Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 4

[nelliebelle1197]

I think I asked this in another thread, but I can't find it now.

IS there a summary posted somewhere of the police report? I had a hard time reading it with my older eyes.

Also, is it correct to call Josh a child molester? I mean yes, technically he molested children, but as a child himself at the time, who else would he have had access to?

I am not saying this to diminish the horror of what he did. I am just saying that the only victims that he had access to on a regular basis were children. This does not necessarily mean that he is a pedophile. Rather, it suggests that as a child, he took advantage of victims in close proximity and whom he has some authority over because as the oldest male child, he no doubt had some authority over the littles.

Josh is a creeper and likely his creepiness still exists, even if it might be more controlled now. I guess I am asking this question because I want some sort of reassurance that his own children will be safe. I want to know that he isn't attracted to children. It breaks my heart to think that he might be repressing sexual urges towards children and some day his defenses will weaken and his kids will be a risk.

PM halcionne. She did the summary.

[weezie]

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

Then why on earth have any laws, much less to protect those who can't defend themselves?

[Escapefromfundiedom]

I so agree. As a mom (and a person, not to insinuate that non-parents don't care about kids!!), the betrayal of the parents is almost as bad as the betrayal of the brother. I grew up with my mom being the place I could go for anything. The person that ALWAYS made things better for me. Even as an adult when I realized she didn't know any better than I did and had no actual super powers, when my kids were in the NICU fighting for their lives, my mom could help make my day better by telling me it would be alright. It makes me sick to think that the Duggar girls had NO ONE to protect them.

Protecting your kids is like the main point and job of parenting. Even if you have to protect them from another one of your children, your job is to do that. Sacrificing several of your kids for one of them is not an option.

THIS.

My mom is a narcissist. Like clinical level NPD. I love her very much. Sometimes we get along and sometimes we don't - but my mom is basically always about my mom. Even the things that I've gone through in life - in her book, they're all about her.

I see a lot of similarities to my mom in Michelle's behavior. I suspect that these poor children learned long before this incident (I don't know, maybe around the time they were being blanket trained) that the person who was supposed to be their safe harbor in this world - the one who was supposed to always make things better - was not that person at all.

This to me is one of the most heart breaking aspects of the whole Duggar Family story. And if the in-laws and spouses of the married girls are sticking by these sick bastards...it makes it all the worse.

[MatthewDuggar]

Regarding the crew member account of Michelle's reaction to a gay crew member, I don't buy that it went down like it was said. It's all too perfect of a "what if this happened type story. I do believe they have a no-gay crew member clause.

Also, the Duggars had been to big cities before TLC came along, so they weren't as super-ignorant as the commenter is saying. Specifically, there are photos out there of them in DC when they had like 10 kids. Their first book talks about the trips they went on.

The Duggars are dumb as rocks and certainly didn't do the right thing at the time, but it also makes me wonder how much of this goes on in other large families (not just fundie) because I've heard a similar story before.

I just can't believe they thought it could all be brushed under the rug. Josh's huge head of entitlement always pissed me off, now more than ever!!

[twinmama]

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

Then why on earth have any laws, much less to protect those who can't defend themselves?

That plus the whole no sin is worse than any other sin is pretty insane in circumstances like this. I mean... I took god's name in vain when I said "Oh my god!" when I stubbed my toe, is that as bad as molesting your sisters!? Guess I better not judge Josh then...

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Sorry if I'm repeating something that has been already mentioned- but I was just wondering if all the various families that have stayed with the Duggars were aware of Josh's past- the Bates, the Hartono's, the Queries etc.

Were they ever made aware that they were taking their children into the home of a child molester.

You know after Josh, JB and Michelle I think the people I'm most disgusted with are the Kellers, not just Anna for marrying him, but also her parents for letting her, and for sending Suzanna to go and stay with him knowing what he was.

I think that he Duggars informed them that Josh had "made some mistakes sexually" but attended the ATI programs and found God, and they all accepted him as being fixed.

[silverspoons]

It seems we can forget about Ben's family as being a whistleblower or even supporting Jessa.

Guinn Seewald posted in Support of Josh & Huckabee's comments! :angry-banghead:

[RMB863]

Hi, long time lurker here, newly registered.

I've read most of the threads and have a few questions/comments.

1. Did anyone else notice that the first Duggar child interviewed said that they weren't allowed to be touched "anywhere between [her] neck and [her] feet"? That is very different to what all of the other children said. My hunch is that either she wasn't coached (and the others were) or that for some reason this child was taught differently to the other girls. I know they are fundies but that seems excessive and strange.

2. There was some discussion upthread about the child who was asked about the male and female genitalia (and called them both pee-pee holders), my feeling from reading it that the child was a male and so the investigator asked him to name male specific body parts as well as female. Two of the J-boys would have been 5 & 7 so plenty young enough (when you factor for a sheltered(ish) environment) to still be using phrases like "pee-pee holder".

The investigator will have been checking that they had not been molested too, looking at their ages it seems they spoke to almost all of the Duggar kids who were old enough to talk except for josh (maybe short of 1?).

3. Not necessarily related but s omeone posted a picture of the Duggars circa 2002. Did it look to anyone else that one of the older two girl's hair (on the right of the shot, probably Jana) was oddly short for a fundie? Looks almost like a pixie cut.

4. Most importantly, my heart goes out to those girls. However unlikely it might be I'm hoping against hope that they escape.

[polecat]

They know God forgave them--for the Bible tells them so. :pray:

openbible.info/topics/gods_forgiveness

I think a lot of Christians have been fed a big fat lie about forgiveness. Yes, I do believe that God can forgive everything, but that doesn't mean that He does forgive everything. If a person doesn't repent in the least (and given how pompous and self-absorbed that apology was -- no, Josh did not repent in any way),

This link was super helpful for me when I was trying to find answers on this very topic: luke173ministries.org/466805

[weezie]

That plus the whole no sin is worse than any other sin is pretty insane in circumstances like this. I mean... I took god's name in vain when I said "Oh my god!" when I stubbed my toe, is that as bad as molesting your sisters!? Guess I better not judge Josh then...

Exactly. It is a slippery slope, when you start making laws because, well, Jesus and all. That wasn't intended to mock religion, but rather point out that laws and religion can coexist, and that hiding behind faith to avoid the consequences of criminal behavior is not an act that Jesus would do. Let God free your soul. Let our laws and constitution protect our citizens, especially the vulnerable.

[mamallama]

That plus the whole no sin is worse than any other sin is pretty insane in circumstances like this. I mean... I took god's name in vain when I said "Oh my god!" when I stubbed my toe, is that as bad as molesting your sisters!? Guess I better not judge Josh then...

I swear, reading the facebook comments is making me want to go out and persecute me some Christians.

[mebeforee]

I have trouble deciding what the proper course of action would be in this situation. The issue SHOULD have been addressed at the time of the assaults, because by now, if it hasn't resolved it would surely be much harder to treat. But I do consider Josh to have also been a child at the time. He was a child assaulting other children. I don't know that it indicates he would continue these things as an adult. I know it's not a perfect comparison, but remembering my feelings at 13 and 14, of course I was attracted to other people around my age. I probably wouldn't have done anything physical with them, but the attraction was there. Now I can hardly even see an 18 year old boy as being an adult, they all look like kids to me, and I think that's a normal development. What Josh did at the time wasn't normal behavior, but he was still a child and I can accept that the attractions one feels at 14 are not the same as an adult's desires. Most troubling to me is that no one involved seemed to receive proper, trained counseling from a psychologist with a degree. Who knows if the issues involved in this were ever addressed beyond 'pray for guidance and forgiveness', which isn't helpful in these scenarios. I like to hope that Josh isn't a risk to children at this point in his life because, as an adult, children are not considered peers or acceptable romantic partners. But I don't know for sure. This whole situation is so disturbing. He should be held accountable, and absolutely everything should be done to ensure that the victims of the assaults have received helpful counseling that allows them to move on with their lives without being forced to 'forgive' something or be blamed for 'their part' in the assaults that happened. I just have a hard time seeing him as an adult preying on children when he was so young at the time, too. The parents should have been more aware of what was happening with their son that led to these events and should have been putting him in counseling after the very first one, not just waiting to see if it got worse. WTF, Duggars. I don't understand how they handled this at all.

[Cheetah]

Two totally unrelated things:

1. totally new FJ people, and people who have been around before but are just catching up: welcome but please please please read at least 10 or so pages of this thread before asking a question like "does anyone think maybe Josh was molested himself?" or "maybe this is why Jana always seems sad" or "wow, how do we know it was really his sisters?" This thread is moving at the speed of light anyway and I know you don't have time to read it all but cutting down on stuff that gets covered every 5 pages when someone new joins the convo will at least help keep it from moving so fast.

Thank you!!

2. Up thread, back in part 3, there was some talk about whether this show could come back mostly as-is but just without Josh. Frankly, I think JB and Michelle need to go as well. Could they do a show without them? Well... there could be (as suggested) one featuring just Jill and Derick and Jessa and Ben, but I'm not sure "Derick goes to the orthodontist.... again..." will sustain interest for long. So the question is, could you do a show that brings in all the younger kids but without their parents involved? Probably not. But watching Michelle's talking heads has been painful for a while now... she is so smug and yet dumb... and there's no way I'd watch any more of her unless she has a severe change of world view. JB, too.

[polecat]

Indeed, fuck them all. Polecat I am so, so glad that you seem to realize nothing was your fault and that you are a worthy person with value! I hope the Duggar girls will know this some day too. Nothing but hugs and respect from me.

Thank you. :) This was all 35 years ago ... I've come a long way since then. I don't think the Duggar girls have an easy row to hoe by any stretch, but I do think they can find healing and peace. Unfortunately, whereas most parents would do everything they could to help their children find that healing and peace, the Duggar girls and unnamed victim are highly likely to be left on their own.

[ILoveJellybeans]

They failed Josh too. He never got actual help for what he did, just covered it up. A child doing such a thing needs some kind of professional help to make sure he doesn't reoffend or become a sexual predator as an adult.

[twinmama]

My mom is a narcissist. Like clinical level NPD. I love her very much. Sometimes we get along and sometimes we don't - but my mom is basically always about my mom. Even the things that I've gone through in life - in her book, they're all about her.

I see a lot of similarities to my mom in Michelle's behavior. I suspect that these poor children learned long before this incident (I don't know, maybe around the time they were being blanket trained) that the person who was supposed to be their safe harbor in this world - the one who was supposed to always make things better - was not that person at all.

This to me is one of the most heart breaking aspects of the whole Duggar Family story. And if the in-laws and spouses of the married girls are sticking by these sick bastards...it makes it all the worse.

I'm so sorry. Every kid deserves a mom who makes them feel safe, loved and important.

In reading about the whole Duggar thing now, I have had moments where I think maybe it's better that they are adamant about the whole it's in the past and forgiven thing. Maybe the girls don't see it for the horrific big deal that it is/was. Anything to lessen their pain. But then, not living in reality is really just putting off the inevitable realization that it was a horrific thing that happened to them and they should deal with it.

[singsingsing]

I honestly cannot see how the show could come back at this point, without TLC turning it into a completely different show. Even if they removed Josh and his family, even if they removed Jim Bob and Michelle, the whole "Gosh darnit we're just a sweet Christian family with a whole lotta kids and we're so wholesome it hurts!" is obviously not going to hold up now. I can't see the Duggars agreeing to participate in a 'Breaking Amish' sort of thing, so that's that.

[Idolatry]

Up thread, back in part 3, there was some talk about whether this show could come back mostly as-is but just without Josh. Frankly, I think JB and Michelle need to go as well. Could they do a show without them? Well... there could be (as suggested) one featuring just Jill and Derick and Jessa and Ben, but I'm not sure "Derick goes to the orthodontist.... again..." will sustain interest for long. So the question is, could you do a show that brings in all the younger kids but without their parents involved? Probably not. But watching Michelle's talking heads has been painful for a while now... she is so smug and yet dumb... and there's no way I'd watch any more of her unless she has a severe change of world view. JB, too.

I agree. There's no "very special" episode that can fix this.

The only way they are coming back is in a "Breaking Duggar" context. I'm still rooting for Jinger!

[weezie]

Haha, mamallama! Wonder what other religions say about molesting preschoolers? Oh. Right. We are a Christian nation. Silly me.

Worship however you choose, but follow the laws of the country in which you choose to reside. don't like the law that protects people from sexual predators? Then change it or don't behave like one.

[bella8050]

OK! I can totally understand if someone is an idiot who doesn't actually look into this before commenting and thinks it was two consenting 14 year olds. THAT is excusable (though come on, who in their right mind thinks that two 14 year olds making out or having consensual sex would produce a scandal of this magnitude!?!). I can't really value the opinion of people who don't know the real facts as reported in the police report.

That's one of the things I had the hardest times with reading the responses on People, etc. Why would something consensual with two same aged kids be investigated, and why would Josh have to apologize for it. However those people were not interested in logic. I had to just stop reading the comments it was making my blood boil.

[Jaksmum]

I know it's terrible!! I can't imagine how embarrassed Jessa is! I wonder how execs at Harpo knew about this and reported it and yet it never leaked until NOW! I wonder how Cathy feels or Marjorie's family all of these families are tied to theDuggars for life!

I hope Marjorie ' s family drops the courting like a hot rock, any one with common sense would not let their daughter marry into this train wreck of a family. Maybe since the show is gone the interest will wain.

[twinmama]

They failed Josh too. He never got actual help for what he did, just covered it up. A child doing such a thing needs some kind of professional help to make sure he doesn't reoffend or become a sexual predator as an adult.

Especially since they facilitated and condoned him getting married and having children of his own. So they also kind of failed their grandchildren by not getting him appropriate help. I just hope, hope, hope that his issues are somehow in the past and his children haven't been hurt. Honestly, having a known child abuser as a father will probably be a huge burden as it is, even if they haven't been abused themselves.

[weezie]

I haven't been able to watch TV lately, but have any of the news talk shows covered this, with people defending Josh? Links? I realize to point out that the victims are people that many Americans are familiar with would harm the girls as they struggle to take steps toward healing. However, is anyone publicly holding JB/M up as contributory with their actions to cover the crime?

[ILoveJellybeans]

I'm so sorry. Every kid deserves a mom who makes them feel safe, loved and important.

In reading about the whole Duggar thing now, I have had moments where I think maybe it's better that they are adamant about the whole it's in the past and forgiven thing. Maybe the girls don't see it for the horrific big deal that it is/was. Anything to lessen their pain. But then, not living in reality is really just putting off the inevitable realization that it was a horrific thing that happened to them and they should deal with it.

Theres no way to shield them from realising that they were molested and its a very big deal. Sure, there was no way for them to know that when they were children and protected from the world, but they are all adults and Joy is almost an adult. Two of them have left home and have full internet access. Even if none of this came out, and it didn't hit them now, it would at some point in their lives. Its better that it happens now, than happens when they are bogged down with a million kids.

I think they have a right to know anyway. They shouldn't live in denial their whole lives, they still remember it happening, and they need to know that it is not okay.

[latraviata]

I am bringing this over from the other thread because it is really making me see red.

And who the hell are you? You have been around here around 5 months and have done very little to prove yourself even remotely thoughtful. Your entire closed minded schtick, which basically revolves around posting random articles that rarely stand up to vetting to back up your often crack pot ideas, is fairly laughable and a little sad.

How dare you attack latraviata like that? She not a psychiatrist, she is a psychologist from the Netherlands with two sons, one of which is a doctor and the other of which passed away early. She was brought up Catholic and sews children's clothes as a hobby. Her avatar is her actual photo. She loves opera and her sons with passion. She has been on freejinger since Yuku. I know who she is, but whoever the fuck you are is a mystery I care not to solve.

Honestly Nelliebelle, don't bother, I don't even respond to that. I am not going along with all the hysteria and faux Josh, preditor, pedophile experts.

Very important....I was brought up a catholic but an atheist since birth LOL........

But thank you and cheers!