Kristina of Keepsakes pregnant and due #4 in March

[treemom]

I've never said that courting should be standard. Its what I chose to do and it's what I believe. I know plenty of people who have dated and their marriages have lasted 50+ years and I've known those who courted and their marriages that only lasted a few months.

Its all in how you handle your marriage.

So when you posted the royal rules of courtship you weren't advocating that for a biblical standard?

[treemom]

We've not supported my brothers lifestyle. He knows this. He knows that we will be here and we love his but, we don't support the life he is living.

Ok. Again she didn't say that directly, so I really don't want to put words in her mouth. Those things I said were what my perception was.

[3_and_counting]

So when you posted the royal rules of courtship you weren't advocating that for a biblical standard?

Not a standard, a preference. It showed what I believed, that is why I posted it.

[treemom]

Not a standard, a preference. It showed what I believed, that is why I posted it.

So you believe that following those rules means you are less likely to get divorced than someone who doesn't? Because that is one of the the things that series mentioned if I recall correctly.

[treemom]

What health issues? I've been pretty healthy. Lol. Things with in my family are great. I'm currently watching my kiddos run around, laughing their little heads off.

I think she was referring to health issues you have had in the past. Was it fibromyalgia maybe?

[treemom]

Also Kristina, do you agree with the things your mom posted on courtship? Because she clearly said it was a biblical standard here.

http://juliesjewels062694.blogspot.com/ ... tship.html

[formergothardite]

I looked up Kristina's original stance on pants:

I wonder what happened. :think: That would be a interesting blog post, explaining how she transitioned from "long, flowing skirts only" to fairly form fitting pants. Skimming through the old threads there were lots of Free Jingerians (Christians even!) who pointed out the problems with her translation of the Bible regarding pants, I wonder if she has ever read those threads and cringed at her answers.

I personally would be interested in finding out how you changed your stance on pants.

I also don't agree that it takes 2 to make or break a marriage. Jessica could have been doing everything right and you brother still could have treated her like she was a pile of garbage(and that is exactly what he treated her and the children like they were) and broken the marriage. By saying it took two to break the marriage it sounds like you are still blaming her. You are implying that it is her fault in some way that her husband abandoned her while she was pregnant.

ETA: Do you still agree with your original statement that there is absolutely no reason that you would ever need to get a job?

[Buzzard]

I think she was referring to health issues you have had in the past. Was it fibromyalgia maybe?

Yup, thats it.

edited because my response showed up in the quote

[Palimpsest]

Hello all, guess who! It took a while but I finally got my acct straightened out.

I know there are lots of questions and facts you all are looking to know the answers to. So...please, one question at a time. I will be civil if you all will.

Oh. Hello Kristina.

You must have finally remembered your sign in name and password, or actually figured out how to email the admins.

I hope those cute kids are well, and that your latest pregnancy is going smoothly.

I don't have any questions for you. I suppose I'm not very interested in your latest spin. After all, you said on your blog about Ronnie and Tashia, and this is the exact quote: "I told you that I did not want to comment on their lives, because its not for me to say."

I agree. It is not for you to comment on their lives. Let them speak for themselves.

[fundiefan]

He sees the kids 'when he can'? Hmmm, wonder what Jessica would do if she had a choice? It's not like she can see them when 'she can'. They're with her 24/7. If you make em, you take care of em. End. Of. Story.

Another question - what's up with the pants now? When you were dresses/skirts only it was because the bible said so. Not a preference, but what the bible said; you were convicted. Did the bible change or did you? And why? It's trivial, even as I ask, because I don't care what people wear, but you really did make it about being a good Christian and following the bible, not about a choice. How does one go from doing what god says to do to...something else?

[formergothardite]

I personally am more interested in how her views have changed since the Yuku days and how watching her brother do this to his wife after a "godly" courtship has impacted her outlook on life. Tashia is free to share her view of events, but it really isn't Kristina's place to do so.

[Tallula.Belle]

Jessica may have wanted him to sign over his rights. I mean working as a cop, he would not make much money and I am sure whatever small sum he would have paid toward child support, might not have been worth it to her. I know, I wouldn't want my 4 girls going to spend weekends with a dad that walked out on me while I was pregnant and shacked up with someone else.

It is interesting that all the sudden Kristina that you found out how to log in. Sorry but I don't buy that at all. Furthermore, people who have to depend how happy they are, really are usually not that happy at all. I have been in a happy marriage for 20 years but I don't feel the need to state it everyday. So what is your real reason for being here?

[eh02]

Hi Kristina. I first read your blog probably 5 years ago, but I am a pretty new FJer.

I disagree with a lot of what you believe in, particularly regarding courtship and the concept of purity, but I feel for you because it can't be easy to know that people are discussing your family's ups and downs online nonstop, sometimes rather cruelly.

I hope you're doing well and that your pregnancy is healthy and easy! Just keep doing your own thing and don't worry about having to answer for your family. You don't need to explain to anyone why or how any of your beliefs, opinions or lifestyle has changed over the years, or even the ways in which they have stayed the same. And I don't think it is necessarily fair for people to penalize you for attempting to defend your family or keep certain things private. All of us struggle when we go through hard family times or when loved ones do things that disappoint us.

Your kids are adorable and you seem to be a great mom. All I hope for you is that you stay open minded, because sometimes the best way to really sharpen your faith is to be totally fearless and willing to accept change. I'm sure some of your perspective on life is very different now than it was 5 years ago, and it will be different 5 years from now, too. It's a journey, so freely welcome the new experiences and how your opinions and beliefs evolve with time. Don't feel the need to defend yourself when all you're doing is living your life.

[treemom]

. You don't need to explain to anyone why or how any of your beliefs, opinions or lifestyle has changed over the years, or even the ways in which they have stayed the same. And I don't think it is necessarily fair for people to penalize you for attempting to defend your family or keep certain things private. All of us struggle when we go through hard family times or when loved ones do things that disappoint us.e.

Why are you on FJ? She doesn't have to do anything, but if she doesn't want to look like a raging hypocrite and a liar, then yeah she might want to.

But seriously, you seem to have an issue with the sort of core concepts around FJ so why are you here?

[eh02]

Hey, I have no problem at all saying that I find most of the things Kristina blogged about offensive, and that's putting it politely. The idea of sexual purity is ridiculous to me. I think courting as a model for marriage preparation is not only bizarre but dangerous and sets people up for difficult marriages. The idea that women should stay at home by "purpose" and not by choice is most offensive at all. It's obsolete and it horrifies me because it keeps women in a permanent position where they rely on men for support - which (sorry, Kristina) becomes very evident in situations like this when men leave their wives and the mother of their children high and dry.

I grew up in a fundie community with unusually progressive parents, so I have a particular soft spot for attacking people on a very personal level. I'm a raging feminist and work in the sexual health field, and sometimes when I look back at how my life went and look at the people I grew up with who took a very different road, it just makes it very hard for me to see people be this harsh. It is NOT easy to live with that level of guilt, fear and manipulation, and I know people like Kristina will say that there is no guilt or fear there, but as someone who saw plenty of it firsthand, I'll never believe that's not the case. I mean, if she WAS unhappy - and I'm not saying she's not - you really think she's going to dish to Free Jinger of all places about it? Of course she feels defensive, hundreds of strangers know very personal details about her life. Yeah, maybe she was stupid for putting them out there to begin with, but it's a scary place to be regardless.

[Palimpsest]

I personally am more interested in how her views have changed since the Yuku days and how watching her brother do this to his wife after a "godly" courtship has impacted her outlook on life. Tashia is free to share her view of events, but it really isn't Kristina's place to do so.

I have never been a Kristina fan, but I agree it might be interesting to find out how her views have changed.

I don't particularly want to engage with her or be "civil" to her though. Kristina is and has been remarkably rude to us. :lol: Also, her timing, and the miraculous solving of her supposed inability to post here, is very suspect. Tashia arrives by proxy and :: whoooph:: within hours here comes Kristina!

Methinks she is just here to trash Tashia (and probably will get around to trashing Jessica too in time.)

That said, Tashia obviously has an iron in this fire too and, no offense Tashia, but I'm not going to take everything she says as gospel truth either.

[Childless]

No, Kristina doesn't owe anyone an explanation. However, if she's going to put her life out there for everyone to see, then she can't be surprised or upset when people comment on it or ask for explanations. I'm a private person and don't want people sticking their noses into my life and the choices I make. To prevent this from happening, I choose not to blog. See, problem averted. Maybe more people (including Kristina) should share less online. It might make their lives a little easier.

[eh02]

No, Kristina doesn't owe anyone an explanation. However, if she's going to put her life out there for everyone to see, then she can't be surprised or upset when people comment on it or ask for explanations. I'm a private person and don't want people sticking their noses into my life and the choices I make. To prevent this from happening, I choose not to blog. See, problem averted. Maybe more people (including Kristina) should share less online. It might make their lives a little easier.

I guess what I'm really saying to her is she should probably just get off FJ, her public facebook etc. and just try to force herself not to feel the need to explain things to anyone else anymore. For her early blogging, I feel sympathy for her, because 5-6 years ago she was young and sheltered and she, I'm sure, had no idea that so many people would read what she wrote.

But, at some point (like now...) you have to be an adult and just call it and walk away. It's not good for her or her family to put this mess all over the internet so I do hope she's able to resist the urge to get involved in the future, for their own sake. And I really do genuinely hope she is able to get past the fundie guilt that goes with coming into your own as an adult and realizing that some of the things you once believed very strongly you no longer believe.

I mean, the whole spectacle of this is just ridiculous, and I'm sure it's hard to just let it go, but that's really what she should do.

[formergothardite]

In a way I do feel sorry for Kristina in that she is probably having to go through her friend list and see who knows her, her mom, her sister, her brother and the rest of her family who would also come here and talk about her. Most likely it is someone she would never suspect, so even if she goes through and unfriends people she doesn't know that well, there is a good chance she is not going to figure it out and she is going to suspect completely innocent people who will be puzzled at why they were unfriended.

Fundies do seem to attract the worst sort of friends who are more than willing to throw them under the bus. I think a big part of this is the sanctimonious, holier than thou, annoying way they preach their lifestyle.

[thoughtful]

Hello all, guess who! It took a while but I finally got my acct straightened out.

Huh -- that took a long time, and, as Palimpsest pointed out, is interestingly timed. This thread has been reminding all (including you, if you were looking) of your user name since page 8, in August:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22561&start=140#p776066

and a quick note to the admins would have gotten you a new password, if you'd forgotten the old one, or solved any other problems you were having:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15379

It gets hard to believe someone who claims to have problems that take so long to fix, when we know they would be easily solved.

It's also hard to believe someone who has a history of calling things biblical, moral, universally better, or just more likely to be successful, then changes some of those things in her own life, now claiming they were simply "personal choice."

[bBvideo 560,340:2uhgjenb]

[/bBvideo]

How about you?

So, since some of these other convictions seem to have changed, can you at least engage the possibility of not leaving the number of children up to God, or of a woman needing to have the ability to make a living?

Can you see that what your mother went through, and your ex-sister-in-law, could happen to you?

If not, why not? Is it submission, having courted, or something else that holds your marriage together?

Even if he never leaves, what will you do if your husband becomes severely disabled or dies? You have many small children -- where is their security?

[treemom]

I actually think Kristina would be fine if she had not been raised with a toxic worldview.

But I think when you publish like a seven part series on courtship prior to even courting and you see courting didn't protect anyone, not Jessica and not Ronnie, you have to say to yourself, hey maybe that was a perversion of theology.

I am sure she is a kind, compassionate person who loves her children and her husband. But there are limits there....remember what she said about abortion, remember their interesting parenting techniques, remember that she didn't think women should work at all...but saw a female OB. It is fair when she has come here over the years, blogged, tried to get us to buy her handcrafts and MLM to ask her...hey what about consistency.

She was young. Which is fine, I was younger when I got married. But as I realized that perhaps the narrow ideology I held (I was not a fundie or even Christian) wasn't the truth or even healthy I was honest to myself at least.

Are your honest with yourself about these things Kristina?

[treemom]

I guess what I'm really saying to her is she should probably just get off FJ, her public facebook etc. and just try to force herself not to feel the need to explain things to anyone else anymore. For her early blogging, I feel sympathy for her, because 5-6 years ago she was young and sheltered and she, I'm sure, had no idea that so many people would read what she wrote.

But, at some point (like now...) you have to be an adult and just call it and walk away. It's not good for her or her family to put this mess all over the internet so I do hope she's able to resist the urge to get involved in the future, for their own sake. And I really do genuinely hope she is able to get past the fundie guilt that goes with coming into your own as an adult and realizing that some of the things you once believed very strongly you no longer believe.

I mean, the whole spectacle of this is just ridiculous, and I'm sure it's hard to just let it go, but that's really what she should do.

I hope instead she read the fair and measured criticism here and considers what is means if the criticism is valid. She doesn't have to explain anything...but I do hope she gains self awareness and if she comes here as her worldview changes she just owns perhaps she was too stringent, too harsh...

[Tallula.Belle]

My question would be how are they going to support 5 kids? Does she not care that her husband has to work harder the more kids they have. I mean he is not even 30 years old and he looks 50. I bet he doesn't even make $40k a year. Her husband also supports street preachers. The ones that get in your face and yell. I have been a Christian all my life, not fundie obviously and there is no surer way to turn anyone off of what they want them to believe than yelling at them. No where in the Bible did Jesus yell at anyone. Just take a loo at his friend list. One of the guys he supports used to be so full of himself that he has his first name listed and his last name as TheBaptist. This same guy is the worst of the worst in my opinion.

[eh02]

I hope instead she read the fair and measured criticism here and considers what is means if the criticism is valid. She doesn't have to explain anything...but I do hope she gains self awareness and if she comes here as her worldview changes she just owns perhaps she was too stringent, too harsh...

I agree! I think, while FJ can be catty or petty at times, there's a lot of wisdom here too. A lot of us have pasts in the fundie realm and know what it is like in such a stifling, insular world. Again, I know Kristina would never come out and say that her extreme religious upbringing has negatively affected her in any way, but I just hope she's at least open minded to changing her mind about things in the future. I think she probably is and just doesn't feel very eager to share it with FJ :lol:

Of course, in my ideal world, Kristina would realize that being a stay at home mom is a CHOICE that can make many women happy but is not every woman's God-prescribed destiny. And I hope that her kids grow to be happy, well adjusted adults that are free to be themselves and find their own way in life, and that she can value them as individuals who may not always take the same path she did.

One of the best examples you can set as a mom IMO is showing your children, daughters especially, an example of a woman who truly values herself as an individual, who is able to care for herself, utilize her strengths and skills, and pursue her passions. Every woman is an individual person before she is a wife or mother. They can be very defining, important and rewarding aspects of your life, but they aren't your WHOLE life. Selflessness is not always a good thing - little girls need to know they are worth much more than the services and companionship they provide to men. But I'm slowly and unintentionally creeping back on to my feminist soapbox here. Oops.

[bionicmlle]

1) Tashia needs to make her own FJ account. It is unfair and a little bit suspect that Curious is posting as proxy. Would this fly, regularly? Also weird that Kristina would all-of-a-sudden magically make account work. Tashia! Make account. Post. It's okay.

2) Kristina: Weren't you in a wheelchair at some point during a pregnancy? No one is accusing you of false illness or anything - someone was wishing you well and inquiring about your health given your frequent pregnancies. We're not a den of vipers (all the time).

3) It is interesting to know the evolution of one's beliefs -- it is not a condemnation of one's past beliefs, but an acknowledgement that we all change and that we can admit that what we have believed in the past is ridiculous. It would be lovely to have the interchange with Kristina on these issues!

And, I'm spent.