Pennington Point daughter escapes/ Has no ID's MERGED

[BrownieMomma]

The article says the state found no evidence of a birth certificate. So how did you draw the stunning conclusion the parents are withholding it?

I live in Texas. Over the years I have easily obtained certified copies of my own bc and my children's.

They were properly filed at birth.

Okay, I have no looked on redditt. I have read the yahoo article.

WHAT JUDGE?

You don't file this with a court, you file it with a government agency that then makes the determination about your documents.

idk why applications would be acceptable except to show the person is truthfully pursuing the bc. I really have no clue, but I'm going on what is published on the government website. Now maybe it says somewhere else that the applications have to be filed with the correct agency, but it also very clearly says those are SUGGESTED documents. Not required. My interpretation is the office of Vital Statistics is going to work with the applicant.

Okay... a government agency is not run by a judge. Nowhere have I actually seen where Alecia has gone to court or why she would have to when all she has to do is file a form VS-122 with the office of Vital Statistics.

No parents required.

ofc, logic and reason aren't fun when someone wants very badly to hate on the parents. It's way more fun to lie and say Alecia can't get a BC without some cooperation from her parents, which is very clearly not the case.

[browncoatslytherin]

BrownieMomma

I don't think I am understanding you. If the point of having those documents is to help support/provide proof of her identity, what good is a blank application going to do? I'm not being snarky - what am I missing?

I think she is in a catch-22 situation like others have suggested, but maybe I am overlooking something.

I just read your update. Is it possible that the writer of the article got it wrong and not Alecia? I didn't think she put up the video to try to get her parents to help, but rather to find out how to get this done without them.

I guess time will tell.

i think it would be a very good idea, browniemomma, to go and watch alecia's video and read her fb posts and comments and use that and that alone as a source to go off of as far as information goes on what she's done and what she needs. because unfortunately, shitty article writers are out there, and they fuck things up sometimes.

[browncoatslytherin]

The article says the state found no evidence of a birth certificate. So how did you draw the stunning conclusion the parents are withholding it?

i did not say the parents are withholding the BIRTH CERTIFICATE. i said they are withholding vital DOCUMENTS. DOCUMENTS.

just to make sure you don't misread again.

and obviously they DO have documents of some sort because they are needed in order to get licenses, and at least two of her other children have licenses. they must have SOMETHING that they used in lieu of a b/c filed with the state.

[BrownieMomma]

BrownieMomma

I don't think I am understanding you. If the point of having those documents is to help support/provide proof of her identity, what good is a blank application going to do? I'm not being snarky - what am I missing?

I think she is in a catch-22 situation like others have suggested, but maybe I am overlooking something.

I just read your update. Is it possible that the writer of the article got it wrong and not Alecia? I didn't think she put up the video to try to get her parents to help, but rather to find out how to get this done without them.

I guess time will tell.

I truly doubt that Alecia printing off a blank application is acceptable. I am pretty sure she is at least going to have to complete the form and sign it.

She doesn't need a video to find out what to do. It's all spelled out right there on the Vital Stats website. If she can't understand what looks to me like fairly simple language, why not go down to that office or a branch of it and ask someone?

How do you go from not understanding the language on the state website to conducting a media campaign?

And if you don't care if people see your media campaign, why do it at all? Why hit youtube, facebook, and even reddit. I read reddit sometimes, I mean really that's a weird choice for a young girl just out of such a sheltered environment.

So maybe it's not even Alecia's doing. Maybe someone else is just out to wield their hate campaign, maybe the grandparents are superpissed about homeschooling or other choices which the parents told them to mind their own beeswax.

Don't get me wrong. I am not defending the parents in any way. I hope Pennington gets everything coming to him for tax evasion. Hope they get the max penalty for failure to file the bc when Alecia was born.

I'm just saying... everyone wants to hate on the parents so bad they have foregone small things like truth and accuracy... and that's better than Mom and Pop Pennington how?

[Koala]

I'm calling you out Alecia Pennington.

I must be confused. Can you help me here? Do you happen to be the poster who takes her children to a church where children are regularly hit during the service? A church where women do not hold the same privileges as men? And you subject your children to that because you are financially dependent on said church if I recall? Because if you are that poster (and I sincerely apologize if you are not), then I am calling you out BrownieMomma.

Turn about is fair play I guess. Since you felt it was necessary to call out a clearly confused 18 year old. :x

[BrownieMomma]

i did not say the parents are withholding the BIRTH CERTIFICATE. i said they are withholding vital DOCUMENTS. DOCUMENTS.

just to make sure you don't misread again.

and obviously they DO have documents of some sort because they are needed in order to get licenses, and at least two of her other children have licenses. they must have SOMETHING that they used in lieu of a b/c filed with the state.

Vital documents like what?

You can't get a SS card without a BC.

Do you think the Penningtons have baptismal certs? They have gone a long way to hide their children from the government. I can't imagine the parents even have one of the suggested documents.

And don't forget... it doesn't matter if they withhold it. According to the website, Alecia can get it done without them.

So why not just get it done without them?

[browncoatslytherin]

Okay, I have no looked on redditt. I have read the yahoo article.

watch the video and go to alecia's fb page.

WHAT JUDGE?

You don't file this with a court, you file it with a government agency that then makes the determination about your documents.

i already addressed this in my previous post. i think we might have cross-posted.

idk why applications would be acceptable except to show the person is truthfully pursuing the bc. I really have no clue, but I'm going on what is published on the government website. Now maybe it says somewhere else that the applications have to be filed with the correct agency, but it also very clearly says those are SUGGESTED documents. Not required. My interpretation is the office of Vital Statistics is going to work with the applicant.

well, my experience has been that the things printed on gov't websites are not always 100% clear or helpful, even if they appear to be so. i had to go back to a pa dmv THREE TIMES to get my license when i moved over there, because the employees there kept neglecting to mention things to me and i even checked the website and still got it wrong. three freaking trips. i was not a happy camper. but, i finally got it after that wrangling.

No parents required.

ah, but documents they have ARE required. and, going by logic, again, they must have SOMETHING if other kids are getting their license.

ofc, logic and reason aren't fun when someone wants very badly to hate on the parents. It's way more fun to lie and say Alecia can't get a BC without some cooperation from her parents, which is very clearly not the case.

again, read my previous post. read this post. go watch alecia's video and read her fb page posts and comments. you're going off of an article and obviously haven't been following the whole story as it develops. not trying to rag on you for trying to jump in, just saying maybe go to the source and not an article written by someone who has less than third hand knowledge about the situation.

[browncoatslytherin]

Vital documents like what?

You can't get a SS card without a BC.

Do you think the Penningtons have baptismal certs? They have gone a long way to hide their children from the government. I can't imagine the parents even have one of the suggested documents.

And don't forget... it doesn't matter if they withhold it. According to the website, Alecia can get it done without them.

So why not just get it done without them?

why do i keep repeating myself?

they have adult kid drivers. they must have SOMETHING that is both acceptable and also that has not been filed with the state. that is LOGICAL.

and, what exactly do you propose alecia present without help from her parents? as i've beaten like a dead horse, it is highly illogical that she could just print a form and fill it out and have it be sufficient. specifics please, brownie, if you're going to insist that it can be done without her parents, why don't you list specifics that can be done? and don't use the application nonsense because i'm about 99% sure it has to be verified in some way and just printing it off and presenting it is not enough. that does not make sense in any manner, way, shape, or form. period. end of discussion.

[BrownieMomma]

I must be confused. Can you help me here? Do you happen to be the poster who takes her children to a church where children are regularly hit during the service? A church where women do not hold the same privileges as men? And you subject your children to that because you are financially dependent on said church if I recall? Because if you are that poster (and I sincerely apologize if you are not), then I am calling you out BrownieMomma.

Turn about is fair play I guess. Since you felt it was necessary to call out a clearly confused 18 year old. :x

Feel free to explain exactly what it is you think you are calling me out for.

Or.. you just don't like that I can read and comprehend and I'm not jumping on the bandwagon because I can read and comprehend for myself.

[browncoatslytherin]

I read reddit sometimes, I mean really that's a weird choice for a young girl just out of such a sheltered environment.

actually, i suggested she post it to reddit, for more exposure. i can't say for sure she posted it there because of me, but it was posted there after i suggested it after it was made clear that she knows about fj (and likely reads here, i hope).

[browncoatslytherin]

Feel free to explain exactly what it is you think you are calling me out for.

Or.. you just don't like that I can read and comprehend and I'm not jumping on the bandwagon because I can read and comprehend for myself.

lol that's funny, because you have failed to comprehend the vast majority of my posts. :roll:

[Grimalkin]

I truly doubt that Alecia printing off a blank application is acceptable. I am pretty sure she is at least going to have to complete the form and sign it.

She doesn't need a video to find out what to do. It's all spelled out right there on the Vital Stats website. If she can't understand what looks to me like fairly simple language, why not go down to that office or a branch of it and ask someone?

How do you go from not understanding the language on the state website to conducting a media campaign?

And if you don't care if people see your media campaign, why do it at all? Why hit youtube, facebook, and even reddit. I read reddit sometimes, I mean really that's a weird choice for a young girl just out of such a sheltered environment.

So maybe it's not even Alecia's doing. Maybe someone else is just out to wield their hate campaign, maybe the grandparents are superpissed about homeschooling or other choices which the parents told them to mind their own beeswax.

Don't get me wrong. I am not defending the parents in any way. I hope Pennington gets everything coming to him for tax evasion. Hope they get the max penalty for failure to file the bc when Alecia was born.

I'm just saying... everyone wants to hate on the parents so bad they have foregone small things like truth and accuracy... and that's better than Mom and Pop Pennington how?

Alecia did not post it on Reddit another person did it to help her get the word out. Have you read her FB and watched her video and her dad's response? If not please do before you continue to respond.

[Koala]

Feel free to explain exactly what it is you think you are calling me out for.

Or.. you just don't like that I can read and comprehend and I'm not jumping on the bandwagon because I can read and comprehend for myself.

Well let's see...how about shitty parenting? Does that work for you? How about endorsing the abuse with your silence? Does that apply?

You have implied that this kid (who is ridiculously sheltered) was somehow able to foresee this media shit storm and took advantage of an opportunity to shame her parents.

And I am telling you what my grandmother told me- you need to sweep around your own back door before you sweep around someone else's. Particularly an 18 year old who is only asking for what is rightfully hers- her identity.

[browncoatslytherin]

Alecia did not post it on Reddit another person did it to help her get the word out. Have you read her FB and watched her video and her dad's response? If not please do before you continue to respond.

oh please, let her continue her little nonsensical ranting that isn't even based off the source material of the story. please continue to let her make an absolute fool out of herself. i've tried multiple times in this thread to explain various things and she is just insistent on ranting about this and that. :roll: i've personally laid it out about as plain as i can get it without direct quoting any source material. i've also referred her to the video and fb page at least two or three times. if she can't be bothered to actually go to the source, then please let her continue in her nonsense. horse and water and drinking and all, you know.

[Tesseract]

Alecia needs 3 supporting documents, one of which is the affidavit. They give suggestions for acceptable type of documentation. ALL except the affidavit have to be 5 years old or older . They must contain certain information. They give examples of how to get copies of the originals from, for example, an application to an insurance company. I don't see how she has the documentation needed.

[Georgiana]

I have no idea about the legal requirements in her state, but I just want to say:

Name changes for non-standard reasons (adoption, marriage, etc.) are REALLY tricky. It also can be very hard to get these sort of identifying documents outside of the standard way. My friend went through this when he wanted to change is legal name because he no longer wanted to carry the surname of his abusive father, who he cut out of his life.

He HAD all the right documents, followed the correct process as best he could, and STILL ended up stuck in a loop between Social Security office and the DMV. Eventually you end up in a position where the Soc. Security office wont change the name on your card/issue you a new ID because your name doesn't match the name on your drivers license/ID, and the DMV wont make the change because the Soc. Security isn't updated. Also, many of the people you end up dealing with are not used to handling these kind of cases, and so they may not always know the correct answer.

I'm not saying there aren't inconsistencies here. I'm not saying that I fully believe everything I'm hearing. But I DO believe that if there is a non-standard name change involved anywhere or that she has to request something not standard, that she is having a lot of issues.

[BrownieMomma]

I watched the clip. It's 1:28 minutes long. Yes, it's a terrible thing to not have the normal freedoms American citizens enjoy.

However.. she shot herself right in the foot.

It's right there on the VS website. It says to request a bc, if they find it blah blah happens, if they don't find it then file VS-22.

Which Alecia did not do. She wrote a judge.

Does she mean she filed a court case? i don't think she does.

Now she is saying the judge refused her documentation. Of course. What is a judge supposed to do about it?

It says VERY CLEARLY on the website to file VS-22.

Writing a judge does nothing. It should do nothing. The procedure here is file the proper form, and Alecia did not say she filed the correct form with Vital Statistics. She wrote a judge.

So here's my free advice Ms. Pennington. File the form VS-22 with Vital Statistics.

Can't imagine how everyone around you missed it. Sorry you pursued the incorrect course of action, I'm sure someone told you to write a judge.

[browncoatslytherin]

Alecia did not post it on Reddit another person did it to help her get the word out. Have you read her FB and watched her video and her dad's response? If not please do before you continue to respond.

who posted it? i haven't even had a chance to get over there, i assumed as well that she posted it herself. maybe she isn't as media savvy as brownie implies she is.

[BrownieMomma]

Well let's see...how about shitty parenting? Does that work for you? How about endorsing the abuse with your silence? Does that apply?

You have implied that this kid (who is ridiculously sheltered) was somehow able to foresee this media shit storm and took advantage of an opportunity to shame her parents.

And I am telling you what my grandmother told me- you need to sweep around your own back door before you sweep around someone else's. Particularly an 18 year old who is only asking for what is rightfully hers- her identity.

Well that's what I thought. That is exactly what I thought. You don't have anything relevant to the discussion at hand so your only course of action is to attack me on a personal basis.

Laughable. Let me know when you have something to actually contribute here.

[browncoatslytherin]

I watched the clip. It's 1:28 minutes long. Yes, it's a terrible thing to not have the normal freedoms American citizens enjoy.

oh good, you're actually going to the source material now! dare i hope you'll visit the fb page? because the video is the first stop, the fb page is much more detailed in what she has and what she needs.

[browncoatslytherin]

Alecia needs 3 supporting documents, one of which is the affidavit. They give suggestions for acceptable type of documentation. ALL except the affidavit have to be 5 years old or older . They must contain certain information. They give examples of how to get copies of the originals from, for example, an application to an insurance company. I don't see how she has the documentation needed.

is there a link for this? in the original link that brownie provided, it doesn't mention that, but if that is the case then obviously that is a huge requirement that alecia will undoubtedly not be able to meet without parental help.

[Koala]

Well that's what I thought. That is exactly what I thought. You don't have anything relevant to the discussion at hand so your only course of action is to attack me on a personal basis.

Laughable. Let me know when you have something to actually contribute here.

About as laughable as you implying that an 18 year old who has been sheltered beyond imagination somehow foresaw this media circus and seized the opportunity to shame her parents.

And I am telling you straight out- you have a lot of filth around your back door to be "calling out" someone else (particularly an 18 year old) on their's

[nelliebelle1197]

The son James is in for a treat- he cannot file and pay federal taxes without an SSN:

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Internat ... -%28TIN%29

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

A Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) is an identification number used by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in the administration of tax laws. It is issued either by the Social Security Administration (SSA) or by the IRS. A Social Security number (SSN) is issued by the SSA whereas all other TINs are issued by the IRS.

Taxpayer Identification Numbers

Social Security Number "SSN"

Employer Identification Number "EIN"

Individual Taxpayer Identification Number "ITIN"

Taxpayer Identification Number for Pending U.S. Adoptions "ATIN"

Preparer Taxpayer Identification Number "PTIN"

Note: The temporary IRS Numbers previously assigned are no longer valid.

Do I Need One?

A TIN must be furnished on returns, statements, and other tax related documents. For example a number must be furnished:

When filing your tax returns.

When claiming treaty benefits.

A TIN must be on a withholding certificate if the beneficial owner is claiming any of the following:

Tax treaty benefits (other than for income from marketable securities)

Exemption for effectively connected income

Exemption for certain annuities

[Tesseract]

is there a link for this? in the original link that brownie provided, it doesn't mention that, but if that is the case then obviously that is a huge requirement that alecia will undoubtedly not be able to meet without parental help.

Hi! It's on page 53. Under the requirements it says "Note...."

Like you said, it is doubtful Alecia has what she needs to file this thing.

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/field/do ... ndbook.pdf

[BrownieMomma]

Alecia needs 3 supporting documents, one of which is the affidavit. They give suggestions for acceptable type of documentation. ALL except the affidavit have to be 5 years old or older . They must contain certain information. They give examples of how to get copies of the originals from, for example, an application to an insurance company. I don't see how she has the documentation needed.

This is the website of Vital Statistics for Texas. It spells out very clearly what to do if you do not have a birth certificate on file.

I think its easy to understand but you have misunderstood Tesseract. Well, there is one confusing point here.

First the formal search. Alecia says they did that, in her youtube vid. If the formal record is found, they send a certified copy. If it is not found, they send forms and instructions for filing a Delayed Certificate of Birth. (Now, maybe VS just sent the letter, did not send forms and did not provide further instructions.)

You file this in Austin along with supporting documentation.

It's going to take a long time. 8-10 weeks.

List of suggested documents.

Link to further instructions for ages 15 and over http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/delayed/15older.shtm

quoted....

The Delayed Certificate of Birth (VS-122) signed by the individual, if competent and 18 years old or over; otherwise by a parent, legal guardian, or legal representative; and

Three (3) or more documents are required to prove date of birth and place of birth. One of these records must verify parents' names. Any record, other than an affidavit, must be five (5) years old or older. At least one document should have been created within 10 years of birth.

It is correct that at least 3 documents are required. However the affidavit signed by parents, grandparents is NOT required, the list of suggested documents says this can show the parents names.

Now I cannot explain how applications for SS, DL or anything should be at least five years old or created within 10 years of birth. Or maybe the record showing the parents name must fall in those guidelines.

The list of documents is suggested, that is right there on the website. I'm sure the grandparents signing an affidavit is the easiest and fastest way to meet the parent names requirement.

I have no idea why applications would be acceptable. I am reading the website. That is the facts, right there for all the world to read and see. It's possible I have misunderstood what is published right there on the Vital Statistics website but it looks like pretty plain language although the bit of how old the documents must be is mystifying.

I would get clarification from VS.

I don't have any problems with Alecia making public statements of how her parents screwed her over. They did, its her story, she can share it with the world. I just have a bit of an issue with lying about it, which to me, makes Alecia no different than her parents.

VS makes it quite plain that Alecia needs nothing from her parents. Also, writing a judge was a complete waste of time. The judge is not VS.