Joseph Maxwell & Elissa Frost Got Married! - Part 2

[whoviana]

Tit two is my right breast.

[Curious]

From Tit2:

A special thank you to Christopher and his helper for the pictures that you’ll see now and in the wedding day photos.

Further evidence that Stevie reads here....

Hi Stevie, you asshat dickhead

:naughty:

So Christopher had a WOMAN helper :evil-eye:

[lilith]

So Christopher had a WOMAN helper :evil-eye:

If he was as godly as his father he would have refused to work with her and sued whoever suggested he do so.

[Coco]

It is just my opinion, but if I had only two choices, one, to be a sahd forever, sheltered, clothed, looked after OR to have an arranged marriage with a random asshat patriarch my father choose for me to be my husband, AND spend my life being sexually available all the time, squeezing out every kid that comes by or have my stomach cut open every 1,5 years in order to get those kids out of me, THEN nurse, diaper, feed, wash, homeschool, spank/beat, control, biblically train up, brainwash, clean up mess, hair, food, mudstains puke after the ever growing brood and start the day at five something, go to bed around midnight, AND, still be controlled by my domineering father, well, I wouldn't choose the latter. :hand: :snooty:

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I just wish that Sarah could be allowed to see it that way, even in her own thoughts. Instead she's in a culture that sees unmarried women as unworthy or damaged goods, without a special someone to love them, and treated like a child forever.

Break free, Sarah! Be a teacher or a nurse!

Or anything that will let her be a little more independent and give her self-worth, but still be able to be on good terms with her family.

[WonderingInWA]

I think Sarah is just as much responsible for her spinsterhood as her father is. I would guess there have been several men interested in her and she has probably turned them down (or told Stevie she didn't like them). He would bring nothing but the finest to her if he had them, so if he did, I think she probably objected. I just get the feeling she thinks she is every bit royalty like he does, but it's now pushed her into spinsterhood. No one knows if she would ever accept a widower with children, but if she does, I'm guessing it would be under the agreement that she wouldn't have to have sex with him. Sex is evil and she knows that.

[Muriel]

I think Sarah is just as much responsible for her spinsterhood as her father is. I would guess there have been several men interested in her and she has probably turned them down (or told Stevie she didn't like them). He would bring nothing but the finest to her if he had them, so if he did, I think she probably objected. I just get the feeling she thinks she is every bit royalty like he does, but it's now pushed her into spinsterhood. No one knows if she would ever accept a widower with children, but if she does, I'm guessing it would be under the agreement that she wouldn't have to have sex with him. Sex is evil and she knows that.

Maybe she is asexual and since she is coming from such a repressed culture she doesn't have another way to deal with it :cry:

[nelliebelle1197]

Dancing is absolutely forbidden for Southern Baptists, as is drinking. There are no father/daughter dance traditions at all, zero, zip. No alcohol served or even on the premises, as in most SBC will not have the reception at the local country club because alcohol is served there, even if its not being served to the wedding party.

A few years ago I was at an SBC wedding of some young 20yo's. The bride's parents were divorced and she was estranged from her father. He was invited to the wedding, with his wife/girlfriend/whatever and he did not walk his daughter down the aisle, although he did participate in the unity drawing.

This woman was not SBC. She was wearing very high heels with a very short hemline and a plunging neckline. It was uncomfortable just to see her there. At the reception, which was held in the church's fellowship, she tried to get some dancing going with wedding family. It just killed the reception. People were being polite and humoring her, but you gotta realize, these people do not even know HOW to dance. It was so incredibly awkward and the groom's mother quickly saved the day by announcing some activity.

SBC are the largest Protestant, evangelical church in the US. Something like 16 million members. That's a lot of people who are not dancing at their wedding.

You are absolutely wrong. My uncle is a Southern Baptist minister. My family was more liberal Presbyterian (or not much at all, really), but we attended his church out of unity. He was the associate pastor at a giant Florida congregation and our head pastor's daughter was on the dance team at school, skimpy costumes and all. Officially, the SBC takes no position on dancing. A few of the fringy-er closer to IFB churches disallow it, but the majority of mainstream SBC do whatever they want. My uncle is also currently director of a state SBC oversight organization and previously ran adult education for the national SBC, so I kinda get my information from the horse's mouth.

I am glad the one wedding you went to one time makes you an expert.

[Rowan]

The wedding posts were interesting but what caught my attention was the September 16th one - they were going somewhere and had a long delay due to a car accident.

That a lane was blocked off and by the stuff in the road, it looks like it was a bad one. You would think that such Christian people would have some concern or care about the people involved, maybe even pray for them and for the responders that were taking care of them? My immediate family doesn't even believe in God but our thoughts always go to those people when seeing a bad accident or an ambulance or fire truck.....oh wait, it's the Maxwells - we're all going to die anyway, so why care about what happens before that? :?

[treemom]

I have been to tons of SBC weddings where there is dancing. And booze.

[BrownieMomma]

Oh sorry you misunderstood. I have not been to just ONE SBC wedding. I was raised SBC. I lived in different parts of the South while attending SBC churches. I went to Super Summer. I was married in an SBC church, the very one I attended all during high school and the same one my father still attends. I'm now 50 so that's a long-time affiliation with an actual SBC church.

No drinking no dancing is not an official resolution but it is indeed the standard practice. Of all the years experience I have had with SBC this is absolutely the first I have ever heard anyone try to say they attend SBC weddings with drinking and dancing.

When I say people were uncomfortable at this wedding with that woman's behavior, I know what I'm talking about. I've known the parents since before any of our children were born. My son was a homeschool playmate with the groom. The groom was in fact a missionary to Japan while still in college and now he and his wife recently went there again. No dancing, no drinking in any way shape or form.

I don't think that woman intentionally meant to make people uncomfortable. She seemed very young, she was dressed for a nightclub (yep, I've been in those too in my youth), I think she just did not understand that dancing, not even father/daughter dance or bride and groom first dance, are practiced in this subculture.

One of the tenets near and dear to SBC is that the local church is autonomous. Must not have any hint of leadership a la the Papists. In practice, I have encountered many churches, groups, and individuals who call themselves SBC all across the South and they are all basically the same. But, theoretically, there could exist a more moderate church that might allow drinking and dancing and maybe some other things like women pastors or support gay marriage or something but I've never even caught a whiff of such a church. Why stay in the SBC if you don't agree?

There are a LOT of splinter groups who leave the SBC. There was a huge issue in Texas a few years back when the Texas Baptists, I mean the The Baptist General Convention of Texas, voted to not send money to the SBC and instead bankrolled some more moderate seminaries in Texas. And, it's very common for churches to split right in the same community. Generally the "First Baptist" church is an SBC church but Second Baptist or Harvest Baptist or some other name might or might not be an SBC church.

Now I will say, in my personal experience as an SBC congregant, when I was in high school the no dancing thing was strictly enforced. At my particular church in my particular community, which is right outside a major metropolitan area, myself and a few other freshman/sophomore girls were told outright by the youth minister to quit drill team and cheerleading.

In more recent years, I have seen this relaxed and girls from the church are now on drill team and cheerleading, and I've seen some pretty risque outfits on the drill team. Like a skin tight catsuit. The youth minister at my church was my high school classmate and personal friend. He has been the youth minister all these years. I left SBC behind a good ten years or more and I don't care enough to ask him why it is now different. I do know that any wedding at my father's church is not going to have drinking or dancing. That is still very true. And it's true of any SBC I've recently talked but I try to avoid conversations with SBC about church related things.

If FL SBC churches are permitting dancing, especially at church related events like weddings, my thought is that they must be on their way out of the SBC. And then I'm done with thinking about them, because I don't care one way or the other.

[nelliebelle1197]

Your stories always seem to change a lot.

[treemom]

I would say of the Caucasuan baptists in Memphis (and it is our largest sect of Christianity other than catholic) 80% attend SBC churches and of that probably 20-30% consume alcohol and would allow dancing at a wedding.

[treemom]

Those numbers are based on shit I totally pulled out of my ass from living here for 18 years and being married to a born and raised Memphian. And drinking...a lot...with coworkers and friends. Many of which are SBC. And going to a lot of weddings in that late twenty to mid thirty burst of weddings. Approx 50% of the weddings I went to that were held in an SBC church had an open bar and something akin to dancing. Another 25% had a cash bar and the leftover 25% had no booze.

Now I did hang with drinkers, but I probably have been to 5 or 6 weddings a year at SBC churches over the last 15 years.

[nelliebelle1197]

I would say of the Caucasuan baptists in Memphis (and it is our largest sect of Christianity other than catholic) 80% attend SBC churches and of that probably 20-30% consume alcohol and would allow dancing at a wedding.

My old church is still there and still SBC

http://www.sabc.org/

My uncle has performed plenty of SBC marriages with champagne toasts and wine. My aunt actually tried champagne for the first time at one of those weddings a few years back. I guess spending most of his career working at the Nashville Baptist Sunday School or directing adult education for various state conventions makes him not an expert. I will call him later today to confirm. After church.

[treemom]

Part 3 of 'The Day Before' is up, it covers the rehearsal of the ceremony.

Some thoughts:

- The part with the little helicopter. I was thinking, yeah that actually is really cute.

"But he didn't do that on 'the day.'"

Oh... nevermind.

- Sarah, the bow has got to go. You're a grown-ass woman, take ownership of that.

- In the 'Ruthie with Friends' pic, the little boy in the blue plaid shirt looking at the camera looks like the same one from the ice cream party post making the cute scrunchie face. They must be very good friends of the Maxwells :shrug:

EDIT: added a hyphen where it was desperately needed

And the women is wearing the head bow. I wonder if she gave Sarah the idea or if Sarah gave her the idea.

[treemom]

My old church is still there and still SBC

http://www.sabc.org/

I have always heard the no drinking no dancing but in my experience that wasn't connected with SBC overall. The SBC did a lot of weird changing through during the civil rights era and the 80's becoming far more conservative. I tend to think of it as an urban myth that dancing and booze are verboten. Maybe not encouraged and side eyed by a lot of people, but def. not verboten.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

For those particular churches that DO utterly ban dancing, is there some specific Bible reference they use to justify it? Or is it just a cultural "it's too close of contact for us" thing? Is dancing alone to music okay?

I also wonder if the woman with the camera we saw in some pictures is Christopher's helper. If so, is it a long working relationship, or just another photographer that happened to help out at this particular wedding (either hired, or a family member from the other side who similarly has a home photography business) or?

[Arete]

As far as I know, dancing is banned in certain churches because it is thought to "stir up unrighteous passions", ie you could start thinking about sex with all that swaying and contact. There are numerous references to dancing in the Bible that are quite positive.

I guess if they really wanted to push it they could use the story of Salome dancing for her step father Herod Antipas and then demanding the head of John the Baptist as a reward.

[nelliebelle1197]

I have always heard the no drinking no dancing but in my experience that wasn't connected with SBC overall. The SBC did a lot of weird changing through during the civil rights era and the 80's becoming far more conservative. I tend to think of it as an urban myth that dancing and booze are verboten. Maybe not encouraged and side eyed by a lot of people, but def. not verboten.

It's IFB, not SBC, churches that come down hard on that stuff.

[PearlKrabs]

And the women is wearing the head bow. I wonder if she gave Sarah the idea or if Sarah gave her the idea.

I didn't even see that. Maybe in her limited social circle Sarah is right on trend.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Dancing is absolutely forbidden for Southern Baptists, as is drinking. There are no father/daughter dance traditions at all, zero, zip. No alcohol served or even on the premises, as in most SBC will not have the reception at the local country club because alcohol is served there, even if its not being served to the wedding party.

A few years ago I was at an SBC wedding of some young 20yo's. The bride's parents were divorced and she was estranged from her father. He was invited to the wedding, with his wife/girlfriend/whatever and he did not walk his daughter down the aisle, although he did participate in the unity drawing.

This woman was not SBC. She was wearing very high heels with a very short hemline and a plunging neckline. It was uncomfortable just to see her there. At the reception, which was held in the church's fellowship, she tried to get some dancing going with wedding family. It just killed the reception. People were being polite and humoring her, but you gotta realize, these people do not even know HOW to dance. It was so incredibly awkward and the groom's mother quickly saved the day by announcing some activity.

SBC are the largest Protestant, evangelical church in the US. Something like 16 million members. That's a lot of people who are not dancing at their wedding.

My sister got married at the SBC church her hubby's father attended at the time. The pastor was pretty cool and laid back, but much of the congregation was not. (The pastor ended up leaving this church for that very reason.) The church isn't quite megachurch size, but it's pretty big and from what I understand they have a hall that would have been suitable for my sister's wedding. But they had a no dancing, no booze policy. Neither my family or Sis's hubby's family are big drinkers, but they wanted to have champagne. They also wanted a deejay and dancing. So the reception was held at a hall down the street.

[16strong]

I haven't been to any SBC weddings with alcohol, but every single one I have been to has had dancing. I don't doubt that some of the more rural, conservative ones forgo dancing, but I have not been to one of those.

[kpmom]

The helicopter joke was cute. Leave it to John, the Maxwell who appears to actually have a sense of humor, to do it.

I noticed when Sarah talked about the families working out the details of the wedding she mentioned the dads, nothing about the moms.

Do women have any importance at all in this lifestyle? Never mind, I know the answer, unfortunately.

[artdecades]

Does the Maxwell family not kiss at weddings? There is no picture of the kiss, which is just odd to me. I am wondering if they consider kissing in public some sort of unrighteous behavior like dancing, or if they don't believe in photographing such PDA. I would not be surprised with this family, I just think its weird to not see a kiss picture, especially when so many fundies are ALL ABOUT the the first kiss.

[WonderingInWA]

Does the Maxwell family not kiss at weddings? There is no picture of the kiss, which is just odd to me. I am wondering if they consider kissing in public some sort of unrighteous behavior like dancing, or if they don't believe in photographing such PDA. I would not be surprised with this family, I just think its weird to not see a kiss picture, especially when so many fundies are ALL ABOUT the the first kiss.

I would guess they just believe it is very private. I agree, as much as I love a good BAD first kiss photo, I think it's nice they give the couple a little internet privacy if they want it. Those first kisses are so SO awkward most of the time.

ETA: In fact, in the wedding of Phillip Bradrick and Katie Valenti, he actually pulled her veil off during the kiss. They tried to cover it up and get it relodged, but it was on a comb on the back of her head. I think I must have seen it in the video and it might not be as obvious in the photos (taken by Christopher Maxwell). Note to groom: If you're going to grab her, do it UNDER her veil, you dumb ass.