned everyone else when they were the ones who were acting completely immorally. They put their children in danger and blamed everyone else. And they don't even realize what they did was wrong.

This. Couldn't have said it better myself. Well said, Boogalou.

[Toothfairy]

I've always found the strip club rumour hard to believe because I didn't even know you could get into strip clubs at that age in the states? Here legal age is 19, but I thought it was 21 for the U.S.?

Trust and believe there are minors drinking and in clubs.