Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 6

[Nutamole]

We discussed Peter Kershaw in Part 5 about a month ago. SSB has a lot of convincing evidence that TW Eston is Peter Kershaw but I don't think the fact has been established beyond all doubt yet. IIRC, TW's only response has been to say that he is not a kinist -- according to wikipedia's definition of a kinist (paraphrase).

Summary from my not always accurate memory: Peter Kershaw (AKA Frank Vance) is a very nasty misogynistic patriarchal kinist and the author of a book called Hushmoney. As Frank Vance he used to run a horrible racist blog, Little Geneva, with Harry Seabrook. Little Geneva is also famous for attacking Sproul Jr. The blog has since been wiped because Harry Seabrook's employers found out about his hate-mongering and fired him. Allegedly!

Kershaw was a former friend of Howard Phillips but they fell out at some point. He and Jen had known ties in the past and Kershaw's fingerprints are all over TW's writing. In fact the best reason I can think of to doubt that Kershaw and TW Eston are one and the same is that Kershaw apparently complained publically a few years ago that Jen had made an unwanted pass at him. The mind boggles.

More than you wanted to know perhaps!

Here's Peter's own Bio-- for even MORE more than you wanted to know. hushmoney.org/peterkershaw-bio.pdf

I am now convinced that he IS TW, even though I've seen no proof. The writing style matches perfectly, including some rather unique phrases. But I'm not an expert.

As for the Kinist thing-- TW also said (paraphrased) that some of his best friends are interracial couples. But he never answered a commenter who carefully (and politely) asked him to spell out his beliefs on the subject. Instead, Jen launched into a mini-tirade against him/her. After that, both Jen and TW went totally silent for about a week. Prior to TW's next artcle, Jen wrote a piece on FB explaining that Kinists aren't racists, and that some of her best friends are Kinists (greatly paraphrased).

[Nutamole]

Re: Post Count Title---- Mommy!!!! It's morning and I haven't had my bottle yet! Can I get out of the packnplay?

18 bigger kids ave been flushing the toilet all night and waking me up!

Wait, Mommy! Put down the plumbing line! I'll be quiet! I promises!

[Palimpsest]

Here's Peter's own Bio-- for even MORE more than you wanted to know. hushmoney.org/peterkershaw-bio.pdf

I am now convinced that he IS TW, even though I've seen no proof. The writing style matches perfectly, including some rather unique phrases. But I'm not an expert.

As for the Kinist thing-- TW also said (paraphrased) that some of his best friends are interracial couples. But he never answered a commenter who carefully (and politely) asked him to spell out his beliefs on the subject. Instead, Jen launched into a mini-tirade against him/her. After that, both Jen and TW went totally silent for about a week. Prior to TW's next artcle, Jen wrote a piece on FB explaining that Kinists aren't racists, and that some of her best friends are Kinists (greatly paraphrased).

Thanks for the extra details.

Gah! Peter Kershaw's bio! What the hell does this mean [my emphasis]: "He wrote much of the original Tenth Amendment Resolution, which has since been ratified in over half of the several states"? I also think his bio left off his deep and continuing involvement in Ministry Watchman. If anyone has the slightest doubt that a kinist is an out-and-out racist and white supremacist take a quick look over there. And, yes, I'm sure some of Jen's best friends are kinists -- she and Kershaw are old pals! FYI, Jen has been accused of being a kinist herself since, perhaps, 2007. She always claimed it was BCA slandering her.

I'm convinced that Kershaw is TW Eston also but have no proof. The writing style, the paralegal claims, general snottiness, long standing feud with VF, longstanding defense of the Epsteins against BCA . . .

I don't know who this Peter McWilson guy is, but I found his take on Kershaw here fairly convincing: globalcomment.com/quiverfull-an-interview-with-kathryn-joyce/ (scroll down to the second comment in the comments section.)

Jensgems is pretty inactive these days. I wonder whether "TW" and Jen have finally run out of scurrilous rumors? Or perhaps most of their readers finally realised that they have zero credibility. What Doug has done is horrible, and their inaccurate gossip just detracts from the real issues.

[HereticHick]

The longer Kim C's Life in a Shoe blog remains archives-free due to "virus issues" the more I am convinced that she deliberately removed all past content to get rid of all references to Vision Forum.

[Nutamole]

Thanks for the extra details.

Gah! Peter Kershaw's bio! What the hell does this mean [my emphasis]: "He wrote much of the original Tenth Amendment Resolution, which has since been ratified in over half of the several states"? I also think his bio left off his deep and continuing involvement in Ministry Watchman. If anyone has the slightest doubt that a kinist is an out-and-out racist and white supremacist take a quick look over there. And, yes, I'm sure some of Jen's best friends are kinists -- she and Kershaw are old pals! FYI, Jen has been accused of being a kinist herself since, perhaps, 2007. She always claimed it was BCA slandering her.

I'm convinced that Kershaw is TW Eston also but have no proof. The writing style, the paralegal claims, general snottiness, long standing feud with VF, longstanding defense of the Epsteins against BCA . . .

I don't know who this Peter McWilson guy is, but I found his take on Kershaw here fairly convincing: globalcomment.com/quiverfull-an-interview-with-kathryn-joyce/ (scroll down to the second comment in the comments section.)

Jensgems is pretty inactive these days. I wonder whether "TW" and Jen have finally run out of scurrilous rumors? Or perhaps most of their readers finally realised that they have zero credibility. What Doug has done is horrible, and their inaccurate gossip just detracts from the real issues.

The Peter McWilson comment looks really familiar, though I've not seen that site before. Kershaw seems to have a long-term nemesis whom he calls Mark and also goes by Jerry. Maybe the same guy! Didn't Jen also accuse a friend-of-Doug Matt Chauncey (sp?) of spreading racism rumors? Don't know anything about him-- is there snark somewhere on FJ?

Maybe ther are no more scurrilous rumors because the tool's ouster was a simple business decision. The money man decided to try a new front man (or men, or boys) for the operations.

Bottom line, we're reduced to reading riddles and insults on Facebook from a kid who apparently wasn't even an intern.

"Thou actest the fool!"

"Well, thou art a coward!"

"I did not say thou ART a fool, only thou ACTEST one!"

"Thou art not suchlike an coward as Bradrick!, who didst run off to furthest geographies!"

"Thou pawn!"

"Heapest up thy dung upon thine own doorway!"

[Marian the Librarian]

Ooh - Shakespearean insults - my favorite! "Thou cream-faced loon..."

[WonderingInWA]

Ooh - Shakespearean insults - my favorite! "Thou cream-faced loon..."

"I fart in your general direction!".

Oh, wait, that's Python. Sorry. Carry on.

[Drunkenbutterfly]

WTH have they done to Nolan? He is getting busy again on his FB wall, calling out Phillip B. and Nathan Barnes. I mean WOW! What happened to him? Seriously, one can almost feel his pain.

[DomWackTroll]

WTH have they done to Nolan? He is getting busy again on his FB wall, calling out Phillip B. and Nathan Barnes. I mean WOW! What happened to him? Seriously, one can almost feel his pain.

His latest, um, instruction/accusation/whatever to Barnes: "JUST RAPE ME IN THE ASS!!!"

[hoipolloi]

WTH have they done to Nolan? He is getting busy again on his FB wall, calling out Phillip B. and Nathan Barnes. I mean WOW! What happened to him? Seriously, one can almost feel his pain.

Part of Nolan's, uh, rebuke of Nathan Barnes, who had previously rebuked Nolan (from Nolan's public FB page at facebook.com/nolan.manteufel?fref=ts):

You think you can sit me down and command me? As if i’m your son? Do I owe you ANYTHING?! Especially, do I owe you anything IN PRIVATE? You want to control my answers and modify my behavior… JUST RAPE ME IN THE ASS!!! …that’s the result of PRIVATE submission to leaders of your style.

What DID happen to Nolan and why is he so fired up?

[Maxwell]

he followed those... ahhh... instructions with, "... that's the result of PRIVATE submission to leaders of your style."

Couple that with what else has been said Nolan, and others, and add in DP's statement that he didn't 'know her in the biblical sense' and... ummm... this may be getting interresting.

[SamuraiKatz]

Part of Nolan's, uh, rebuke of Nathan Barnes, who had previously rebuked Nolan (from Nolan's public FB page at facebook.com/nolan.manteufel?fref=ts):

What DID happen to Nolan and why is he so fired up?

I think this young man his figured out that everything he's been taught is a great big load of crap. I hope he gets some counselling.

[hoipolloi]

And as for YOU, Philip Bradrick -

What is all this commotion about? A pastor committed a First Degree Sexual Sin over the course of many years on one of the children in his congregation. Supposedly he was confronted by this guy, Peter Bradrick, but Peter posted stuff on FB last year REITERATING THE NEED FOR SILENCE about it. Plus, Peter removed his online testimony. So, it might as well have never happened. Good job, Peter. Not the brightest, are we. Oh right, he can’t read this.

In January i made a cryptic post telling Peter to “Go away. Never come back.â€

Instead of helping Peter change his posts, Phillip attacked me… on my FB page, no less. No respect. No sense of decency. Not even realizing that most of you, my FB friends, don’t know him. Dumbass. Who does he think he is?

[gustava]

I'm confused. :pull-hair:

[countressrascal]

I really don't care who he slept with- I want to know when they are going to sell the costumes?

[WonderingInWA]

I'm confused. :pull-hair:

Me, too. All these quotes and no explanation about where they come from or even any helpful speculation.

Some people who post here are better at explaining the context of things they find online, so I'm waiting for tha tto happen. Pretty hard to snark when you can't follow the implied meaning of posts.

[RachelB]

Ooh - Shakespearean insults - my favorite! "Thou cream-faced loon..."

I bite my thumb at the lot of them, the knot-pated coxcombs.

[jojo]

Interesting. I was under the impression that Doug was not supportive of modern military service. I have lots of ties to the army and air force. Not only did my father die in Vietnam but my husband retired from the military, my sister is in the military and my brother served for awhile. I am a tiny bit sensitive to Vision Forum's pimping of the modern military for money when their members weren't willing to actually serve.

Do you know which branch of the military that these men are in? Did they serve overseas? I wonder how they felt serving under women? Are these people Christian Reconstructionists or are they a different denomination than Doug Phillips? Why would they use Scott Brown as their officiant?

I am sorry you lost your father in Vietnam. That must have been incredibly hard for your mother, you, and your family. I am grateful for your dad's service.

[Nutamole]

And as for YOU, Philip Bradrick -

The quote is from Nolan ' s Facebook. Actually, he's starting to make more sense to me.

Eta. Found a couple pics of Nolan and Phillip together in happier times. servenclan.blogspot.com/2006/11/uniting-church-and-home-conference.html?m=1

[Palimpsest]

Me, too. All these quotes and no explanation about where they come from or even any helpful speculation.

Some people who post here are better at explaining the context of things they find online, so I'm waiting for tha tto happen. Pretty hard to snark when you can't follow the implied meaning of posts.

I'll try to give an explanation and context a shot -- if I understand your bewilderment. I also don't think I'm very good at it -- and I may be answering the wrong question. Eh, even my explanation will be totally bewildering if you have not had a passing acquaintance with threads Part 1 to 5.

The quotes come from Nolan Manteufel's public Facebook page. Nolan seems to be well connected with VF. His sister is married to "Mrs Robinson's" son. (See previous threads for JensGems weird outing and shaming of Mrs R.)

OTOH, no-one here seems to know much about the Manteufel family. (Speculation only -- the Manteufels were at some point BCA and bolted from the cult.) Nolan is majoring in electrical engineering at a real accredited college. He seems to have found a mission. He is deeply hurt by the demise of VF and seems to see his role as educating the VF masses about DP the Tool's, Scott Brown's and BRADRICK!'s serving both God and Mammon

Nolan seems to know and hate BRADRICK! and former VF interns seem to know him. He is an injured and outraged puppy. He also seems to be stretching beyond VF limitations -- he drinks beer and quotes Chomsky!

Nolan is calling out BRADRICK!, the Tool and Scott Brown. His "calling out" is weird, obscure, and ineffectual but he is a lightening rod for "true believer" VF scions to attack him.

The level of discourse on Nolan's FB is junior high squabbles. Very snarkable but genuinely pathetic -- in the true sense of that word.

To me, it highlights how very disadvantaged these children of the cult will be in life outside it. They are so brainwashed that even when they see a crime and it horrifies them, they cannot report it to secular LE (because LE = Satan).

These boys cannot debate. They just go in circles. They can just sling biblical quotations and grade school insults at each other. They are not "men." VF training has stunted their growth and they seem stuck in early adolescence.

Having said that the level of Nolan's FB discourse is junior high (at best) I don't really see a much better standard of discourse in the comments at Recovering Grace. Or even SSB, although Julie Ann is fighting the good fight there. But then, I don't give a shit about Biblical Principles.

The conditioning seems so deep that many of the faithful are just stuck. Crimes have been committed but they want to talk about "Church Discipline!" :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

ETA: Ineffectual as he is -- I think Nolan is very courageous.

[nausicaa]

he followed those... ahhh... instructions with, "... that's the result of PRIVATE submission to leaders of your style."

Couple that with what else has been said Nolan, and others, and add in DP's statement that he didn't 'know her in the biblical sense' and... ummm... this may be getting interresting.

That was my first thought as well. But still, I can't see the Tool standing in front of a gathering of angry Browns and Bradricks saying, "Gentlemen, I did not know her in the Biblical sense. It was merely sodomy!"

Nolan could be referring to a "him," not a "her" though...

[DomWackTroll]

How strange it is that Nolan's sister is married to "Mrs. Robinson's" son, yet Nolan is defending Jen of Jen's Gems:

facebook.com/nolan.manteufel/posts/636307033083470?stream_ref=10

WTH is going on with THAT???

[WonderingInWA]

Thank you, Palimpsest! I feel better on track now! That filled in some gaps on this Nolan boy, and why Philip Bradrick has entered the picture!

*Edited to correct the Bradrick boy's name.

[SamuraiKatz]

I just scanned Nolan's facebook. I do think it is rather clever to put the dainty morsel out there with a 99 cent pay per view and an upfront admission that he is going to use the proceeds to buy beer. This gives the VF insiders the dilemma of not knowing or pay Nolan for the information knowing full well that doing so will cause Nolan to "sin" by buying and drinking beer.

[CloakNDagger]

I just scanned Nolan's facebook. I do think it is rather clever to put the dainty morsel out there with a 99 cent pay per view and an upfront admission that he is going to use the proceeds to buy beer. This gives the VF insiders the dilemma of not knowing or pay Nolan for the information knowing full well that doing so will cause Nolan to "sin" by buying and drinking beer.

He's not dumb, and the irony is there...

Someday the truth of what all has happened will come out. I think it won't be too long before more stuff becomes public in various ways. It's too bad that some key players won't break their silence. I guess it's just too embarrassing.