Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge

[LadyPriss]

The real test of character though will come if one or more of the girls say 'yes'. What will Jim Boob and Michelle do about it? Will they renounce Gothard and his teachings?

They would probably stick with IBLP and refer to 'Why did God Let it happen' book and counselling package.

store.iblp.org/products/WDGLH/

[Toothfairy]

I think Jim Bob and Michelle might put the blame on their daughters. They might tell them is was their fault for being sinful and/or having impure thoughts :angry-banghead:

[gustava]

Chris Hogan, president of ATI taking an 'active role in the transition,' is the "relationship coach" that met with JB and Michelle in Puerto Rico! (See "Love and Marriage" episode last season.)

He's the genius that stood with a piece of rebar (and $10) between him and JB's throat...

Good catch!!!

[Tangy Bee]

Kelly Bates is pretty quiet. I'd like to know what she & Gil know.

I wonder if anyone has questioned them on the blog and she deleted it. Bet Gil isn't allowed to discuss the issue.

[gustava]

The real test of character though will come if one or more of the girls say 'yes'. What will Jim Boob and Michelle do about it? Will they renounce Gothard and his teachings?

On the thread about their book, the sainted person synopsizing it for us says that the girls know if something is wrong, the girl is expected to tell Mullet or the Boob, so I'm guessing if they haven't told by now, nothing happened or they won't be honest.

[DGayle]

Recovering Grace has published their correspondence with Bill Gothard: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/ ... with-bill/ .

Is it just me, or does that sound a lot like by "reconciliation," he really means find a way to spin what he did so that the bible approves?

[tropaka]

Reconciliation in my view has always meant we'll just forget and move on, but not so sure in this case. The whole idea of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, like in the Catholic Church, doesn't wash here (heh) because, unlike the Catholic church (where people were going against Church doctrine), Gothard wrote the doctrine...he's their Guru...

[formergothardite]

I definitely think Jim Bob and Michelle will ask their daughters if Gothard did anything to them. ANY parent who heard allegations like this would ask their daughters, knowing that their daughters had been alone at JTTH multiple times!! The Duggars are very protective over their children.

I don't think for one second that they will ask or even believe the allegations against Gothard. Just go read how the supporters of Bill Gothard are reacting. It isn't "Hmm, we should talk to our daughters about this" One man even admits that he saw Gothard favor one of his daughters who has the Gothard "look" over a less attractive daughter and he said that there was nothing wrong with him doing this and he would willingly send his daughter to work for Gothard. Most of the other followers don't believe. They are saying that the stories are coming from witches, atheists and gays so they aren't reliable. This is all just made up. I think that the Duggars are more likely to go this route.

People who are protective of their children don't exploit them on television for money. And also they are protective when it comes to things from the "world", but things from Gothard are considered safe.

[JenniferJuniper]

I definitely think Jim Bob and Michelle will ask their daughters if Gothard did anything to them. ANY parent who heard allegations like this would ask their daughters, knowing that their daughters had been alone at JTTH multiple times!! The Duggars are very protective over their children.

I disagree completely.

The Duggars are interested in protecting their children from the outside world only so they can maintain control over their thoughts, minds and actions. They should have known the older stories about Gothard and his brother Steve and yet they had no qualms about putting their daughters in the hands of the cult. Even if they were ignorant or didn't believe the stories, there is the total ick factor of putting your daughter under the control of an 80 year old unmarried man who dictates how they should wear their hair.

Jim Bob and Michelle will not ask their daughters about Gothard - or any other staff member connected with his cult - because if one of them says something happened, they will know their daughter the temptress was the responsible party. And none of the daughters will ever tell their parents if something happened for the same reason.

Jim Bob is probably just hoping this can be swept deeply under the carpet so he can keep TLC producing shows about his daughter's engagement, marriage and first child. I doubt he's thinking about much else right now.

[DGayle]

I disagree completely.

The Duggars are interested in protecting their children from the outside world only so they can maintain control over their thoughts, minds and actions. They should have known the older stories about Gothard and his brother Steve and yet they had no qualms about putting their daughters in the hands of the cult. Even if they were ignorant or didn't believe the stories, there is the total ick factor of putting your daughter under the control of an 80 year old unmarried man who dictates how they should wear their hair.

Jim Bob and Michelle will not ask their daughters about Gothard - or any other staff member connected with his cult - because if one of them says something happened, they will know their daughter the temptress was the responsible party. And none of the daughters will ever tell their parents if something happened for the same reason.

Jim Bob is probably just hoping this can be swept deeply under the carpet so he can keep TLC producing shows about his daughter's engagement, marriage and first child. I doubt he's thinking about much else right now.

I think they'll avoid it altogether because, as long as they don't know anything, it didn't happen, and by not asking, no one has to lie.

[apple1]

http://www.suntimes.com/26056414-761/leader-of-oak-brook-religious-group-resigns-amid-sex-harassment-allegations.html

It finally hits the Chicago Sun Times.

final paragraph

Dang. While checking this out, I just found out that Gibbs' office is only about a mile from my house.

ETA - Gibbs and Associates is David Gibbs Jr.; CLA is David Gibbs Jr. What is this mumbo jumbo "at the request of its client, the Christian Law Association"?

Someone has posted in comments on RG that Gibbs wants to "depose" the girls/women. This is not a good thing.

[redcurls]

I wonder if anyone has questioned them on the blog and she deleted it. Bet Gil isn't allowed to discuss the issue.

I did. About a weekish ago, I submitted a comment about the scandal, but Kelly did not approve it. I wonder if she thought I was a heathen troll or simply doesn't want to address the issue. It was a genuine question...

[Palimpsest]

Someone has posted in comments on RG that Gibbs wants to "depose" the girls/women. This is not a good thing.

Usual disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and I hope real lawyers chime in.

My opinion only: If true, and not rumor, it is actually a good thing. With that terminology Gibbs/Gothard/IBLP has shown their hand. This is not an internal investigation using an objective outside investigator - they mean adversarial bullshit! RG has been warned.

"Depose," FFS. Legal language misused to intimidate the uninformed. Deposition = a formal statement usually taken under oath. Not a single victim of Gothard's needs to go anywhere near this internal investigation unless they want to. They should not want to.

A "deposition" can only be required in a legal case. If Gothard wants to sue RG for libel then he should do so. Only then can Gibbs "depose" anyone.

The victims are under no obligation to talk to Gibbs at this point. They should let their published words on RG speak for themselves. They have not filed suit against IBLP and Gothard has no hold over them. It is an internal investigation initiated by IBLP.

I hope none are so naive that they feel that they need to talk to these assholes because of all that "Grace" and "healing" stuff. But if they do out of the goodness of their hearts to help IBLP out, then they should have their own legal representation in the room at all times. Otherwise it is just fodder for the libel case IBLP has planned.

[CloakNDagger]

What kind of history does Gibbs have? Isn't he the guy from the Terri Schiavo case?

[SamuraiKatz]

Usual disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and I hope real lawyers chime in.

My opinion only: If true, and not rumor, it is actually a good thing. With that terminology Gibbs/Gothard/IBLP has shown their hand. This is not an internal investigation using an objective outside investigator - they mean adversarial bullshit! RG has been warned.

"Depose," FFS. Legal language misused to intimidate the uninformed. Deposition = a formal statement usually taken under oath. Not a single victim of Gothard's needs to go anywhere near this internal investigation unless they want to. They should not want to.

A "deposition" can only be required in a legal case. If Gothard wants to sue RG for libel then he should do so. Only then can Gibbs "depose" anyone.

The victims are under no obligation to talk to Gibbs at this point. They should let their published words on RG speak for themselves. They have not filed suit against IBLP and Gothard has no hold over them. It is an internal investigation initiated by IBLP.

I hope none are so naive that they feel that they need to talk to these assholes because of all that "Grace" and "healing" stuff. But if they do out of the goodness of their hearts to help IBLP out, then they should have their own legal representation in the room at all times. Otherwise it is just fodder for the libel case IBLP has planned.

I hope these women realize they don't have to speak to anyone unless they are subpoenaed. I don't think ATI/IBLP wants anything on the public record. These jerks just want to intimidate and silence Gothard's victims.

[Palimpsest]

What kind of history does Gibbs have? Isn't he the guy from the Terri Schiavo case?

The Jack Schaap case (he lost). I think I also remember his name from the Tina Anderson case that I reread recently. And in a case involving a girls' "Christian" torture and reprogramming center school. Not Hepzibah but one of the others.

Possibly the Terri Schiavo case . . . I don't remember.

[apple1]

The Jack Schaap case (he lost). I think I also remember his name from the Tina Anderson case that I reread recently. And in a case involving a girls' "Christian" torture and reprogramming center school. Not Hepzibah but one of the others.

Possibly the Terri Schiavo case . . . I don't remember.

Yes, Gibbs was involved in the Schiavo case.

Gibbs was never Jack Schaap's attorney. Gibbs was retained by First Baptist Church Hammond, to potentially protect the church from liability for Schaap's wrongdoing. I'm fairly convinced that Gibbs' advice to FBCH was to hang Schaap out to dry so as to protect itself. Schaap's attorney was Paul Stracci (as I understand it, an expensive Chicago-area attorney, with nor particular history in church/clergy/religious matters).

The Gibbs firm represented the Roloff "homes".

Gibbs participated with FBCJacksonville in tactics to intimidate the victims of the late Bob Gray.

[Palimpsest]

Yes, Gibbs was involved in the Schiavo case.

Gibbs was never Jack Schaap's attorney. Gibbs was retained by First Baptist Church Hammond, to potentially protect the church from liability for Schaap's wrongdoing. I'm fairly convinced that Gibbs' advice to FBCH was to hang Schaap out to dry so as to protect itself. Schaap's attorney was Paul Stracci (as I understand it, an expensive Chicago-area attorney, with nor particular history in church/clergy/religious matters).

The Gibbs firm represented the Roloff "homes".

Gibbs participated with FBCJacksonville in tactics to intimidate the victims of the late Bob Gray.

Many thanks! Sometimes I worry about my memory. Can you remember any other cases Gibbs has been involved with? What exactly is the relationship between CLA and Gibbs law firm? Inquiring minds want to know. :)

[apple1]

Many thanks! Sometimes I worry about my memory. Can you remember any other cases Gibbs has been involved with? What exactly is the relationship between CLA and Gibbs law firm? Inquiring minds want to know. :)

Well (grain of salt and all) - my best take is that CLA is a "nonprofit" segment. Kind of like VF Ministries vs. VF Inc. Probably with equally much financial shenanigans. I can't prove this, however.

[Lillybee]

I think that if one of the Duggar girls was molested by Gothard, I think that the Duggar parents would blame their girl child because they were the ones who tempted their mightly leader

[mnwnwmwmn]

Gibbs is the snake all the IFB'ers call on when they're eventually busted touching the children. I hate him probably more than I hate BG, DPIAT, Schaap, and Roloff combined. I actually hope there is a hell so he can burn in it for all eternity.

[FlorenceHamilton]

In all honesty, I think that both J'chelle and Kelly Bates got the real scoop (through the spin fed to the headships by whomever is pulling the strings for David Waller) They likely will tell their children that Mr. Gothard is quite a bit older now and he is retiring. I am quite certain that they have indoctrinated the children well about the evil "world". They have heard scary stories about what the big bad "world" tries to do to destroy people. Any rumor or innuendo the kids hear about scandals involving Bill Gothard will be seen as proof that the outside world is an evil place.

[Rebelwife]

Many thanks! Sometimes I worry about my memory. Can you remember any other cases Gibbs has been involved with? What exactly is the relationship between CLA and Gibbs law firm? Inquiring minds want to know. :)

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm not able to start new ones yet. Are there any threads that summarize more of what's gone on with FBC Jacksonville since the late 90's? I grew up living across the street from Homer Linday Jr. but haven't really lived in jax since 1987.

FWIW, my neighborhood was decidedly middle-class, not even what I would call upper middle class although it edged in that direction. Lindsay didn't live extravagantly that I could see, although he sure grew FBC and veered way conservative.

Sorry for the interruption of your regularly scheduled thread!

[apple1]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm not able to start new ones yet. Are there any threads that summarize more of what's gone on with FBC Jacksonville since the late 90's? I grew up living across the street from Homer Linday Jr. but haven't really lived in jax since 1987.

FWIW, my neighborhood was decidedly middle-class, not even what I would call upper middle class although it edged in that direction. Lindsay didn't live extravagantly that I could see, although he sure grew FBC and veered way conservative.

Sorry for the interruption of your regularly scheduled thread!

I will start a thread about FBC Jacksonville.

[Rebelwife]

I will start a thread about FBC Jacksonville.

Thanks!