Pennington Point daughter escapes/ Has no ID's MERGED

[browncoatslytherin]

A lawyer just agreed to help her- she just posted this update on her Facebook "Help Me Prove It" page an hour ago!

yay! hopefully it won't be necessary, but that's awesome!

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Jacob is so high on the koolaid:

Oh yes, these parents seem so committed to letting their children make their own choices. :roll:

I would love to press this guy for more details on what kind of "harmful repercussions" he anticipates. I bet there's some REAL crazy hiding in that statement.

[freshchurnedbutter]

Delurking to say, her brother is truly missing the point. As a new resident of Texas, with a valid DL from another state, I had to show my birth certificate to get my new license. No SS# required. I needed that birth certificate above all. The ladies at our TXDOT are nazi's about getting all the documentation. They had to get a supervisor to approve the card that Oregon issued me in the 1970's. My husband had to order a new birth certificate from his state of birth. There were no exceptions to the rule. We also needed a marriage license, utilities stubs, and proof that our vehicles were registered and insurance up-to date in Texas. Under 25 year olds have to show proof that they have done drivers training. I've been licensed in 4 states and this was the most documentation I have ever had to produce. On the flip-side, I homeschool and I have 0 accountability, no records to file, no one to notify.

I cannot find anywhere that you can get a religious exemption for a birth certificate, either. These people are screwed up, or hiding stuff. I have to put SS# on every tax return as well--for everyone, including dependents. Are they not filing taxes?

I'll go back to lurking now--I've been reading and enjoying or years, and just wanted to share my experience in TX.

P.S. I had a Terri Maxwell book recommended to me at Bible Study last night. (facepalm)

[Grimalkin]

Looks like Lisa is trying to fight the PR war via her other kids. Alecia's sister Patience is posting on the Help Me Prove It Facebook page.

Other people have pointed out that Alecia is not obliged to submit to mediation with her parents just to get what should legally be hers.

Is it in the Old Testament or New Testament about not getting birth certificates?

[Feministe9000]

Now the oldest sister has found her way to the Patheos article by Libby Anne:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... ngton.html

Grace's comment:

Grace • 3 hours ago

I'd just like to remind people that there are always two sides of a story. I am one of Alecia's older sisters, so I know the situation intimately. I'm sure some will write me off as "brainwashed," which is sad, but I know the truth -- that I am a confident twenty-four-year-old woman who can drive, travel, and be as independent as she chooses.

I may not agree with all my parents' views -- I plan to date, I have applied for a job, and am interested in moving out in the bear future. My parents know all these things, and while it wouldn't have been their choice for me, they have let me know that they are aware that we won't all want the same lifestyle they chose, and that's alright with them. People are assuming that it's the fact that my sister left that they have a problem with. No, it's simply the way she has handled it, sneaking behind our backs, lying, and not being honest with us or respectful. I know respect and honor do not mean obedience for an adult, and so do my parents.

Have I had my share of problems with my parents? Of course. No parents are perfect. Those problems were some my fault, and some theirs, just like most relationship problems. We are human. We change and grow. They have been humble enough to admit when they were wrong or misguided, and that's more than I can say for many people. They are good parents, doing their best at the hard job of parenting, which is all anyone can ask.

Will I do things differently as a parent? Sure. But I still appreciate my parents and all they did for me. It has not held me or any of my siblings back from living our dreams and being our own people.

"Again, you're all assuming a lot. I have a drivers license. So does my younger brother. My parents were working with Faith to get hers when they left. She only asked them for help about a week ago, we didn't even know she was working on it before then because she won't talk to us unless she needs something.

My parents are not withholding any documents because /there are no documents to withhold/. They told her they would send her anything we find. My father requested she sit down with them to talk about the affidavit, but when she refused, he said he'd sign the affidavit anyway. But since she already has an affidavit from my grandparents, an additional one won't do any good. They are not trying to hold her back. They want her to have the life she wants, however much her behavior may hurt them.

[Tesseract]

freshchurnedbutter - You nailed it. The SS# is a red herring. The issue is the birth certificate.

So Lisa, did the midwife file something that you didn't read or did you chose not to file birth certificates for religious reasons ? If you are going to lie, at least try to be good at it.

They really think people can't see through them. They just keep making excuses and publicly trashing their daughter. Here is a simple solution. You and your husband, the "loving parents" responsible for making the no BC decision *could* take care of it asap with the appropriate offices and without needing to meet with Faith.Then meet her representative in a neutral public place to hand it over. Problem solved.

[JesusPony]

Grace has Stockholm Syndrome. It seems she has some idea that her parents are lunatics, but it's not really going to hit her until she moves out of the bubble (maybe by the time she's 30?)

Faith has no obligation to "work with her parents". She is an adult and can make her own decisions without consulting them, AKA "being sneaky". WTF. She was born an American citizen and has a right to that identity by birth. I didn't know that an adult making choices without her parents' permission was being sneaky.

And man, the dad is a snake, too!

ETA: It's telling that the only adult child so far that has moved out of the house is now called a liar. Coincidence?

[NurseNell]

Delurking to say, her brother is truly missing the point. As a new resident of Texas, with a valid DL from another state, I had to show my birth certificate to get my new license. No SS# required. I needed that birth certificate above all. The ladies at our TXDOT are nazi's about getting all the documentation. They had to get a supervisor to approve the card that Oregon issued me in the 1970's. My husband had to order a new birth certificate from his state of birth. There were no exceptions to the rule. We also needed a marriage license, utilities stubs, and proof that our vehicles were registered and insurance up-to date in Texas. Under 25 year olds have to show proof that they have done drivers training. I've been licensed in 4 states and this was the most documentation I have ever had to produce. On the flip-side, I homeschool and I have 0 accountability, no records to file, no one to notify.

I cannot find anywhere that you can get a religious exemption for a birth certificate, either. These people are screwed up, or hiding stuff. I have to put SS# on every tax return as well--for everyone, including dependents. Are they not filing taxes?

I'll go back to lurking now--I've been reading and enjoying or years, and just wanted to share my experience in TX.

P.S. I had a Terri Maxwell book recommended to me at Bible Study last night. (facepalm)

My son is in his 30's. He moved to FL. He had a valid MN driver's license but he had to present a birth certificate. He did, it was declined because it is a Michigan amended birth certificate listing his correct birthplace, Bogota, Colombia. They said he needed a Colombian birth certificate. No problem as my kids have both their original birth certificates and their amended ones. They wouldn't accept his Colombian birth certificate because the name was different. He had his expired U.S. passport, they wouldn't accept it. He had his naturalization certificate, they wouldn't accept it. I wrote to the court in MI that handled the adoption, they sent copies of everything on file, with a current notary seal. Nope, not accepted. This all happened over several visits. He finally took in every document he owned at once and said this is what I have, it's all I have and I need a FL driver's license. He finally was referred to someone higher up and that person okayed issuing a license. So I can only imagine what it will be like for Faith, who has no documents of any kind.

[nokidsmom]

Delurking to say, her brother is truly missing the point. As a new resident of Texas, with a valid DL from another state, I had to show my birth certificate to get my new license. No SS# required. I needed that birth certificate above all. The ladies at our TXDOT are nazi's about getting all the documentation. They had to get a supervisor to approve the card that Oregon issued me in the 1970's. My husband had to order a new birth certificate from his state of birth. There were no exceptions to the rule. We also needed a marriage license, utilities stubs, and proof that our vehicles were registered and insurance up-to date in Texas. Under 25 year olds have to show proof that they have done drivers training. I've been licensed in 4 states and this was the most documentation I have ever had to produce. On the flip-side, I homeschool and I have 0 accountability, no records to file, no one to notify.

I cannot find anywhere that you can get a religious exemption for a birth certificate, either. These people are screwed up, or hiding stuff. I have to put SS# on every tax return as well--for everyone, including dependents. Are they not filing taxes?

I'll go back to lurking now--I've been reading and enjoying or years, and just wanted to share my experience in TX.

P.S. I had a Terri Maxwell book recommended to me at Bible Study last night. (facepalm)

To the bolded: this is what is getting me. If they are filing taxes, I can't imagine that they are not claiming dependents especially considering the size of the family because it would seriously lower their tax liability. But I can see them crazy enough not to file or file properly with dependents because ebil guvmint. They are obviously having tax issues.

If they have indeed filed with dependents according to the IRS requirements, meaning with SSNs which means BCs to get the numbers, then they are hiding stuff. According to SSA.gov other documentation can be accepted in certain situations but there still has to be documentation. If there is absolutely nothing as it appears, then either parents are in some serious tax trouble or they paid a lot more money in taxes than they needed to by not claiming dependents for whatever crazy reason. In light of the tax troubles I find the latter of the two highly doubtful.

ETA: Never mind my speculations above. Just read further on this on lunch hour, and according to Yahoo story, Dad's not filed since 1996?! So they are in some serious, serious tax trouble. And Lisa is still buying Magnolia Pearl? :wtf:

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Faiths aunt (James sister, keep in mind they and her maternal grandparents are on her side so that's BOTH sides of her family supporting her) posted this in response to a Lisa fan:

I suspect you are a follower of the same religious faction as my brother, James. There are many in the family besides myself that are supporting Faith. I agree it should never have gone public and it is very embarrassing for us. Your comments are not helping the situation. You are adding to the drama.

[freejingerbeth]

Just read the above post concerning all of the documentation required to get a DL, in Texas.

So, how in the world did the other kids get a driver's license, without a birth certificate? Also, just read the letter from Grace. If her father was willing to sign the affidavit, then why didn't he? Even if the grandparents had already signed one, another one couldn't hurt. He was using the affidavit as leverage, plain and simple. Faith refused to comply, so he refused to sign. Additionally, if Faith's parents really want to help Faith live the life she wants, as Grace claims, why would the father purchase the Internet domain? Sorry, that doesn't add up. Someone is lying. I think the parents fed Grace a story.

Edited because I messed up saving the quotes from the above post and didn't know how to fix it.

[rainbow_vixen]

Do any of the children realize they are contradicting A) Each other's stories B) Their parent's stories and C) Their mother's blog?

If Lisa and James (?) are going to have the kids lie for them they should at least make sure all stories match and that the blog is well scrubbed!!!

[browncoatslytherin]

Do any of the children realize they are contradicting A) Each other's stories B) Their parent's stories and C) Their mother's blog?

If Lisa and James (?) are going to have the kids lie for them they should at least make sure all stories match and that the blog is well scrubbed!!!

honestly, that's pretty typical of manipulative narcissists when something happens that they can't control. they panic. they babble initially to refute it. when the initial babbling isn't enough to be acceptable for an explanation, then they redact, revise, and retcon.

but we have screenshots. :twisted:

http://deletedpenningtonpointposts.blogspot.com/

[Cartmann99]

oh so they're now admitting to knowingly not filing the birth certificates! that's a new one! funny how the kids are coming out and posting and it's CONTRADICTING what the parents are saying and actually giving credence to alecia! lol the kids getting in on the pr war is backfiring in the most unpleasant way for lisa. lol what an idiot.

If Patience wrote the above bolded statement, wouldn't she say "My parents..." instead of "We..."? We implies that either infants had some input on the decision about birth certificates, or one of the parents is posting under her name. :think:

[browncoatslytherin]

If Patience wrote the above bolded statement, wouldn't she say "My parents..." instead of "We..."? We implies that either infants had some input on the decision about birth certificates, or one of the parents is posting under her name. :think:

i noticed that as well, i just didn't post anything about it yet. the way that they all write are almost suspiciously similar.

[DarkAnts]

It's on yahoo news too

http://news.yahoo.com/alecia-pennington ... 12826.html

[browncoatslytherin]

It's on yahoo news too

http://news.yahoo.com/alecia-pennington ... 12826.html

eat crow, lisa! :stir-pot:

[AllisonWndrland]

If Patience wrote the above bolded statement, wouldn't she say "My parents..." instead of "We..."? We implies that either infants had some input on the decision about birth certificates, or one of the parents is posting under her name. :think:

Right, Cartman?? Then there is the bolded sentence in which Patience refers to her own siblings in a really odd way. Wouldn't she have said "our older siblings" or "two of our siblings" or something similar? I think you've gotten it right with the parents posting under the names of the children.

[JesusPony]

eat crow, lisa! :stir-pot:

GOOD. Shame the hell out of these crazies.

The Yahoo!/CSM story credits FJ again!

ETA:

From Yahoo!

Alecia's father, James, is an accountant and a member of the Texas Constitution Party, a known anti-government association. According to a 2007 court document, he has not filed taxes since 1996, and has been contacted by the IRS for evasion. With nine children reportedly undocumented – although three adult children did eventually receive documentation – it further complicates the issue, Mr. Stollar says.

[Cartmann99]

Right, Cartman?? Then there is the bolded sentence in which Patience refers to her own siblings in a really odd way. Wouldn't she have said "our older siblings" or "two of our siblings" or something similar? I think you've gotten it right with the parents posting under the names of the children.

Thanks, for pointing out the sentence about the siblings! That didn't register with me the first time I read it, but it definitely sounds like the words of one of the parents.

[browncoatslytherin]

GOOD. Shame the hell out of these crazies.

The Yahoo!/CSM story credits FJ again!

ETA:

From Yahoo!

i picked up on that tax evasion thing from the yahoo article as well. guess that's why they didn't need to get their kid's ss#'s for tax purposes...cuz they weren't paying taxes?

now, what kind of cpa doesn't pay taxes? for reals, you gotta know the laws and stuff, right??

[Cartmann99]

GOOD. Shame the hell out of these crazies.

The Yahoo!/CSM story credits FJ again!

ETA:

From Yahoo!

An accountant who is in trouble with the IRS? That must do wonders for attracting new clients to his business. :roll:

*slaps head* Oh wait, he's probably considered a hero to the other nutbags.

[browncoatslytherin]

An accountant who is in trouble with the IRS? That must do wonders for attracting new clients to his business. :roll:

*slaps head* Oh wait, he's probably considered a hero to the other nutbags.

actually, the more i think about it, the more that horrifies me. and here's why.

if he's not paying his taxes, obviously he's not claiming his kids and that's why they don't need ss#'s, right?

so, what happens when one of his chidults gets out and goes to file taxes? are they going to be hit by the irs for an audit? are they going to be forced to pay penalties because they've been over 18 for x amount of years and haven't filed and haven't been listed as dependents and can't prove otherwise? that scares me that he is potentially royally screwing up his older kids for the future!

[freshchurnedbutter]

Delurking again. Can't help myself. The Yahoo article says they haven't paid taxes since 1996.

"Alecia's father, James, is an accountant and a member of the Texas Constitution Party, a known anti-government association. According to a 2007 court document, he has not filed taxes since 1996, and has been contacted by the IRS for evasion. With nine children reportedly undocumented – although three adult children did eventually receive documentation – it further complicates the issue, Mr. Stollar says.

As Christians, we are instructed in the Bible to "Render to Caesar what is Caesar's." This was what Jesus said in response to the Jews who didn't like the government they were under. They are so controlling about things that are not in the Bible, like women wearing only skirts, and absolute control of adult kids, and decide not to obey a direct command of Jesus to pay taxes. Seriously???

As a Christian, I am utterly ashamed of their behavior. It casts suspicion upon all of the rest of us who are Christian homeschoolers, who are paying our taxes, giving our kids much harder schoolwork than they would get in a public school so that they can succeed in college if they chose to go and life in general.

I'm going to surmise here, that their choice to refuse their daughter her paperwork that she legally has a right too, regardless if she is a bad kid, good kid, murdererer or thief, is going to come back to bite them in a big way--probably financially. There is so much wrong here, on so many levels.

[BrownieMomma]

i picked up on that tax evasion thing from the yahoo article as well. guess that's why they didn't need to get their kid's ss#'s for tax purposes...cuz they weren't paying taxes?

now, what kind of cpa doesn't pay taxes? for reals, you gotta know the laws and stuff, right??

This is public information from the state's website regarding James C Pennington of Kerrville TX:

https://www.tsbpa.state.tx.us/php/fpl/i ... 0zByrGk%3D

I have always thought that filing a yearly tax return was a requirement to be a CPA in Texas. I cannot quickly find the info on the state board website, it looks like renewal info requires logging in with your licensee information.

To obtain a license in Texas, you must be of good moral standing. Tax evasion likely does not count as good moral standing, but this is not specified on the website. I guess he is also accused, not convicted.

I am sitting for the CPA exams again this year. It's frustrating to not be able to put my finger on this information regarding a requirement to file a tax return in order to keep your license. Maybe that is an Enrolled Agent requirement.

The IRS allows for innocent spouse. Highly unlikely they are going to go after children who were minors. Failure to claim dependents is not a crime, it only hurts the filer. Tax avoidance is okay.

However, if the children come of an age where they are working, they are required to report and pay income tax just like every other American. Now you are talking tax evasion - not okay.