Duggars Vs. Bates

[Diana]

Talking about Kelly sisters, i am not very sure, but in the episode i thought i saw a baby with one of them, the one going to marry actually, did she had kids as a single woman? or maybe it was someone elses kid.

[Lewy]

They may both be fundie families, but until I hear that Gil and Kelly Bates covered up the sexual abuse of minors, I'm giving the Bates the victory.

I do agree that the Bates seem to be better parents and have done more to actually raise their younger kids than Boob and DQ. The older girls no doubt did/do tons of work around the home, but they don't seem quite as....sistermom as the J'Slaves. The younger kids actually seem to have a connection with their parents, unlike little Jenny Duggar who acts like Jill is her mother and is incredibly awkward and uneasy around J'Chelle.

I do have to say that even before/after the Josh allegations came out, I've never got the same 'creepy' vibe from any of Zach/Lawson/Nathan that Josh gave me. Sure, Lawson might reek of smarm and gives off the 'hot and don't I just know it' vibes thanks to him basically being a fundie 'sex symbol' among instagram leg humpers, but it's not the same kind of creepy smugness that Smuggar is known for.

[roddma]

I still cant give either one of them the victory. 19 Bates kids and not one rebel and i dont mean wearing pants when you get married. Maybe there' some hope for Zach according to other threads saying he's in police training. But then thats only happening because he's away from Gil and Kelly. I dont think they would have approved . Theres an old saying everything that glitters isnt gold.

[calimojo]

The bates are definitely more entertaining than the duggars. If I can put my brain on hold as far as their awful beliefs, I actually enjoy the BuB. I have never really enjoyed the Duggars. I have been fascinated by them, like I would be watching an entirely different culture, but I am not all that entertained by them. They are not clever, or funny. The only one who seems to have some dry wit is Justin but he is on camera so rarely that it is hard to notice.

The rest of the kids are remarkably awkward on camera for people who have spent most of their lives being filmed. JB and M are just too stupid for words.

The bates kids are more spontaneous, and just seem quicker and brighter. Kelly and Gil at least seem to enjoy their kids. Yes, I know they pawned them off to the other kids to raise much like Michelle did, but they still at least seem to know them better, and their affection with them seems genuine and not just something they are doing for the camera. Yes they benefit from knowing the criticisms of Michelle and JB.

But I think most of us agree, if we were forced to have to spend a week with either family, we would likely choose the Bates. Though I might enjoy the solitude of the prayer closet in the TTH.

[Fundie Bunny]

While i find the duggars super creepy, i thknk i can relate a bit more to the bates (not ti their beliefs, but with the family dynamics) . We are more or less the same in numbers (grandma had 7 kids, we are 12 cousins, and the oldest are starting to have babies). We are always together, and when i say always, i mean ALWAYS. My family can be a little bit pushy and over the top, just like the bates. They can be exausting, but at the end if the day, they are family, and i love them.

[patsymae]

Back before the "scandal" JBob claimed he and Gil were best buds, but everytime it came up on TV JBoob always managed to mention that he built the home Gil lives in. Always seemed to be rubbing it in, and there didn't really seem to be any BFF.

Now JBoob's family has been disgraced, which I think in their culture means failure on the part of the patriarch. And they've lost their TV show.

Gil now is on the board of the cult His daughters have been successfully married to members of the cult, including one whose inlaw is known politically. His family has a reality show that hasn't been cancelled.

I think Gil is just laughing at JBoob.

[Beermeet]

He must be right? Because they judge each other and JB always brags, always.

I like looking at Erin's IG. I imagine Jessa being way jealous! Mr. Erin is attentive and always making her stuff. He provides for her. What is it Ben does again??? Gil works too. And Kelly actually plans things like parties and raises kids. I think Gil tolerates JB and they are friendly. I remember Gil's birthday party where they brought out all his old friends and people who shaped his life. I seriously doubt the Duggars could round up people like that for JB. JB is most likely jealous of Gil. Gil imho is most likely secretly enjoying the downfall. Not so superior now huh, helmet head!

[HermioneSparrow]

He must be right? Because they judge each other and JB always brags, always.

I like looking at Erin's IG. I imagine Jessa being way jealous! Mr. Erin is attentive and always making her stuff. He provides for her. What is it Ben does again??? Gil works too. And Kelly actually plans things like parties and raises kids. I think Gil tolerates JB and they are friendly. I remember Gil's birthday party where they brought out all his old friends and people who shaped his life. I seriously doubt the Duggars could round up people like that for JB. JB is most likely jealous of Gil. Gil imho is most likely secretly enjoying the downfall. Not so superior now huh, helmet head!

You just made my day! Helmet head, lmao!!!! :lol:

I think other than the fact that Chad Paine is a great guy all around, the Bates are as awful as the Duggars. Don't laugh so much Gil, your time will come.

[SoybeanQueen]

I agree, he's probably laughing at JimBob's misfortunes right now. But once the smug takes hold.... Well, you can see how well that's going for the Duggars.

[princessmahina]

I think Gil should patiently wait his turn. The Fall of the House of Bates will be along soon enough, though I don't think it will be as grand or dramatic.

But yeah, right now, he's probably having a chuckle. I would feel guilty about it, but I would.

[JenniferJuniper]

I think Gil should patiently wait his turn. The Fall of the House of Bates will be along soon enough, though I don't think it will be as grand or dramatic.

But yeah, right now, he's probably having a chuckle. I would feel guilty about it, but I would.

Agree completely.

Just having 19 kids dramatically increases the odds that one will be trouble - or troubled. Toss in TV shows and money and you're bound to have drama at some point sooner or later.

[Fundie Bunny]

Agree completely.

Just having 19 kids dramatically increases the odds that one will be trouble - or troubled. Toss in TV shows and money and you're bound to have drama at some point sooner or later.

Their drama will be a shunned child. Not a fucking molester

[formergothardite]

I think their drama will probably involve IBLP and Gil siding with a sexual predator and protecting him. I don't believe they were ever really close friends, but that Gil is a first class grifter so he probably didn't care that Jim Bob kept bringing up that they built the Bates house. I think that Gil probably was very happy to use the Duggars to get things and then a television show. They also had the added bonus of being able to watch what people disliked about the Duggars and make sure that they appear more likable on TV. They learned how to hide the crazy better. They had a slip-up with revealing their worship of a KKK leader, but they were able to convince people that they totally didn't know that they devoted an entire room to celebrating the Confederacy. :roll:

[MatthewDuggar]

His IBLP Board of directors bio still praises the Duggars:

iblp.org/about-iblp/corporate-information/board-directors

[MLE]

I do think they were very competitive and more frenemies than friends. I don't think it's laughing as much as poor Duggars/ we need to pray for them to the public, but in private I think he's satisfied to get the best of JB.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

His IBLP Board of directors bio still praises the Duggars:

iblp.org/about-iblp/corporate-information/board-directors

Something that has always made me wonder is why JB was cool being part of a cult where he wasn't on the board. On the board he could have had a hand in controlling everyone's family rather than just his own. He doesn't strike me as a guy happily contributing from the outfield. Seems more like the guy who would take his bat and go home if he couldn't be team captain.

Either they asked him to join the board and he declined or they never asked him. I'd make book on the former because I don't see his ego allowing Gil and the other board members to keep him as a mere follower, but if it was by his own volition it would be different. Maybe politically it would have hurt him (before those hopes were dashed) maybe TLC didn't want a star that had an official role in an organization they worked so hard not to mention by name. I don't know - but even unofficially he doesn't seem like he was a major player and that's pretty ooc for JB.

ETA from the link above:

Not only does Gil bring to the Board a wealth of practical wisdom on marriage and training up sons and daughters, but he also has a marvelous testimony about combining prayer, initiative, diligence, creativity, and patience in providing for his family. This has included a large home, a tree-trimming business with special equipment, and family transportation—all without a steady income and no debt!

Emphasis mine.

• Isn't the bar set kinda low when having family transportation is note worthy? We don't have bios at my work, but I'd really hope I'd have bigger achievements to mention than the fact that I managed to purchase a car at some point.

• A tree trimming business with special equipment? Is that to differentiate from all the tree trimming businesses with no equipment where they just come out and look at your dying or fallen trees and say, "Yep. That tree sure needs to come down. Too bad I don't have any of that special chopping and hauling equipment or I'd take care of it for ya." Seriously, wtf kind of sentence is that?

• And finally can these dumb-asses stop acting like having a steady income is on par with repeated bouts of chlamydia? A steady income is must have for most adults who want to be able to provide for themselves and their families without the Bates level of "creativity" which sounds fucking terrifying.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

You just made my day! Helmet head, lmao!!!! :lol:

I think other than the fact that Chad Paine is a great guy all around, the Bates are as awful as the Duggars. Don't laugh so much Gil, your time will come.

Well there is supposedly video surveillance within the Bates house--I'm pretty sure Kelly was shown saying something like "It helps know where everyone is..." So I can't say that the differences are that great--the Bates chopped up their house into more bedrooms, but most have mixed age groups so there's always a little darling to tattle-tale on the older ones. The main difference is the Bates needed to marry off kids to survive--at least until their new show. Since UP Network isn't as popular as TLC I imagine that make fine money, but nothing like the Duggars were probably getting.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Well there is supposedly video surveillance within the Bates house--I'm pretty sure Kelly was shown saying something like "It helps know where everyone is..." So I can't say that the differences are that great--the Bates chopped up their house into more bedrooms, but most have mixed age groups so there's always a little darling to tattle-tale on the older ones. The main difference is the Bates needed to marry off kids to survive--at least until their new show. Since UP Network isn't as popular as TLC I imagine that make fine money, but nothing like the Duggars were probably getting.

That is so freaking creepy. We have some extra security cameras and I jokingly mentioned it would be funny to set them up so we have have Cat(dog)-cams like Angela in The Office and I could watch my fur-babies while I was away. I was immediately and loudly shouted down...the mere joke about inside cameras nearly caused a mutiny. That's just creepy.

I've told my kids since they were small that there is a big difference between negative secrets and privacy. Way too many people in the fundy world seemed to have missed this lesson.

[December]

Emphasis mine.

• Isn't the bar set kinda low when having family transportation is note worthy? We don't have bios at my work, but I'd really hope I'd have bigger achievements to mention than the fact that I managed to purchase a car at some point.

• A tree trimming business with special equipment? Is that to differentiate from all the tree trimming businesses with no equipment where they just come out and look at your dying or fallen trees and say, "Yep. That tree sure needs to come down. Too bad I don't have any of that special chopping and hauling equipment or I'd take care of it for ya." Seriously, wtf kind of sentence is that?

• And finally can these dumb-asses stop acting like having a steady income is on par with repeated bouts of chlamydia? A steady income is must have for most adults who want to be able to provide for themselves and their families without the Bates level of "creativity" which sounds fucking terrifying.

Yeah, I really don't get why not having a steady income is a point of pride. Even the Duggars had the used car lot at some point. I'm guessing it's just another way to show how "blessed" they are, that they don't have to put in work or foresight because God will provide? I think the "no debt" claim might be important, too. If you have a steady income and purchase a car in cash, you're probably seen as good at budgeting but not like some financial guru. Without a steady income, though, the feat seems more amazing. And to many people improbable, and potentially fiscally irresponsible.

I'm mostly disturbed at the phrase "training up sons and daughters." I know it's from Proverbs initially, but I always just think of the Pearls' book.

[HereticHick]

Now that we know that Gothard empire is financially suffering and the main "campus" is going to be put up for sale, I wonder if Gil is still enjoying being on the IBLP Board? I don't see how it can be any fun to be on the Board of an organization that is circling the drain...

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Now that we know that Gothard empire is financially suffering and the main "campus" is going to be put up for sale, I wonder if Gil is still enjoying being on the IBLP Board? I don't see how it can be any fun to be on the Board of an organization that is circling the drain...

Especially when your eldest daughter just married a guy whose checks are signed by the very org that's going under. Although I'm sure Gil knew about the money issues long before the wedding so either he thinks/knows Brandon is employable elsewhere or he has that much faith in the God providing thing.

I was just about to post some snarky comment about how he ignores the part of the bible where it says "the Lord helps those who help themselves" but I googled first and see it's not actually a biblical passage. I really have no idea what's in that book. I'd think there has to be something in there about not being a grifting slackass, right?

ETA I couldn't find slack ass, but there is a slack hand in the bible! Who knew? Take note, Gil and Kelly:

Proverbs 10:4 ESV

A slack hand causes poverty, but the hand of the diligent makes rich.

And for good measure...mostly because the word sluggard makes me laugh:

• 2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV : For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

• Proverbs 14:23 ESV :In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.

• Proverbs 21:25 ESV : The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor.

• 1 Timothy 5:8 ESV : But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

[HarleyQuinn]

Gil and JB always gave me the frenemies vibe because I always felt like JB was trying to one up Gil the way he does his sons.

Gil probably gets some amusement out of the Duggar downfall, but he should be thankful that these tabloids are so focused on the Duggars that they haven't looked into the Bates. The drama surrounding Whitney alone (Making he wear skirts, shaming her and Zach for kissing pre-marriage, encouraging her to let her abusive bio parents back into her life while shutting out her adoptive parents)

However I think the real Bates drama will be that Gil knew about Gothard perving on young girls and did nothing about it.

JB not being on the IBLP board is interesting. I never thought about that before. Maybe he didn't want to be because that still means answering to someone else when we all know JB, the ultimate narcissist would want to be fully in charge. He probably wanted Gothard's job and nothing less.

[candygirl200413]

Dumb Question: For a board position is it an additional income? Because could that mean he gets a steady income from being on the ATI board?

I also don't get his debt because for those that watch the show they grift such as:

- Having aunts/uncles/grandparents pay for the children's braces

- Bartering with doctors/dentists about doing "tree" work in exchange for cheaper pricing on whatever service is needed for the kids.

Those are the only two that come to mind based on Bringing up Bates that they've talked about.

[HereticHick]

I am not at all sure that Gil gets a salary for being on the IBLP Board. He may just get expenses paid to attend board meetings, plus discount/free attendance at family camp, free curriculum materials etc. When the kids have gone on mission trips w/ Gothard, their travel is probably discounted or free. Of course he also speaks at IBLP conferences (often with Kelly), and he at least gets his expenses paid there, and perhaps a speaking fee on top of that.

[JenniferJuniper]

Their drama will be a shunned child. Not a fucking molester

Well, I don't know them well enough to place odds but according to the Duggars, sibling molestation in the home is rampant. :pink-shock:

But it's money that is usually at the root of dysfunction amongst reality show families. I doubt fundies are exempt.