Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 4

[polecat]

I've said this before and I'll say this again.

As someone who used to be in this world and am now out....

They don't look at this situation like normal people look at it. Deep down in their hearts, they truly believe that if this person (whether Josh or "Bill") sincerely repents and apologizes, it's as if it never happened. I know that is hard for most people to comprehend, bu that is the reality of these people. If they show that they don't forgive these people for repenting, it looks bad on THEM, *not* the abusers. Of course none of them did the right thing in actual reality. But in THEIR reality, everything was done by the books and everyone is suppose to pretend like it never happened.

I grew up in this world, too, and it is thankfully long behind me, and I stand by what I said, especially the bolded part.

They use God as a "get out of jail free" card. It gives the men license to behave any way they want, but that same privilege is NOT extended to the women, which is why at 6 years old, I learned that I was a slut who deserved the beating I got because an older boy put his hands on me. A girl who has been touched is dirty, damaged, broken. This is my experience. This was my life.

Fuck them all.

[eh02]

The Duggars better run for the hills if Jim Bob has ever laid a hand on any of those kids. I have always said people shouldn't go by the "creep factor" but after all of this, and the way we all stuck up for Josh and assumed the rumors were untrue...it's hard not to worry about Jim Bob, too.

It's worrying that he has no problem with his wife feeling the need to talk about how she has to be "available for him at all times" because "anyone can make him a sandwich, but only (I) can (have sex with him)." That he seems totally OK with her being characterized as some sexual object while there is 0 mention of him needing to have the same kind of availability for her.

Looking back at all the sexual jokes he made in front of his kids, considering they were molested, is really troubling.

[Boogalou]

I finally made it to the end of the threads. It is so sad that this happened to those poor girls, it's just heartbreaking. So much of what I want to say has already been said so I won't bother repeating it.

TLC needs to cancel that show and cancel it ASAP. What Josh did was inexcusable, he was 14 and he should have known better. This wasn't just a mistake that happened one time. This happened at least five times to at least five different girls. It's not a mistake, it's predatory behaviour. Josh, however, was still a teenager.

Jim Bob and Michelle, however, were adults. They should have known better. They should have done better. The show needs to be canceled so that these miserable excuses of parents no longer have a platform to spew their hate and pretend their shitty parenting is a good or Christian way to run a household.

Jim Bob and Michelle, through words and actions, have long pretended to protect and shelter their children from the evils of the world. They claimed their children were like flowers and that they, as their parents, were the only ones who could protect them. They claimed they were protecting their children but they were not.

They protested a convenience store selling alcohol in order to protect their children from getting drunk.

They protested transgendered people being allowed to use the proper bathroom just in case somebody used it as an excuse to prey on innocent children.

They protested same sex marriage, again presumably to protect their children.

They protested abortion to protect the lives of what they saw as unborn children.

But, when there was somebody sexually assaulting their daughters in their own home they did next to nothing. They covered it up. They were too busy protesting the outside world they failed to protect their children from their own brother. They sent the assaulter to a construction site and then they invited him back into their home. Essentially, they did nothing to effect any real change for anybody. And then, even worse, they lavished privilege after privilege on Josh. They continued to blame all the evils of the world on abstract threats that had little to no bearing on their life or their children. They did this while they ignored the threat that was living in their home.

They failed as parents. They failed as Christians. They failed as decent human beings. They failed their daughters. They failed Josh. They failed Anna. They failed their grandchildren. They failed to protect the people in their life who needed them the most. And they failed miserably and spectacularly. And all the while they condemned everyone else when they were the ones who were acting completely immorally. They put their children in danger and blamed everyone else. And they don't even realize what they did was wrong.

[Jinderella]

If this is the kind of counseling Josh was given, he just came away from it thinking his sisters had to be more modest and he shouldn't change diapers.

Makes me worry for Mac.

Not just Mack, but all the children involved :cry:

[mamallama]

Trying to figure out how to post this prominently on the Duggar facebook page:

[twinmama]

And this quote series has to be my favourite.

The thing is, you idiot, they don't. A 17 year old having sex with another 17 year old is not fucking molestations. 14 year old Josh wasn't messing around with a 14 year old girl who was consenting. He was sneaking into his sisters bedrooms - with some as young as 4 or 5 years old - and touching them while they slept. And yes, it does count as consent if they're both under 18. The age difference varies by state but if they're both under 18 and within two or so years of each other, it does count as consent.

But what really pisses me off is that her entire argument in this paragraph is a straw man argument. None of this has anything to do with Josh molesting his sisters and other girls to whom he had easy access. Absolutely nothing. And quite frankly, I find it extremely dangerous - and offensive - for her to compare consensual sex between two highschoolers to the actions of a young teenager sneaking into young children's rooms while they slept so he can touch them, and then trap them in the laundry room so he can touch them, and then lure them to him with a book so he can touch them. Of course, in the world of Gothard, this is normal bc all sins are equal.

4 year old girl. Once again, no one can deny that a 14 year old and a 4 year old is different than two teenagers. I want to see the reasoning they use to say that's the same because it will have to be a doozy. Is the person who posted this a teenager themself? Because it's painfully naive and seems like such a teenage response to their idol being accused of something awful.

[Jinderella]

Trying to figure out how to post this prominently on the Duggar facebook page:

How do they know if God forgave him? Did God call them?

Serious question, I'm not Christian...

[weezie]

I so wish we could upvote posts! So many things said that are spot on and concisely outline how utterly fucked up this situation is! I wish I could ask the three offenders - Josh, Jim Bob and Michelle a few questions while they are under oath. Man... the lawyer that gets to do that, if it ever happens, has such a monumental task. What would you ask? I think I would ask Josh if he himself had been abused. And then I would ask the parents why, after the first incident, and after the second one,did they allow Josh to be alone with little girls?

Probably not relevant to go down that road, and the thought of them testifying just brings up a shit load of pain for the girls, but I just have to know, to understand why a parent would fail, in choosing to cover up the sins of one to the detriment of 4 known victims and potentially more.

[eh02]

Why do all of the leghumpers keep acting like this is just a matter of forgiveness, or some personal journey for Josh where we should give a shit whether he learned a lesson or is a better man now?

Forgiveness is totally irrelevant to punishment and taking responsibility. Josh CLEARLY still does not understand the severity of what he did because his OFFICIAL STATEMENT said he thought continuing to molest his sisters would have "ruined his life."

You can forgive anyone. Forgiveness is not the issue here. I could forgive someone who murdered someone. That doesn't mean I'd let them into my house or want them out of prison.

Josh did something wrong. Fine, forgive him, if you want to. But forgiveness doesn't mean "act like nothing happened." He never had any consequences for his actions, and more importantly, never received any real treatment. And the biggest issue here is that his family continued to fail the victims for another decade after this happened. It's not just about "Josh learning a lesson." It's an ongoing tragedy because the people who were hurt did NOT get the resources and support they needed even well after this mess occurred.

Their method of handling this is, "Jesus forgives, so get over it!" Yeah, not much evidence that that technique is very therapeutic for abuse victims.

[MisUndrstd]

I went to the official TLC website and although they have suspended 19KAC from their viewing line-up, they've taken nothing off of their website anything about the Duggars, they even STILL have a tab for Josh and Anna, with videos. I can bet they are in the Duggar house right now filming so they can air a redemption special. What message does this send to the girls that are victims, "Sorry... Not sorry... we have a show to do, your pain will have to wait"! I'm appalled how TLC has handled things, they have the ability to do something right for those girls, they can offer them counseling and give them privacy but instead I have a feeling they will exploit their pain and suffering. If Jim-Bob and Michelle allow those girls to be filmed for some type of a "Redemption: We forgive Josh" special, I'll lose my cool.

[eh02]

I went to the official TLC website and although they have suspended 19KAC from their viewing line-up, they've taken nothing off of their website anything about the Duggars, they even STILL have a tab for Josh and Anna, with videos. I can bet they are in the Duggar house right now filming so they can air a redemption special. What message does this send to the girls that are victims, "Sorry... Not sorry... we have a show to do, your pain will have to wait"! I'm appalled how TLC has handled things, they have the ability to do something right for those girls, they can offer them counseling and give them privacy but instead I have a feeling they will exploit their pain and suffering. If Jim-Bob and Michelle allow those girls to be filmed for some type of a "Redemption: We forgive Josh" special, I'll lose my cool.

Denial has been so deeply shoved down those girls' throats that they probably can't even acknowledge that they have any pain about this. They were told to get over it a looong time ago and everyone likely acted like if they weren't over it by now, then it was THEIR problem.

I don't think they will have any "we forgive Josh" special. I don't think we will see Josh on a TLC show ever again. Even putting Michelle or Jim Bob on might be pushing it.

[nelliebelle1197]

I am bringing this over from the other thread because it is really making me see red.

Ofglen wrote:

latraviata here is not a psychiatrist, and if they are, they're the worst one i've ever met. They're just saying that to sound credible. If they can prove it, by all means, I'm open. But... We will see... :shifty-kitty:

Tons of young teenagers entering puberty don't have access to quality sex education/know what's going on with their bodies. It's not just quiverfull that has this problem, though quiverfull does exacerbate it. An important difference between Josh and those other kids was that Josh sought out younger girls in vulnerable situations when he KNEW it was wrong, and he did this CONTINUOUSLY. He preyed on them. He felt entitled to them. A normal person experiencing sexual frustration, no matter how strong it is or how little they understand about what's going on with their own body, understands that they cannot do what Josh did. It was not about sex. It was about power.

And who the hell are you? You have been around here around 5 months and have done very little to prove yourself even remotely thoughtful. Your entire closed minded schtick, which basically revolves around posting random articles that rarely stand up to vetting to back up your often crack pot ideas, is fairly laughable and a little sad.

How dare you attack latraviata like that? She not a psychiatrist, she is a psychologist from the Netherlands with two sons, one of which is a doctor and the other of which passed away early. She was brought up Catholic and sews children's clothes as a hobby. Her avatar is her actual photo. She loves opera and her sons with passion. She has been on freejinger since Yuku. I know who she is, but whoever the fuck you are is a mystery I care not to solve.

[Cheetah]

Dang, people, I can't keep up here! Over 10 pages behind again, but want to respond to this one before I forget where I saw it:

From toothfairy in part 3:

"I don't understand why JimChelle are still in this cult. This cult didn't protect their kids. It harm them. First Josh their own kid then their leader. How can they sit back and allow shit like this to happen? How can they be so damn heartless. I read stories on recovering grace about parents finally seeing the light and getting out of their cult. They apologize to their children for the damage they've done. I wish JimChelle would do this. They need to get away from Gothard fast, enroll their children in real school, and get everyone therapy with the money they pimped off their kids. Unfortunately I don't see this happening. It's also sad to know that there are other fundie families that keep abuse a secret like this. JimChelle are two horrible worthless people who didn't deserve children."

I have this suspicion that one or both of JB and M have a family history of child sex abuse, and that their going down the Gothard path was in response to that. That they thought that this was the way to protect kids. And when it turned out that Golden Child Josh had some of the same behaviors as Uncle Creepo, the response was not to say, "oops, guess this isn't the right answer either" but to double down even more strongly on the "boys are all natural pervs and it's the job of the girls to make sure he keeps it in check until he's married" nonsense.

[mamallama]

Jinderella, I have no idea, I'm not really Christian and certainly not fundie. The song is a snarky response to some one saying they're born again so now his wife who he cheated on should take him back.

[twinmama]

I'm so scared that TLC hasn't outright cancelled the show yet, but the one thing that makes me think they eventually will is that they just can not air more episodes without addressing all of this. And are they really going to want to put two people on tv saying "sexual abuse happened in our family, but we're all good now"??? While the leg humpers are apparently all on the forgive AND forget train, most of the public won't be. And advertisers will NOT want their products associated with a show that will forever be linked with incest/molestation. All articles about the Duggars will mention this now. If they don't, it will be the HUGE elephant in the room.

I just can't see a situation where the Duggars stay on tv. And I most definitely DO NOT want to see a show with just the girls. I don't think they would have any positive actions or advice for fellow sexual abuse survivors and I don't want the brainwashing their parents and upbringing did to them to be put on tv for other people to buy into.

[bella8050]

4 year old girl. Once again, no one can deny that a 14 year old and a 4 year old is different than two teenagers. I want to see the reasoning they use to say that's the same because it will have to be a doozy. Is the person who posted this a teenager themself? Because it's painfully naive and seems like such a teenage response to their idol being accused of something awful.

I (regrettably) spent some time the last two days reading the comment sections of People, US, etc. There were so many responses that were downplaying the situation because they jumped to the idea that the "mistakes" were between Josh and another teenager that were "experimenting." People either didn't know about or care to look up the police report, or were in flat out denial about it's contents. Josh's vague statement, TLC's statement of expressing their sorrow to the "victims and the family" and the omission by 95% of the media's reporting that the Duggar girls were among the victims has not helped. Even when confronted with the facts there were people who were still insisting the Duggar girls were not involved. Basically anything people can think of to justify or downplay is out there now.

[DIRTYPILLOWS]

I grew up in this world, too, and it is thankfully long behind me, and I stand by what I said, especially the bolded part.

They use God as a "get out of jail free" card. It gives the men license to behave any way they want, but that same privilege is NOT extended to the women, which is why at 6 years old, I learned that I was a slut who deserved the beating I got because an older boy put his hands on me. A girl who has been touched is dirty, damaged, broken. This is my experience. This was my life.

Fuck them all.

Oh my sweet honey, I am so very very sorry for what you went through. I feel worse and worse. I had no idea the rabbit hole went so deep. I thought because they were ''The Perfect Family'' they were getting support. I had no idea about this cult. I don't know what to say.

[twinmama]

I (regrettably) spent some time the last two days reading the comment sections of People, US, etc. There were so many responses that were downplaying the situation because they jumped to the idea that the "mistakes" were between Josh and another teenager that were "experimenting." People either didn't know about or care to look up the police report, or were in flat out denial about it's contents. Josh's vague statement, TLC's statement of expressing their sorrow to the "victims and the family" and the omission by 95% of the media's reporting that the Duggar girls were among the victims has not helped. Even when confronted with the facts there were people who were still insisting the Duggar girls were not involved. Basically anything people can think of to justify or downplay is out there now.

OK! I can totally understand if someone is an idiot who doesn't actually look into this before commenting and thinks it was two consenting 14 year olds. THAT is excusable (though come on, who in their right mind thinks that two 14 year olds making out or having consensual sex would produce a scandal of this magnitude!?!). I can't really value the opinion of people who don't know the real facts as reported in the police report.

[twinmama]

I grew up in this world, too, and it is thankfully long behind me, and I stand by what I said, especially the bolded part.

They use God as a "get out of jail free" card. It gives the men license to behave any way they want, but that same privilege is NOT extended to the women, which is why at 6 years old, I learned that I was a slut who deserved the beating I got because an older boy put his hands on me. A girl who has been touched is dirty, damaged, broken. This is my experience. This was my life.

Fuck them all.

Indeed, fuck them all. Polecat I am so, so glad that you seem to realize nothing was your fault and that you are a worthy person with value! I hope the Duggar girls will know this some day too. Nothing but hugs and respect from me.

[QuiverfullOfTea]

How do they know if God forgave him? Did God call them?

Serious question, I'm not Christian...

They know God forgave them--for the Bible tells them so. :pray:

openbible.info/topics/gods_forgiveness

[gustava]

When the issue of Josh potentially being abused himself, JB's name comes up. But why not Michelle's? After all, if I understand correctly, the "tattler" went to JB, not Michelle.

[weezie]

4 year old girl. Once again, no one can deny that a 14 year old and a 4 year old is different than two teenagers. I want to see the reasoning they use to say that's the same because it will have to be a doozy. Is the person who posted this a teenager themself? Because it's painfully naive and seems like such a teenage response to their idol being accused of something awful.

Holy shitballs. If two consenting teens aged 16 and above are are to be considered molesters, then why in the hell aren't the courts clogged with cases of these crimes? Because IT ISN'T THE SAME!!! think about the ages, you leghumper. 4 years old. Still riding in a car seat. Has yet to lose a tooth. can't tie her own shoes. Has not entered puberty. A teenager, a pubescent teen with urges and hormones, consenting, is a completely different situation. and, to boot, SOME VICTIMS WERE HIS SISTERS! To equate those two is sickening.

[JessaBlessa]

I'm so scared that TLC hasn't outright cancelled the show yet, but the one thing that makes me think they eventually will is that they just can not air more episodes without addressing all of this. And are they really going to want to put two people on tv saying "sexual abuse happened in our family, but we're all good now"??? While the leg humpers are apparently all on the forgive AND forget train, most of the public won't be. And advertisers will NOT want their products associated with a show that will forever be linked with incest/molestation. All articles about the Duggars will mention this now. If they don't, it will be the HUGE elephant in the room.

I just can't see a situation where the Duggars stay on tv. And I most definitely DO NOT want to see a show with just the girls. I don't think they would have any positive actions or advice for fellow sexual abuse survivors and I don't want the brainwashing their parents and upbringing did to them to be put on tv for other people to buy into.

I'm reminded of Josie (after the seizure episode) saying "I'm all better now."

[MrsWorkfromhome]

How do they know if God forgave him? Did God call them?

Serious question, I'm not Christian...

I am Christian, NOT Fundie. And I have always been taught that God forgives everyone, all they have to do is confess their to God, and ask for forgiveness, This is why Jesus gave his life, for our sins, and then rose again overcoming the sin and allowing us to have forgiveness. Only God can judge our heart and know if we truly are "sorry". That is what I believe anyway.

This however does not mean that forgiveness "fixes" you. And it certainly doesn't mean that Josh doesn't have to be held accountable for his actions. I have never been taught to just "pray" something away and feel better. Just based off my life experiences and also being Christian, the Duggars do not in anyway represent what the majority of Christians believe or behave like. I hope people realize that...

[twinmama]

The saddest thing is that all the people who are supposed to have protected the girls and stood up for them have failed them.

I so agree. As a mom (and a person, not to insinuate that non-parents don't care about kids!!), the betrayal of the parents is almost as bad as the betrayal of the brother. I grew up with my mom being the place I could go for anything. The person that ALWAYS made things better for me. Even as an adult when I realized she didn't know any better than I did and had no actual super powers, when my kids were in the NICU fighting for their lives, my mom could help make my day better by telling me it would be alright. It makes me sick to think that the Duggar girls had NO ONE to protect them.

Protecting your kids is like the main point and job of parenting. Even if you have to protect them from another one of your children, your job is to do that. Sacrificing several of your kids for one of them is not an option.