Sparkling Adventures in Child Neglect - "Gayby" on Board

[FJismyheadship]

So in this facebook group I am in, a mother posts a picture of herself with dreads, says she knows it is seen as the crunchier thing to do. She is in love with them, and wants to see other mothers dreads.

Why are dreads seen as crunchier?

It made me think of Lauren and her authenticity.

[Mango]

Why are dreads seen as crunchier?

Well, people tend to not wash them very often....

[Blahblah]

Well, people tend to not wash them very often....

It's just a counter-culture attitude. You don't see many lawyers, judges, police officers, nurses etc wearing dreads. People who do not have to put up a respectable image in mainstream society can get about with homespun clothes, bare feet, dreads, nose-rings etc.

With Lauren she has taken them on as a uniform. In her logic, she has swapped the shackles of "normal" society for the freedom of counterculture. In reality she has imposed so many rules on herself and the girls (vegetarian, dreads, only wear red, scavenge when possible, identify with Rainbow culture) that she's just swapped one uniform for another.

[Paperplate]

Our discussion of the Alice stuff starts around here: viewtopic.php?f=259&t=18273&start=740#p620679 and continues into the next thread. She's by no means the only topic of conversation, but this discussion covers Lauren's trip to Iceland to meet the Gold Stars the first time.

Thanks for that. Interesting and rather horrifying.

[halcionne]

Disclaimer: I live in France and I am not just saying this to be a jerk. BUT, there are a LOT of Roma in France, and there are roving gangs of 'em that track tourists/foreigners and ripping them off is their full time job. Sad but so true. And to the poster that said that this is especially true at gas stations on the motorways this is absolutely correct.

This statement is problematic, and I'm surprised no other FJer has mentioned that in the what, five days? since you made it. Roma are more than a gang of thieves, and there are gangs of thieves aren't just Roma, I'm sure. If an American on here had said that about black people or Latinos, somebody would've called them out on it immediately.

[Annasopinion]

This statement is problematic, and I'm surprised no other FJer has mentioned that in the what, five days? since you made it. Roma are more than a gang of thieves, and there are gangs of thieves aren't just Roma, I'm sure. If an American on here had said that about black people or Latinos, somebody would've called them out on it immediately.

Roma are real trouble in some parts of Europe. Additionally, Gypsies are a real problem in some parts of Europe and many of them ARE full time gangs of thieves, and this is the problem. Sure, some of them aren't Roma but you'll find that media and 'official' status holders like the police refer and list them as Roma and Gypsies, so this commentator didn't do or say anything wrong as far as I can see.

I have lived and worked in Vienna and London and in Vienna they even warn you that there are Roma hanging around Pratersen. Except then they had to go 'PC' so they started calling them 'pickpockets'. This is over the announcement speaker announcing the station before you get off the train. Things are different in parts of Europe where Gypsies are - people are more realistic about the trouble and crime increase that correlates with their presence. Villages often try to run them out because they cause so much trouble. There's less of a need to hide/sanitise/distort the facts to protect the 'reputation' of this largely roaming thieving minority. You might be offended, but that doesn't mean referring to Roma or Gypsies as thieves actually is offensive. And you might feel differently if 10 of them crowded your car at the petrol station because they wanted to ROB YOU.

For her childrens sake, I really hope Lauren doesn't hitch up with any of them. Shudders.

[Marianne]

This statement is problematic, and I'm surprised no other FJer has mentioned that in the what, five days? since you made it. Roma are more than a gang of thieves, and there are gangs of thieves aren't just Roma, I'm sure. If an American on here had said that about black people or Latinos, somebody would've called them out on it immediately.

I'll make huge generalizations , sorry.

But to summarize, in the word " Roma " (french) we put two things :

* what you call gypsies, who have their specific lifestyle and culture, can sometimes be a problem, but not a lot, it's ones you see in Lourdes on August 15, for example

*And recent immigrants, who are exploited by a sort of mafia, which forces them to steal, prostitute themselves for girls ... As said Shankbiscuits, it's sad but true.

[skankbiscuit]

This statement is problematic, and I'm surprised no other FJer has mentioned that in the what, five days? since you made it. Roma are more than a gang of thieves, and there are gangs of thieves aren't just Roma, I'm sure. If an American on here had said that about black people or Latinos, somebody would've called them out on it immediately.

I am American by nationality, currently living in France. I don't think there is a group in the United States that as a culture, makes their living off of property crime and begging. Roma in France are wary of the government, do not speak French for the most part, and can't send their kids to school because they have no rights here. In the United States, you can be "illegal" and still enroll in public school. Because Romas have no legal standing in France, they build shanty towns outside of large cities (many of which have been torn down by order of the government, citing the camps are unsanitary and dangerous). I have rarely seen any other groups besides Roma panhandling and scamming tourists in the big cities. I just read an interview done with a Roma family, and they said that rather than go back to eastern Europe where there are no jobs, even if they make 10-20 euro a day by begging, it's enough to feed their kids. The children get wrapped up in the criminal lifestyle, because none of them attend public school. So what you end up with is an entire group of people who are living on the fringes of society and the kids are growing up being criminals. They can't be a part of French society, because they aren't here legally and they don't have any rights here. As a culture, they are anti government and do not want to assimilate into the French culture as well. So there you have it. Sad but true, as Marianne said. There is a time to be PC, but this is just a fact of how things are here.

[August]

Roma are real trouble in some parts of Europe. Additionally, Gypsies are a real problem in some parts of Europe and many of them ARE full time gangs of thieves, and this is the problem. Sure, some of them aren't Roma but you'll find that media and 'official' status holders like the police refer and list them as Roma and Gypsies, so this commentator didn't do or say anything wrong as far as I can see.

I have lived and worked in Vienna and London and in Vienna they even warn you that there are Roma hanging around Pratersen. Except then they had to go 'PC' so they started calling them 'pickpockets'. This is over the announcement speaker announcing the station before you get off the train. Things are different in parts of Europe where Gypsies are - people are more realistic about the trouble and crime increase that correlates with their presence. Villages often try to run them out because they cause so much trouble. There's less of a need to hide/sanitise/distort the facts to protect the 'reputation' of this largely roaming thieving minority. You might be offended, but that doesn't mean referring to Roma or Gypsies as thieves actually is offensive. And you might feel differently if 10 of them crowded your car at the petrol station because they wanted to ROB YOU.

For her childrens sake, I really hope Lauren doesn't hitch up with any of them. Shudders.

Here's a tip, as Skankbiscuit phrased it: "there are many Roma thieves", not "there are many Roma, they are thieves". See the difference?

[Mama Mia]

This statement is problematic, and I'm surprised no other FJer has mentioned that in the what, five days? since you made it. Roma are more than a gang of thieves, and there are gangs of thieves aren't just Roma, I'm sure. If an American on here had said that about black people or Latinos, somebody would've called them out on it immediately.

Not specific to this topic -- but the board was so wonky and crashing so frequently around around when that was posted that I think there were many posts that have just flown under most people's radar the past week. Or if someone went to comment it would crash while replying. Don't know if that's the case here - but I suspect low replies on anything recent could be due to that.

[Marianne]

Here's a tip, as Skankbiscuit phrased it: "there are many Roma thieves", not "there are many Roma, they are thieves". See the difference?

More correct : many Roma are exploited as thieves by true criminal because they are a vulnerable population.

[skankbiscuit]

My main point was really that you can't just park anywhere here overnight and expect to be safe. Especially in large cities and at motorway gas/food stops. I suppose the background of the people committing the crimes isn't important, she just needs to be extremely careful where she parks the van. The Roma property crime issue is talked about freely here in France, but I can see that someone could take offense to my comments.

[So Many Lies]

She will continue to do that anywhere and everywhere without discretion.

If anything happens, well, it's just grist for the mill.

[Annasopinion]

More correct : many Roma are exploited as thieves by true criminal because they are a vulnerable population.

Not correct at all. Roma and Gypsies have been a real societal issue in regards to crime for a very long time. Exploited? Hardly. True crimminals? depends on your definition. Are you suggested the Roma were being exploited 100 years ago? 50 years ago? 30 years ago? That theyre a societal issue just -now-? That clearly isn't so. This reality doesn't fit into nice text books and ideas about society but its a sad fact that there are always going to be people who menace society. You may not like it, it may not be comfortable but I have seen it and continue to see it and it is a real and present problem. A problem that is hundreds of years old in Europe.

[Savoring Samsara]

Not specific to this topic -- but the board was so wonky and crashing so frequently around around when that was posted that I think there were many posts that have just flown under most people's radar the past week. Or if someone went to comment it would crash while replying. Don't know if that's the case here - but I suspect low replies on anything recent could be due to that.

There's also the part where this board had pretty much this exact argument about the Roma a couple of years ago. I, for one, don't feel like rehashing it.

[for_the_Kitties]

Any updates on our Sparkly friend and the authentically sparkly baby? I wonder how the girls are surviving..

[Paperplate]

Any updates on our Sparkly friend and the authentically sparkly baby? I wonder how the girls are surviving..

Her Instagram still shows the pictures from Germany she posted a few days ago. I don't know what's going on on FB.

Are they on a bus or do they sleep in hotels? I guess the girls would like sleeping at a hotel with real beds and bathrooms. Lauren sure does.

[Marianne]

Not correct at all. Roma and Gypsies have been a real societal issue in regards to crime for a very long time. Exploited? Hardly. True crimminals? depends on your definition. Are you suggested the Roma were being exploited 100 years ago? 50 years ago? 30 years ago? That theyre a societal issue just -now-? That clearly isn't so. This reality doesn't fit into nice text books and ideas about society but its a sad fact that there are always going to be people who menace society. You may not like it, it may not be comfortable but I have seen it and continue to see it and it is a real and present problem. A problem that is hundreds of years old in Europe.

50 years ago, the Roma were deported in concentration camp, not exploited, this is true. (thank you for the Goldwin point)

I don't know before, but I'm happy to see that we have a sociologist/historian specialist of the Roma here... What I KNOW is that immigrant (= Roma) arriving in France without speaking French, which does not have paper, can't go to school, can't have health service, are actually exploited by a kind of mafia. Maybe YOU prefer the idea that all Roma are thieves because it is written in their DNA, but the reality is that Roma are caught in organized crime. And I'm not even talking about prostitution.

http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2014/0 ... le_1024317

http://rue89.nouvelobs.com/2014/06/18/v ... que-253001

http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2012/10/ASSEO/48249

http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2013/11/DERENS/49769

[Idolatry]

Lauren is the most authentic of all gypsies, so I'm sure they're all just cool and rainbow with her, like everyone else. She has dreads remember? She isn't like square Europeans, you guys. I'm still waiting to see if she gets picked up by immigration in Iceland.

[for_the_Kitties]

Lauren is the most authentic of all gypsies, so I'm sure they're all just cool and rainbow with her, like everyone else. She has dreads remember? She isn't like square Europeans, you guys. I'm still waiting to see if she gets picked up by immigration in Iceland.

When is she expecting to arrive in Iceland? Should we expect a "black out" of her social media during that time?

[FoxyMoxie]

European here (UK) and the racist comments about the Roma are horrendous but sadly not surprising. Persecution of Roma in Europe is widespread and disgusting. To those calling the Roma thieves and mafia - you are RACIST. Roma are an ethnic/racial group. It's like calling all black people thugs.

Europeans often like to pretend that the US is some kind of racist hellhole and that Europe is totally free of racism and prejudice, but sadly that's not true. Racism is very widespread in Europe (less so in the UK but still there) as these comments show.

Edited to add that g*psy is a slur and you should not use it unless you yourself are Roma. And yes, Lauren's use of the term is racist. Plenty of casual racism gets overlooked in the name of 'authenticity' by crunchy types.

[Marianne]

European here (UK) and the racist comments about the Roma are horrendous but sadly not surprising. Persecution of Roma in Europe is widespread and disgusting. To those calling the Roma thieves and mafia - you are RACIST. Roma are an ethnic/racial group. It's like calling all black people thugs.

Europeans often like to pretend that the US is some kind of racist hellhole and that Europe is totally free of racism and prejudice, but sadly that's not true. Racism is very widespread in Europe (less so in the UK but still there) as these comments show.

Edited to add that g*psy is a slur and you should not use it unless you yourself are Roma. And yes, Lauren's use of the term is racist. Plenty of casual racism gets overlooked in the name of 'authenticity' by crunchy types.

Okay, so if denouncing the fact that the French government abandoned the Roma immigrant, and that they are in the hand of organized crime, is racist, i'm very proud to be a racist.

Foxiemovie I hope someday you'll be in a Roma camp, you will read testimonials about poverty, about exploitation, and you'll change your mind.

Edit : btw, in France, this can be extended to other immigrants. We're not the country of human right when it come to immigrants. :angry-banghead: )

on the subject of Roma, we are stuck between "THERE IS NO PROBLEM BOUH YOU RACIST" and "ROMA ARE ALL THIEVES."

[Marianne]

This night, I dream that Lauren meet Manuel Valls, our stupid, racist, poor-hater, pseudo socialist, catalan (his sole quality), prime minister (this was an unbiased description...). It was priceless :lol:

[sol]

This night, I dream that Lauren meet Manuel Valls, our stupid, racist, poor-hater, pseudo socialist, catalan (his sole quality), prime minister (this was an unbiased description...). It was priceless :lol:

:lol: it would have been even funnier if you'd dreamt that she met Frigide Barjot and Christine Boutin. Boutin would have surely (pretended to) faint upon finding out about Lauren's "gaybe". :lol:

[Marianne]

:lol: it would have been even funnier if you'd dreamt that she met Frigide Barjot and Christine Boutin. Boutin would have surely (pretended to) faint upon finding out about Lauren's "gaybe". :lol:

She would have sent Lauren to her favorite country, Iran.

But, please, don't make me dream of Frigide Barjot. This is a nightmare. (for American Reader : Frigide Barjot is a leader of the fight against marriage equality. Frigide Barjot is a nickname who mean : Crazy Frigid/sexless. GOogle her and you'll understand. She's gay best friend, just, she don't want them to be married.)