Joseph Maxwell is MARRIED!!!

[Coco]

I still find the 1975 film pretty darned scary.

[bBvideo 560,340:2n8sta8q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpzjoDNztKE[/bBvideo]

Wow, that was... creepy. Not to get all deep and dark, but some fundies would say that had a happy ending. And their wives would agree. Her submissive self killed her rebellious, independent self. Yay. The man was happy in the end. She became his ideal.

Here are some verses that fundies would twist into this ugly Stepford ideal:

"Those who belong to Christ (since the fundie husband is like "Christ" to the wife on earth) have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires (individuality in the woman apart from her husband)". Gal. 5:24

"My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me (the husband's ideas over the wife's in the smallest things). So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me (just by marrying her he gave enough of himself to gain her forever obedience)." Gal. 2:20

"For me to live is Christ (the wife's entire life is wrapped up in her father or hubby) and to die (to her individuality) is gain (for him, and thus her)" Phil. 1:21

I die daily. 1 Cor. 15:31

-------

i have seen that blank Stepford look on fundie women in real life. When asked about anything not considered "womanly" (politics, reasons behind things) they have no individual thoughts. It simply doesn't register. Especially in generational fundies. There's nothing there, beyond the approved womanly ideas. It takes a STRONG woman to break out of those mental bonds, when she's been raised from birth in that culture, with ancestors who believed the woman was below man and created to be a helper to the men. (i was already 16 when my parents decided to change to the fundie life, from regular Evangelical Pentecostal Christian belief, so it was easier for me to walk away.) Generational fundies believe women must be told what to think because woman made the mistake of causing the original sin in her evil rebellious individual quest for knowledge and to "be like God" Genesis 3. They believe that ALL women are easily decieved, thus women cannot be trusted to discern. Usually the ones who are strong enough to break free are the ones who've been disappointed or left out. The girls who didn't get the supports (chains?) they needed - in an overbearing father and then a husband to whom they could give all control -- and broke free, before they became totally robbed of individuality. Even the unmarried schoolteachers and the older women, who you'd think would have opinions, have given over their ideas to the party line, because every tiny thing in fundie land has an answer. Every part of life has a Right Way to Be Done. A woman can completely give over every individual thought to the control and preferences of her headship. A woman like that is considered very godly and very holy. Fundies have their own school books, their own fiction, their own stores (in areas where there are a lot of ultra-conservatives they have their own bulk stores. There's also GVS ponderyourpath.blogspot.com/2011/01/gvs-mail-order-tradition.html for the ones who live in isolated areas). They live a peaceful law-abiding life, but it's a life in a sheltered bubble. Stepford life. :lol: And faced with anything that may cause them to doubt, they will shield their eyes like the Maxwells at the Creation Museum or quote scriptures to keep from having ungodly unapproved individual thoughts crop up. "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God (that is, what the hubby wants us to know as the knowledge of God), and take every thought captive to obey Christ,(to obey the fathers or hubbies, who are our earthly examples of Christ) 2 Cor. 10:5

I'm not saying that's what all Christians believe, just trying to show how fundies twist verses to make them say what they want verses to say. This is just how fundies will preach these verses, to keep the women submissive and the men in leadership. For an average Christian these verses would just mean that Christ, as the love of God incarnate, was making the Christian more like the Spirit of God. "You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself." If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.." Gal. 5:13-26 In that context it makes more sense because 'crucifying the flesh' actually means anything that's not the fruit of the spirit. Nothing to do with being a man or a woman.

But the fundie version -- this is probably the type of teaching Elissa and Sarah and the others are hearing over and over.

TL:DR Fundies could be renamed Stepfords and they'd be proud of it.

sorry for the wall o'text - therapy session for me, writing it out. :)

[nokidsmom]

And it doesn't really even answer the question! The Maxwells are going to be on the road for several weeks, can't imagine Joseph and Elissa will be on their honeymoon that entire time. Will they go home afterwards, or join "the rest" at some point?

My money is that they will join the family cult at some point to participate in what some might call a conference the dog and pony show as a prime example of how courtship finally works.

[goldbu]

So does this mean Joseph is out of the family band except for special occasions? If they keep marrying off children they're going to have to rebrand their music. I'm working my way through reading the entire Maxwell blog and I'm only at the end of 2011. (I have a baby that's up a lot at night to nurse...) Is Sarah not in the band? Will it just be a quartet now?

[nelliebelle1197]

Steve probably gave them a schedule for their honeymoon.

"Wake up Elissa, 5am is Bible time, and after that 7am til 7:15 is sex time, and then we have to clean the hotel room"

You really are giving Joseph a lot of credit there, aren't you :roll:

[nelliebelle1197]

So does this mean Joseph is out of the family band except for special occasions? If they keep marrying off children they're going to have to rebrand their music. I'm working my way through reading the entire Maxwell blog and I'm only at the end of 2011. (I have a baby that's up a lot at night to nurse...) Is Sarah not in the band? Will it just be a quartet now?

Sarah awkwardly hold a guitar in the background sometimes.

[MamaJunebug]

Wow, that was... creepy. Not to get all deep and dark, but some fundies would say that had a happy ending. And their wives would agree. Her submissive self killed her rebellious, independent self. Yay. The man was happy in the end. She became his ideal.

Here are some verses that fundies would twist into this ugly Stepford ideal:

"Those who belong to Christ (since the fundie husband is like "Christ" to the wife on earth) have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires (individuality in the woman apart from her husband)". Gal. 5:24

"My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me (the husband's ideas over the wife's in the smallest things). So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me (just by marrying her he gave enough of himself to gain her forever obedience)." Gal. 2:20

"For me to live is Christ (the wife's entire life is wrapped up in her father or hubby) and to die (to her individuality) is gain (for him, and thus her)" Phil. 1:21

I die daily. 1 Cor. 15:31

-------

i have seen that blank Stepford look on fundie women in real life. When asked about anything not considered "womanly" (politics, reasons behind things) they have no individual thoughts. It simply doesn't register. Especially in generational fundies. There's nothing there, beyond the approved womanly ideas. It takes a STRONG woman to break out of those mental bonds, when she's been raised from birth in that culture, with ancestors who believed the woman was below man and created to be a helper to the men. (i was 16 when my parents went fully into fundie beliefs, from regular Evangelical Pentecostal Christian belief, so it was easier for me to walk away.) Generational fundies believe women must be told what to think because woman made the mistake of causing the original sin in her evil rebellious individual quest for knowledge and to "be like God" Genesis 3. They believe that ALL women are easily decieved, thus women cannot be trusted to discern. Usually the ones who are strong enough to break free are the ones who've been disappointed or left out. The girls who didn't get the supports (chains?) they needed - in an overbearing father and then a husband to whom they could give all control -- and broke free, before they became totally robbed of individuality. Even the unmarried schoolteachers and the older women, who you'd think would have opinions, have given over their ideas to the party line, because every tiny thing in fundie land has an answer. Every part of life has a Right Way to Be Done. A woman can completely give over every individual thought to the control and preferences of her headship. A woman like that is considered very godly and very holy. Fundies have their own school books, their own fiction, their own stores (in areas where there are a lot of ultra-conservatives they have their own bulk stores. There's also GVS ponderyourpath.blogspot.com/2011/01/gvs-mail-order-tradition.html for the ones who live in isolated areas). They live a peaceful law-abiding life, but it's a life in a sheltered bubble. Stepford life. :lol: And faced with anything that may cause them to doubt, they will shield their eyes like the Maxwells at the Creation Museum or quote scriptures to keep from having ungodly unapproved individual thoughts crop up. "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God (that is, what the hubby wants us to know as the knowledge of God), and take every thought captive to obey Christ,(to obey the fathers or hubbies, who are our earthly examples of Christ) 2 Cor. 10:5

I'm not saying that's what all Christians believe, just trying to show how fundies twist verses to make them say what they want verses to say. This is just how fundies will preach these verses, to keep the women submissive and the men in leadership. For an average Christian these verses would just mean that Christ, as the love of God incarnate, was making the Christian more like the Spirit of God. "You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself." If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.." Gal. 5:13-26 In that context it makes more sense because 'crucifying the flesh' actually means anything that's not the fruit of the spirit. Nothing to do with being a man or a woman.

But the fundie version -- this is probably the type of teaching Elissa and Sarah and the others are hearing over and over.

TL:DR Fundies could be renamed Stepfords and they'd be proud of it.

sorry for the wall o'text - therapy session for me, writing it out. :)

No apologies needed, esp not for this Christian!

Thank you for a great exposition.

I'm in need of what some would call a clean break from the depression-worsening gloom-pit that the Maxwells exemplify so stunningly.

Carry on, all! I'll see you when times get better. (And they will.) XXOO

[WonderingInWA]

Sarah awkwardly hold a guitar in the background sometimes.

Sarah has said she isn't gifted at music. I believe she has even said that's why she writes. So, if she's that bad at writing, I can only imagine how bad she is at music.

[church_of_dog]

Sarah has now clarified in the comments that no, the newlyweds won't be joining the next tour. She also confirmed that when they went to visit "friends" just before some ministry tour, that they actually went to see Elissa (and her family, presumably). Does anyone remember how long ago that tour was or where to find it on the blog?

Also, if Elissa's family is indeed from South or Central America, then I suppose it is possible they've gone there for a longer-than-usual honeymoon...

[thoughtful]

Wow, that was... creepy. Not to get all deep and dark, but some fundies would say that had a happy ending. And their wives would agree. Her submissive self killed her rebellious, independent self. Yay. The man was happy in the end. She became his ideal.

Yep -- other than the trick of using God to explain it all faith-based part, a Stepford Wife is pretty much what a lot of the fundie men are going for.

I recommend the film to any FJers who have never seen it. The sci-fi explanation comes very late in the story -- most of the film is a look at men who want a wife like that, and how terrifying that is. It's mostly a psychological thriller, and touches on a lot of things we discuss here.

[Mama Mia]

There's a comment from Elissa, in Spanish, on the blog back when they went to Colorado in August 2013.

If her last name starts with Fr, and it's a Hispanic last name, the best bets are Frias -- or possibly Francisco or Franco....it's not a common starting set of letters, so maybe she has an Anglo last name?

[Palimpsest]

I emailed with Laura shortly after Elizabeth and Joseph's marriage was called off. I didn't ask for details as to what happened, but Laura certainly seemed happy that her daughter didn't marry him. Whatever the issue was, Liz seems to have had her parents' full support in calling it off.

Interesting. I've wondered whether it was the way Steve was hustling Joseph and Elizabeth into the marriage that squicked the whole Munck family out.

I hope Elissa was given more time to get to know Joseph. I speculate that the engagement happened in April because that was when the domain was registered. So a six month engagement.

In contrast here is the Joe/Liz timeline.

2008 - Pants wearing 16 year old Liz and family attend their first Maxwell conference. Begin to get sucked into Maxhell.

October 2011 - The Maxwell girls spend time talking to Liz and her sisters at a conference. Joseph may have seen her from a distance.

April 2012 - Steve gets the 2 families together to fellowship with each other in the LORD. Face to face meeting #1.

April - end of May - Joseph prays about marriage to Liz. Joseph, Steve and Teri pray and fast. Joseph approaches Mr. Munck. More praying. Elizabeth gets notified. Joseph visit Muncks. Face to face meeting with Liz #2. Courtship.

Mid June - Face to face meeting #3 for courting couple.

End of June - Families meet up again. Engagement. No-touch relationship. Much more prayer. Wedding set for August 18th.

August 10 - Liz panics 2 hours before her wedding shower. Wedding off. Muncks relieved. Maxwells issue statement that it was all Liz's fault then wipe their blog.

Even for Fundies, a six week engagement after four whole in-person meetings and a one month courtship is fairly break neck speed!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Holy Moley! Way-to-go-Joe!!! Hope she doesn't mind living in a house intended for a different bride! She looks several years older than Joseph..... So two Maxwell guys have had 2 failed courtships. You gotta think its the "closeness" (i.e. Steve's control) that did it in. Maybe this one only got to see the family on her own family's turf? I'm so happy though for Joseph that he gets to leave the house!!!!!!!

[WonderingInWA]

Holy Moley! Way-to-go-Joe!!! Hope she doesn't mind living in a house intended for a different bride! She looks several years older than Joseph..... So two Maxwell guys have had 2 failed courtships. You gotta think its the "closeness" (i.e. Steve's control) that did it in. Maybe this one only got to see the family on her own family's turf? I'm so happy though for Joseph that he gets to leave the house!!!!!!!

Yep, he gets to move in to the Beige Palace finally! And he gets to have sex! Wahoo! She is pretty and looks a lot more comfortable (i.e. less afraid) in the wedding photo than NR-Anna did on her wedding day, so hopefully they have had a chance to get to know one another better than he and Liz did and that she is actually marrying him because she likes him, ugly Maxwell compound warts and all.

[singsingsing]

Isn't Joseph about 25? She looks around the same age to me.

[TrueRebel1]

Isn't Joseph about 25? She looks around the same age to me.

I was just going to ask how old Joseph is, because to me his new wife looks older than him. Of course, maybe she just appears older because she isn't wearing the typical amount of makeup, etc.

[nausicaa]

There's a comment from Elissa, in Spanish, on the blog back when they went to Colorado in August 2013.

If her last name starts with Fr, and it's a Hispanic last name, the best bets are Frias -- or possibly Francisco or Franco....it's not a common starting set of letters, so maybe she has an Anglo last name?

I may or may not have been searching facebook last night for girls named "Elissa Fr?" in the offchance I could be the FJ hero who dug up info on her, but no deal. The only Hispanic "Fr" last names I could find were Freis, Franco, Franchez. Freitas, and Fretes. If she's from certain parts of South America though, she could have a German last name, which would give a lot more options.

If she is Hispanic, does anyone else wonder how the super mayonnaise and Wonder Bread whiteness of the Maxwell girls will deal with anyone as "foreign" as a bilingual young woman originally from a majority Catholic, most likely developing country? I'm sure the woman speaks English just fine and is well adapted to American culture, but this is the Maxwells we are talking about here. Who wants to take bets on how long before a dismissive/offensive comment about her native culture is made in the blog? How many condescending quotations marks will be used? Will Catholic relatives be coming to visit? Will Steve get man on man besitos? And how on earth will those brown-mush bean burritos go over?

Oh my God, I am more excited for this than a new season of my favorite show.

[ncb]

I think with Chris and NR Anna's fertility they will someday switch houses again with Steve and Terri (Chris and NR Anna life in the old Maxhell Mother Ship) rather than move to a new larger home. At a certain point Chris and NR Anna's brood will outnumber "the rest" and the house swap will allow Chris and NR Anna to move someplace bigger and still remain mortgage-free. I also agree that the next Maxwell male to marry will take GiGi's house and GiGi will move in with "the rest". So grim.

[Jessica]

Well, I tried. I left a comment under another name asking (politely!) where she is from. The comment is there but they erased everything other than "Congratulations!" Okay. I don't see what's wrong about asking that. They are so freaking weird!!!

[Lillybee]

I am so pathetic because I keep on checking on the Maxwell blog for updates.

[clese]

Lillybee I'll take your patheticness and raise you one! I maybe obsessed. Its been great maxhell was getting dull but now helltv brings you the latest. Season of Submissive housewives. This season just who is the mystery hell meet? Is poor Sarah secretly courting? Is this the season that john the stud makes a run for it? Stay tuned... 8-)

[Kylolo]

This is my first post. Long time reader but have been waiting for approval since Saturday night to say:

I FOUND HER! I am fairly certain anyway.

Now tell me what I can post here without violating anything.

[singsingsing]

This is my first post. Long time reader but have been waiting for approval since Saturday night to say:

I FOUND HER! I am fairly certain anyway.

Now tell me what I can post here without violating anything.

I'm not a mod but I'm pretty sure anything public is fair game. If you've somehow found private information, like you're seeing a friends only Facebook page or a locked blog or something like that, don't post it... but if it's public information, it's fine.

[ViolaSebastian]

This is my first post. Long time reader but have been waiting for approval since Saturday night to say:

I FOUND HER! I am fairly certain anyway.

Now tell me what I can post here without violating anything.

If it's a public site, you can post it. However, if it's a private thing (like a private twitter or facebook) you can't.

[ILoveJellybeans]

You really are giving Joseph a lot of credit there, aren't you :roll:

15 minutes includes the crying and praying afterwards from Joe because he still feels guilty about not having his purity and doing something that is sooooo dirty and evil :P

[kpmom]

I'm not a mod but I'm pretty sure anything public is fair game. If you've somehow found private information, like you're seeing a friends only Facebook page or a locked blog or something like that, don't post it... but if it's public information, it's fine.

I think private info. can be paraphrased though, right?