Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 6

[ILoveJellybeans]

Go Nolan! :)

[hoipolloi]

My apologies for doubting & dissing you, Nolan.

Don't back down!

[debrand]

In an effort to keep me silent, (1) my family has been manipulated against me, (2) lies have been circulated about me, and (3) I’ve been told by Sarah Long Munn I’ll be ashamed of my words because “real men†are working behind the scenes

.

What does that even mean? Is it a threat? The extra word, real makes me wonder what criteria Sarah Long Munn uses for men to be 'real'. Apparently, it means more than just having a penis. Real men, in her view, must be guys who protect those who abuse their positions and hurt other people.

I feel bad that Nolan has had to take such a strong stance with his mom but I can understand his rational. If he has children, daughters especially, the mindset of BCA is not one that he wants to encourage. Of course, anyone can be a victim but training children that they are supposed to ignore their instincts to obey authority figures is dangerous.

[CloakNDagger]

The hell with a "church trial." If there was sexual exploitation and abuse of a minor, I want to see it dealt with in civil court. You know, Doug - it's the place where those of us who don't consider ourselves above the law go if we've done something illegal. :evil:

That may be difficult and is likely the reason for silence on the part of a few. However, there are plenty of other wrongs that need to be righted.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

I can't even keep track of this drama any more - but I just wanted to pop in for Nolan because having been raised in a fundie family, I know how incredibly hard it is to have your own parents turn on you in the name of "righteousness." Keep up the good fight dude - living in true freedom is a beautiful revelation. And maybe down the road, your parents will realize how totally f'ed up and wrong they've been and come around to the Light.

Speak truth to power and be strong! :-) And remember if you ever decide to have kids - don't do this kind of crap to them

[bbfreethinker]

The (current) third post on the front page itself mentions Vision Forum by name, the fact that Perry needs a new job, etc. So I'm not so sure.

And if you do a search for Vision Forum, there are several pages of results.

[Evil Feminist]

Why is Jordan warning Nolan that Doug the Tools sending his post to his Lawyer? Is he being threatened with a lawsuit?

[debrand]

Why is Jordan warning Nolan that Doug the Tools sending his post to his Lawyer? Is he being threatened with a lawsuit?

Unless Nolan is being dishonest, there is no grounds for any kind of lawsuit. It is surprising that Doug doesn't try to shut down either us or Jen's Gems. My guess is that he knows that his scare tactics won't work with us and Jen hates him too much to listen. He might view Nolan-if the threats are true-as someone who will be intimated by a lawyer's threats even if that lawyer has no grounds to actually do anything.

It is ironic that Doug both hides behind the beliefs that Christians shouldn't either sue or bring in outside authorities to judge a fellow believer and is willing to threaten to sue or use the legal authorities against other Christians. I don't know how his supporters explain that contradiction unless they believe that their leaders don't have to follow the same rules that they do.

This reminds me of the quote from Animal Farm"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

[Palimpsest]

Why is Jordan warning Nolan that Doug the Tools sending his post to his Lawyer? Is he being threatened with a lawsuit?

Doug the Tool, Esq. has a history of threatening others with secular lawsuits. In the uneducated pond that was VF secular law suits were terrifying and of Satan. Doug scared the living crap out of them with legalese.

The Tool, Esq. used to have a stable of lawyers. Note the past tense. He has less money and far less power today. His "confession" protects Nolan, IMO, from a libel suit, (standard disclaimer - iamnotalawyer!)

The latest: Jordan seems to be modifying his approach and admitting that Doug may have been engaged in criminal behavior.

From Nolan's FB:

Jordan Muela Nolan Manteufel A rebuke and a church trial are not the same thing. A church trial involves witnesses and impartial judges that are neither related to, or employed by the accused or the accuser. So for example, if I was a sole elder at a church, I would not be able to conduct a "trial" to exonerate one of my close friends, in secret, with no witnesses. Furthermore, based on what I am reading above it sounds like you may be referring to criminal activity in which case a church trial is subordinate to a state run trial that handles matters of criminal behavior such as clerical abuse which is a felony in the state of Texas. So yes, honest, fair, church trials are good and necessary when leaders fall into sin. BUT, when criminal activity is involved, the state has ultimate jurisdiction to prosecute the matter and churches that attempt to deal with it in house and cover the crimes out of sympathy for the accused very well may be involved in committing the crime of aiding and abetting other criminal behavior. Serious matters indeed.

[Nobodysdoormat]

Don't get me wrong, I love any Doug news but shouldnt the victim be talking to a lawyer and not some guy who wants to sell her story for 99c?

[uber frau]

Riding the ISB: I think Nathaniel Darnell is giving him legal advice.

[SamuraiKatz]

He's not dumb, and the irony is there...

Someday the truth of what all has happened will come out. I think it won't be too long before more stuff becomes public in various ways. It's too bad that some key players won't break their silence. I guess it's just too embarrassing.

CloakNDagger, I think Nolan played that rather well. I applaud his courage in standing up to his family regarding Vision Forum. The "key players" should be ashamed of themselves for not doing the right thing from the get go.

[Palimpsest]

Riding the ISB: I think Nathaniel Darnell is giving him legal advice.

I hope you mean Doug! :lol:

Natty D's internet JD from a non-accredited "university" is pretty useless. If memory serves, he can only sit (and perhaps pass) the Bar in CA. No other state accepts it as a genuine law degree.

[uber frau]

I know. Its based on a number of presumptions.: Darnell and Nolan have both been burned by Doug, and that CnD is Nolan.

CnD commented in the thread about Darnell's (failed) courtship and wrote off any speculation of Darnell's sexuality as vicious rumours planted by those who wanted to take sown such a legal high flyer.

I can see a sheltered and poorly educated kid being slightly dazzled by the fact that Darnell has a bit of paper that says he knows stuff. I can also see him turning to someone like Darnell for help, especially if Darnell's expertise is the best he can afford. As poor as Darnell's credentials might be, he's still a damn sight more educated than most of the exVF set of that age demographic and he's one of the only ones whose might be brave, or educated, or maybe just foolhardy enough to not take Doug's threats of legal action seriously.

Like I said: pure ISB;)

[Peas n carrots]

So the td;lr version of why the beans haven't been spilled yet is that Dougie and/or Dougie's supporters have somehow coerced/threatened people to keep their traps shut?

[CloakNDagger]

I know. Its based on a number of presumptions.: Darnell and Nolan have both been burned by Doug, and that CnD is Nolan.

CnD commented in the thread about Darnell's (failed) courtship and wrote off any speculation of Darnell's sexuality as vicious rumours planted by those who wanted to take sown such a legal high flyer.

I can see a sheltered and poorly educated kid being slightly dazzled by the fact that Darnell has a bit of paper that says he knows stuff. I can also see him turning to someone like Darnell for help, especially if Darnell's expertise is the best he can afford. As poor as Darnell's credentials might be, he's still a damn sight more educated than most of the exVF set of that age demographic and he's one of the only ones whose might be brave, or educated, or maybe just foolhardy enough to not take Doug's threats of legal action seriously.

Like I said: pure ISB;)

You're wrong. I'm not Nolan and Darnell's posts of late were embarrassing. In fact I thought that the whole "courtship announcement" thing was embarrassing, too, even though I defended him.

[CloakNDagger]

Don't get me wrong, I love any Doug news but shouldnt the victim be talking to a lawyer and not some guy who wants to sell her story for 99c?

She could do both ya know... After all, she still has friends who stand by her.

And he's not selling her story. His paper isn't about her.

[Palimpsest]

I'm beginning to suspect CnD is KISA popping back in under another name. KISA has a lot of egg on his face from the last time he was here.

CnD is not Nolan although it was a possibility. Nolan is very in your face, albeit not very coherently, and CnD is ... sneakier? Oh, look! CnD just dissed Nate again!

Anyway, if Nolan is consulting Darnell I hope Nate will direct him to a real attorney qualified to practice in TX.

Actually, I've hoped all along that Hero was getting good legal advice. Only an attorney can assess the strengths of her case, although I think she probably has a good one. I'd also advise Nolan to get a quick consult with an attorney if he gets a Cease and Desist type letter from Doug. It will be well worth the $$.

Problem is, I think Hero, and possibly also Nolan, will be very reluctant to involve secular authorities. BCA conditioning runs deep. Even if they do, it will be very difficult for Hero if it goes to court. You would need to be incredibly tough to get through a case like that and IMO no-one should try to force a victim to come forward. She has to do it voluntarily.

[CloakNDagger]

I'm beginning to suspect CnD is KISA popping back in under another name. KISA has a lot of egg on his face from the last time he was here.

Nope... and your speculation about my identity is amusing. I'd tell you who I am, but there are people in my community that I'd rather not know that I'm posting here.

CnD is not Nolan although it was a possibility. Nolan is very in your face, albeit not very coherently, and CnD is ... sneakier? Oh, look! CnD just dissed Nate again!

Anyway, if Nolan is consulting Darnell I hope Nate will direct him to a real attorney qualified to practice in TX.

LOL - hard. Nothing of the sort...

Actually, I've hoped all along that Hero was getting good legal advice. Only an attorney can assess the strengths of her case, although I think she probably has a good one. I'd also advise Nolan to get a quick consult with an attorney if he gets a Cease and Desist type letter from Doug. It will be well worth the $$.

Problem is, I think Hero, and possibly also Nolan, will be very reluctant to involve secular authorities. BCA conditioning runs deep. Even if they do, it will be very difficult for Hero if it goes to court. You would need to be incredibly tough to get through a case like that and IMO no-one should try to force a victim to come forward. She has to do it voluntarily.

From a recent conversation, it is apparent to me that despite his fall from current leadership, people are still drinking the kool-aid deep and are really messed up in their thoughts about the situation. Nolan's post below does seem to be happening.

It helps Doug’s case to (1) spread lies, (2) keep BCA in a state of confusion, (3) divide the girls friends, and (4) ostracize the girl from her friends.

Sadly, if it was just DPiaT that was doing this, it would be easier to contain. All of his little trained minions are the problem, because they allow, enable, whatever this to continue. The manipulation requires that others do dirty work.

DP may be a T, but all his little helpers are his T's.

[SamuraiKatz]

So I decided to contribute to Nolan's beer fund...got a message stating the full version was not available.

[WonderingInWA]

So I decided to contribute to Nolan's beer fund...got a message stating the full version was not available.

Oh, no! He's either raised his price for the full version or is finally trying to figure out how to offer it for free. What a silly boy he is. So what you got -- is it just the 65-cent version, or what do you estimate its value to be?

[SamuraiKatz]

Oh, no! He's either raised his price for the full version or is finally trying to figure out how to offer it for free. What a silly boy he is. So what you got -- is it just the 65-cent version, or what do you estimate its value to be?

Maybe 20 cents? Can't really say unless I can get the other 8 or so pages.

[formergothardite]

I hope you get a refund or the rest of the gossip.

[WonderingInWA]

Maybe 20 cents? Can't really say unless I can get the other 8 or so pages.

Well, thanks for taking one for the team, all 99 cents worth! I hope you end up getting the other 8 pages and can share them with us! We'll owe you a case of the finest micro-brew!

[ThisOlGirl]

CloakNDagger--

I'm not trying to be bitchy, but I'm curious about why you're posting. You seem to have a lot of inside info, but you're being very vague. I'm assuming that giving out actual information will reveal your identity to people that you don't want it revealed to. So why post anything at all?