Duggars Vs. Bates

[lascuba]

Their scandal will be KKK membership. If not the whole family via Gil then at least one of the sons. Mark my words.

[JenniferJuniper]

Their scandal will be KKK membership. If not the whole family via Gil then at least one of the sons. Mark my words.

But would their leghumpers consider that a scandal?

[tcach]

Maybe Bill Gothard saw JB as being the dweeb he is and didn't think he was sufficiently intelligent/educated/principled to be on the board. Gil seems to be more substantial.

[lascuba]

But would their leghumpers consider that a scandal?

That...is a damned good point.

[aurora_boo]

I am confused.

Why is a 'steady income' seen as a bad thing?

Isn't that what we're all aiming for? Surely someone with an army of kids would like to have a regular income?

(I'm a long-time lurker, but new poster - and I'm a Brit. We have very few of these fundie types - and they're seen as utter crackpots)

[HarleyQuinn]

I am confused.

Why is a 'steady income' seen as a bad thing?

Isn't that what we're all aiming for? Surely someone with an army of kids would like to have a regular income?

(I'm a long-time lurker, but new poster - and I'm a Brit. We have very few of these fundie types - and they're seen as utter crackpots)

Nobody said it was. We were just pointing out Gil's grifting ways and speculating on whether or not IBLP pays him to be a board memeber. I think everyone on this board thinks steady income is a great thing. A lot of these fundies don't have that without grifting.

[st4rfl33t]

Yeah, I really don't get why not having a steady income is a point of pride. Even the Duggars had the used car lot at some point. I'm guessing it's just another way to show how "blessed" they are, that they don't have to put in work or foresight because God will provide? I think the "no debt" claim might be important, too. If you have a steady income and purchase a car in cash, you're probably seen as good at budgeting but not like some financial guru. Without a steady income, though, the feat seems more amazing. And to many people improbable, and potentially fiscally irresponsible.

I'm mostly disturbed at the phrase "training up sons and daughters." I know it's from Proverbs initially, but I always just think of the Pearls' book.

I am 99.999999% sure that when they say that, they ARE referring to the Pearls' book.

[aurora_boo]

Um. I'm not quite sure why you're taking exception at me. I was referring to an earlier:

'Not only does Gil bring to the Board a wealth of practical wisdom on marriage and training up sons and daughters, but he also has a marvelous testimony about combining prayer, initiative, diligence, creativity, and patience in providing for his family. This has included a large home, a tree-trimming business with special equipment, and family transportation—all without a steady income and no debt!'

(I apologise for not getting the formatting right yet)

All without a steady income!!!

- as though that's to be proud of?

[SportsgalAnnie]

Their scandal will be KKK membership. If not the whole family via Gil then at least one of the sons. Mark my words.

or Neo Nazi saw one today actually;almost pegged him off for riding my bumper, glad I didn't!

[bingbangboom]

Doesn't UP pay a steady income?

Time to edit that bio, Gillyboy!

[PennySycamore]

I don't think that Board Dirctors of non-profits generally get salaries. They may get their expenses covered, but that's it. In addition, with most non-profits, part of being a Director is making a fairly substantial financial contribution annually. My term as a Director of a non-profit is almost up, but I'll still make a fairly large donation at the end of the year. Some of the other members of the BOD are young mothers and my kids are grown. I can afford to do this.

[RosyDaisy]

There will be a fall of the House of Bates, and it would not shock me at all if their scandal(s) are worse than the Duggars. Hell, they already worship at that dirty old goat Gothard's feet. The even sent their daughters to travel with him knowing he was a pervert.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

There will be a fall of the House of Bates, and it would not shock me at all if their scandal(s) are worse than the Duggars. Hell, they already worship at that dirty old goat Gothard's feet. The even sent their daughters to travel with him knowing he was a pervert.

The Bates kids don't strike me as loose cannons in the same way the Duggar kids do. I can't quite place it, but they seems less... Anxious? Excitable? They behave very differently in front of a camera. They seem more relaxed - maybe that's it.

[formergothardite]

Um. I'm not quite sure why you're taking exception at me. I was referring to an earlier:

'Not only does Gil bring to the Board a wealth of practical wisdom on marriage and training up sons and daughters, but he also has a marvelous testimony about combining prayer, initiative, diligence, creativity, and patience in providing for his family. This has included a large home, a tree-trimming business with special equipment, and family transportation—all without a steady income and no debt!'

(I apologise for not getting the formatting right yet)

All without a steady income!!!

- as though that's to be proud of?

They think it is something to be proud of because not working and expecting people to give you stuff is seen as trusting God. Continuing to have children when you know you can't care(physically, emotionally and financially) for the ones you already have is also seen as a sign of great faith. So Gil and Kelly popping out baby after baby all while not having a steady income and not giving a thought to how they are going to care for these children is seen a good thing and something to brag about.

[19 cats and counting]

The Bates kids don't strike me as loose cannons in the same way the Duggar kids do. I can't quite place it, but they seems less... Anxious? Excitable? They behave very differently in front of a camera. They seem more relaxed - maybe that's it.

The Duggar kids seem like they're always putting on a show, playing a character, etc. What the cameras see is not what goes on behind closed doors. The following song lyrics (For the First Time In Forever from Frozen) remind me of it--- "Conceal, don't feel, put on a show. Make one wrong move and everyone will know."

The wrong move was made in 2002, and it took years, but everyone knows. They're just trying to make sure the other kids don't go down a similar path (not the behavior, but getting caught).

The Bates kids seem much more' real." You see their downs as well as their ups. You see teenage girls being obnoxious to their sister's boyfriend, you see toddlers misbehaving in a store, kids jumping on furniture, etc. Nothing wrong with that, it's just real life. They're (or the producers) are not trying to hide it.

(I was raised with the 'put on a show' mentality and I saw the phoniness of it very early on. It was like me being myself was not good enough, so I had to be fake.)

[HerNameIsBuffy]

They think it is something to be proud of because not working and expecting people to give you stuff is seen as trusting God. Continuing to have children when you know you can't care(physically, emotionally and financially) for the ones you already have is also seen as a sign of great faith. So Gil and Kelly popping out baby after baby all while not having a steady income and not giving a thought to how they are going to care for these children is seen a good thing and something to brag about.

Yes, as opposed to people with the ability to reason who think it's completely irresponsible to deliberately bring child after child into the world without the resources to care for them properly.

My husband buys two lotto tickets every Friday. Personally I'd think it would be easier to just set fire to $2, but it makes him happy. However, we don't trust God enough to quit our jobs until the numbers clear...but we have steady employment and house payments for debt so we won't be asked to serve on their board any time soon.

[nokidsmom]

The Duggar kids seem like they're always putting on a show, playing a character, etc. What the cameras see is not what goes on behind closed doors. The following song lyrics (For the First Time In Forever from Frozen) remind me of it--- "Conceal, don't feel, put on a show. Make one wrong move and everyone will know."

The wrong move was made in 2002, and it took years, but everyone knows. They're just trying to make sure the other kids don't go down a similar path (not the behavior, but getting caught).

The Bates kids seem much more' real." You see their downs as well as their ups. You see teenage girls being obnoxious to their sister's boyfriend, you see toddlers misbehaving in a store, kids jumping on furniture, etc. Nothing wrong with that, it's just real life. They're (or the producers) are not trying to hide it.

(I was raised with the 'put on a show' mentality and I saw the phoniness of it very early on. It was like me being myself was not good enough, so I had to be fake.)

The difference could simply be the difference in parenting. Even in quiverfull, fundieland there's going to be differences. True, the Bateseses strike me as being more emotionally connected, perhaps because Kelly does seem more involved with her kids than J'chelle does. I would think that could make a difference in how "real" the kids seem but who knows. Remember the Bateseses have the advantage of looking to the Duggars in order to know not what to do/say and I still hold to my opinion that Kelly is a lot more savvy in how she presents the family in the media.

With 19 kids in the family, the odds are still pretty high that there's going to be one kid that gets in trouble, or doesn't toe the line eventually. I have no idea if there are any skeletons in the Batesese's closet, just because they hold the same dangerous beliefs as the Duggars doesn't mean they have skeletons too, there very well could be nothing at all. However if they do, they should be very, very wary of courting fame.

[jacduggar]

I actually really like the Bates family, except Gil. I think Kelly is a pretty good mom, she just has way more kids than its reasonable to be attentive to. Her older kids help her out but they don't strike me as sister mom's as much as the J'slaves. Plus, all her older kids actually married decent partners. They have jobs and lives. It also doesn't appear to me that they would shun a child for leaving the folds, I'd actually dare say Alyssa is already fundie lite. Their kids are also considerably happier. Their smiles and laughter seem genuine. It almost makes me sad that they are part of this cult.

Gil is probably happy Jim Bob won't be popping in on his family for a visit with a moment's notice anymore. I don't think they necessarily find joy in the fact that their good friends have all of these very scary dark secrets. They let Josh into their home, if it were me I would be totally skeeved out by that.

I am sure the Bates have some kind of secret but my guess is that it doesn't have much to do with a sex scandal or molestation or cover up. I'm going to say tax fraud or something political.

[formergothardite]

I actually really like the Bates family, except Gil. I think Kelly is a pretty good mom, she just has way more kids than its reasonable to be attentive to. Her older kids help her out but they don't strike me as sister mom's as much as the J'slaves. Plus, all her older kids actually married decent partners. They have jobs and lives. It also doesn't appear to me that they would shun a child for leaving the folds, I'd actually dare say Alyssa is already fundie lite. Their kids are also considerably happier. Their smiles and laughter seem genuine. It almost makes me sad that they are part of this cult.

Gil is probably happy Jim Bob won't be popping in on his family for a visit with a moment's notice anymore. I don't think they necessarily find joy in the fact that their good friends have all of these very scary dark secrets. They let Josh into their home, if it were me I would be totally skeeved out by that.

I am sure the Bates have some kind of secret but my guess is that it doesn't have much to do with a sex scandal or molestation or cover up. I'm going to say tax fraud or something political.

We only see a small, heavily edited portion of their life. As much as people want to believe that this is a better family, the fact is, if you look behind the smiles, there is a lot of problems with this family. Starting with Kelly using abusing baby training. Then there is that she used the exact same buddy system that Michelle used except Kelly gave her newborns buddies while Michelle waited a couple of months. There is the camera system they have mounted all over their house so their kids never get any privacy. The list can go on, but don't get sucked into believe that this family is better in some way. A key part of ATI is LOOKING happy. Looking genuine. Looking like everything is real. The Bates are hardly the first elite ATI family that looked genuinely happy, but in the end, most of those families had a shit ton of problems that they were hiding.

Gil and Kelly are already involved in a sex scandal cover up, but for some reason them siding with a sexual predator and sending their daughters to travel with him doesn't seem to be a red flag to some people that perhaps they aren't as wonderful as they seem on TV.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I actually really like the Bates family, except Gil. I think Kelly is a pretty good mom, she just has way more kids than its reasonable to be attentive to. Her older kids help her out but they don't strike me as sister mom's as much as the J'slaves. Plus, all her older kids actually married decent partners. They have jobs and lives. It also doesn't appear to me that they would shun a child for leaving the folds, I'd actually dare say Alyssa is already fundie lite. Their kids are also considerably happier. Their smiles and laughter seem genuine. It almost makes me sad that they are part of this cult.

Gil is probably happy Jim Bob won't be popping in on his family for a visit with a moment's notice anymore. I don't think they necessarily find joy in the fact that their good friends have all of these very scary dark secrets. They let Josh into their home, if it were me I would be totally skeeved out by that.

I am sure the Bates have some kind of secret but my guess is that it doesn't have much to do with a sex scandal or molestation or cover up. I'm going to say tax fraud or something political.

She has publicly advocated Enzo baby training which the American Academy of Pediatrics had specifically called out as dangerous. This is addition to allowing her young daughters to accompany a known predator on trips as well as continuing to have children when she and Gil were unable to provide properly for the ones they already had (no insurance, other family members stepping in to pay for braces, Lawson buying groceries for extended periods of time, "borrowing" thousands from Lawson for bills/Erin's college/etc.) Those things alone make her a shitty mother.

And lets not forget that in a very competitive world she not only did nothing to give her kids the opportunities to gain some advantages (education, etc) she'd deliberately and consciously put every one of them at a disadvantage to eventually becoming self supporting with their self-imposed isolation and made up rules.

I admit she is a much more appealing package on the surface than Michelle, which (as has been said many times before) makes her far more dangerous. She does seem to know and like her kids more than Michelle does hers...but that can never mitigate the risks she's taken by putting her baby hoarding above the well being of the babies she already had.

She's lucky not smart, imo.

http://aapnews.aappublications.org/cont ... 1.abstract (not breaking link - news)

[19 cats and counting]

On the surface, Kelly does seem like a much better mom than Michelle. Although that's not exactly setting the bar high. She's also naturally a more maternal person. (Note, this does not excuse her from things like making her oldest daughter potty train her siblings)

I think the difference is that her older kids genuinely love her. Michael made her mother the MOH at her wedding, which is not something that I can see a Duggar girl doing. In fact the only one of the 3 weddings that I saw Michelle show any emotion at was Josh's. (To JB's credit, he showed emotion as he walked his daughters, especially Jill, down the aisle).

[goldfishgoddess]

I really don't think Gil is giving Boob "the finger."

As fathers of 19 kids and small business owners/ reality show managers, they both are in an exclusive if not ridiculous fraternity and need each other. If anything, I think the Bates were probably shocked at Josh's "mistakes" and how his parents handled it but will not judge. Although since the families share fundiehood I'm sure they are able to spin it some way so that they can remain friends.

When I see the Bates and Duggars together, there appears to be a genuine closeness and fondness between the families who share a lot of values and common problems.

[VapingindaCity]

I'm not sure why JB always mention that he build Gil house, wasn't the Bates home upgraded as part of the Bates old TLC show? Yes, if it wasn't for JB the Bates wouldn't had not 1 but 2 chances at a reality show, but JB house was paid in part by TLC and Sponsors...

[imokit]

It was TLC but it was the Duggars show, pre Bates show.

So the house came from TLC via JB.

[MoonFace]

It was TLC but it was the Duggars show, pre Bates show.

So the house came from TLC via JB.

So Gil is indebted to Jimmy Boob for the rest of his life...........