Jill Duggar- courtship confirmed - MERGE

[memmy]

I've just listened to the whole interview and can't get over how many times all of them use the word "aspect"

[Cleopatra7]

At least Joy isn't expected to take care of babies unless jchelle has number 20. I remember one photoshoot of the duggars daily life it showed Jana doing laundry and fixing lunch while minding Jannie and joy while Jill practiced piano with jenny strapped on to her.

I think Joy has done her share of childcare, even if it hasn't been as much as the J'slaves. When Joy was much younger (somewhere between eight and ten), she said she'd changed more diapers than adults and claimed to enjoy it.

[ljohnson2006]

Is Heidi a Queary? I doubt Jill is courting. She's too valuable with her midwifery work, and child raising to be able to court. Jessa is less needed. Sad but true.

[doubleT]

Yes, Heidi is a Queary. She did a good job keeping Josie settled during that long ass interview. Don't know why the little kids had to endure that ... especially since so much of the interview focused on sex.

The only people that really needed to be there were Jill and Michelle. I guess they are the only ones trusted to give party line answers. I'm surprised John talked as much as he did. I think that is the most I've ever heard from him.

And I've gotten to the point where I can hardly even stand to hear Anna's voice. Its like fingernails on the chalkboard to me. I'd rather listen to Josh than her ... its that bad!

[isarhenne]

You're all assuming Jana wants to be married and having babies. She's the oldest girl in the family, she's already raised a ton of kids. I don't think she's in a rush to marry, I think she's as happy as she can be doing what she does. I don't see her as sad and depressed, I see her as shy and not really enjoying the spotlight, truth is you don't know much at all about her and whether or not she even wants to court/be married.

errr, my post wasn't meant to be 100% serious. of course, I don't know what Jana really wants, probably nobody on this forum does. I just wanted to create a positive outlook for her, the details weren't meant to be all serious. on the other hand you cannot automatically assume that she does'nt want to get married and kids right now only because she has raised her siblings. maybe she does, maybe she doesn't.

this is a forum to snark after all, the whole freejinger thing shouldn't be taken seriously, or do you take every post on here seriously? actually, at least a quarter of the threads here are based on assumptions, so...well....

[veron1que]

I think she's courting, but I'm in the camp that doesn't think that jb and Michelle are to blame for the lack of courtships. They would gladly pimp out their kids for ratings. I don't think they are keeping them around to do housework, I just think the duggar children have become arrogant (much based on their talking heads about the bateses and other fundies). Clearly JD is not married, and weddings/grandbabies are exciting for fundies. I just think the jslaves have been waiting for the right guy, and I'm sure the vast majority of their offers have been from fans and other creeps.

[singsingsing]

I think she's courting, but I'm in the camp that doesn't think that jb and Michelle are to blame for the lack of courtships. They would gladly pimp out their kids for ratings. I don't think they are keeping them around to do housework, I just think the duggar children have become arrogant (much based on their talking heads about the bateses and other fundies). Clearly JD is not married, and weddings/grandbabies are exciting for fundies. I just think the jslaves have been waiting for the right guy, and I'm sure the vast majority of their offers have been from fans and other creeps.

I agree with you for the most part, but I also don't find it that strange that only two of them have courted so far. JD and Jana are only 24 and the rest are younger. When courting = serious intent to marry, it's not surprising that they're still waiting. I think most young adults would still be single in their early-mid 20s if it was a choice between not dating at all or being under immense pressure to marry the first person you get into a relationship with.

[freethemall]

You're all assuming Jana wants to be married and having babies. She's the oldest girl in the family, she's already raised a ton of kids. I don't think she's in a rush to marry, I think she's as happy as she can be doing what she does. I don't see her as sad and depressed, I see her as shy and not really enjoying the spotlight, truth is you don't know much at all about her and whether or not she even wants to court/be married.

The thinking around here seems to be more that she just wants to get OUT at this point, is always looking miserable and even a little desperate at this point, and that getting married is the easiest way for her to do so. Plus, it's one thing to raise your mother's children, it's another to raise your own and have more control over your life (yes I know, her headship would still have lots of control over her) and she'd probably take the first Ben Seewald-lookalike that could offer that.

[Mama Mia]

I really think ( based on absolutely zero factual info ) that they are probably mostly enjoying life right now. Sure they still have little kids to watch, but everyone's out of the diapers / stick things in their mouth phase. They have fashionable clothes, travel, probably go to lunch with their friends. If they get married at 20 they are much more likely to hit mega-family size. If they wait until 25 ish they are more likely to stay in the high single digits.

They probably are open to the idea of marriage and courtship, if someone they really like comes along, but I don't see why they would be particularly anxious about waiting a few years. And I agree with the poster that said most offers probably come from creepy fans, so they are probably particularly leery of guys who come around.

[ljohnson2006]

You mean, Little kids to raise, Mrs. S2004. J'Chelle and Boob stopped parenting long ago.

[lovemygsp]

The crap training these lay midwives have makes me ragey. I for one can't help but think about how awful it is that Jill is even allowed to call herself a midwife and if she gets married and can't "work" then good. Unless a midwife has gone through nursing school and has training to deal with true medical emergencies they have NO business delivering babies.

Now if she actually got a accredited nursing degree I be thrilled for her but since college is evil that will never happen. Instead she will risk the lives of both mother and baby of those who don't know enough to know she has no true medical training.

[veron1que]

You mean, Little kids to raise, Mrs. S2004. J'Chelle and Boob stopped parenting long ago.

Eh, I don't get the sense that there is much parenting happening by anyone in the Duggar household. Sure the older girls do chores and help with child care (as in getting kids food, changing kids after accidents, providing toys), but I dont think there is much evidence to suggest any real parenting is going on or that the girls are raising their siblings. Caring for them, yes. But disciplining them, meeting their emotional needs, helping them learn to be good people, I doubt it. The young children are rowdy, uneducated, and undisciplined, no parents in site. A household of their size with some real parenting wouldn't need "Duggar time"

[Toothfairy]

The crap training these lay midwives have makes me ragey. I for one can't help but think about how awful it is that Jill is even allowed to call herself a midwife and if she gets married and can't "work" then good. Unless a midwife has gone through nursing school and has training to deal with true medical emergencies they have NO business delivering babies.

Now if she actually got a accredited nursing degree I be thrilled for her but since college is evil that will never happen. Instead she will risk the lives of both mother and baby of those who don't know enough to know she has no true medical training.

That means going to real school, taking a bunch of real classes, being on someone else's time, and looking at male and female parts. :shock:

And in Arkansas even a lay midwife requires certification and a license. I never even heard of a lay midwife until I looked it up. Jill is probably so far behind in her studies that she would probably need tons of remedial courses and pass the GED before she can set foot in a real college.

[Coconut Flan]

I'm pretty sure Jill has a GED. She at least has been shown studying on the show. Something most of the others have not.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Honestly I don't know what I wish for these girls/women. It's hard to tell how onerous their lives are now with so many to share the burdens of cooking and cleaning and childcare. Plus they live a fairly affluent lifestyle with new clothes, make-up, iPhones, and plenty of food. No need to worry about how to pay bills or how to fit 6 people in a two bedroom apartment, or how to keep sweet when life becomes stressful. If they got married they would have to please their husband and adopt his standards and lifestyle. I just cannot imagine that there are loads of fundie boys who are agreeable, thoughtful, and smart enough to get ahead in life while also being amenable to being a part of the Duggar Show-- off and on camera.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I think she's courting, but I'm in the camp that doesn't think that jb and Michelle are to blame for the lack of courtships. They would gladly pimp out their kids for ratings. I don't think they are keeping them around to do housework, I just think the duggar children have become arrogant (much based on their talking heads about the bateses and other fundies). Clearly JD is not married, and weddings/grandbabies are exciting for fundies. I just think the jslaves have been waiting for the right guy, and I'm sure the vast majority of their offers have been from fans and other creeps.

Well, I would blame the arrogance on their parents. I mean, these are kids whose only real interactions with the world involve them being the center of attention. It's not like these kids have activities where they have to learn that the whole world doesnt care about them/their family. Everywhere they go, they're paraded around, they're made to feel special, people talk about how great their convictions are, etc. So, unlike normal people, they're not given the real world experience that would make them shut up and sit down. That's all on their parents. And while they might not (I say might cause I have no way of knowing for sure) like having to raise their siblings, it's a small price to pay for not having to worry about the things other people their age do (crippling student loans, finding a job, etc). And, again, that's their parents' fault.

[Katydid]

The crap training these lay midwives have makes me ragey. I for one can't help but think about how awful it is that Jill is even allowed to call herself a midwife and if she gets married and can't "work" then good. Unless a midwife has gone through nursing school and has training to deal with true medical emergencies they have NO business delivering babies.

Now if she actually got a accredited nursing degree I be thrilled for her but since college is evil that will never happen. Instead she will risk the lives of both mother and baby of those who don't know enough to know she has no true medical training.

I thought I was the only one who felt this way on here! I have a couple of IRL friends who either lost babies to negligent CPMs or received *extremely* poor care resulting in massive reconstructive surgery. I just can't support anyone who is not a CNM or CM calling themselves a midwife.

I *do* want Jill to have the opportunity to pursue a CNM degree if she wants to be a midwife, and I think it's fucking despicable of her parents to forbid her that opportunity, and to perpetuate the poor level of care that people who choose CPMs/DEMs/LPMs receive.

Many women, myself included, have (had) no idea that all midwives aren't nurse midwives, and are unwittingly deceived. UGH.

[Rebelwife]

I thought I was the only one who felt this way on here! I have a couple of IRL friends who either lost babies to negligent CPMs or received *extremely* poor care resulting in massive reconstructive surgery. I just can't support anyone who is not a CNM or CM calling themselves a midwife.

I *do* want Jill to have the opportunity to pursue a CNM degree if she wants to be a midwife, and I think it's fucking despicable of her parents to forbid her that opportunity, and to perpetuate the poor level of care that people who choose CPMs/DEMs/LPMs receive.

Many women, myself included, have (had) no idea that all midwives aren't nurse midwives, and are unwittingly deceived. UGH.

However unpopular it might be, I have to stand up for non-CNM midwives a little bit - at least as far as telling people to check their state regulations. In my state a CNM will not attend home births, but CPMs will. CPMs have to graduate from an acredited three year program and pass a licensing exam. They also have to have a relationship with an OB where they can refer patients, although they do not work directly for an OB or other doctor as a CNM would. Insurance policies that cover maternity care are required to pay for services from a licensed MW.

There are many state where non-CNM midwifery is not legal at all and I think that creates so many problems - any quack who has read one book sets herself up as a professional. But I had a CPM midwife attend my home birth who was very qualified, referred me to a perinatalogist for an US (my husband's one request for his peace of mind) and who referred me to her backup OB with no problems at all when I had an unusual situation several weeks after the birth. My family doctor also had a relationship with her and his policy was to do one house call for his patients that had home births so my child also got the standard newborn exam.

Anyway, I don't disagree that there are many quack "midwives" out there and if my state didn't license them in a way I felt comfortable with I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. (I used an OB and hospital birth for that reason with my first child who was born in a different state.) I just wanted to offer one other perspective.

Disclaimer: I have no idea what Arkansas' laws are and whether or not the training Jill is receiving is even in line with those laws.

(edited for grammar)

[Genk]

Another in support of CPMs. Here in Alberta, as well as some other provinces, CPMs pass a licensing exam and are covered by our provincial health care. My midwives can order u/s, bloodwork and pregnancy related drugs. They are allowed to treat any low risk pregnancies. At the end of my pregnancy I developed HELLP syndrome which required an immediate cesarean. One of my midwives was in the operating room and as soon as my son was delivered, she was now the primary caregiver for him. They also were in charge of my care as soon as I was discharged as well.

They work in concert with the OBs here and it is a fantastic model of care. I know there are a few places where you can become a CPM and I'm hopeful that if this is something that Jill wants she can achieve it. As her education has taken a few years maybe she is working towards this kind of designation.

Worth noting, my friend who is a midwife makes about $140k a year. It is a very lucrative career here.

[FakePigtails]

Another in support of CPMs. Here in Alberta, as well as some other provinces, CPMs pass a licensing exam and are covered by our provincial health care. My midwives can order u/s, bloodwork and pregnancy related drugs. They are allowed to treat any low risk pregnancies. At the end of my pregnancy I developed HELLP syndrome which required an immediate cesarean. One of my midwives was in the operating room and as soon as my son was delivered, she was now the primary caregiver for him. They also were in charge of my care as soon as I was discharged as well.

They work in concert with the OBs here and it is a fantastic model of care. I know there are a few places where you can become a CPM and I'm hopeful that if this is something that Jill wants she can achieve it. As her education has taken a few years maybe she is working towards this kind of designation.

Worth noting, my friend who is a midwife makes about $140k a year. It is a very lucrative career here.

The model of midwifery care and certification as it pertains to non-nurse midwives in the US vs. Canada is completely different. It's comparing apples and oranges. The name for their certification may be similar but beyond that and that both deliver babies there's a world of difference.

ETA: "The minimum standard for a CPM's education is only recently (2012), a high school diploma."

http://safermidwiferyformichigan.blogsp ... rican.html

and http://safermidwiferyformichigan.blogsp ... world.html

[Daenerys]

Took me ages to realise that Jill wasn't going to a proper college, as in the UK a "midwife" is I think what Americans call a Nurse-Midwife... you have to do three years of university training equivalent to a nursing degree, but focussed exclusively on the care of pregnant women, new mothers and newborns.

[Genk]

I think the term CPM also varies from state to state. My girlfriend went to Bastyr in Seattle and got the Masters in Midwifery. But within their course they do state you end up as a CPM.

http://www.bastyr.edu/academics/areas-s ... -midwifery

other info:

http://www.mana.org/about-midwives/lega ... s-midwives

[FakePigtails]

I think the term CPM also varies from state to state. My girlfriend went to Bastyr in Seattle and got the Masters in Midwifery. But within their course they do state you end up as a CPM.

http://www.bastyr.edu/academics/areas-s ... -midwifery

other info:

http://www.mana.org/about-midwives/lega ... s-midwives

They also offer masters degrees in acupuncture and ayurvedic medicine . . . others may feel differently about those forms of alternative medicine but at least IMHO that puts it on a very different level from a nurse-midwife degree or what's accepted in other countries' midwifery requirements.

[Rebelwife]

The model of midwifery care and certification as it pertains to non-nurse midwives in the US vs. Canada is completely different. It's comparing apples and oranges. The name for their certification may be similar but beyond that and that both deliver babies there's a world of difference.

ETA: "The minimum standard for a CPM's education is only recently (2012), a high school diploma."

http://safermidwiferyformichigan.blogsp ... rican.html

and http://safermidwiferyformichigan.blogsp ... world.html

Yes, it definitely differs state by state. Some states' regulations are pathetic.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I'll be devil's advocate! What if J-B TOLD the little girls to say/do that about Jill? Boost ratings the sneaky way.