Erin (Bates) Paine is PREGNANT

[bekkah]

I typed while you were editing. I guess we both have found the highlight of the article. ;)

Not reading till the end and posting isn't always the smartest....

[whoviana]

Happens. Sometimes when I read a really outrageous blog entry or an article, I cannot *see and think straight and react hot-headedly. I skip parts.

So our Erin has it really good and they will have a doctor's verdict that will take the blame off their shoulders. Good.

[alba]

Article on Erin Bates pregnancy on people.

http://www.people.com/article/bringing- ... iscarriage

Link not broken b/c its people

She says they enjoy an equal partnership and that Chad has been taking care of her. Oh, and she looks good in glasses! They do seem more normal than the average fundie couple but I also have to realize that is the scary part of them too. I hope the baby is welcomed with much love.

EDIT: Forgot to add this. They also mentioned about family size. They say they are taking it one day at a time and decisions will be made with the doctors. It sounds like they may be sensible!

You know, Cherin are the kind of fundies I can see leaving fundiedom, even without the miscarriage and pregnancy difficulties they've had. They seem like the kind of second-generation fundies who are misguided but well-meaning, in that I think they genuinely believe that the beliefs and lifestyle their parents brought them up with are good and right, and this is complicated by the fact that they love their parents and find comfort in their faith. People like this tend to leave fundamentalism when they realise that these beliefs are harmful and inaccurate, because the last thing they want to do is harm others. I'm reminded of an interview I read once with a woman who was brought up in Westboro Baptist Church. As a teenager she was active in the organisation's "causes", and when asked what she hoped her legacy would be, she said she hoped she'd be remembered as someone who helped others. As a liberal adult, she still hopes that will be her legacy, but is a little horrified that as a teenager she thought telling gay people they'd go to hell was helpful. Chad and Erin strike me as the same kind of fundies: people who really do believe that their beliefs are in everyone's best interests, but who will also, if they realise they aren't, let go of those beliefs because they truly want to help others.

The fact that they're acknowledging a QF lifestyle isn't for them suggests to me that they are more open-minded than many fundies and are becoming aware that legalism isn't the answer to all of life's problems, and I hope that, in considering what's best for them in this instance, they will also find themselves re-examining other deeply-held beliefs and realising that they can love and respect their parents while also disagreeing with them.

[Mama Mia]

I don't ask you to go through my posting history, but once I briefly explained how I was the main subject to religious brainwashing in the family while the relatives with different religious backgrounds were busy fighting turf wars over my fragile mind. I was suicidal my entire life, their way of childraising and belief system didn't have a shred of consistency to it. They contradicted their own preaching with their actions every step of the way.

They profoundly f***ed me up for the rest of my life, I'm on meds and I was born unstable anyway.

I am trying to act like a functional adult in life but I don't trust people in general, I hate social events, I'm horrified at the idea of being part of a family because family to means womanslavery, control, physical, mental and spiritual abuse, limited possibilities, someone being the whipping cow, and constant fights over dominance among blood relatives. I will sooner take my life than being subjected to that one more time.

When I say that I am SORRY for what happened to you, and that I know how you feel, you must know I'm not just patting your shoulders trying to say something comforting.

edited because of riffles...

I don't even know either of you -- but my heart hurts for the burdens you brought from your childhoods. And how deeply it is impacting you today. I know it sounds trite and flippant -- and I really, really don't mean it that way -- but I hope you both come to see that you CAN have a future and a family ( however you define that) , that isn't a replica of all the things you hated. You might always have triggers, and things you need to work around, and things you just can't do ---but I really, really hope you both build the lives and connections you deserve.

[fabkiwi06]

I have high hopes for the Paine's. They seem - outwardly at least - to be a solid couple with their conservative views not seeming TOO insane (in comparison). Given all their fertility struggles, I'm gonna bet that their child is going to be heaped with love AND the Bates' seem like they're supportive in the next generation making different choices. I'm happy for them. I hope she has an easy pregnancy.

[Adrienne83]

Article on Erin Bates pregnancy on people.

http://www.people.com/article/bringing- ... iscarriage

Link not broken b/c its people

She says they enjoy an equal partnership and that Chad has been taking care of her. Oh, and she looks good in glasses! They do seem more normal than the average fundie couple but I also have to realize that is the scary part of them too. I hope the baby is welcomed with much love.

EDIT: Forgot to add this. They also mentioned about family size. They say they are taking it one day at a time and decisions will be made with the doctors. It sounds like they may be sensible!

Hey, I was right about her due date! She's due 13 days after me. I can sympathize with the horrible "morning" sickness. I'm still throwing up. :(

[theologygeek]

Erin is so darn cute, and I love her hair. I like the Bates family. They seem like a happy go lucky bunch. But it's still tv. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors.

[eh02]

I'm surprised people are acting like she is "lucky to have the doctor as an excuse." I'm sure Michelle and Kelly would have been advised against their 20th pregnancies, too, and that didn't stop them from trying. Listening to medical advice is not really in the picture here, as far as conceiving goes. "Leave it up to God" is not supposed to include a doctor's opinion. So if Erin actually is willing to listen to her doctor and TAKE CARE OF HER OWN HEALTH, that is actually a decent step forward, IMO. Erin was pretty clear about how having miscarriages changed her. I think she was forced to really grow up fast and change her perspective. Fundies seem to not only encourage women to keep having dangerous pregnancies, but practically worship the women at highest risk for "trusting God in hard times," as if the only way a woman can gain respect is to put herself through hell and feel utterly miserable 24/7.

Also, the way she talked about how difficult her pregnancy was been (to the point that she was fairly debilitated and could not teach piano even) makes me expect she will NOT be especially eager to go through this again as soon as possible. I'm sure Erin will want more children, but I honestly do expect she will take time to enjoy this one baby while she is healthy and well. It is very daunting to have to care for an infant when you are practically bedridden.

I wonder if maybe Erin is having a boy, based on painting the bedroom from light pink to green? Maybe to prepare for a nursery? No gender neutral fundie babies! They probably think putting a boy in a pink room will do irreversible damage :lol:

[Formosa]

I think it is a bit crass that people are saying how lucky she is to have to limit her family size now. There were also some comments when she had the miscarriages how great it was that this way she got to spend more time alone with her husband. She now has to have painful heparin shots twice a day to stay pregnant and is lucky to have this child (let alone any possible children). I am sure she is very grateful but it must have been bitter, too and that without people cheering on her misfortune.

[Idolatry]

I think it is a bit crass that people are saying how lucky she is to have to limit her family size now. There were also some comments when she had the miscarriages how great it was that this way she got to spend more time alone with her husband. She now has to have painful heparin shots twice a day to stay pregnant and is lucky to have this child (let alone any possible children). I am sure she is very grateful but it must have been bitter, too and that without people cheering on her misfortune.

There's an easy solution. Keep private things private. All she has to do is keep her uterine business off her blog, out of People magazine, and off of reality TV.

She wanted this attention. She actively sought it out and made it a reality TV storyline.

[eh02]

There's an easy solution. Keep private things private. All she has to do is keep her uterine business off her blog, out of People magazine, and off of reality TV.

She wanted this attention. She actively sought it out and made it a reality TV storyline.

I don't understand the argument that making things about your life public means you're free game for cruelty. :roll: It's one thing to criticize all of the messed up fundamentalist beliefs that treat women like breeding cattle - that is fair game and worth criticizing.

But to be glad that a woman has health issues that at best cause very difficult and painful pregnancies, and at worst, could make it impossible to stay pregnant at all, is just needlessly cruel, IMO. It is not wrong to want to have children. It's just wrong to have so many children that you cannot properly care for them. Erin is hardly at that point. She was facing the possibility that she could NEVER have children and was clearly devastated, as many women (even non-fundies) would be.

Telling a woman who has had multiple painful, traumatic miscarriages that they're a "blessing in disguise" is just as awful as fundies telling women their unwanted pregnancies are a "blessing." Nobody else should tell you how you are "supposed" to feel. It's your life alone. You are allowed to be sad for having fertility issues. You are allowed to struggle when your pregnancy is difficult. There is nothing wrong with that.

[nokidsmom]

This past year has had to been really bittersweet for Erin and she's had to do a lot of growing up. She got married to a great husband who she clearly adores and he her. She no doubt went into the marriage expecting to have a baby in short order and then experienced miscarriages instead. That in itself had to be really, really hard. While it's good they were able to nail the cause and she's expecting now and things seem to be progressing well, there had to be some real moments of dispair when she wondered if she could have any children ever. They seem thrilled but at the same time cautious, aware of the risks involved. Somehow, I don't think she and Chad are going to go down the road of having kids regardless of risks, leaving it up to God and all that. Chad doesn't strike me as some crazy fundie husband who expects to sacrifice his wife to childbearing and Erin is probably very, very thankful for the medical knowledge that's making this pregnancy possible for her.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Im glad that Erin is willing to listen to doctor's orders, and will not be having a large family if it puts her health at risk. I think it is a bad idea for someone with a condition like Erin's to be quiverfull, and I am glad she isn't going to put her body through things that could be very dangerous.

They seem really happy and I am glad that their relationship isn't one of submission, and that Chad is willing to do his fair share of chores without complaining.

[Firiel]

Okay, I'll say it and take leg-humper label in stride (because I'll probably deserve it)...

I WANT A CHAD, DAMMIT.

[feministxtian]

It seems that the Paine's marriage is quite different from the IBLP/ATI norm. I mean, a MAN doing dishes and housework? They seem to have pretty much broken the submission mold, and I think the driving force behind that was Chad. I don't think he wants a submissive wife nor a house full of children if it risks her health. I can see them having 2 maybe 4 kids (way spaced out) and Chad telling Erin, "no more". Their journey with infertility COULD BE the door that leads them out of some of that craziness.

Interesting considering that both of them come from the ATI heavy hitter families...

[Luisainlondon1]

It seems that the Paine's marriage is quite different from the IBLP/ATI norm. I mean, a MAN doing dishes and housework? They seem to have pretty much broken the submission mold, and I think the driving force behind that was Chad. I don't think he wants a submissive wife nor a house full of children if it risks her health. I can see them having 2 maybe 4 kids (way spaced out) and Chad telling Erin, "no more". Their journey with infertility COULD BE the door that leads them out of some of that craziness.

Interesting considering that both of them come from the ATI heavy hitter families...

I agree. Even though Chad's father is on the IBLP board it seems that neither Chad nor his brother Thomas want a submissive wife. Good for them (and their wives).

[Mama Mia]

It seems that the Paine's marriage is quite different from the IBLP/ATI norm. I mean, a MAN doing dishes and housework? They seem to have pretty much broken the submission mold, and I think the driving force behind that was Chad. I don't think he wants a submissive wife nor a house full of children if it risks her health. I can see them having 2 maybe 4 kids (way spaced out) and Chad telling Erin, "no more". Their journey with infertility COULD BE the door that leads them out of some of that craziness.

Interesting considering that both of them come from the ATI heavy hitter families...

I don't see either Kelly or Michelle as submissive to their husbands. I think they pay lip-service to it. I think they let the husband make decisions about things they don't care about - which I think involves most things that aren't directly related to family/household life. But I don't for one minute think either of them would actually give in on anything that was really, really important to them. I suspect that times that their husband makes a decision that they disagree with, but isn't really important to them -- they praise him to high heaven. And if they want him to come to a different conclusion, and it matters deeply to them -- they make sure that he does.

At least on television, the two wives come across as much brighter than their husbands, so I think that system works for them without too much hassle. I don't mean that in a derogatory way -- just an observation. If the wives weren't very bright, or their husbands were more domineering, it could go very badly. But that doesn't seem to be the case with these two couples.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

It seems that the Paine's marriage is quite different from the IBLP/ATI norm. I mean, a MAN doing dishes and housework? They seem to have pretty much broken the submission mold, and I think the driving force behind that was Chad. I don't think he wants a submissive wife nor a house full of children if it risks her health. I can see them having 2 maybe 4 kids (way spaced out) and Chad telling Erin, "no more". Their journey with infertility COULD BE the door that leads them out of some of that craziness.

Interesting considering that both of them come from the ATI heavy hitter families...

I would imagine when no other ATI families are visiting that lots of Dads do stuff like that, honestly. If the couple genuinely likes each other--and most folks who are married do. We hear about the awful stuff. Yes there are jerks who won't do anything--there were in the very liberal law firm I worked at! I'm sure when they enjoy "fellowship" with another family everything is by the book--Mom grinds wheat in the Whisper Mill, mixes up bread in the Bosch mixer, the kids all dress alike, Dad acts as though he has no idea what the kitchen is for our what a diaper is. But the rest of the time who knows? I imagine there are honestly wives who make the family business RUN and Dads who do a lot of cooking--they just don't talk about it the way the rest of us do. I know there are ATI families that wear jeans--I've met some. They watch some tv, too. It isn't forbidden, it just must be VERY limited. It's the same with the housework.

[roddma]

But to be glad that a woman has health issues that at best cause very difficult and painful pregnancies, and at worst, could make it impossible to stay pregnant at all, is just needlessly cruel, IMO. It is not wrong to want to have children. It's just wrong to have so many children that you cannot properly care for them. Erin is hardly at that point. She was facing the possibility that she could NEVER have children and was clearly devastated, as many women (even non-fundies) would be

I do agree it is cold to think that. However, as I said these young women have been taught to be only wife/mother.They will never be OK with not having kids. In the secular world, it is easier to accept and come to terms with it. There's nothing wrong with wanting children, but for even more mainstream women it can become an unhealthy obsession. Though the child-free option is breaking ground, we have along way to go before a majority of society see it a valid option.

[Mama Mia]

I do agree it is cold to think that. However, as I said these young women have been taught to be only wife/mother.They will never be OK with not having kids. In the secular world, it is easier to accept and come to terms with it. There's nothing wrong with wanting children, but for even more mainstream women it can become an unhealthy obsession. Though the child-free option is breaking ground, we have along way to go before a majority of society see it a valid option.

I think you're talking about two different things.

One is the societal pressure that is put on fundamentalist women who may or may not want children - but feel they have no value without them.

The other is the issue of whether a woman wants children at all. I don't think those are the same things. I think it is likely much, much easier for women in mainstream culture who don't want children, or are ambivalent, to have acceptance and support for that choice and recognition for their accomplishments. But for women who really, really, really want a baby, and are struggling with miscarriages and/or infertility -- I don't think that they are going to feel any better about the situation because they have other outlets. And I think that even if being child-free by choice was a 100% accepted and respected option in mainstream culture -- being childless would still be very very difficult for women who wanted children and didn't have the choice to have them.

I'm only speaking from projecting my own view. I was certainly encouraged to have a career. On fact NOT working was never really seen as an option. And my issue was with getting pregnant despite efforts not to.....But if I hadn't been able to have children I would have been absolutely, completely devastated. I would have tried every means available. I would definitely have tried to become a parent through foster-adoption - but if that wasn't an option either ? I would have been completely heartbroken. Of course I'd eventually adapt - because you have to adapt to all sorts of crap -- but I would have adapted in ways that the fundies likely do -- by being a very involved auntie or helping out friends with babies.

[roddma]

Of course as said above, when you want something and cant have it is a big let down. But we have to stop and think why we want something. Most of society marries and has kids because it's default. For along time I felt like major fail.Would I have liked kids yes but I opened up my eyes. Dont think I am anti-having kids.Someone needs to have kids. I guess I just want women to stop feeling kids are some requirement to be human.

[eh02]

Of course as said above, when you want something and cant have it is a big let down. But we have to stop and think why we want something. Most of society marries and has kids because it's default. For along time I felt like major fail.Would I have liked kids yes but I opened up my eyes. Dont think I am anti-having kids.Someone needs to have kids. I guess I just want women to stop feeling kids are some requirement to be human.

Wanting children is just as valid a life choice or goal as any other decision you make in your life, whether that's your career, hobbies, or personal goals.

Personally, I don't know if I want kids. But I have other things I want - professional and personal goals. Would my life go in if I, say, never succeeded in the field I am passionate about, and went to graduate school for? Of course. There's more to me than my job.

But I would still be VERY disappointed. And if someone tried to tell me that it was a "blessing in disguise" that I had never "made it" - I'd tell them to shove it!

[sorchah]

Even I, as someone who doesn't particularly want kids, would be offended if someone told me that infertility was a "blessing" for me. Especially if it was from a diagnosed health problem. Maybe I would think it a blessing if I found out I was infertile, but it's not up to anybody else to decide what is and is not a "blessing" in another person's life.

[roddma]

The choice of wanting kids isnt the problem. The problem is when you make it the politically correct choice, the gold standard, the ultimate goal etc.

I am always telling DUggar humpers fertility isnt a sign a deity loves you more. I know childless/infertile people get tired of hearing "God has another plan for you " or point out the story of Hannah. While I may believe life may have other goals for people like myself , I would never tell anyone else that. Im not a really religious person anyway.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Honestly, I don't think ANY of these children will have as many kids as they want to appease other people. All a couple has to say in that community is that God hasnt blessed them with another child (or a child to begin with). Maybe someone will make some comment about how they'll pray for the couple, but probably not. If you're telling people it's "up to God," that's all they care about.

The Bateses and Duggars are completely abnormal, even among their group. I would hazard to guess that many families adopt some kind of BC method at some point (at least to space out the kids) and then just tell people it's up to God. Or that God has blessed them enough and they're treasuring his gifts. Or any number of sayings that could possibly be attributed to why they aren't actively pregnant/nursing.

To say someone's infertility is a saving grace (especially when the person clearly wants children) is cruel and unnecessary.