Anna Duggar - Merge

[QBall37]

Josh has the ability now to go to college. It's his choice now not to take it.

I would argue that point. With basically not even a highschool education, I doubt that, even if he somehow managed to get accepted, he could actually do college-level work. Once you get beyond English 101, the coursework requires critical thinking skills that you can't just pick up over night. They're the kind of skills that are built over a lifetime.

[Nishi621]

Didn't Josh and Anna spend Thanksgiving with her family in Florida?

And, I am sorry, I am much older than Josh and if I was as close to my family as he was, I too would have cried watching my family drive away after I had moved to another state. Not a big Josh fan, but to call him a big wuss (sorry, the word used in the post was "wimp"), over that just seems wrong. Some people are close to their families and miss them when they are gone, nothing wrong with that

[LogansMama]

Just want to note: Doctors and Scientists believe that morning sickness evolved as a protective measure for the fetus. Back in the day when we ate whatever we could to survive, there was a high chance that an expectant mother would ingest something poisonous. Morning sickness occurred as a result in order to keep the baby safe. I don't think it really has a point now since most pregnant ladies don't run around stuffing random leaves into their mouths. Probably one of those things that had a purpose at first and we just haven't evolved past yet.

(Side note: Morning sickness is the one part of pregnancy I'm dreading; even more than actually giving birth. It sounds really sucky to me)

If that theory were true, it doesn't explain why it tends to subside around 12-14 weeks. Not everyone gets morning sickness, I didn't, so you may be ok! Fingers crossed.

[LogansMama]

Didn't Josh and Anna spend Thanksgiving with her family in Florida?

And, I am sorry, I am much older than Josh and if I was as close to my family as he was, I too would have cried watching my family drive away after I had moved to another state. Not a big Josh fan, but to call him a big wuss over that just seems wrong. Some people are close to their families and miss them when they are gone, nothing wrong with that

It didn't bother me that he cried. His bigotry is what I have a problem with.

[purposed2015]

I would argue that point. With basically not even a highschool education, I doubt that, even if he somehow managed to get accepted, he could actually do college-level work. Once you get beyond English 101, the coursework requires critical thinking skills that you can't just pick up over night. They're the kind of skills that are built over a lifetime.

He could go to a community college. They would test him and put him in remedial classes before he could take regular credit classes. I know several people that went this route, it takes longer, but they eventually got their 4 yr. degrees. One of the classes was a college prep class that covered different areas such as study skills and critical thinking.

[LucyManettesForehead]

I'd like to know more about the strip club rumor. If it's true, then pictures have to come out eventually... right?

I'm the one who brought this up in the other thread - I do want to say that this definitely is a RUMOR, not at all confirmed, but I'm from Ozarka, and many of my friends who went to UofA claim to have seen him... on the town... in Fayetteville, and there were constantly rumors swirling about his less-than-biblical behaviors. This, however, was 6-7 years ago, after the specials but before the Duggar name meant anything to anyone outside of NWA, so there probably wasn't anyone scrambling for photos. I'm betting that his behavior was squashed by Jim Bob when the show took off.

Re: everything else in this thread. Anna and Josh both seem so tired to me. I don't know if either of them will break down (although if one of them does, my bet is on Josh), but I'm guessing a lifestyle change might be in their future. Anna used to be so bright and animated compared to the Duggars, but now she's got that same robotic feel. I also used to like her, but her whole anti-abortion schtick is really repulsive.

[VelociRapture]

If that theory were true, it doesn't explain why it tends to subside around 12-14 weeks. Not everyone gets morning sickness, I didn't, so you may be ok! Fingers crossed.

Forgot that part! Lol!

They also theorize that it usually stops after the first trimester because that is the most critical period of development for the fetus. Exposure to a toxic substance during the second or third trimester can cause problems, but they will be much more severe if the fetus is exposed during the first trimester - this is mostly due to the fact that the vital organ systems (specifically, the nervous system) are really developing during the first trimester and are at most risk for complications at that point in time.

Its actually really interesting to look into. I always find it cool to learn something about why our bodies do the things they do when it no longer seems applicable to daily life.

And yeah, definitely crossing my fingers on that. Nothing is more uncomfortable than constantly feeling sick.

[BrownieMomma]

He could go to a community college. They would test him and put him in remedial classes before he could take regular credit classes. I know several people that went this route, it takes longer, but they eventually got their 4 yr. degrees. One of the classes was a college prep class that covered different areas such as study skills and critical thinking.

Even though I personally highly value education, I will admit - a lot of it is just show up and persevere. Josh wouldn't need to have outstanding, top of the class academics. He doesn't have to go Ivy League either, he could go back to Arkansas and actually become a Razorback.

UA probably has remedial classes available, unfortunately these days that seems to be quite common that even high school graduates need some extra help transitioning by completing remedial work.

I am just saying, if Josh really wants it, he could do it. Yes, it's harder, yes it might mean a break from making teh babeez, lots of sacrifices for him and Anna but so worth it in the long run, not only for Josh's improved credentials but for Josh himself. I think he'd be a much happier person in the long run.

[nataraja]

Just want to note: Doctors and Scientists believe that morning sickness evolved as a protective measure for the fetus. Back in the day when we ate whatever we could to survive, there was a high chance that an expectant mother would ingest something poisonous. Morning sickness occurred as a result in order to keep the baby safe. I don't think it really has a point now since most pregnant ladies don't run around stuffing random leaves into their mouths. Probably one of those things that had a purpose at first and we just haven't evolved past yet.

I am sure we now eat a lot more unhealthy food than the people that lived 2000 if not 10.000 years ago:

I can imagine that our ancestors found out pretty early on which fruits were poisenous to them and which weren't. The problem in our time is that the supermarkets sell us a big amount of unhealthy (sometimes even to the point of being borderline poisonous) food and most of us even eat it because we are addicted to it or lazy or both. And don't forget the people that are addicted to alcohol or nicotine.

[LongDogMom]

This discussion reminds me of the Andea Yates case were she had 3 children back to back. The husband new she suffered from PPD because he had his mother stay with her. She found time alone and killed her 3 children and is now in prison. Treated with medications for PPD in prison.The weight of her murdering her babies is on her mind and heart 24hrs. a day. Her husband did not serve a day in prison. He knew she had PPD but continued to get her pregnant. He remarried and she sits and thinks about murdering her babies. Men continue to inpregnate their wives despite the health risks to mother and child. Give these women a break between pregnancies. Men can use a sanctioned form of birth control ABSTINENCE.

I do not think Anna is stupid or selfish. She is a product of fundamental practices that she was born into and isolates her. These women feel that their worth rests on their ability to procreate, talk sweet, and save everyone that differs from their beliefs These women marry so early in life. She had to endure smuggers serenade at their wedding. Anna loves her children and is caring for them well. She is doing this amongst people that view women bellow men. It is my belief that these women are being abused. There husbands keeping them pregnant even when it is unsafe is ABUSE.

Sorry for the rant.

I know! I find it ironic that the men are the headship of the house and make all the decisions, etc., but when anyone asks JimBob about Michelle getting pregnant again and if they are worried about all the health risks involved, he always says he leaves it up to Michelle. Really? Your wife has been pregnant over 20 times and almost died. She's been warned not to get pregnant again because of the high risk of toxemia, which she has had twice now. It is very dangerous and she's not a young woman anymore. Plus the risks to the babies. Yet instead of saying he doesn't want to put her at risk, he suddenly leaves it all up to her...maybe he thinks that clears him of responsibility if she got pregnant again and anything happened to her or the baby.

It does remind me of Andrea Yates. Rusty knew she had struggled with severe mental illness and post partum depression and that she was not taking her meds the way she should've been. He had her living in a bus with the kids for a while, homeschooling, getting pregnant again and again despite advice against that because of her mental health issues and risk of post partum psychosis, yet he takes no responsibility. Well, these men and the religion they were choosing to follow with their wives put them in charge and her subservient to his wishes. I don't think Rusty Yates or Jim Bob are very realistic about how stressful and difficult pregnancy and caring for young children can be, especially when the expectations are extremely high for everyone to be happy and obedient all the time. That was a big part of Andrea Yates's mental illness...she felt she didn't measure up and could not be the mother and wife she felt was expected and that her children were starting to behave like normal children and act out, and she saw that as a sign of her failure and evil coming into them, which terrified her. So she killed them to save them from evil and Hell. This is what fundamentalist craziness can do to someone!

Btw, Andrea Yates conviction for capital murder was overturned on appeal and I believe she is now in a mental institution rather than a prison as she was found not guilty by reason of insanity in the last trial. I'm happy to hear that because I do believe that as horrible as her acts were, she was not in her right mind and had documented severe mental health issues before this happened and was on anti-psychotic meds ...that her dr had, for some reason, reduced or taken her off of, which resulted in the horrible acts (she thoughts Satan was talking to her). I think prison was not the right place for her and I'm glad she is in a mental institution now, but it makes me furious that Rusty just goes off on his merry way, marrying again and having more children and not taking any responsibility for his part in what happened. It's very sad because I believe she really loved her kids.

[LongDogMom]

If he'd gone to school, ever, of any kind, he'd dealt with peer pressure. He'd dealt with being exposed to other ideas, even at the most devout Christian school there is bound to be at least one other student bringing in exposure to worldly things. Josh might be struggling with so much choice after being raised with so little choice. He is now in a world where others, maybe not those at FRC but probably others he comes into contact with in DC, have different values - things as simple as having a glass of wine with dinner.

This is one of the ways that I think the Duggars really hurt their kids...by only associating with people who are like them. Everything they do seems to be religion based. They don't allow their kids to go to a school where they might encounter different ideas or different belief systems. Instead they are all about ensuring their kids belief only what they tell them and do not encourage them to think for themselves in any way. But meeting different people with different beliefs can help you grow and expand and question and mature... sometimes I think Josh is angry below the surface that he has to basically do what is approved, rather than feeling encouraged or even free to say become a lawyer, something he expressed an interest in years ago. Maybe he's angry that his parents kind of pushed him into marrying so young, no birth control...which means lots of kids one after another, and suddenly he realizes he's trapped and isn't really happy. Not saying he doesn't love his kids or Anna, just that I think he is angry that his parents have controlled his life to such an extent that he really didn't have a chance to follow his own dreams.

[SassyPants]

I think telling your kids from the time that they can understand words, that if you do not do X you will go to hell, is psychological abuse.

For those of us not indoctrinated as youth, we do not understand what a mind screw that is- and how hard it can be to overcome, even as a nearing 30 yo adult.

Josh is afraid to prevent more kids because he is afraid of eternal damnation. What a mind screw!

[Feberin]

She's going to have her 4th child in under 7 years of marriage... How is that lacking in fertility?

I don't see Anna cracking anytime soon, she seems genuinely happy in DC.

Well I don't think she's lacking in fertility but if she's comparing herself to Michelle, her sister Esther or others who have a baby each year then she might feel like she isn't getting pregnant quickly enough. Mac is going to be almost six years old when M4 is born. Michelle had six children in approximately the same amount of time. Esther had five children in around that same amount of time. Even on Free Jinger each time right before Anna makes another announcement rumors start spreading that clearly Josh and her are finished having kids or using birth control to space them out because she's not pregnant again.

[hapamama]

I would argue that point. With basically not even a highschool education, I doubt that, even if he somehow managed to get accepted, he could actually do college-level work. Once you get beyond English 101, the coursework requires critical thinking skills that you can't just pick up over night. They're the kind of skills that are built over a lifetime.

IIRC, Josh has a GED. A GED would get him into a community college.

If the Asian international students can make it through US college classes, I'm pretty sure Josh Duggar could too. Much like the kind of education Josh has, the education systems in most Asian countries focus more on rote learning of facts than critical thinking skills.

[SassyPants]

He is soon to have 4 kids, probably little savings and a wife who believes with all her heart that only men work to support their families.

Couple this with the fact that Josh has limited experience in the sustained hard work department and I'd say any kind of college combined with FT work and continued procreation is just about impossible.

It would take an extraordinarily tenacious person...a focused person. IMO, Josh is not that person.

[eh02]

I think telling your kids from the time that they can understand words, that if you do not do X you will go to hell, is psychological abuse.

For those of us not indoctrinated as youth, we do not understand what a mind screw that is- and how hard it can be to overcome, even as a nearing 30 yo adult.

Josh is afraid to prevent more kids because he is afraid of eternal damnation. What a mind screw!

ITA. Whether or not it is intentional psychological abuse doesn't really matter, either.

I was raised in a weird setting where I was surrounded by fundies, and my parents were very conservative (but very educated), and for the most part gave us a lot of freedom. I never really was like them, and they may not have always liked it, but they allowed it. That was not the case for most of the other kids at my church. Even then, with my parents' best intentions to let me find my own way, it took me until I was about 20 years old to start to even silently in my own head accept that MAYBE I was OK to finally admit I was not a Christian. You would not believe the fear that is inside someone who has been told since their earliest memories that "all you need to go to heaven is to believe in Jesus" when you don't believe in Jesus. I felt like I was doing something wrong. Everyone would tell me if I kept reading the Bible it would "speak to me," that if you have an open heart that God will move you, etc. And it didn't happen. It is REALLY TERRIFYING. I remember having nights in my teens when I would lay in bed frozen with fear begging God to give me some kind of sign that he existed because I was so scared to even admit to myself that I could not make myself believe.

When you make a decision about your religion and your faith, it should not be fear-motivated. When it is fear motivated, it's not real faith, IMO. It's just a scared child too afraid to admit their entire world is a lie. It was hard enough for me and I was really in a "best case" scenario where my parents have never tried to change me. The Duggars (and so many others) are not as lucky.

[Nic]

I just don't think after this job at FRC ends, he's just gonna craw back to Arkansas and slip into improverished obscurity and lose his mind. He was involved in politics before this, and along with this experience, he will be able to start his own crazy PAC or work high level at another. He could also run for office like JB.

[Daisy0322]

I don't really get an unhappy vibe from Anna or josh. I think that the demands of 3 now 4 children weigh on them but I don't think either one of them has rethought they're choices

[BrownieMomma]

I read somewhere that Josh started some kind of political advising thing.. oh let me look it up...

Josh was intrigued with politics at an early age and in 2006 he founded a part-time consulting firm for elected officials and political candidates, Strategic Political Services.

http://ja20.com/ourstory/

This was right before the auto dealership.

I also read that JB had a failed attempt at the US Senate seat and then he failed to win a seat to the Arkansas State Senate. Seems like that state seat never gets mentioned.

Also... you know this is really just terrible. Josh's credentials are his father's accomplishments. This makes Josh look like a joke.

Born and raised in Arkansas, Josh is the oldest son of Jim Bob & Michelle Duggar. Josh was homeschooled and graduated from High School at the age of sixteen. In 1998, his father was elected to the Arkansas House of Representatives where he served two terms. Following his father's unsuccessful bid for U.S. Senate, the national media coverage shifted their focus to the Duggars extraordinary family. A decade later the reality series now called "19 Kids & Counting!" is the longest running reality show on the TLC network.

http://www.frcaction.org/josh-duggar

[DGayle]

I would argue that point. With basically not even a highschool education, I doubt that, even if he somehow managed to get accepted, he could actually do college-level work. Once you get beyond English 101, the coursework requires critical thinking skills that you can't just pick up over night. They're the kind of skills that are built over a lifetime.

He could go to a community college and sign up for remedial courses to help him get caught up. Could he go right into standard college classes? Hell no. But he could go to a CC (anyone can attend, even him), take those remedial classes, and take the steps he needs.

It's on him that he won't.

[Toothfairy]

I know! I find it ironic that the men are the headship of the house and make all the decisions, etc., but when anyone asks JimBob about Michelle getting pregnant again and if they are worried about all the health risks involved, he always says he leaves it up to Michelle. Really? Your wife has been pregnant over 20 times and almost died. She's been warned not to get pregnant again because of the high risk of toxemia, which she has had twice now. It is very dangerous and she's not a young woman anymore. Plus the risks to the babies. Yet instead of saying he doesn't want to put her at risk, he suddenly leaves it all up to her...maybe he thinks that clears him of responsibility if she got pregnant again and anything happened to her or the baby.

It does remind me of Andrea Yates. Rusty knew she had struggled with severe mental illness and post partum depression and that she was not taking her meds the way she should've been. He had her living in a bus with the kids for a while, homeschooling, getting pregnant again and again despite advice against that because of her mental health issues and risk of post partum psychosis, yet he takes no responsibility. Well, these men and the religion they were choosing to follow with their wives put them in charge and her subservient to his wishes. I don't think Rusty Yates or Jim Bob are very realistic about how stressful and difficult pregnancy and caring for young children can be, especially when the expectations are extremely high for everyone to be happy and obedient all the time. That was a big part of Andrea Yates's mental illness...she felt she didn't measure up and could not be the mother and wife she felt was expected and that her children were starting to behave like normal children and act out, and she saw that as a sign of her failure and evil coming into them, which terrified her. So she killed them to save them from evil and Hell. This is what fundamentalist craziness can do to someone!

Btw, Andrea Yates conviction for capital murder was overturned on appeal and I believe she is now in a mental institution rather than a prison as she was found not guilty by reason of insanity in the last trial. I'm happy to hear that because I do believe that as horrible as her acts were, she was not in her right mind and had documented severe mental health issues before this happened and was on anti-psychotic meds ...that her dr had, for some reason, reduced or taken her off of, which resulted in the horrible acts (she thoughts Satan was talking to her). I think prison was not the right place for her and I'm glad she is in a mental institution now, but it makes me furious that Rusty just goes off on his merry way, marrying again and having more children and not taking any responsibility for his part in what happened. It's very sad because I believe she really loved her kids.

I wonder how fundie women cope? Fundie men don't release how hard pregnancy is on a woman's body especially back to back. Michelle had her breaking point. I wished JB would've stop at 6/7 when she did. But he kept going. I hope if Anna has a break down Josh would have enough sense to say no more your health is more important to me. What if Michelle or Anna died from pregnancy or in childbirth when the doctor clearly said not to? These fundie men think it's all fun and games until something happens.

And andrea Yates is in a mental institution. I feel so bad for her. Even though her crime was horrific, what's more horrific is that her own family and husband didn't take her situation seriously. There were signs there and they thought it was game. Unfortunately that game her husband played made him and his wife parents of 5 dead children.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Another potential time she is vulnerable to a breakdown is if they move back to ol Tontitown. As insulated as she is in DC bc she homeschools etc, she doesn't have J'chelle in her business. Yes I reckon that JB and JC do it as much as they can from a distance, but that's not quite the same as having them close by. I'm guessing once this FRC job is over, he will be heading back to Arkansas to run for local office.

Actually, I think she would have a breakdown if they moved back BECAUSE she would be isolated. Homeschooling in/near a big city is so much different than homeschooling back in Arkansas. And, we see very little of their lives. I would be surprised if Anna didn't have a support network of friends turned family out there. If she went back to Arkansas, she pretty much only has Josh's family.

[Cleopatra7]

Actually, I think she would have a breakdown if they moved back BECAUSE she would be isolated. Homeschooling in/near a big city is so much different than homeschooling back in Arkansas. And, we see very little of their lives. I would be surprised if Anna didn't have a support network of friends turned family out there. If she went back to Arkansas, she pretty much only has Josh's family.

The only people I could see Anna voluntarily associating with would be other Gothardites or IFBers, and I don't know how common they would be in DC. Even the very conservative but more less isolated Christians at the FRC would seem too worldly for her. Based on this, I'm assuming that Anna spends most of her time at home with the kids and only goes out to run errands.

[antwan]

I'm not trying to be mean, but she's a very stupid girl and I can tell just by following her Twitter that she is in way over her head and has no idea what is going on around her. She's only 26 and is about to have her 4th child, she's a stay at home mother, she home-schools, her husband's a douche, that is A LOT to have on your plate when you're an uneducated 26 yr old. I just see her becoming very unhinged soon. Am I imagining things?

Yes, that was mean. While Anna might lack higher education, this does not make her "stupid.' Josh doesn't seem to want to have a g'zillion kids, but Anna is getting her way. Power of persuasion. And she is a terrific mother, -hands on, very loving. Her children strike me as having decent social skills, so Anna is in tune enough to work on those with her kids. She wasn't afraid to explore DC without Josh (and with her children) when he returned to work after a lunch date. She's confident.

For a girl who came from a family of little financial and educational means in FL, Anna appears to be doing just fine for herself.

Her age, number of children, work status, and/or decision to homeschool in no way equates with any more risk for coming unhinged than does the age of a former teen mom, now 26 years old, with only a high school diploma, an entry level job, 4 kids in public schools, and a "douche" of a husband.

[apandaaries]

IIRC, Josh has a GED. A GED would get him into a community college.

If the Asian international students can make it through US college classes, I'm pretty sure Josh Duggar could too. Much like the kind of education Josh has, the education systems in most Asian countries focus more on rote learning of facts than critical thinking skills.

Um, except that Asian countries focus on facts instead of fiction. There's a lot of rote learning, but a HUGE focus on STEM fields. There's also a greater appreciation for a richer variety of art. I taught in South Korea and while there is a dearth of critical thinking in schools, there is a LOT of learning. Most families HIGHLY value education in ALL areas, so kids are pushed in a variety of ways. Most of my students went to school all day, then went to after school academies where they studied EVERYTHING -- art, music, science, math, English, French, TaeKwonDo, etc. Korea is not alone in this -- Japan has similar values, and the richer China gets, the more their kids are pushed ahead. Families want their children to get as far ahead as possible; children are expected to care for their parents when they are older, so they want their kids to be able to provide. :lol: amongst other reasons... There is NO comparison between their educational preparation and the Duggars.