Duggars Vs. Bates

[grandmadugger]

I was just thinking about the Duggars vs. Bates spreadsheet I made a few months back. I was giving/subtracting points from them for various reasons. It's pointless now - because of dear old Josh, the Duggars are losing by a hundred points at least...

Only a hundred? :lol:

[MistofRain752]

If Josh had Meredith in the literal sense, I bet his views on contraception and/or abortion would "evolve".

I think Josh was not real happy about Anna getting pregnant with the 4th. I am not defending Josh but I think he wanted to wait and that added more pressure and with any addiction it becomes worse. I do not blame Anna in any way shape or form. The man needs help! Anna needs to run, she is too easy going for Josh.

The Bates are more liberal with their children. Praise Jesus! They have not been as strict on the girls as far as clothing, hair and makeup. They have allowed their children to form their own personality. Zach was trying the fundie way but rebelled with the help of Alyssa. She introduced Zack to Whitney, his parents didn't approve but he went with his heart! Good for Zach! They admitted to kissing before marriage, nothing wrong with that. Michael said she and Brandon were going to hug the normal way, they did with everyone else why not them. Good for her. I spotted Alyssa and John with his arm around her long before they announced their courtship, same with Erin and Chad. Kelly has said on their blog several times, as time as gone on they have changed the rules, learning as parents.

[meep]

Okay people, here's the thing....

Some of the funnest people I know are still fundies. I have a blast with them. As in, good clean fun. You know how sometimes - very rare, occasional times - we have wistful thinking of "the good old days" of our childhood? We want to have conversation where there's no dirty innuendo? We want to have a good clean outing look board games? Good clean pranks? That's what people like the Bates provide. Visiting them? being casual friends with them? Probably awesome. Living with them? Living under their rules? 24/7? Every day? Of your entire life? Miserable. Dangerous. Suicidal.

That's the 411 on why the Bates are seemingly friendly but also dangerous. I know these type of people. The difference between the Bates family and the Duggar family...both are equally dangerous but; Bates parents are doing it because they truly think this is the best way to raise a family; Duggars are doing it out of fear of hell and retribution and image. I've never actually personally met a fundie family like the Duggars. They are the weirdos amonst the weirdos.

This is why, in my book, the Bates family "wins" every time.

[JenniferJuniper]

I know the Bates are dangerous--but I still can't stop hoping that Joseph Duggar has returned to Crown College for the fall semester & is living with the Bates. [sure, it would be better if he were in a dorm, but anyplace is better than the Duggar compound right now] And I'd love for him to bring some siblings along with him.

I can't imagine Gil and Kelly want a Duggar boy living with their family.

He's probably back on the Clown College campus, which I'm sure is a far better situation than home right now.

[imokit]

Key difference between a Bates daughter and a Duggar girl - the Bates girls get jobs/college.

Even though they stick to fundy approved things - Michael was a volunteer firefighter and has missed family events due to babysitting.

Erin went to Crown completed a music degree and then worked as a piano teaching (including post marriage).

Compared with Jana & Jill who never had even those limited opportunities as their absence would make Michelle parent her littles.

Those Bates girls have far more skills than their Duggar counterparts - Erin & Michael could support themselves if something happened and they know it.

Has a Duggar girl ever earned money in her own name (the TV show doesn't count)?

[Georgiana]

Key difference between a Bates daughter and a Duggar girl - the Bates girls get jobs/college.

Even though they stick to fundy approved things - Michael was a volunteer firefighter and has missed family events due to babysitting.

Erin went to Crown completed a music degree and then worked as a piano teaching (including post marriage).

Compared with Jana & Jill who never had even those limited opportunities as their absence would make Michelle parent her littles.

Those Bates girls have far more skills than their Duggar counterparts - Erin & Michael could support themselves if something happened and they know it.

Has a Duggar girl ever earned money in her own name (the TV show doesn't count)?

To be fair though, the Bates girls probably never would have been allowed to work if their family had the resources the Duggars did by the time their daughters were working age. I think the Bates girls had jobs out of necessity, not because their parents wanted them to/supported that.

[imokit]

Erin started college before the Bates were famous and had money. She was working into her marriage & pregnancy.

Tori is at college now with the Bates having resources and has started since they became more famous.

Crown must cost more than the college plus the Duggar girls complete and was in Erin's case started when the family was poor.

Considering the fact that girls aren't supposed to work, the fact that when poor the Bates paid for Erin to go college instead of staying home sister momming or working as a nanny, it puts them way ahead of the Duggars.

[Georgiana]

Erin started college before the Bates were famous and had money. She was working into her marriage & pregnancy.

Tori is at college now with the Bates having resources and has started since they became more famous.

Crown must cost more than the college plus the Duggar girls complete and was in Erin's case started when the family was poor.

Considering the fact that girls aren't supposed to work, the fact that when poor the Bates paid for Erin to go college instead of staying home sister momming or working as a nanny, it puts them way ahead of the Duggars.

The Bates did NOT pay for Erin. Erin paid for herself AND borrowed money from her working brother Lawson. Erin had to teach piano while she was in college to pay the tuition/books/etc. Note that Tori does not appear to have a job.

[socalrules]

I think the Bates are different in that I think Kelly would freak out if her kid fell down a hole like the Duggar boy did. I doubt she would pull out her cell phone and start taking pictures like Michelle. Kelly doesn't seem detached from her kids like Michelle. Yes they have the same beliefs but I think the Bates seem more willing to bend and make changes when the circumstances necessitate it. I don't see any of the Duggar kids meeting the person they want to marry on their own life Josh. I doubt any of the Duggar girls will be allowed any type of education or a job that allows them to make their own money. The Bates kids seem to also be allowed to develop individual personalities, unlike the Duggar kids who were raised to think and speak exactly the same. No one is allowed separate dreams, hopes or aspirations in the Duggar family. I don't see that with the Bates. Can you imagine the Duggars allowing a daughter to have as much training as Erin? That girl worked hard to get that good.

[violynn]

Okay people, here's the thing....

Some of the funnest people I know are still fundies. I have a blast with them. As in, good clean fun. You know how sometimes - very rare, occasional times - we have wistful thinking of "the good old days" of our childhood? We want to have conversation where there's no dirty innuendo? We want to have a good clean outing look board games? Good clean pranks? That's what people like the Bates provide. Visiting them? being casual friends with them? Probably awesome. Living with them? Living under their rules? 24/7? Every day? Of your entire life? Miserable. Dangerous. Suicidal.

That's the 411 on why the Bates are seemingly friendly but also dangerous. I know these type of people. The difference between the Bates family and the Duggar family...both are equally dangerous but; Bates parents are doing it because they truly think this is the best way to raise a family; Duggars are doing it out of fear of hell and retribution and image. I've never actually personally met a fundie family like the Duggars. They are the weirdos amonst the weirdos.

This is why, in my book, the Bates family "wins" every time.

You're right. As Lord Peter Wimsey explained, "The first thing a principle does is kill somebody." There's nothing more dangerous than a believer turned zealot. The Bates definitely fit that bill.

[Mylnijya]

1. The only way the Bates are "allowed" to be more real is because the Duggars paved the way for them. Kelly doesn't have to deal with answering to the public's disbelief and outrage over having a bunch of kids. The Duggars already handled that.

2. Gil does have a real job. And they do let the kids go to "college" although I don't know much about Crown College or what sort of curriculum they offer.

3. Gil and Kelly do allow their children (I think) to have private conversations when courting. I don't think the Duggars allow this. Aren't they able to see all of their texts?

4. Remember the Duggars have been on tv for 10 years. The Bates are more normal because they haven't been raised in front of cameras.

5. Michael is definitely a sister-mom, no doubt about that.

[RosyDaisy]

I think the Bates have a lot skeletons in their closet. Behind that sugary sweet facade lies a dark side. It's just a matter of time before they are made public.

[martian]

I am never getting over the "Patriot Room" with Nathan Bedford Forrest on the wall. Nev.er. Of all the confederate douches to hero worship, they choose a founder of the KKK. And then Kelly lied like a rug when they were called on it. Didn't she claim something like, "Oh, oopsie! Thought it was just a picture of a relative!" Aaaand down the memory hole it went. No.

Bates are just a tastier flavour of the same brand of koolaid as the Duggars.

[hilee]

Is Lawson a pimp or something? Oil tycoon?

I keep seeing that everyone borrows from the bank of Lawson and I just have to wonder!

[Percy]

the big difference between the families is the Gil and Kelly went to college and Jim Bob and Michelle did not. One family knows the value of education the other does not. G & K have raised adults who make their own choices and live with their decisions. JB & M have raised kidualts who still look to the parent for decision making and for a response when poor choices are made.

[RosyDaisy]

I am never getting over the "Patriot Room" with Nathan Bedford Forrest on the wall. Nev.er. Of all the confederate douches to hero worship, they choose a founder of the KKK. And then Kelly lied like a rug when they were called on it. Didn't she claim something like, "Oh, oopsie! Thought it was just a picture of a relative!" Aaaand down the memory hole it went. No.

Bates are just a tastier flavour of the same brand of koolaid as the Duggars.

I'm Southern, and those pictures offended me. It was offensive and they damned well knew that. They can't play the ignorant card on that one. Nope. Ain't buying it. If it weren't for their first show about to air, those pictures would still be hanging on the wall. Racists assholes. Kelly has a black adopted sister for God's sake! How could she do that?

[nokidsmom]

Gil and Kelly need to keep Nathan and all their children away from Jim Bob and Michelle.

While I still hold to my belief that the Bateseses are just as bad as the Duggars as far as their beliefs go, I will agree that they should keep all their kids away from JB and J'chelle.

And sure as hell not marry into the family. Yes, I know the kids are friends but really even I don't wish a Bateseses kid to marry into the known clusterfuck that is the Duggar family.

Granted, the Bateseses might have their own skeletons in their closets but until something actually comes out on them, I have no basis to assume that that are any.

[TuringMachine]

the big difference between the families is the Gil and Kelly went to college and Jim Bob and Michelle did not. One family knows the value of education the other does not. G & K have raised adults who make their own choices and live with their decisions. JB & M have raised kidualts who still look to the parent for decision making and for a response when poor choices are made.

I think you're absolutely right, though I would add that I've always felt like Kelly Jo is more involved with her kids than Michelle too. I've never got the impression Michelle really cares about her kids (further supported by everything that happened with the molestations). The Bates kids seem to have more normal sibling relationships than the Duggars and I think it's because they had more of a mom in their lives. Of course this is just based on observations while watching their shows, so I might be way off.

[CorruptionInc.]

It's those accents. The Bates' Southern Tone (and Jessa's - I know she's a tyrant but that voice!) is what sucks you in! It's so homely!

[Fundie Bunny]

After Joshgate 1.0 and 2.0 i figured out we neded to update the cojnt.

Right now is -94 for the duggars (as joshgate 1.0 was a criminal act and not a simple scandal) and 64 for the bates after Michael's wedding

[justmy2cents]

After Joshgate 1.0 and 2.0 i figured out we neded to update the cojnt.

Right now is -94 for the duggars (as joshgate 1.0 was a criminal act and not a simple scandal) and 64 for the bates after Michael's wedding

Now the pressure's on Michelle to produce number 20 to get that 100 points back!

[nokidsmom]

I think you're absolutely right, though I would add that I've always felt like Kelly Jo is more involved with her kids than Michelle too. I've never got the impression Michelle really cares about her kids (further supported by everything that happened with the molestations). The Bates kids seem to have more normal sibling relationships than the Duggars and I think it's because they had more of a mom in their lives. Of course this is just based on observations while watching their shows, so I might be way off.

Agree that Kelly is more involved with her kids but she still has to rely on help from her daughters to help with the kids and maintain the home. There's no way around it but it is still unfair to task a daughter from an early age to make all the meals for the family or for one to do all the laundry.

Yes, Gil and Kelly have college educations yet they still limited their kids to the SOTDRT and unaccredited Crown College. Erin had a chance to attend a real university and while it was said it was her choice not to go, seriously, would Gil and Kelly allow her to attend a public university unchaperoned? No way, so that tells you something about her "choice". She didn't have one she just thinks she did.

Yes, the kids have been "allowed" to make choices, but only the ones that Gil and Kelly approve of. While Kelly talks about married kids making their own choices out of the house, it's important to remember that all of the married kids have spouses associated to some degree or another with ATI. If Erin had met a non-fundie guy at Sonic, you can be darn sure that Gil would not approve. They tolerated Zach's situation because Whit was being brought into the family as a wife and under the family headship. That would not be the case with a husband.

[HarleyQuinn]

Is Lawson a pimp or something? Oil tycoon?

I keep seeing that everyone borrows from the bank of Lawson and I just have to wonder!

I've always wondered about this too. His mediocre "country music" can't make that much money.

I wonder if there's still a possible courtship on the horizon for Joe, we all thought he'd get with Tori or Carlin. I wonder if they Bates want nothing to do with the Duggars now? After all, cheater Josh was at Michael's wedding a few days before the scandal broke.

Also didn't the Bates force Whitney to quit her job and wear skirts?

[formergothardite]

I think that Gil and Kelly are probably smarter about keeping their skeletons nicely tucked into the closets. I imagine that Gil, especially, has some really dark ones with him being deeply involved in the inner workings of IBLP. Gil didn't get where he is by having strong morals. It might be a long time till they come to light, but I am pretty sure that one day they will and the Bates won't look nearly as appealing.

[HereticHick]

I've always wondered about this too. His mediocre "country music" can't make that much money.

I wonder if there's still a possible courtship on the horizon for Joe, we all thought he'd get with Tori or Carlin. I wonder if they Bates want nothing to do with the Duggars now? After all, cheater Josh was at Michael's wedding a few days before the scandal broke.

Also didn't the Bates force Whitney to quit her job and wear skirts?

I seriously doubt, when you factor in studio rental fees, equipment purchase/rental, etc., that Lawson has ever made a cent of profit from his mediocre music. He's broken even, if he's lucky.

I wouldn't be surprised if Erin has sold more CD's and downloads that Lawson has.