Maxwells explain it all for us

[VodouDoll]

These old corners are amazing! In August 1999 Steve gave his readers a not-at-all-crazy anatomy lesson:

As we continue our discussion on God’s blueprint for a Christian home, we see another aspect of God’s earthly home, the temple; it was a place of sacrifice. It was where a vivid picture of our Lord Jesus’ final sacrifice was presented repeatedly before the eyes of those present. I say final because His life was a sacrifice day by day and ended with the greatest sacrifice on the cross. The priests were involved in the bloody, messy work of daily sacrificing in the temple. Have you ever wondered why God chose to make blood red? He could have made it so that it didn’t stain the clothes of those involved in the sacrifice. However, because it was red, everyone knew who was involved in the sacrifice.

I love it.

ETA: Here's another good one! October '99:

A bright, blue Saturday a couple months ago as Nathan, Christopher, Joseph, John, and I were leaving City Union Mission, we saw a B-2 bomber making a thundering fly-by. We realized it was the weekend for the Kansas City air show. We had been told the air show had some incredible aircraft on display, and every male in my family would have loved the chance to look over the airplanes.

Unfortunately, the air shows around here always play loud rock music. We will not go to them since I have purposed that I will not trade a few minutes of aircraft excitement for the filling of our souls with the wicked audio influence of our world. On the way home, we decided we would ask a neighbor to record the portion about the air show from the 6 o’clock news. We did this, and there was no little excitement when the videotape arrived later that evening.

I put the tape in the VCR, and hit “play†to an excited crowd of young ones. Before I could get to where I could see, Sarah, who had just entered, exclaimed that the little ones needed to look away quickly. To my incredible disappointment, indignation, and mounting feeling of violation, there was a preview of some TV show with ladies in underwear, right before the 6 o’clock news began.

"Filling our souls with the wicked audio influence of the world!" That's Maxwell gold. Steve goes on to elaborate on how upset the commercial made him: the underwear ladies violated his purity and made him lust, and this is why Jesus doesn't want anyone to watch the news.

[anjulibai]

Because the Bible is just full of roses and pomegranates and skipping gazelles...

I know right? I'd love for someone to ask them how they protect their kids from all the rape and murder in the Bible, including the stuff God condones.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

That was painful to watch. They have no sense of when to pause or what to put an emphasis on.

Perhaps if they watched TV they would have a better sense how to act in front of a camera.

Odd since they have a book out on growing good conversationalists! :cracking-up:

[thoughtful]

A bright, blue Saturday a couple months ago as Nathan, Christopher, Joseph, John, and I were leaving City Union Mission, we saw a B-2 bomber making a thundering fly-by. We realized it was the weekend for the Kansas City air show. We had been told the air show had some incredible aircraft on display, and every male in my family would have loved the chance to look over the airplanes.

Only the male members of the family are interested. Steve must make this very clear, lest anyone be horrified by the possibility that his precious girls and women might want to see big ol' mechanical, phallic airplanes.

And I really hate it when people, religious or secular, use "male" and female" as nouns. It sounds like they are talking about livestock.

Unfortunately, the air shows around here always play loud rock music. We will not go to them since I have purposed that I will not trade a few minutes of aircraft excitement for the filling of our souls with the wicked audio influence of our world.

:roll: That may qualify as the most Fundified, Christianese-laden assholic paragraph ever written about airplanes.

I put the tape in the VCR, and hit “play†to an excited crowd of young ones. Before I could get to where I could see, Sarah, who had just entered, exclaimed that the little ones needed to look away quickly. To my incredible disappointment, indignation, and mounting feeling of violation, there was a preview of some TV show with ladies in underwear, right before the 6 o’clock news began.

Yeah, a feeling of violation is what was rising -- sure, Steve.

What a terrified freak he is -- if only he'd stayed single and frightened in some little apartment all by himself all his life, instead of dragging others down with him.

:cry:

[quiversR4hunting]

ETA: Here's another good one! October '99:

2 the bold: 3 words: noise cancelling headphones

But then another excuse will happen like other women in shorts, short hair, men in tank tops and shorts; possibility of hearing a swear word, etc, etc, etc.

What I am shocked about time and time again is the lack of curiosity by these "kids". If my parents said don't do it, I wondered why. Sometimes just looking it up on my own to see what the big deal was and sometimes I figured it out and other times I thought they were crazy. However, my parents hardly ever said no and us kids didn't know why- we almost always knew why the answer was no (not enough money, adult theme-you can watch it when you are older, etc). Unfortunately, these "kids" seem never to be old enough to make their own decisions or look up stuff.

[sparkles]

I honestly don't understand why Steve hasn't bought a huge plot of land in some remote wildnerness, gathered up the entire extended family and set up them all up in an off-the-grid, completely self-sufficient compound so they're completely shut off from the outside world. Even the most normal, most mundane occurrences send him into a tailspin. How he continues to function in the real world is a mystery.

[nokidsmom]

What a terrified freak he is -- if only he'd stayed single and frightened in some little apartment all by himself all his life, instead of dragging others down with him.:cry:

Mr No. has a friend who has some pretty weird hangups. Thing is, he knows it and therefore has stayed single and stays in his own little apartment, works a retail job that's night shift because it fits with his strange personality. Some mutual friends have been indignant that he's so selfish by not getting married, getting a "real" job (not sure why his job isn't real but whatever) etc, but frankly, we think he's one of the most honest people we know. Honest with others meaning he does not hide his quirks but more importantly honest with himself.

Too bad Steveovah wasn't as honest with himself.

[BrownieMomma]

Mr No. has a friend who has some pretty weird hangups. Thing is, he knows it and therefore has stayed single and stays in his own little apartment, works a retail job that's night shift because it fits with his strange personality. Some mutual friends have been indignant that he's so selfish by not getting married, getting a "real" job (not sure why his job isn't real but whatever) etc, but frankly, we think he's one of the most honest people we know. Honest with others meaning he does not hide his quirks but more importantly honest with himself.

Too bad Steveovah wasn't as honest with himself.

IMO Mr. No's Friend is the ultimate in selflessness. Not everyone has to get married or have kids or get a real job in order to lead a content life.

[anjulibai]

I honestly don't understand why Steve hasn't bought a huge plot of land in some remote wildnerness, gathered up the entire extended family and set up them all up in an off-the-grid, completely self-sufficient compound so they're completely shut off from the outside world. Even the most normal, most mundane occurrences send him into a tailspin. How he continues to function in the real world is a mystery.

He doesn't have the stamina to be off-grid. It would require a lot of actual work, instead of busy work like he likes.

[thoughtful]

What I am shocked about time and time again is the lack of curiosity by these "kids". If my parents said don't do it, I wondered why. Sometimes just looking it up on my own to see what the big deal was and sometimes I figured it out and other times I thought they were crazy. However, my parents hardly ever said no and us kids didn't know why- we almost always knew why the answer was no (not enough money, adult theme-you can watch it when you are older, etc). Unfortunately, these "kids" seem never to be old enough to make their own decisions or look up stuff.

I think Steve and Teri have worked very hard to make that happen.

I don't think we've ever figured out if the Maxwell kids were whipped when little, but they were certainly emotionally manipulated with constant barrages of words from their parents. Even when they were in their beds for naps, they had those tapes of Steve droning on.

From what Steve and Teri have written, I've been left with an impression of long, guilt-mongering, sad conversations, probably on a regular basis, but certainly whenever a child showed the least glimmer of independent thought.

Steve and Teri are like living nail-files of the spirit, tirelessly wearing their children's personalities down. :cry:

[Jessica]

Wait, that passage about Dad and Mr. Delome--did Sarah write that in one of the Moody books?! :pink-shock:

[Rosie]

ETA: Here's another good one! October '99:

"Filling our souls with the wicked audio influence of the world!" That's Maxwell gold. Steve goes on to elaborate on how upset the commercial made him: the underwear ladies violated his purity and made him lust, and this is why Jesus doesn't want anyone to watch the news.

What must he think of Melanie's rocker sister, Grace?

[nokidsmom]

IMO Mr. No's Friend is the ultimate in selflessness. Not everyone has to get married or have kids or get a real job in order to lead a content life.

He is quite content. More than a lot of people we know. I remember telling someone about this particular friend and really how he worked things out. At first sight, it doesn't look like he's done particularly well for himself, he lived at home until his parents' deaths and we were actually worried about how he would fare once the house had to be sold. He did fine. Found just the right apartment for his needs, accommodating his collectibles, found the night shift job (he's not that social) so he could have health insurance, he's uber frugal so chances are he has more money from years of that retail job than most of us. Nobody understands that he could be content. It's "but, but...he's in an apartment!" So what? "but....but...he works at Walmart!" So what? "but...but...he has no money because he works retail!" Probably not true but none of this was the point. He found his own contentment.

However, Steveovah has not found his own contentment. Even now. Though he has been "called home by the Lord", living and leading his family/cult on the family compound for years, traveling the country to lead conferences so other fathers may take their own families down the same rabbit hole, one gets the real feeling that for all that he has done, trying to lead the right life in his view (the craziness of it aside), he's not a happy man.

[thoughtful]

Wait, that passage about Dad and Mr. Delome--did Sarah write that in one of the Moody books?! :pink-shock:

Yes, she did.

titus2.com/media/products/samples/excitingtimessamples-2.pdf

titus2.com/book-9-exciting-times-with-the-moodys.html

[nokidsmom]

He doesn't have the stamina to be off-grid. It would require a lot of actual work, instead of busy work like he likes.

There would be no time to dust off ceiling fans or clean cabinets for just for the heck of it. It might make him crazy (he must live by the white glove test seriously) to put off having clean fans and cabinets because of prioritizing other things needed for actual survival.

[sparkles]

He doesn't have the stamina to be off-grid. It would require a lot of actual work, instead of busy work like he likes.

I think I've got to disagree with you on that one. One thing about the Maxwells is that they have an enviable work ethic, forced though it may be. (Who knows though? Left to their own devices they could actually be a bunch of sloths…) These are people who built their own house from the ground-up, have done major remodeling projects in the sons' homes, completely refitted their bus…and from the looks of it, they've done a top-notch job each time. I think the busywork only comes into play when they don't have a major project on the schedule but have endless hours between bible study and prayer to fill. I think an off-the-grid, self-sufficient life would be right up their alley. They'd be busy with a purpose. And off-the-grid doesn't have mean living the life of a pioneer with no mod cons, just that you're not part of the system. With the right solar and/or wind powered set-up, they wouldn't have to give up a thing.

[salex]

I honestly don't understand why Steve hasn't bought a huge plot of land in some remote wildnerness, gathered up the entire extended family and set up them all up in an off-the-grid, completely self-sufficient compound so they're completely shut off from the outside world. Even the most normal, most mundane occurrences send him into a tailspin. How he continues to function in the real world is a mystery.

I don't think he functions in the real world. We see the women shopping in stores and occasionally see him eating in a fast food place or restaurant, but in general, we don't see him doing what I'd say was real world sort of stuff.

The examples of his fear of rock music and his fear of women in underwear strike me as someone who is not functional.

I think The Maxwells and the Ardnts are very much little cults.

[nokidsmom]

I think The Maxwells and the Ardnts are very much little cults.

Of the families we snark on here, these two are the ones who have family as cult down to an art form, albeit a disturbing one.

[EmiGirl]

I think I've got to disagree with you on that one. One thing about the Maxwells is that they have an enviable work ethic, forced though it may be. (Who knows though? Left to their own devices they could actually be a bunch of sloths…) These are people who built their own house from the ground-up, have done major remodeling projects in the sons' homes, completely refitted their bus…and from the looks of it, they've done a top-notch job each time. I think the busywork only comes into play when they don't have a major project on the schedule but have endless hours between bible study and prayer to fill. I think an off-the-grid, self-sufficient life would be right up their alley. They'd be busy with a purpose. And off-the-grid doesn't have mean living the life of a pioneer with no mod cons, just that you're not part of the system. With the right solar and/or wind powered set-up, they wouldn't have to give up a thing.

Left to their own devices they would be sloths because none of them would know what to do without the chore packs and schedules to tell them.

[Dru]

What must he think of Melanie's rocker sister, Grace?

I think we know very well what Steve thinks of Grace, and probably Anna as well. What I'd be interested in is hearing what they think about him.

[anjulibai]

But stamina I meant physical labor. While they can do hard labor and are capable of some great work, they definitely prefer to have white collar type work.

They could not sustain the physical output if they had to live, which is required of anyone who farms for necessity, even with modern conveniences.

It's the one of the reasons they ended their construction business and why they don't flip houses for a living.

That and they don't keep at anything long enough. Which is also necessary to live off-grid.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think Steve and Teri have worked very hard to make that happen.

I don't think we've ever figured out if the Maxwell kids were whipped when little, but they were certainly emotionally manipulated with constant barrages of words from their parents. Even when they were in their beds for naps, they had those tapes of Steve droning on.

From what Steve and Teri have written, I've been left with an impression of long, guilt-mongering, sad conversations, probably on a regular basis, but certainly whenever a child showed the least glimmer of independent thought.

Steve and Teri are like living nail-files of the spirit, tirelessly wearing their children's personalities down. :cry:

Steve put tapes of himself talking in his kids rooms while they slept? That is some seriously fucked up brainwashing. He is a sick man, and is just so manipulative. I have never seen Steve as particularly violent towards his kids, although I imagine he did spank his kids when they were younger because for a fundie, admitting you don't spank your kids is like a regular person admitting they let their 8 year old smoke. I think that he is more emotionally and spiritually abusive towards them, he seems like a very good manipulator. Whatever he did to them is just so sinister, and he did something truly awful to turn his fairly normal family into an army of robot slaves.

Like when Steve said he once cried because he accidentally saw a boob, I can see him faking emotion to make his family feel guilty (especially in the early days, when he was getting into it and making them like that), like if one of his kids asks if they can join the football team or why they have to stop seeing their friends, he then starts crying and saying he is trying to protect them and so worried for them, and wishes they would appreciate that.

He also can control their memories of things and make the older ones feel that their life was terrible and scary back before they became fundie. I imagine him sat with them highlighting all of the mildly negative things that happened when they were allowed to do normal things, and shutting them down when they mention happy things. Like Sarah said that she had a bad experience as a sleepover when she was little, which was probably not a horribly traumatizing thing, maybe some kid was mean to her or she got in an argument with her friend, or she just felt home sick. I imagine Steve constantly talked about and exaggerated the bad things and made it sound scary, and cause it happened so young, I bet she cant even remember what really happened because her memories are so distorted as it is all seen through a Steve filter.

I imagine plenty of gaslighting, and guilting, and talks filled with shame. Beating them down with keeping them so busy doing nothing that they have no time to think, it isn't in the schedule, so go clean the toilets and then dust the ceiling fans even though it was only done yesterday and looks fine. Then reduce the amount of food they eat, and make them get up early for Bible time, so they are hungry and exhausted and unable to think straight. Get them so worn down that they don't have the ability to resist him, and are so beaten down they will do anything. He seems to be getting worse too, with the fasting becoming more frequent.

Holy shit, this isn't a family. Its a cult.

I worry for those poor kids, they are so messed up from what Steve did to them!

[VodouDoll]

He definitely hit his kids. A FJer (AllisonWonderland?) who went to the conference where Steve ranted about Liz Munck also reported that they all laughed happily about fond memories of hitting their kids. Plus, way back at the beginning of their blog, they had some guest posts by Mrs Debi Pearl herself.

I agree that it was mostly spiritual/emotional abuse though. The image of being nail files on their children's spirits is both poetic and apt. The tapes while they slept is a good example. Nathan does that to the ABCs too, and if he does it then you can bet Christopher does as well.

I recently read an article that made me think of the Maxwells. A psychologist studying efficiency and productivity had his subjects work all day doing things on their to-do lists, but they were never allowed a break or to do anything for fun or recreation. He had to stop his study after less than a week after he discovered that he had accidentally induced symptoms of generalized anxiety disorder in every participant. Those kids must be miserable and on edge 24/7.

[SPHASH]

I don't think we've ever figured out if the Maxwell kids were whipped when little, but they were certainly emotionally manipulated with constant barrages of words from their parents. Even when they were in their beds for naps, they had those tapes of Steve droning on.

Steve put tapes of himself talking in his kids rooms while they slept? That is some seriously fucked up brainwashing. He is a sick man, and is just so manipulative. I have never seen Steve as particularly violent towards his kids, although I imagine he did spank his kids when they were younger because for a fundie, admitting you don't spank your kids is like a regular person admitting they let their 8 year old smoke. I think that he is more emotionally and spiritually abusive towards them, he seems like a very good manipulator. Whatever he did to them is just so sinister, and he did something truly awful to turn his fairly normal family into an army of robot slaves.

WTF?

[sparkles]

The Daddy tapes!

articles.titus2.com/daddy-tape/