19 Kids & Counting Pulled From Line-Up/Show Future - Merge

[Librul]

I'm not understanding the dynamic of " continuing the show to see the fallout".

The molestation occurred over 10 years ago. The fallout was THEN, not now.

Some people ( many who should know better!) are confusing the fact that the molestation news is new to the public, but certainly not new to either the perp., his victims, or the D' parents.

This has to end. TLC has to have enough pressure exerted from the public to end this mind fuck of both the audience and the survivors of Josh. Even if nothing is ever mentioned on air, which is extremely likely, the Duggars now know that the viewers now know, too. This changes everything. The truth can't be ignored or changed, and the secret is now worldwide news.

SO MUCH THIS!!!

This news is new to us, not to them. No one owes "the girls" a living. The show can't be cancelled soon enough for me. They are not magically free from ATI poison just because we know something now that we didn't last week. They are not going to leave the cult, ignore 20 years of blanket training and become feminists just because some people think that would be the ideal ending to the story. Breaking free may eventually happen for some of them but I highly doubt that will happen for most, nor will it be soon.

This is sordid, ugly and small. TLC is nothing more than corporate pimps with the programming they offer.....except for say yes to the dress. Love me some Randy!

[Becket70]

I bet that Jim Bob is turning this thing around in his head so that he is the one being persecuted for his religious beliefs...we did what we thought was right, blah, blah, blah. Religious freedom, blah, blah, blah. Liberal media out to get us, blah, blah, blah. He will find lots of people who will reinforce his view. I predict that within six months Josh will be offered a job....maybe working for Huckabee and Jim Bob and Michelle will resume their speaking engagements with more and more talk about the liberal media. I also think that TLC is trying everything to keep the show on the air...maybe not in its present form but in some iteration of 19 Kids and Counting. I don't trust TLC at all. If TLC had decided to cancel the show, it would be cancelled by now. I would be thrilled if I woke up tomorrow to the news that the entire nightmare is over and there will be no more Duggars on TLC but I really can't see that happening. Still, I hold out a smidgeon of hope.....

[HarryPotterFan]

I bet that Jim Bob is turning this thing around in his head so that he is the one being persecuted for his religious beliefs...we did what we thought was right, blah, blah, blah. Religious freedom, blah, blah, blah. Liberal media out to get us, blah, blah, blah. He will find lots of people who will reinforce his view. I predict that within six months Josh will be offered a job....maybe working for Huckabee and Jim Bob and Michelle will resume their speaking engagements with more and more talk about the liberal media. I also think that TLC is trying everything to keep the show on the air...maybe not in its present form but in some iteration of 19 Kids and Counting. I don't trust TLC at all. If TLC had decided to cancel the show, it would be cancelled by now. I would be thrilled if I woke up tomorrow to the news that the entire nightmare is over and there will be no more Duggars on TLC but I really can't see that happening. Still, I hold out a smidgeon of hope.....

I'm living in a fantasy land where one of the other families featured on the channel refuses to renew their contracts because of TLC's support of a child molester.

[jqlgoblue]

I'm living in a fantasy land where one of the other families featured on the channel refuses to renew their contracts because of TLC's support of a child molester.

I had that thought earlier today, with a flash of hope that the Little Couple might be up for the challenge. Sadly, I think Jen is in too deep now. I can see it in her/Bill's interviews for their book.

[MamaJunebug]

I had that thought earlier today, with a flash of hope that the Little Couple might be up for the challenge. Sadly, I think Jen is in too deep now. I can see it in her/Bill's interviews for their book.

Can you elaborate a little on Jen & Bill's book and her in-too-deep situation? I'm happy to start a topic in Worldly Distractions" to avoid topic jacking here. Thanx!!!

[Toothfairy]

I think JimChelle don't live in the real world. They live in fundie land. The show would've came to an end anyway. I think it's time for the cameras to go. JB didn't sound appreciative of the opportunities anyway. Being rude and disrespectful in other countries, embarrassing your kids on public tv, Jesus said it's time for it to end. No the girls shouldn't get a spin off. Wtf are they going to do. Jessa Jill and Ben don't have jobs. Jessa and Jill are both brainwashed kids who just lost their v card a few months ago and are now pregnant. Unless they're actually going to do something with their life and stand to daddy then that show will be dry as a bone.

[FloraKitty35]

The world doesn't need a Jill and Jessa spin-off.

[Tiny Bubbles]

I am SO over the reality show thing.

If conservative Christians want a show portraying the wholesome adventures of a well behaved family, why not a regular old sit-com type show?

Why pretend that it's reality when we all know how un-real these shows are?? What's wrong with some actors acting - isn't the end result the same? If the actors portray characters who are wholesome and attractive the show will be followed by more than just hardcore fundies.

[lilwriter85]

SO MUCH THIS!!!

This news is new to us, not to them. No one owes "the girls" a living. The show can't be cancelled soon enough for me. They are not magically free from ATI poison just because we know something now that we didn't last week. They are not going to leave the cult, ignore 20 years of blanket training and become feminists just because some people think that would be the ideal ending to the story. Breaking free may eventually happen for some of them but I highly doubt that will happen for most, nor will it be soon.

This is sordid, ugly and small. TLC is nothing more than corporate pimps with the programming they offer.....except for say yes to the dress. Love me some Randy!

That is main thing I see too. It is known that both Jessa and Jill are very much into ATI and other fundie belief systems/cultures. Giving them a spinoff would give them a vehicle to spread their dangerous beliefs. I do feel sorry for them because of what happened, but I agree no one owes them a living and at the least the adult Duggar children should have already been prepared, in case something happened and the show was canned. The show hasn't been canceled though.

We know that Boob, Mullet, and the Duggar kids remaining at the TTH will be fine, if the show is canned. The two married couples might have some trouble on the horizon. But they are adults and need to man up and realize that they aren't entitled to a spinoff. Even, if they do get a spinoff, the outcom, reception and ratings, may not be good for them and TLC could end up canning them after a season and then they would a lose a main source of income. At least, some of the kids or adult children of other reality shows are in more touch with certain things than Jessa and Jill. One of the things, I give credit to Long Island Medium Theresa, is that, education is encouraged for her two kids. Theresa's kids know that medium mom's reality show won't last forever. There is no doubt that even after LIM ends, the Caputos will find ways to make money with Theresa tours, readings, and other things. But, at least Theresa's kids have lived away from home for and had experiences that weren't a part of the reality show.

[Cleopatra7]

I am SO over the reality show thing.

If conservative Christians want a show portraying the wholesome adventures of a well behaved family, why not a regular old sit-com type show?

Why pretend that it's reality when we all know how un-real these shows are?? What's wrong with some actors acting - isn't the end result the same? If the actors portray characters who are wholesome and attractive the show will be followed by more than just hardcore fundies.

Because old sitcoms aren't wholesome enough, believe it or not. Fundies would be offended by "Leave it to Beaver" because Wally and the Beav go to public school, are never shown going to church, and often disobey their parents (indeed, Leave it to Beaver was probably the first TV show to depict how children and adult tend to operate in separate moral universes, which fundies would also disapprove of). They would find similar problems with "The Brady Bunch," "Full House," and every other sitcom that would be considered "wholesome" by a normal person. With the Duggars, fundies thought they were seeing one of their own engaged in "ministry," as opposed to a scripted TV show about a secular family and their hijinks.

[lilwriter85]

I am SO over the reality show thing.

If conservative Christians want a show portraying the wholesome adventures of a well behaved family, why not a regular old sit-com type show?

Why pretend that it's reality when we all know how un-real these shows are?? What's wrong with some actors acting - isn't the end result the same? If the actors portray characters who are wholesome and attractive the show will be followed by more than just hardcore fundies.

I think Hallmark Channel will probably do a sitcom at some point. Now, Hallmark Channel isn't a Christian network, but their target audiences are conservative Christians and that network was/is associated with some anti-gay group. We will never see a Hallmark romance movie about a gay couple or a TV show about a same sex couple raising a family. Hallmark Channel is now producing scripted shows and two shows are spinoffs of original movies. Those shows aren't getting huge ratings due to them being on Saturday nights.

There are other channels that produce very family friendly programming, but even then conservative Christians have beef because those networks are a bit liberal. One of the last few episodes of Good Luck Charlie on Disney, had a storyline about a lesbian couple and their adopted daughter and some conservative Christians were pissed. ABC Family has changed and the network is a bit liberal and has been ripped by conservative Christians for some of their programming. A few years ago, a conservative Christian group started a boycott of Pretty Little Liars because of the lesbian characters and General Mills IIRC pulled ads. People called out the conservative Christian group for just focusing on the lesbian characters and ignoring the fact that the same show featured a straight teen girl sleeping with her teacher. After that debacle, ABC Family's other shows started featuring more gay characters and then there was The Fosters. Disney Channel in time will probably do a show that features gay lead characters. Nickelodeon referenced off screen gay characters in one of their past shows and I wouldn't be surprised if we do see a Nick show with gay main characters.

Overall, I think fundies who want conservative Christian family shows should be pitching stuff to Hallmark or maybe Up netowrk.

[Tiny Bubbles]

Thanks, cleopatra7 and lilwriter85.

ETA: maybe this is a job for Duggar Studios!

[MatthewDuggar]

I had that thought earlier today, with a flash of hope that the Little Couple might be up for the challenge. Sadly, I think Jen is in too deep now. I can see it in her/Bill's interviews for their book.

Bill & Jen have been in it too deep for a long time. They won't pull out. They should for the children. They're working the TLC machine just as hard as anyone else. I don't want to get into it, but I'm not a fan of those people either. They have even more leghumpers than the Duggars ever will.

[lilwriter85]

Thanks, cleopatra7 and lilwriter85.

ETA: maybe this is a job for Duggar Studios!

Well, if the Josh stuff never broke, maybe Duggar studios would have tried to pull off a scripted web show using the kids.

I also liked cleopatra7's post about old sitcoms not being wholesome enough for fundies. She brought up good points about the shows she mentioned. The Duggars said in several interviews years ago that only other TV show, they watched besides their show was The Andy Griffith Show. Even that might not have been wholesome enough for the Duggars.

There are some fundie lite types and some Mormons that I've known and encountered in real life that still cling to older TV shows because of certain types of wholesomeness. One of my friends was raised in a strict Lutheran family. My friend became a liberal Episcopalian as an adult and has issues with her family because of that. One of her siblings has become very conservative (a little bit more than the parents) over the years and right now she doesn't like most current TV shows. The big reasons why she doesn't like most current shows is due to the topic of homosexuality/gay characters and shows that have anti-heroes or villian types as the main characters. She sometimes hangs out with my friend, me, and other friends for get togethers. But at times, it gets difficult because she doesn't like most of the TV shows, movies, or even the books we read. She talks a lot about older shows which fit with her because many older shows, weren't covering certain topics that are featured today. She has complained about how much scripted TV has changed. I do appreciate older TV shows and still watch them on cable or streaming, but I also like that we are seeing shows that aren't always told from the good guy's viewpoint or shows that feature different kinds of families.

One of the Mormon bloggers I follow fits into the category of someone, who still clings to TV shows that are more wholesome and little more conservative. Now, this blogger sometimes whines over stupid stuff in TV shows and movies. I get that Mormons are very much against cussing, but this blogger whines about cuss words in PG-13 movies and has said that there was excessive cursing in those movies. She also strictly the Mormon advice on R rated movies. When it comes to TV shows that blogger avoids many shows on TV much like my friend's sister.

The Hallmark shows I mentioned in my previous post are probably enjoyed more by fundie lite or Evangelical types than the hardcore fundies. From what I've seen from the fundie blogging world, is that many hardcore fundies like the Duggars and Bateses don't watch a lot anyway. It's more the fundie lite types like Lori Alexander, Raquel, Daniel/Lyndsie, Mormons, etc that watch TV, but the people in that category probably avoid a lot of TV shows.

[SassyPants]

Bwahhh- Another Duggar quagmire, THEY ARE ANTI-TV, yet sold away their family's privacy, anonymity and personal moments to TV.

JB's religion is the greenback. Nothing before the dollar.

[NellieBell]

Everything. Everyone. Everywhere. Ends. - Six Feet Under.

This includes the Duggar circus and not a second too soon. No spinoff show, no taped updates. They need to live real life, hopefully seek real counseling and lower their social media saturation. Nothing about their current lives is healthy or real. I wish them luck, but it's past time to go. Since neither Jim Bob nor Michelle have the wisdom or selflessness to do this, hopefully the decision will not be left to them.

God how I loved Six Feet Under. I still watch some episodes on DVD.

[Tiny Bubbles]

Well, if the Josh stuff never broke, maybe Duggar studios would have tried to pull off a scripted web show using the kids.

I also liked cleopatra7's post about old sitcoms not being wholesome enough for fundies. She brought up good points about the shows she mentioned. The Duggars said in several interviews years ago that only other TV show, they watched besides their show was The Andy Griffith Show. Even that might not have been wholesome enough for the Duggars.

There are some fundie lite types and some Mormons that I've known and encountered in real life that still cling to older TV shows because of certain types of wholesomeness. One of my friends was raised in a strict Lutheran family. My friend became a liberal Episcopalian as an adult and has issues with her family because of that. One of her siblings has become very conservative (a little bit more than the parents) over the years and right now she doesn't like most current TV shows. The big reasons why she doesn't like most current shows is due to the topic of homosexuality/gay characters and shows that have anti-heroes or villian types as the main characters. She sometimes hangs out with my friend, me, and other friends for get togethers. But at times, it gets difficult because she doesn't like most of the TV shows, movies, or even the books we read. She talks a lot about older shows which fit with her because many older shows, weren't covering certain topics that are featured today. She has complained about how much scripted TV has changed. I do appreciate older TV shows and still watch them on cable or streaming, but I also like that we are seeing shows that aren't always told from the good guy's viewpoint or shows that feature different kinds of families.

One of the Mormon bloggers I follow fits into the category of someone, who still clings to TV shows that are more wholesome and little more conservative. Now, this blogger sometimes whines over stupid stuff in TV shows and movies. I get that Mormons are very much against cussing, but this blogger whines about cuss words in PG-13 movies and has said that there was excessive cursing in those movies. She also strictly the Mormon advice on R rated movies. When it comes to TV shows that blogger avoids many shows on TV much like my friend's sister.

The Hallmark shows I mentioned in my previous post are probably enjoyed more by fundie lite or Evangelical types than the hardcore fundies. From what I've seen from the fundie blogging world, is that many hardcore fundies like the Duggars and Bateses don't watch a lot anyway. It's more the fundie lite types like Lori Alexander, Raquel, Daniel/Lyndsie, Mormons, etc that watch TV, but the people in that category probably avoid a lot of TV shows.

I don't mind if someone worships their god of choice, or not, but to insist on excluding much of the culture around them to keep themselves safe from its contamination is warped, unless you believe that adults are helpless to control themselves without exactly the right kind of environment supporting them.

I thought by the time we were adults we were supposed to have internalized good behavior, morality, self-discipline, etc. An adult gets up in the morning because of the consequences if they don't, not because mom or dad tells them to get up.

Surely preventing people from fully developing their own morality system in the first place by imposing a rigid morality structure on them their entire lives (like forbidding certain harmless tv shows) is not the answer. Life is complex, messy, inexact and unfair to everybody. Most of us muddle through as best we can and cherish the good times. Independence is not perfect, but it's ours to play with.

/rant over

ETA: thank you for the response, lilwriter85. My rant wasn't directed at you at all.

[EmmieJ]

I am SO over the reality show thing.

If conservative Christians want a show portraying the wholesome adventures of a well behaved family, why not a regular old sit-com type show?

Why pretend that it's reality when we all know how un-real these shows are?? What's wrong with some actors acting - isn't the end result the same? If the actors portray characters who are wholesome and attractive the show will be followed by more than just hardcore fundies.

Ah ha, but it costs more to make such a sit com, because they can't just cut one check to ole JB. Plus, they would have to follow legal guidelines for filming child actors, etc. And get real writers instead of whatever idiots TLC uses to come up with dumb ideas.

[JMO]

So I've been watching all the online articles speculating about a possible spinoff and figured they were all passing around the same rumor. But the last one I found seemed more concrete and even had a possible title, "Two Brides and Their Husbands". I'm wondering if this is TLC's way of testing the waters. Allowing the rumor to spread and then watching the comments \message boards to see if there is an audience. :think:

[Tatar-tot]

I think TLC is definitely at the root of these rumors to gage public reaction. The problem is there is probably not enough material to work with unless the Duggar girls are active outside the TT headquarters for example: mommy and me groups, church, nursery school etc.

Pregnancy, labor and delivery just isn't enough.

[makauflin]

Hmmm... hadn't seen that one. I'm in the "no spinoff" camp for many reasons... first, there will always be the "cloud" of this scandal over them because of what Josh and their parents did... not sure I want to watch that, just painful. Second, I wouldn't want more people to be swayed to join the Gothardism/IBLP "way." Third, if it's as boring as the original show... no thanks! They really do very little in those shows and they have to stretch it out by teasing what's coming up next before the commercial break; talking about doing something; actually showing them doing the thing they just talked about; then talking again about what they just did on camera. Mind-numbing. The only way a spinoff could be mildly interesting is if the girls and their hubbies get out of the life they're in and live a totally new way, but I can't see that happening, with the way they've been raised. It's hard to walk away.

[Bazinga]

Personally (and I know TLC really doesn't care what I think), I think it's time to let the Duggars go. Honestly a spin-off to me looks desperate and like TLC is trying to squeeze every last drop of juice out of an already squeezed grape.

The scandal happened, now it's time to cut ties and let the family find a way to actually heal. Parading the girls on spin-off show will only continue to put a cover over what happened. Sure we'll always know about the scandal, but you bet Ma and Pa Duggar will have a large voice on the show. Plus I'm also in the camp that the show would be boring. And to meit just seems like a front in order to get the Duggar back on the air anyways (I doubt we would never see the family on the show).

[Cleopatra7]

Jill and Jessa are too dull to carry a series on their own. They are only "interesting" (and I use that word loosely) because they are members of the Duggar-Borg freak show unit. Without that connection, they are just a couple of poorly educated newlyweds. All the personality and spark was beaten out of those girls ages ago, and they aren't engaging on their own. The only way this would be watchable would be if they acknowledged the abuse and announced that they were going to take steps to own the trajectory of their lives and find out who they are as individuals. Since I doubt that will happen, the final product would end up being more thinly disguised commercials for Gothardism, and we don't need any more of that. :penguin-no:

[lilwriter85]

For me, I think it's 50/50 at this point if a spinoff happens. I could see the girls and their husbands pushing for a spinoff for money reasons, especially Ben and Jessa. TLC sees that the girls are popular and right before Joshgate, both couples overshadowed Josh and Anna, in terms of popularity.

Like Tatar-tot mentioned there might not be enough material for spinoff unless the the families agree to do a lot of activities outside the home. I think it would be boring after awhile to see Jill and baby Israel at Mommy and me classes or Jessa preparing for baby Seewald 1. I think both couple,s in some ways, don't have the appeal or marketability to mainstream audiences. TLC has to know that from 19kac. While the Duggars are/were very popular with People magazine, morning shows like Today and GMA, their beliefs probably kept them from doing other things to promote the show. TLC was probably secretly fed up that a Duggar wouldn't do Dancing with the Stars, while Kate Gosselin did a season. Now, if Jill and Jessa and husbands get spinoffs, they might break free a bit of their belief system and parents' belief system, in order to promote their spinoff.

Ratings and reception for a Duggar Girls/Husband spinoff might not be good or consistent. If TLC gives them a spinoff, ratings for the first few episodes might be good and in 3 million range because of curiosity after Joshgate. I don't think a spinoff would address the Josh stuff. After the first few episodes, ratings might drop either because viewers end up being bored with the show after realizing that the Josh stuff will never be addressed and also they might not find the girls and their husbands/family lives to be exciting. I could see a spinoff happening for a season and then it gets canned by TLC.

[SnazzyNazzy]

I would honestly prefer to watch paint dry, than a Duggar daughter spin-off. While I'm sure Jill taking Derick his lunch to work, complete with baby in tow, is riveting TV, I will take the risk, of missing it.