Jill Duggar Pregnant! CONFIRMED! MERGED

[slickcat79]

If Jill truly wanted to finish her training, she could have finished it before her marriage. She's not getting a real nursing degree, she's training to be a lay midwife. Three years is more than enough time to finish that, especially when you're living the life of a SAHD and have nothing else to take up your time except raising your mother's children. Jill has even gotten some break from that as her youngest buddy has become older and more independent, and she's been able to use her studies as an excuse to get out of certain Duggar events.

I doubt Jill will ever finish any formalized training program or become a real midwife, and I doubt she really cares. She may continue as a doula, and may be able to offer some minimal assistance to the local population if she and Derick go on future mission trips. But the midwife training was just one more example of the Duggar "kids" marking time until they can do what they've actually been raised to do: get married and pop out babies.

[singsingsing]

Damn there's a lot of judging going on in this thread. Amazing to see what people's assumptions about what's 'right' and 'normal' and 'acceptable' are. Apparently if you don't have the proper excuse to take time off or to take longer to do something, it must mean you just don't want it badly enough. You do realize you're basically criticizing Jill on her perceived lack of protestant work ethic, right? There's no actual tangible impartial reason why taking time off or taking longer to do something is either bad or indicative of lack of interest.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

If Jill truly wanted to finish her training, she could have finished it before her marriage. She's not getting a real nursing degree, she's training to be a lay midwife. Three years is more than enough time to finish that, especially when you're living the life of a SAHD and have nothing else to take up your time except raising your mother's children. Jill has even gotten some break from that as her youngest buddy has become older and more independent, and she's been able to use her studies as an excuse to get out of certain Duggar events.

I doubt Jill will ever finish any formalized training program or become a real midwife, and I doubt she really cares. She may continue as a doula, and may be able to offer some minimal assistance to the local population if she and Derick go on future mission trips. But the midwife training was just one more example of the Duggar "kids" marking time until they can do what they've actually been raised to do: get married and pop out babies.

Plenty of time, assuming her parents actually let her spend as much time doing that as she wanted. We don't know whether they made sure she wasn't so devoted that it pulled her away from required Duggar-time. Book tours, helping raise kids, etc. Perhaps she really couldn't have gotten it all done yet, because her authorities made sure it wasn't becoming number one in her life?

[BrownieMomma]

I'd bet my bottom dollar there was no sex before the wedding, and probably no kissing either.

However young Mr. Dillard has lived his life before now, IMO he has clearly sucked down the extra-large pitcher of Kool-Aid. He did not rescue Jill from the reality show, he jumped into it. I mean, this kid likes some kind of attention, you do not become Pistol Pete unless you like the limelight and TLC is way more limelight than Pistol Pete ever generated.

Jill's job is to be a wife and mother. The midwife thing is now a hobby, a "bent." It is not a career, Jill will not be leaving in the middle of the evening to attend to a birthing mother and Derick feeding, bathing and putting the kids to bed. It just ain't gonna happen.

Will any Duggar ever be freed? I doubt it. Those kids have been raised in isolation, JimBob is not accountable to a pastor, in fact he has no authority over him at all except God, which is not really how it is supposed to be.

Have the Duggar kids ever, even for a few hours a week, been under the authority of anyone other than their parents? Typically it would be the father under the authority of his boss, the mother under the authority of her husband and if she works then her boss but likely she does not work, the children under the authority of teachers and youth pastors... the Duggars have completely avoided all of that.

Any kind of "scandal" is going to be closeted so far and spun so tight that the rest of us won't even be aware of it. The person in question will just quietly disappear, where the heck have Josiah and Amy been? Rare, tightly scripted appearances on the show and no more chances to show worldliness or anything less than sweet bright cheerfulness even when the announcement actually causes you distress. Because I am sure Josiah was not happy to hear of the pregnancy with Jubilee considering that Michelle had to undergo emergency surgery with Josie or risk a stroke. No more chances of someone failing to use self-control in the face of distressing news.

The Duggar image is sweet, shiny perfection. Maybe Josiah is no longer on as much because he got a raging case of acne? At 18 he is not as cute as he was

The Duggars have no reason to free themselves. They are successes in their world, and they have no other basis of comparison due to their lifelong isolation. The rest of the world is trudging along in unbelief, the Duggars are doing it right and reaping God's rewards and blessings.

And yes, I do think Michelle is addicted to having being pregnant and having babies. That one line "I delivered them all" is so key to understanding her. She gets a LOT of attention, even if it hadn't been TLC, she gets tons of attention and kudos for having so many kids - plenty of fundies would have been gasping at her "how do you DO IT ALL" because most mothers would kill themselves trying to be the perfect wife with the perfect house and the perfect kids and wouldn't think to enslave the older daughters to act in loco parentis.

That lifestyle is all about having kids and those kids being perfect and certainly ever stinking one of those Duggars is a cutiepie, all of which enhances Michelle's (and JimBob's) status when they go to the ATI convention.

[countressrascal]

Plenty of time, assuming her parents actually let her spend as much time doing that as she wanted. We don't know whether they made sure she wasn't so devoted that it pulled her away from required Duggar-time. Book tours, helping raise kids, etc. Perhaps she really couldn't have gotten it all done yet, because her authorities made sure it wasn't becoming number one in her life?

I have a feeling that she quit because now in Arkansas she needs to have 7 years of training under a license midwife before she could get her license plus a number of college science/math courses. They are one of the last states (three more to go) to accept the National Lay Midwife training and licensing program. She would have a hard time completing it. Doula is her best bet.

[SunnyAndrsn]

Plenty of time, assuming her parents actually let her spend as much time doing that as she wanted. We don't know whether they made sure she wasn't so devoted that it pulled her away from required Duggar-time. Book tours, helping raise kids, etc. Perhaps she really couldn't have gotten it all done yet, because her authorities made sure it wasn't becoming number one in her life?

I'm surprised she was still "in training". It shouldn't surprise me though.

I think JB and Michelle let some of the girls get "training" in order to try to shut up naysayers like us. It's sort of a "see, the girls can work/support themselves, they just don't HAVE to support themselves." So why should Jill or any of the girls rush to finish job training if they really don't ever intend on working?

[browncoatslytherin]

I believe most workers in the US don't get sick leave and are forced to show up well feeling ill or not get paid.

off topic, but i only get 16 hours worth of sick days a year. 2 days. A YEAR. of course, when i got the job, i was told my time accrued with each check, like my last job in ohio (though the company i now work for was in the middle of a transition, so when i asked about this discrepency, it was blamed on "new policies not being effectively communicated"...whatever). i used up those two days - was actually out three days - earlier this year when i had the flu. when i ended up having a bad reaction to a medication that necessitated two days out last month, i had nothing to fall back on. plus, in the same pay period, i ended up having a monstrous migraine that was so bad, i couldn't even look at a computer screen (which is what i do all day).

so, yeah, that check was absolute shite, as i ended up barely having enough to cover my bus fare after my car payment was paid and i took out some money to put toward rent for this month. it's a good thing that my landlord is my brother, so he was understanding when we didn't have the full amount on the first. 16 hours a year is absolutely ridiculous when it comes to giving out sick time.

sorry, rant over.

[nokidsmom]

You know, earlier in my time here at FJ, I was of the opinion that the most likely means for a Duggar daughter to escape with via a marriage to someone who would go fundie lite afterward. I didn't see many other options for them, because between their parents' tight control over their lives and finances, their limited education, and controlled experiences through TLC (thinking Asian trip here, hardly eye opening for them, just another way for them to view heathens in other countries, but I digress), they don't have the means either emotionally or materially to make an escape on their own.

Seeing how things are going so far with Jill's marriage and Jessa's upcoming nuptials, it's apparent that JB's approving only those who can show they are seriously chugging the kool aid and are willing to join the whole dog and pony show. He probably has a way to weed out anyone who might be faking it until they make it and he's probably sent a few potential suitors packing.

Derick, who strikes me as more mature and smarter than Ben, still has made a devil's bargain in marrying into the family. I don't think anyone, who might go fundie lite, has a ghost of a chance of getting past JB by saying / doing all the right things and then making a 180 afterward.

It still could happen, but it's probably going to take years of putting up with living in the fishbowl and JB's control.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Confession time: I got married pretty young. I was 19 and fresh out of high school. I went through some very trying circumstances when I lived at home with my mother, so when I moved in with Mr. R and M and we got married, I just wanted to spend some time figuring out who I was and to have some fun. Financially, we were doing okay, so I put off working and going to school for awhile just because I wanted to. Hubs was fine with this.

I had a new husband I was crazy about, and I wanted to spend some time getting to know him before going back to work or having kids. I didn't even have the excuse of being pregnant until about a year after we married, but I wouldn't trade the time I spent being relaxed and happy with him for anything in the world.

For me, my only concern is in how quickly Jill got pregnant before she and Derick had more alone time together. Hopefully she can complete her education down the line, but if she's happy having a breather period right now to settle into marriage, then that's all that matters.

[SuffolkNWhat]

All being well with her pregnancy she will have at least those 9 months to get to know Derrick.

IF all is well.

Pregnancy does not agree with me at all (HG, AND, the works, have done it twice) so it's not always the case.

[Boogalou]

This is just more spin by the Duggars. I don't think Jill is ever going to go back to midwifery, especially when her entire family's belief system is dependent on women not working and being in the home as much as possible. She couldn't do it when she was planning a wedding (really?), she couldn't do it when she was adjusting to being married and now she can't do it because of morning sickness. Do we reply think she is going to keep training when she is 8 or 9 months pregnant, when she has a newborn, or when she has 3 kids under 4 with no end to pregnancy or breastfeeding in sight?

Jill said herself, midwifery was a good thing to do in her single years. It's going to keep being pushed back until she can say the lord laid it on her heart to be a SAHM. Jill was raised that this was the only correct way to live; get married and be dependent on your husband. And now that's what she's doing, they are just spinning to make it more palatable to their mainstream audience.

The only problem is now, Jill has no backup plan. She has literally put all her eggs in the Derrick/Jim Bob/Gothard/conservative Christian patriarchy basket. She has partial training but at this point to official certification. What happens if something goes wrong tomorrow or 15+ kids from now. What happens if (God forbid) Derrick is no longer able to earn an income or if Derrick leaves? How well can the church support Jill and a parcel of kids?. Can Jim Bob support them? The TLC money won't last forever. More concerningly, what if Jill wants to leave? The church would never condone something like that and I doubt Jim Bob would either. Her siblings might support her emotionally but there's no guarantee they would be able to do so financially. She might be able to write a book but how lucrative could that be? Who knows if interest in the Duggars will wane over the years.

So sure, Jill made a choice. A choice she was told her whole life is the only one to make. But, really, she has made a whole series of really stupid choices (partially because she has been sheltered from the real world). Her choices have led her to a position where her livelihood is entirely dependent upon her husband (who she has known for less than a year) and following a belief system that treats her as a second class citizen.

At least if she had finished her training she would have an actual certification to fall back on just in case. As it is, she is completely dependent on others. If she needs to, it is possible for her to recover from something going wrong but she has certainly put herself in a position that would make that incredibly difficult.

This is why birth control was so good for the women's movement, controlling your fertility gives you control over your life. I think Jill is hoping for the best, but she is certainly not preparing for the worst.

[nokidsmom]

I have a feeling that she quit because now in Arkansas she needs to have 7 years of training under a license midwife before she could get her license plus a number of college science/math courses. They are one of the last states (three more to go) to accept the National Lay Midwife training and licensing program. She would have a hard time completing it. Doula is her best bet.

So it sounds like the new requirements would probably require her taking courses at an accredited institution (no College Minus here), something that she couldn't complete because A) it wouldn't be Gothard approved and and B) her SOTDRT education would have not prepared her for. Plus having the required 7 years training sets her back as far as putting in the time toward being a real midwife.

I suspect she was truly interested in the midwifery but life with her parents with their demands at home and the show was probably a really big obstacle in getting anywhere with that.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Not defending College Plus, but it is simply a way to take CLEP tests and she can do that on her own if she wants to. It varies from program to program, institution to institution how many credits can be earned this way though.

[Coconut Flan]

I have a feeling that she quit because now in Arkansas she needs to have 7 years of training under a license midwife before she could get her license plus a number of college science/math courses. They are one of the last states (three more to go) to accept the National Lay Midwife training and licensing program. She would have a hard time completing it. Doula is her best bet.

Do you have a link for that info? Mr. Google failed me.

[Yoshimi]

Jill on Midwifery (from July 2013)

I had been considering attending nursing school for a while, but the timing of it all wasn’t working out, and I spent a lot of time in prayer, trying to figure out where God was leading me. Eventually, through my work with the local midwives, the door opened for me to enter into a distance-learning midwifery training program in Texas. This program, after about 3 ½ years of schooling, would give me the education I need to become a licensed, Certified Professional Midwife (CPM). My parents and I prayed and talked about this opportunity, and in May of 2012, I started midwifery school. Currently, my life consists of studying like crazy to keep up with my schooling through this distance-learning program, and at the same time, working as the senior apprentice under a local, nationally certified licensed midwife to deliver babies in an out-of-hospital setting.

So if Jill started in May 2012 that means she still has about 1 1/2 left, give or take. I don't get the comments that she should have finished her training by now. Seems like she was on the right track before getting married, and even if you factor in the time off for her pregnancy/maternity leave, she's within capability to finish her program in 2-3 years. Just because she once said that she saw midwifery as just a "hobby" until she got married doesn't mean that she hasn't changed her mind since. Weren't we all hoping that she would anyway? Maybe she and Derick talked it over and decided that it's okay for her to become a midwife. I could see Derick encouraging her to finish her midwifery training first, especially if they're serious about being missionaries abroad one day.

[chaotic life]

http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/aboutAD ... wifery.pdf

Arkansas requires 20 births as a primary participant and an additional 20 births as the primary midwife under supervision to qualify for licensure. There are also requirements for prenatal, antenatal and post-partum exams and newborn exams that must be met as well.

I will seriously never look at CPMs the same way again. Except for the birth attendance requirements, I am required to have that number of visits for my FNP. The CNEP students at my University are required to attend 200 births and way, way more visits than listed by Arkansas for CPMs.

[Coconut Flan]

I must be confused or misreading something. I thought you said that now the lay midwives in Arkansas would have to take seven years and have to have college classes yet none of that is in the current Arkansas document. I'd found the 2008 revision also. I was wondering where the changes were announced.

[Toothfairy]

I wouldn't want a lay midwife at my birth. God forbid something go wrong.

[coffeebean7]

I can't wait to see what the baby registry will include. More boxes of cereal?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Jill's morning sickness is too bad for midwifery, but she can have lunch dates with her husband?

instagram.com/p/sSnfqTrs_H/

Maybe with her particular brand of nausea she can handle food more easily than bodily fluids, but this does make me sceptical about the whole, "I'll go back to my midwifery training after I'm over the morning sickness".

Also, loving the commenter who says children are a blessing, and how she has a five-month-old daughter that she and her fiancé found out about four months into their relationship. Can you imagine Jill's reaction to reading that?

Because going out to lunch and working during someone's ENTIRE labor and delivery are totally the same.

[Full enough quiver]

I'm not surprised that she quit. I would, in her position. She doesn't have to work. In her culture, she is expected not to, so there will be no societal pressure forcing her to work outside the home. She isn't used to having financial independence, so it's not like she'd miss it. She's been raised to believe that wife and motherhood is the highest calling a woman can have, so it isn't like she would get personal fulfillment from a career. Her parents are better off than most fundie families, so if, god forbid, something happens to Derrick, she could go home. It's not like she'd be out on the street. Midwifery was something to keep her busy until marriage. Now that she's married, I doubt she'll take it up again. At least not until menopause.

[alba]

Because going out to lunch and working during someone's ENTIRE labor and delivery are totally the same.

And Jill was brought up to believe women have rights and options.

The problem is, she wasn't. She's one of the most devoted members of a family that believes women should be stay-at-home-mothers, and only stay-at-home-mothers, and that has been known to lie when their beliefs draw criticism. She's part of a culture that supports women who, no matter how ill they're feeling, meet their husbands for lunch, but denigrates women who pursue education or a career. Did I judge Jill too harshly? Probably. I saw that picture minutes after reading the discussion here about how she says she'll go back to midwifery after the morning sickness dies down and, because I already suspect the morning sickness is just a convenient excuse (I'm not saying her morning sickness isn't so bad she can't study, I just also don't think she'd be studying if she had no illness whatsoever), my mind jumped to criticism. It wasn't fair of me, but at the same time I only made that judgement because of the beliefs Jill and her family espouse. If it had been any other woman, I'd see that picture and think, "I hope this means she's feeling better" - purely out of concern for her wellbeing, not with the expectation that she'd return to work/study. But she's Jill Duggar, so the picture fuelled my already existing scepticism.

[Boogalou]

I'm not surprised that she quit. I would, in her position. She doesn't have to work. In her culture, she is expected not to, so there will be no societal pressure forcing her to work outside the home. She isn't used to having financial independence, so it's not like she'd miss it. She's been raised to believe that wife and motherhood is the highest calling a woman can have, so it isn't like she would get personal fulfillment from a career. Her parents are better off than most fundie families, so if, god forbid, something happens to Derrick, she could go home. It's not like she'd be out on the street. Midwifery was something to keep her busy until marriage. Now that she's married, I doubt she'll take it up again. At least not until menopause.

Sure, if Derrick leaves JB might support her. What happens if Jill wants to leave??

[ViolaSebastian]

Apparently the happy couple announced their pregnancy so early because every life is precious no matter how young.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... paign=1490

[Coco]

I can't wait to see what the baby registry will include. More boxes of cereal?

plain cheerios :D