Pennington Point daughter escapes/ Has no ID's MERGED

[DarkAnts]

I have no doubt that a judge is involved. Faith is applying for a legal document stating that she is who she says she is and that she is an American citizen. A judge would be an authority figure that would determine if her documentation is sufficient. It might not require a court proceeding but would still need a judge.

[browncoatslytherin]

Hi! It's on page 53. Under the requirements it says "Note...."

Like you said, it is doubtful Alecia has what she needs to file this thing.

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/field/do ... ndbook.pdf

ah, thank you so much, tessie (can i call you tessie?).

looks like the website brownie found wasn't explicitly helpful as it didn't mention that age requirement for the documents. i guess that pretty much knocks down that argument.

brownie, you may want to view the handbook that she just linked. it lists pretty much what the website does, but in slightly more detail.

eta: i'm not sure why the website wouldn't list the age requirement for the documents and the handbook does. obviously whoever was writing for the website neglected to put that piece of info in there. delightful. i wonder how many people have been misled because of that.

[ladyamylynn]

This is a quote from the yahoo article

http://news.yahoo.com/alecia-pennington ... 12826.html

Uh, what judge?

From the website http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/delayed/default.shtm

She files through the Vital Statistics office. How is a judge involved? The VS office works to verify the documents, and you get multiple opportunities to submit documents.

Yeah... look stuff up for yourself and suddenly the picture starts to look a little different.

Did I miss how a judge is involved here?

And that article is flat out wrong. It says she needs her parents help when she clearly, as you can read for yourself, does not.

I'm calling you out Alecia Pennington.

Oh hai, Lisa!

[Tesseract]

This is the website of Vital Statistics for Texas. It spells out very clearly what to do if you do not have a birth certificate on file.

I think its easy to understand but you have misunderstood Tesseract. Well, there is one confusing point here.

First the formal search. Alecia says they did that, in her youtube vid. If the formal record is found, they send a certified copy. If it is not found, they send forms and instructions for filing a Delayed Certificate of Birth. (Now, maybe VS just sent the letter, did not send forms and did not provide further instructions.)

You file this in Austin along with supporting documentation.

It's going to take a long time. 8-10 weeks.

List of suggested documents.

Link to further instructions for ages 15 and over http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/delayed/15older.shtm

quoted....

It is correct that at least 3 documents are required. However the affidavit signed by parents, grandparents is NOT required, the list of suggested documents says this can show the parents names.

Now I cannot explain how applications for SS, DL or anything should be at least five years old or created within 10 years of birth. Or maybe the record showing the parents name must fall in those guidelines.

The list of documents is suggested, that is right there on the website. I'm sure the grandparents signing an affidavit is the easiest and fastest way to meet the parent names requirement.

I have no idea why applications would be acceptable. I am reading the website. That is the facts, right there for all the world to read and see. It's possible I have misunderstood what is published right there on the Vital Statistics website but it looks like pretty plain language although the bit of how old the documents must be is mystifying.

I would get clarification from VS.

I don't have any problems with Alecia making public statements of how her parents screwed her over. They did, its her story, she can share it with the world. I just have a bit of an issue with lying about it, which to me, makes Alecia no different than her parents.

VS makes it quite plain that Alecia needs nothing from her parents. Also, writing a judge was a complete waste of time. The judge is not VS.

The documents have to be 5 years old or older so that people can't just go get an application and turn it in. We are not reading/interpreting this in the same way. I don't see that Alecia is lying. We'll just have to disagree.

[BrownieMomma]

I have nothing else to offer in this thread. I have posted the same links and same information repeatedly. The correct information is on the Vital Statistics website, unless of course something changed and VS did not update their website. Again, always possible... as it is possible I misunderstood the wording on the VS website. But I don't think I did.

I don't think anyone is really doing Alecia any big favors by blaming and scapegoating her parents instead of just taking care of business. Well maybe, because if Alecia reads my posts she can probably figure out that writing the judge was incorrect, unless she has more updated information in which government bureaucrat functions are now being handled by judges. Which I highly doubt.

Hope Alecia gets her bc and all her other stuff soon, and has a blast applying for a job, buying an airline ticket, opening a bank account, and all the other normal stuff the rest of us take for granted.

No one should have to jump through these hoops as a young adult just to establish oneself as an adult.

[freejingerbeth]

Okay. I tried to copy the image URL, but FJ responded that it wasn't possible to determine the dimensions of the image. So, I'm going to re-type the letter/list Alicia posted, as to what she has done, so far.

Alecia Faith Pennington

DOB: 11/26/95

Background:

We have attempted to obtain a Birth Certificate, a Social Security Card, a Texas Driver's License, and a Voter Registration card. All of these require some verification of identity and citizenship. In order to verify identitiy, typically more than one document is requied. You can use one document to verify citizenship to obtain another. In other words, generally if you get one of them, the other agency considers that the granting agency has performed due diligence in determining your eligibility. Note that Texas Driver's Licenses now require a SS number, as well.

Documents we have:

• Certified letter from Texas Department of State Health Services dated October 1, 2014 stating that after a thorough search, no birth record was found. Agency said they searched the information we gave them for Faith's date and place of birth as well as all unnamed baby girls born around that time period in that county, and all children listted as born to James and Lisa Sublett. In addition, they sent a letter to the midwife that we believe delivered Faith asking her to search her records. After speaking to the midwife, she doesn't seem supportive. She did a brief search and said she couldn't find what we were looking for.
  Letter from Texas Department of State Health Services dated November 5, 2014 to Faith and cc'd Marilyn Lewis, c/o Harris County Probate Court No. 2, Civil Courthouse 201 Caroline, Suite 680, Houston, Texas 77002, 713.368.6710 telling us to apply to the court for issuance of a delayed birth certificate. Ms. Lewis refused to let us before the judge without three (3) documents verifying both her age and citizenship.
  A notarized affidavit from her grandmother swearing to knowledge of Faith's DOB, place of birth and Faith's parents. Note that only one affidavit is permitted as supporting documentation. (verifies identity and age)
  A doctor's statement from the time Faith was around nine years old. (verifies identity and age)
  A biographical statement listing parents, siblings and pertinent information.
  Certificate of Baptism dated June 19, 2005 from Federicksburg Christian Fellowship. (does not list her birthdate)
  Patient information form from Risinger Orthodontics showing her birth date. (verifies identity and age)
  Notarized Name Change document dated November 5, 2014 changing Faith's last name from Sublett to Pennington (verifies identity)

In addition we have:

• Been to Texas Legal Aid but were told it was very low priority relative to their other cases.
  Written Senator Cronyn, Senator Cruz and Representative Carter. Senator Cronyn wrote saing he could not help as it is not a federal matter. Representative Carter's office called to say the same thing. Cruz never responded.
  Called state Representative Marsha Farney. Her office worked on it for about 2 weeks. They took the matter to the Texas Attorney General who said we must get an attorney.
  Tried to obtain Faith's driver's license from DPS. They denied her saying she has proven her identity but not her citizenship, and doesn't meet the SS number requirement.
  Written to her parents (now James and Lisa Pennington requesting an affidavit to her birth facts and attesting to their citizenship. They refused this request.

I don't know about everyone else, but this seems like a lot of trouble to go through, just to shame your parents. Additionally, why would a state representative even bother to work on it, and why would the Attorney General's Office, tell her to get an attorney, if all you have to do, is file some completed applications? Furthermore, Alicia was told by the Texas Department of State Health that she needed 3 documents that verify not only her age, but also her citizenship. Everyone satisfied now, that Alicia isn't just pulling some stunt?

[Palimpsest]

This is a quote from the yahoo article

http://news.yahoo.com/alecia-pennington ... 12826.html

Uh, what judge?

From the website http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/delayed/default.shtm

She files through the Vital Statistics office. How is a judge involved? The VS office works to verify the documents, and you get multiple opportunities to submit documents.

Yeah... look stuff up for yourself and suddenly the picture starts to look a little different.

Did I miss how a judge is involved here?

And that article is flat out wrong. It says she needs her parents help when she clearly, as you can read for yourself, does not.

I'm calling you out Alecia Pennington.

Someone else may have said this already because I haven't read to the end of the thread yet.

Yes, you have missed something. Quite a lot. Watch the video and go to Alecia Faith's Helpmeproveit's Facebook. She lists what she has already done and what she hasn't been able to get. See the bolded?

So don't be so fast to call her out.

Sheesh. Sometimes you try my patience, BrownieMomma.

[Grimalkin]

Regardless of weather or not she needs her parents help, would they not help her? They claim to love and miss her and want reconciliation. I think that would of been a good start. Signing a piece of paper. That's all she asked for. It's not like they would be enabeling her to do things that would harm her by signing it.

It's a good thing this story is big. It may make it easier for the next kid.

[BrownieMomma]

The documents have to be 5 years old or older so that people can't just go get an application and turn it in. We are not reading/interpreting this in the same way. I don't see that Alecia is lying. We'll just have to disagree.

Alecia is lying that she needs her parents or this can't get done. Maybe lying is too strident, maybe she just really does not understand that. Why someone around her hasn't grasped that and informed her doesn't make me feel any better about her supposed support system that seems to be much more focused on creating a shitstorm for the parents than you know... actually helping Alecia move on in life and get herself established.

Well your interpretation may be correct. I am reading from the list of suggested documents and applications are listed. Then, turn the page and there's the gotcha. So I don't know how applications are acceptable if they have to be 5 years or more. That's for the VS to explain.

Look, if there's a baptismal certificate, the church will give Alecia a copy or sign a form unless they are uber-jerks and I don't know if a court could force them to acknowledge Alecia's baptism. If such a record exists. This going to be true of nearly any kind of record in existence - Alecia could get a copy or get a court to subpoena records. Except church records maybe.

I don't get why everyone thinks the parents are withholding. They did not even get a bc. Why would they get other documents?

Anyway, I'm really done on this thread. I appreciate your other interpretation of the same thing I read. You might be right in that hey, here's a list! Go get stuff on the list! BUT it has to be older than 5 years! Well I mean you are right, that is what the website says. I don't get the point of it, why put applications on the list if no one is going to have applications at age 14 for stuff 14yo's don't need? Twisty.

I doubt the Penningtons give two flying frog flips what redditors think or facebookers or youtubers. I would not expect to shame them into giving up whatever docs they might have. Sure hope someone around Alecia is really focusing on helping her rather than staying mired in blaming her parents. Can't even imagine the no-man's land she's living in.

[browncoatslytherin]

I have nothing else to offer in this thread. I have posted the same links and same information repeatedly.

which have been appropriately responded to, with proof, which you do not acknowledge.

The correct information is on the Vital Statistics website, unless of course something changed and VS did not update their website. Again, always possible... as it is possible I misunderstood the wording on the VS website. But I don't think I did.

obviously, the website is lacking in a few vital pieces of information that the handbook instead clearly lays out. not sure who is to blame for that oversight, but it exists. i wouldn't have known where else to look, but tessie obviously found it. i don't think alecia has mentioned this yet, but if she did try to file the vs-22, she would have been appropriately turned down because any documents she has does not meet the age requirement clearly laid out in the handbook.

I don't think anyone is really doing Alecia any big favors by blaming and scapegoating her parents instead of just taking care of business. Well maybe, because if Alecia reads my posts she can probably figure out that writing the judge was incorrect, unless she has more updated information in which government bureaucrat functions are now being handled by judges. Which I highly doubt.

don't forget, alecia is not acting totally alone here. she has relatives who are trying to help her. my best guess is that they are trying anything to help her. obviously if her parents are withholding documents she needs, it would be logical to me to write to a judge to see if something could be done. maybe it wouldn't be logical to you, brownie, but if i was in a desperate situation like that, i would be casting my net as wide as i could to try to resolve the issue.

No one should have to jump through these hoops as a young adult just to establish oneself as an adult.

agreed, it is ridiculous. but it is the way it is. the system can be vicious.

[JesusPony]

They are getting an earful on the Pennington Point Facebook page! Multiple people have asked why they didn't file a birth certificate for Faith 19 years ago and Lisa keeps dodging the question with "we're offering to help her now..."

Heather _____ I wish you people could just be straight with us....WHY DOES YOUR DAUGHTER NOT HAVE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR SSN? I don't quite blame her for being upset and rebelling against this seemingly overly-controlling act of preventing her from becoming independent as a legal adult. She should have had a BC issued oh...19 years ago. Now you play the innocent card. I don't buy it.

Like · Reply · 3 · 3 hrs

The Pennington Point We want her to be independent and have offered many times to help.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

The article says the state found no evidence of a birth certificate. So how did you draw the stunning conclusion the parents are withholding it?

I live in Texas. Over the years I have easily obtained certified copies of my own bc and my children's.

They were properly filed at birth.

Okay, I have no looked on redditt. I have read the yahoo article.

WHAT JUDGE?

You don't file this with a court, you file it with a government agency that then makes the determination about your documents.

idk why applications would be acceptable except to show the person is truthfully pursuing the bc. I really have no clue, but I'm going on what is published on the government website. Now maybe it says somewhere else that the applications have to be filed with the correct agency, but it also very clearly says those are SUGGESTED documents. Not required. My interpretation is the office of Vital Statistics is going to work with the applicant.

Okay... a government agency is not run by a judge. Nowhere have I actually seen where Alecia has gone to court or why she would have to when all she has to do is file a form VS-122 with the office of Vital Statistics.

No parents required.

ofc, logic and reason aren't fun when someone wants very badly to hate on the parents. It's way more fun to lie and say Alecia can't get a BC without some cooperation from her parents, which is very clearly not the case.

Most government agencies hire administrative law judges to carry out proceedings where some sort of decision or judgment needs to be made. It's not criminal court, and hearings may not even take place in a courtroom setting, but an ALJ is a real judge.

Also, the Texas requirements for the delayed certificate vary by age of applicant: http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/delayed/15older.shtm

[freejingerbeth]

Alecia is lying that she needs her parents or this can't get done. Maybe lying is too strident, maybe she just really does not understand that. Why someone around her hasn't grasped that and informed her doesn't make me feel any better about her supposed support system that seems to be much more focused on creating a shitstorm for the parents than you know... actually helping Alecia move on in life and get herself established.

Well your interpretation may be correct. I am reading from the list of suggested documents and applications are listed. Then, turn the page and there's the gotcha. So I don't know how applications are acceptable if they have to be 5 years or more. That's for the VS to explain.

Look, if there's a baptismal certificate, the church will give Alecia a copy or sign a form unless they are uber-jerks and I don't know if a court could force them to acknowledge Alecia's baptism. If such a record exists. This going to be true of nearly any kind of record in existence - Alecia could get a copy or get a court to subpoena records. Except church records maybe.

I don't get why everyone thinks the parents are withholding. They did not even get a bc. Why would they get other documents?

Anyway, I'm really done on this thread. I appreciate your other interpretation of the same thing I read. You might be right in that hey, here's a list! Go get stuff on the list! BUT it has to be older than 5 years! Well I mean you are right, that is what the website says. I don't get the point of it, why put applications on the list if no one is going to have applications at age 14 for stuff 14yo's don't need? Twisty.

I doubt the Penningtons give two flying frog flips what redditors think or facebookers or youtubers. I would not expect to shame them into giving up whatever docs they might have. Sure hope someone around Alecia is really focusing on helping her rather than staying mired in blaming her parents. Can't even imagine the no-man's land she's living in.

I am fast losing patience with you on this subject. Would you please READ the list? She has the baptismal certificate but it doesn't list her birth date, so it isn't sufficient. And, this is no longer just about the parents withholding information. It's about how to get her the documentation she needs.

[Just_Jane]

my friend ended up in red tape this past summer trying to get a passport. she had to jump through hoops to proof that she was Rebecca and Becky. Most of her vital documents said Becky but her bc said Rebecca. she ended up having to make an appointment and take in a whole list of documentation to get her passport. thankfully everyone she needed something from was more than happy to supply it.

[formergothardite]

This thread has pretty much gone exactly like every single thread that involves BrownieMomma disagreeing with other posters. All we are missing is a quote by Eleanor Roosevelt. :lol:

Bless all of the posters who tried to reason with her.

[nelliebelle1197]

Vital documents like what?

You can't get a SS card without a BC.

Do you think the Penningtons have baptismal certs? They have gone a long way to hide their children from the government. I can't imagine the parents even have one of the suggested documents.

And don't forget... it doesn't matter if they withhold it. According to the website, Alecia can get it done without them.

So why not just get it done without them?

What is your problem? Are you just some sort of weird troll? You really just say the most ill-informed, awful things. Saying all she has to do is fill out a form means that you basically didn't read anything but have such an opinion about something you know nothing about that you have to express it. At least Alecia is not black, gay or poor. Those groups fit the Browniemomma trifecta of hate.

[Alye]

Wow this just made the news in Australia.

my friend ended up in red tape this past summer trying to get a passport. she had to jump through hoops to proof that she was Rebecca and Becky. Most of her vital documents said Becky but her bc said Rebecca. she ended up having to make an appointment and take in a whole list of documentation to get her passport. thankfully everyone she needed something from was more than happy to supply it.

Here in Australia, if you were born after a certain date, you now have to prove one of your parents was a citizen/permanent resident to be able to get a passport. My cousin had trouble because her mother is a bitch and wouldn't give her birth certificate and I guess because her parents were never married she couldn't use her father's.

[Palimpsest]

I'd like to take advantage of the brief pause in this rapidly evolving thread to say a hearty

to our delurking members.

We love it when people delurk and your contributions are excellent. Thank you very much and please keep on posting. :D

[Tesseract]

The purpose of documents being 5 years old or older is to establish a history of presence. Given that she was a minor all that time, it makes sense to try to get whatever proof/documents her parents have. That said, I do not see her insisting she needs their help, just trying to figure out how to proceed without it.

Long and short of it all - she may not have adequate documentation. But, if she gets whatever documents she can cobble together in order, files the application and the proof is not sufficient, it then goes to county court to attempt to get a court ordered delayed bc.

There is nothing easy-peasy about this. Her parents really did a number on them.

[nelliebelle1197]

Well that's what I thought. That is exactly what I thought. You don't have anything relevant to the discussion at hand so your only course of action is to attack me on a personal basis.

Laughable. Let me know when you have something to actually contribute here.

You know, there is a whole bunch of us who wonder when YOU will have something relevant to contribute here and anywhere for that matter.

Koala has a record of significant contributions. You have a record of bigoted comments, calling homosexuality a sin and running from discussions when you are called out for your views. I can't really see how you can make such a statement with a straight face.

[formergothardite]

The purpose of documents being 5 years old or older is to establish a history of presence. Given that she was a minor all that time, it makes sense to try to get whatever proof/documents her parents have. That said, I do not see her insisting she needs their help, just trying to figure out how to proceed without it.

Long and short of it all - she may not have adequate documentation. But, if she gets whatever documents she can cobble together in order, files the application and the proof is not sufficient, it then goes to county court to attempt to get a court ordered delayed bc.

There is nothing easy-peasy about this. Her parents really did a number on them.

That is how it seems to me. She isn't saying she needs her parents, just that they might have documents that are five years or older that she needs.

[nelliebelle1197]

This thread has pretty much gone exactly like every single thread that involves BrownieMomma disagreeing with other posters. All we are missing is a quote by Eleanor Roosevelt. :lol:

Bless all of the posters who tried to reason with her.

She hasn't responded to me yet. I usually merit the quote. :lol:

[Tesseract]

One more thing I noticed. Unless another lawyer has contacted her, the one referenced in on twitter is from HSLDA. IMO, she should be very careful about associating with them. They are controversial and usually more about the parents rights to do what want vs. the treatment of kids. Maybe they would be helpful, but who knows.

[freejingerbeth]

I'm terrible with acronyms. What does HSDLA stand for? I remember in some earlier posts, someone mentioned a homeschooling group that tries to help kids/young adults in this predicament. Is it the same one?

[Walking Cat Bed]

One more thing I noticed. Unless another lawyer has contacted her, the one referenced in on twitter is from HSLDA. IMO, she should be very careful about associating with them. They are controversial and usually more about the parents rights to do what want vs. the treatment of kids. Maybe they would be helpful, but who knows.

Yes, exactly. I hope the lawyer Alecia's in contact with is NOT from HSLDA. They're interested in proving that homeschool is the best option for parents, not helping the kids -- regardless of age.