Jump to content
IGNORED

Duggars Vs. Bates


singsingsing

Recommended Posts

Honestly? They're in one of the most victim-blaming cultures that exists. IF one of the well-known QF daughters was assaulted, I suspect (with anger and sadness) that they'd send her TO something like JTTH to "repent". Or one of the unwed mothers' homes if she had the misfortune of becoming pregnant. And that's IF she said anything to anyone or there was evidence that something happened. This is the QF/IFB culture, after all, in which the benefit of the doubt is reserved for abusers.

Hear hear to that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 567
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I'm guessing Gothard was/is smart enough to pick some well known in their circle, teen girls to travel with that he NEVER molested and probably treated like a granddaughter (in a good way). What better way to defend himself if the sh*t ever hit the fan big time or legally? Having an Erin Bates testify in his defense would go a LONG way in creating a reasonable doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh my. Out of curiosity, I just went back and watched that episode of 17KAC where the Bates visit. So much comedy gold. I was practically on the floor laughing at some of it.

First off, Kelly took a pee test and found out she was pregnant at an Arkansas gas station with her 17th. At 4am.

Amy's description of the Bateses: "They seem really nice. They seem like they have a lot of... principles that they share." She said this very slowly and cautiously as if she was struggling to come up with something, anything at all nice to say about them. She very clearly thought they were escapees from the madhouse. :lol:

When they decided to visit a Christian amusement park for "wholesome, family fun," Amy also made numerous comments about not wanting to be there, but went anyway for her cousins. "Well, they like it because it's Christian, and they all wear the same kind of dresses that they used to wear... or the Bates STILL wear."

Before they left on the trip, Zach was asked what type of person he thought previously owned the van. He said "Probably someone who sold pharmaceuticals illegally." :lol: God bless you for that, Zach.

While there, they showed the families standing around watching candy being made. The look on Jinger's face was straight "This shit is STUPID." Even Amy looked more enthused.

Kelly creepily hung on Gil's arm, staring at him the entire episode with a shit-eating grin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With their level of homeschooling, that amusement park with real blacksmiths and candymakers was considered educational for them. And the last thing those 38 crazed kids needed was pure sugar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember that amusement park episode. Does that place still exist? I know they didn't show a lot of it, but it seemed beyond boring. Were'nt they also giving a nail making (!) demonstration?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gil and Kelly have really polished their image since their first time on TV. Is the original horse episode at their house available online? They edited it after that first showing, but the original one made them look like shitty people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Bates' creep me out as much as the Duggars, but in different. Michelle openly looks crazy, but Kelly is better able to hide. Jim Bob looks like a helmet headed Ken doll wannabe, but Gil bears a striking resemblance to my second cousin, who is a registered sex offender and who will be sitting in prison and will be for many more years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think that it would ever occur to them that anything bad would happen with Gothard or any of the higher ups in the organization. These people believe that if you follow the "rules" and only associate with the right people, bad things won't happen. Your kids won't have pre-marital sex, their marriages will be pure of heart without abuse and everything will be non-gay rainbows and unicorns. They would believe their kids are safest with someone like Gothard who estolls the virtues they try to live up to. Gothard is like their Jesus. If they truly believed that he would commit such a sin, they have have to admit to themselves that everything he has taught them is a lie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, I'm in the camp that Gil=heebyjeebies.

But that being said, In the episode where Michael's BF comes to town and Gil/Kelly take Michael & Brandon to a park, forest, whatever, I noticed a few things that does distinguish them from their just as insane, yet different, whackos JB & Jchelle:

1) they allow this long term relationship-- JB wants a ring in it pronto in his house

2) the actually use the word "boyfriend" I don't ever recall that compound word being utter at TTH

3) while they do the whacky chaperoning, Michael & Brandon were allowed to walk ahead to have a private convo. Gil & Kelly said it's important for them to have those moments. Granted this is right before Gil & Kelly whip out one of their crazy ass God workbooks for the couple to work through--JB & Jchelle never promoted that idea of a couple having time to talk alone pre-marriage. Granted, Jill and Derrick could've tossed a cookie, and while James the chaperone chased after it, had a private talk; however, this small intimacy is not promoted over in AR.

4) my favorite difference, they just call him BRANDON. Drives me up a wall that they can't just say BEN or at the time DERRICK. It's always Ben SEEWALD. We have Ben SEEWALD living up here with us now. Thanks for the clarification guys, I was confused between Ben Seewald, Ben Franklin, Gentle Ben, or the rat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Gil is slimy with financial stuff, but I think he seems like a nice dad. He seems appropriately affectionate with the kids, and they seem comfortable with him. He seems much more hands on with the little kids than Kelly is. And I thought he handled poor Jeb(?) and his crushed fingers very well.

Would I want to do business with the man? No. Do I think he uses good safety practices with the tree business? Questionable. Would I want sit through one of his chalk drawing lessons? Absolutely Not. Do I respect his plan to not work, but rely on hand outs or money for his children to make ends meet? No Way. But I think in the day to day stuff with the kids, he does fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, I'm in the camp that Gil=heebyjeebies.

But that being said, In the episode where Michael's BF comes to town and Gil/Kelly take Michael & Brandon to a park, forest, whatever, I noticed a few things that does distinguish them from their just as insane, yet different, whackos JB & Jchelle:

1) they allow this long term relationship-- JB wants a ring in it pronto in his house

2) the actually use the word "boyfriend" I don't ever recall that compound word being utter at TTH

3) while they do the whacky chaperoning, Michael & Brandon were allowed to walk ahead to have a private convo. Gil & Kelly said it's important for them to have those moments. Granted this is right before Gil & Kelly whip out one of their crazy ass God workbooks for the couple to work through--JB & Jchelle never promoted that idea of a couple having time to talk alone pre-marriage. Granted, Jill and Derrick could've tossed a cookie, and while James the chaperone chased after it, had a private talk; however, this small intimacy is not promoted over in AR.

4) my favorite difference, they just call him BRANDON. Drives me up a wall that they can't just say BEN or at the time DERRICK. It's always Ben SEEWALD. We have Ben SEEWALD living up here with us now. Thanks for the clarification guys, I was confused between Ben Seewald, Ben Franklin, Gentle Ben, or the rat.

How long were Ben and Jessa courting for before she had a ring? I know Brandon and Michael have been courting for over a year (but I suspect they're already engaged and they're waiting for it to air just like Erin's pregnancy). Also Brandon had to finish school before he gets married (novel concept Ben).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How long were Ben and Jessa courting for before she had a ring? I know Brandon and Michael have been courting for over a year (but I suspect they're already engaged and they're waiting for it to air just like Erin's pregnancy). Also Brandon had to finish school before he gets married (novel concept Ben).

According to E! Online, 11 months and a few days. I don't know how that time is divided out between Ben driving to visit Jessa and before JB said let's move this along Ben Seewald, come live in my storage facility. When they had 42 days left to wedding, Ben said it had been a "few months" since he moved to NW AR.

The last episode I saw of Bates, they were saying the guy needs to save up for a ring, a way to afford a wife you know silly things that Benessa never concerned themselves with. Of course it could all be a sham, and they have X amount of plot points to hit, and it's not her turn yet. I think if they are engaged, they wouldn't make an announcement until Brandon had a real job.

A weird moment that made me think either Benessa didn't normally greet each other with a side hug ∨ have done a little more, is wedding dress episode Jessa approached him and he was all "side hug now?" like are we doing this for the camera to demonstrate our chastity? Or maybe he just asks for side hugs and now that they are married he asks for blowjobs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's always Ben SEEWALD. We have Ben SEEWALD living up here with us now. Thanks for the clarification guys, I was confused between Ben Seewald, Ben Franklin, Gentle Ben, or the rat.

:lol:

This made me laugh way too hard and for way too long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ideologies aside, I think the Bates family is a bit more hip than the Duggar family. I seriously have to believe that Kelly did NOT partake in blanket training as did Michelle. The Bates kids just seem too happy and loved. They are also more independent that the Duggars. I don't think Gil and Kelly have the creepy control over their brood that Michelle and JB do. Alyssa is in Florida--and I love the fact that Alyssa has strict rules about how her siblings have to behave. She really has seemed to put her foot down instead of the wishy-washiness and "sweetness" that the Duggars have. I do believe Alyssa knows how to measure out a decent helping or 20 of rice! Erin's issues with pregnancy make her and her husband more humane as well. I also enjoy the interaction with Kelly and Gil and the younger kids--they are hands on and they look like they actually enjoy and have a good time with their kids.

I'm hoping the Bates' ratings go up much higher than the Duggar's --it would kill Jim Bob! But moreso, I hope there is NEVER a Duggar/Bates union!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to E! Online, 11 months and a few days. I don't know how that time is divided out between Ben driving to visit Jessa and before JB said let's move this along Ben Seewald, come live in my storage facility. When they had 42 days left to wedding, Ben said it had been a "few months" since he moved to NW AR.

The last episode I saw of Bates, they were saying the guy needs to save up for a ring, a way to afford a wife you know silly things that Benessa never concerned themselves with. Of course it could all be a sham, and they have X amount of plot points to hit, and it's not her turn yet. I think if they are engaged, they wouldn't make an announcement until Brandon had a real job.

A weird moment that made me think either Benessa didn't normally greet each other with a side hug ∨ have done a little more, is wedding dress episode Jessa approached him and he was all "side hug now?" like are we doing this for the camera to demonstrate our chastity? Or maybe he just asks for side hugs and now that they are married he asks for blowjobs.

I thought Brandon worked for ATI. I can recall a video that TFDW and Prissy narrated that Brandon illustrated. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ideologies aside, I think the Bates family is a bit more hip than the Duggar family. I seriously have to believe that Kelly did NOT partake in blanket training as did Michelle. The Bates kids just seem too happy and loved. They are also more independent that the Duggars. I don't think Gil and Kelly have the creepy control over their brood that Michelle and JB do. Alyssa is in Florida--and I love the fact that Alyssa has strict rules about how her siblings have to behave. She really has seemed to put her foot down instead of the wishy-washiness and "sweetness" that the Duggars have. I do believe Alyssa knows how to measure out a decent helping or 20 of rice! Erin's issues with pregnancy make her and her husband more humane as well. I also enjoy the interaction with Kelly and Gil and the younger kids--they are hands on and they look like they actually enjoy and have a good time with their kids.

I'm hoping the Bates' ratings go up much higher than the Duggar's --it would kill Jim Bob! But moreso, I hope there is NEVER a Duggar/Bates union!

I think that they are more hip to what they need to do to make themselves appear likable. Jim Bob and Michelle just aren't able to pull off making the ATI/Quiverfull lifestyle look normal and happy.

Since Kelly is a huge fan of Ezzo the Monster, I have no trouble believing she treated her babies just as badly as Michelle did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol:

This made me laugh way too hard and for way too long.

My guess is that they are trying to help build the name up for PR purposes. It's like a constant reminder that when we hear Jessa Seewald that she is still affiliated with the Duggars. That and the Duggars are weird....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My guess is that they are trying to help build the name up for PR purposes. It's like a constant reminder that when we hear Jessa Seewald that she is still affiliated with the Duggars. That and the Duggars are weird....

I always thought the "I'm engaged to Derick Dillard" "I'm currently courting Derick Dillard" "I'm on my way to see my hubby Ben Seewald" was their way of having like, an FAQ on air so people tuning in (or just starting to check out their social media) would know who the fuck they're talking about right away.

Although it could honestly just be because they're SO IN LUUURVE that they can't just say a first name. idk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, I'm in the camp that Gil=heebyjeebies.

But that being said, In the episode where Michael's BF comes to town and Gil/Kelly take Michael & Brandon to a park, forest, whatever, I noticed a few things that does distinguish them from their just as insane, yet different, whackos JB & Jchelle:

1) they allow this long term relationship-- JB wants a ring in it pronto in his house

2) the actually use the word "boyfriend" I don't ever recall that compound word being utter at TTH

3) while they do the whacky chaperoning, Michael & Brandon were allowed to walk ahead to have a private convo. Gil & Kelly said it's important for them to have those moments. Granted this is right before Gil & Kelly whip out one of their crazy ass God workbooks for the couple to work through--JB & Jchelle never promoted that idea of a couple having time to talk alone pre-marriage. Granted, Jill and Derrick could've tossed a cookie, and while James the chaperone chased after it, had a private talk; however, this small intimacy is not promoted over in AR.

4) my favorite difference, they just call him BRANDON. Drives me up a wall that they can't just say BEN or at the time DERRICK. It's always Ben SEEWALD. We have Ben SEEWALD living up here with us now. Thanks for the clarification guys, I was confused between Ben Seewald, Ben Franklin, Gentle Ben, or the rat.

This doesn't diminish your point but I will point out the Duggar girls have used the word "boyfriend" in the past. It wasn't often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I just spent some time on Lawson Bates IG. (Home sick today and very bored)

Anyway, There are several video clips that include Joe. And on Lawson's webpage there are pics of him with some of the other Duggar boys, like JD and Jer, all with great big genuine smiles.

My observation is this: Even the Duggar kids (well the boys, anyway), seem happier and more relaxed hanging with the Bates family than their own. Joe was actually even animated, and even silly in one about snow days. I think he smiled and may have had more facial expressions in those clips with Lawson than I have ever observed during his time on his own show.

On the Bates Fam IG, there are some more pics of Joe, including one adorable one with Jeb who has snuggled up against him on the couch. I definitely get the feeling that the Bates household is more relaxed and more fun.

Another observation, Lawson has a video of a song about pork rinds. Kind of a cute song, I guess, about a potential wife giving him an ultimatum to choose between her or his pork rinds and so he chooses the pork rinds. It is just a silly song, but my point is I guess the Bates must be ok with eating pork, unlike the Duggars. I thought the whole No pork thing, was Gothard?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that they are more hip to what they need to do to make themselves appear likable. Jim Bob and Michelle just aren't able to pull off making the ATI/Quiverfull lifestyle look normal and happy.

Since Kelly is a huge fan of Ezzo the Monster, I have no trouble believing she treated her babies just as badly as Michelle did.

What's Ezzo the Monster? (I legitimately looked around and couldn't find another reference to it.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I just spent some time on Lawson Bates IG. (Home sick today and very bored)

Anyway, There are several video clips that include Joe. And on Lawson's webpage there are pics of him with some of the other Duggar boys, like JD and Jer, all with great big genuine smiles.

My observation is this: Even the Duggar kids (well the boys, anyway), seem happier and more relaxed hanging with the Bates family than their own. Joe was actually even animated, and even silly in one about snow days. I think he smiled and may have had more facial expressions in those clips with Lawson than I have ever observed during his time on his own show.

On the Bates Fam IG, there are some more pics of Joe, including one adorable one with Jeb who has snuggled up against him on the couch. I definitely get the feeling that the Bates household is more relaxed and more fun.

Another observation, Lawson has a video of a song about pork rinds. Kind of a cute song, I guess, about a potential wife giving him an ultimatum to choose between her or his pork rinds and so he chooses the pork rinds. It is just a silly song, but my point is I guess the Bates must be ok with eating pork, unlike the Duggars. I thought the whole No pork thing, was Gothard?

I think I remember Kelly talking about not eating pork. She said she's not against it in general but it's not good to eat pork when you're pregnant or something like that. Therefore there's no pork for the whole family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's Ezzo the Monster? (I legitimately looked around and couldn't find another reference to it.)

Gary Ezzo is a guy who wrote books about training babies. Babies have died and suffered from failure to thrive because his teachings. He is so bad that even Focus on the Family warns people about him and those were the new, updated, less likely to kill your baby books that they warned about. The original books were really, really dangerous. When James Dobson thinks the advice is too rigid then you know it is bad.

Kelly has also said they used Ezzo's crazy book about purity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get people's reservations about suggesting the Bates family is all sunshine and roses. They have a lot of very serious problems with their beliefs and Gil has done some pretty bad things with IBLP.

But I think it is honestly very obvious that they have been better parents than Jim Bob and Michelle. Despite the messed up beliefs, the body and purity shame, the sheltering, the unhealthy food...their kids seem SO much more emotionally well adjusted and comfortable with themselves, and that is one of the most important parts of parenting IMO. When your kids are resilient, confident, and have a good sense of self worth, they can weather difficult things as an adult. I don't think the Duggar kids are any of those things. I don't think they have an ounce of self worth, honestly. They always seem like they are trying desperately hard to prove they are good enough and Christian enough.

The Bates parents did SOMETHING right. It doesn't excuse all the things they did WRONG. But I do think it's pretty obvious that the Bates kids feel loved and valued. They seem to all be genuinely very close and supportive of each other...I've never really gotten that impression from the Duggars, honestly, and I think part of it is because Jim Bob and Michelle pit the kids against each other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I said above, even Joseph Duggar seems to enjoy being around the Bates more than his own family. He looks more relaxed, his smiles seem more genuine and on clips that Lawson has posted on his IG, he even shows a silly side to his personality.

I think there are more pics of Joe on Bates IG's than have ever been posted on the Duggars official social media.

I think you are right in that the bates seems like better parents and did something right. You are also right, in that doesn't excuse the other wrong things, but it does make me feel more hopeful for the Bates kids to have more options and perhaps a happier life.

I know that many have pointed out that the older Bates kids have been allowed to have jobs outside the home out of necessity because Gil needed the money. Even if that is the reason, the bottom line is that outcome of that is good news for the kids. Being allowed to work, even if only in a limited capacity will still be good experience for these kids, helps build their "resumes" up for future jobs, and might possibly give them exposure to other lifestyles in a more positive way.

I also don't have a problem with adult age kids, living at home being expected to make a financial contribution to the home, or at least pay some sort of room and board. I think it teaches those kids a good economy if they are not just fully living off of mom and dad.

I disagree, however, with using the income of an adult child to pay for essentials to run the parents household and family.

In my home, if an adult child comes home after college to live, and they have a job, they will be paying rent. What they won't realize however, is that I will take the rent that they pay, and put it into savings for them, so that when they are ready to move out, they will get a nice nest egg with which to start their future.

I would probably charge a rent of about 150 to 200 dollars which is a bargain, considering I also pay their car insurance and cell phone bills on my plan. So my daughter plans to live at home a year between graduation and grad school. So 200 a month will give her close to $2500 dollars in savings that she can use towards a move, or just keep as savings to fall back on if needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.