Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 6

[Palimpsest]

My comments in red.

Nope... and your speculation about my identity is amusing. I'd tell you who I am, but there are people in my community that I'd rather not know that I'm posting here.

I can understand why you want to remain anonymous. No need to tell us who you are. I'm glad that you find our speculation amusing, but we do it for a very serious reason. We are very suspicious of people who come here anonymously claiming "insider" knowledge for good reason. Creepy people masquerading as insiders or survivors of false ministries and spreading false information can do a lot of damage to the credibility of genuine survivors. We have been burned before. So expect to be challenged frequently and that we will question all the information you give us unless we can verify it elsewhere. People will also question your motives in posting here. Just don't pull a KISA and get too catty about VF people you dislike without giving specific reasons. Except for BRADRICK! You can insult him all you like!

LOL - hard. Nothing of the sort...

If true, good. it was just idle speculation. I think Darnell's legal skills are ... lacking. I also think he is still drunk on kool-aid.

From a recent conversation, it is apparent to me that despite his fall from current leadership, people are still drinking the kool-aid deep and are really messed up in their thoughts about the situation. Nolan's post below does seem to be happening.

Sadly, if it was just DPiaT that was doing this, it would be easier to contain. All of his little trained minions are the problem, because they allow, enable, whatever this to continue. The manipulation requires that others do dirty work.

DP may be a T, but all his little helpers are his T's.

While it is distressing to think that Doug Phillips still has such a hold on BCA members and that so many of his trained minions are still loyal to him, I see no reason to doubt Nolan's take on this. Even without your confirmation. :) We have speculated before that Doug's fall from grace is merely temporary and his true believers will help him rise again.

I just hope both Hero and Nolan can weather this horrible situation. Again, Nolan is very brave to take a stand.

[CloakNDagger]

CloakNDagger--

I'm not trying to be bitchy, but I'm curious about why you're posting. You seem to have a lot of inside info, but you're being very vague. I'm assuming that giving out actual information will reveal your identity to people that you don't want it revealed to. So why post anything at all?

Because I'm tired of silence.

[ThisOlGirl]

Because I'm tired of silence.

Oh ok, well that clears everything up. Except it doesn't. If the "silence" you're referring to is the silence about Dougie's shenanigans, then put what you know out there. Otherwise, you're only being vague because A) You're an attention whore or B) because you enjoy playing games and you think you're stringing everyone along or C) You don't know shit about anything that's going on.

[Palimpsest]

Oh ok, well that clears everything up. Except it doesn't. If the "silence" you're referring to is the silence about Dougie's shenanigans, then put what you know out there. Otherwise, you're only being vague because A) You're an attention whore or B) because you enjoy playing games and you think you're stringing everyone along or C) You don't know shit about anything that's going on.

It's a bit irritating isn't it? But in all fairness to our Cloak and Daggered friend those aren't the only options. I can think of quite rational and understandable reasons D through F quite easily.

CnD should speak for him/herself, however.

I'm more interested in why s/he is breaking his/her silence, even in this limited fashion, here at ebil FJ. There are more godly places -- like SSB -- where s/he would get a much gentler reception. Having said that, I very strongly suspect CnD is male and typing s/he and his/her gets old fast.

Can you answer that question CnD? Are you male or female?

[Nobodysdoormat]

I'm confused, if Nolan's manifesto isn't about Hero and Doug who is a tool, what is it about? Don't we all have Jen if we want to read about his abuse of power?

[ThisOlGirl]

I understand being anonymous ( aren't we all?), and I understand the need to be somewhat vague. There have been posters in the past that kept things somewhat vague to protect their identity and were still able to give information. Maybe I'm missing something, but CND's comments don't seem to be much different then the commenters over at Jen's Jems who claim to be insiders (like Dougie's so-called neighbor).

[CloakNDagger]

Other people's silence is deafening. I, like Nolan am concerned with it. Some people have done things - for instance the VFM board apparently thought that the deal was bad enough to shut it down, but then haven't said a peep... So was it just the girl that got it shut down, or did they shut it down to save their own necks in the process... that kind of stuff needs answers. They have to know that the truth will eventually come out, whether they like it or not. Hopefully, more of them will realize that it's better to come clean than to hide and cover the truth.

[debrand]

So the td;lr version of why the beans haven't been spilled yet is that Dougie and/or Dougie's supporters have somehow coerced/threatened people to keep their traps shut?

I think that many of these people have been taught that bringing a lawsuit against a fellow believer or involving outside authorities is wrong. Everything is to be handled by the church authorities, including abuse that should land the practitioner in jail. Ironically, I doubt that Doug Phillips is a tool would hesitate to bring outside authorities-the police-into a situation if it suited him. You end up with a situation where all the followers are obeying the rules but people like Doug aren't.

Hero needs to seek advice from an attorney not affiliated with Vision Forum.

[Palimpsest]

Other people's silence is deafening. I, like Nolan am concerned with it. Some people have done things - for instance the VFM board apparently thought that the deal was bad enough to shut it down, but then haven't said a peep... So was it just the girl that got it shut down, or did they shut it down to save their own necks in the process... that kind of stuff needs answers. They have to know that the truth will eventually come out, whether they like it or not. Hopefully, more of them will realize that it's better to come clean than to hide and cover the truth.

OK, you are tired of the deafening silence from Doug and the VF board of Directors, especially Scott Brown? You are tired of the code of silence that is stopping the inner circle, Doug's enforcers, the true believers, or whatever we want to call them, from speaking openly about what went on in the past, and what is going on now? You want answers.

The massive shut-down and lack of transparency is enough to piss anyone off. Your questions are not being answered and you want to express frustration here. Welcome. Pull up a chair, sit down and join the club.

We all want answers to the questions you posed, CloakNDagger. If you look back through all 5 of the long previous DP threads here, if you haven't already, you can see our anger at the situation, frustration, and a whole lot of speculation. The anger and frustration must be magnified 1,000 fold if you are local to San Antonio or connected to VF or BCA in any way.

Quite frankly, what is happening to Nolan right now is enough to make most "insiders" or even bystanders think twice about speaking openly or risking disclosing their identity. While I think Nolan is being brave I also worry that he is being foolhardy. This is nasty stuff. And what is happening to Nolan is exactly the intimidation tactics I would expect from Doug Phillips.

[CloakNDagger]

Hero needs to seek advice from an attorney not affiliated with Vision Forum.

And watch out for ambulance chasers... they are out there. :x

She's already been abused by one lawyer. DP, Esq.

[hoipolloi]

Quite frankly, what is happening to Nolan right now is enough to make most "insiders" or even bystanders think twice about speaking openly or risking disclosing their identity. While I think Nolan is being brave I also worry that he is being foolhardy. This is nasty stuff. And what is happening to Nolan is exactly the intimidation tactics I would expect from Doug Phillips.

Considering what may be going on with BRADRICK!, I have to wonder if the "loyalty" to Doug Phillips Is A Tool is based on continuing VF idolatry (of which there is at least some, I'm sure) or if Doug has something on these people, including Nolan's family members, that makes them afraid to say anything.

BTW, Samurai Katz: thanks for taking one for the team! Hope that you eventually get 100% of the $0.99 purchase! :D

[CloakNDagger]

I think effective teaching, like, especially the Gossip message by Scott Brown is a MAJOR factor. That, and the whole wrong view of holiness as an outward appearance.

[SamuraiKatz]

Considering what may be going on with BRADRICK!, I have to wonder if the "loyalty" to Doug Phillips Is A Tool is based on continuing VF idolatry (of which there is at least some, I'm sure) or if Doug has something on these people, including Nolan's family members, that makes them afraid to say anything.

BTW, Samurai Katz: thanks for taking one for the team! Hope that you eventually get 100% of the $0.99 purchase! :D

I tried to purchase the article. Scribd said the purchase option was not available. I was most bummed as I wanted to lend my support to Nolan. He's a smart kid and I think his engineering degree will be put to good use. I scrolled through his older Facebook posts and found several entries about his work on a prototype labor monitor thingy.

[Palimpsest]

And watch out for ambulance chasers... they are out there. :x

She's already been abused by one lawyer. DP, Esq.

True. But Doug Phillips is not a typical lawyer. There are also many very good and ethical lawyers out there who are not ambulance chasers. They may act pro bono in cases like this. Please don't diss all lawyers.

[CloakNDagger]

True. But Doug Phillips is not a typical lawyer. There are also many very good and ethical lawyers out there who are not ambulance chasers. They may act pro bono in cases like this. Please don't diss all lawyers.

Not all lawyers, just specific ones! Guys that go around looking for high profile cases to make a name for themselves.

[CloakNDagger]

Haha! Now I understand what you meant by KISA! I went and searched through the posts - haven't finished reading 'em yet. Trying to piece together who KISA is myself as I can eliminate who it is by some of what he says such as not having been at certain events. Very funny.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Haha! Now I understand what you meant by KISA! I went and searched through the posts - haven't finished reading 'em yet. Trying to piece together who KISA is myself as I can eliminate who it is by some of what he says such as not having been at certain events. Very funny.

I have friends way more connected in VF than I am. A close friend wasn't thrilled to discover I read here, and was rather annoyed by KISA's shenanigans on the board. She knows who he is, was surprised I don't, and said it should be obvious from his handle. (She gave her word not to tell, and she is true to it.) I have driven my husband crazy wracking my brain trying to figure it out. I'd be ever so grateful if you share once you think you've got it.

[CloakNDagger]

I have friends way more connected in VF than I am. A close friend wasn't thrilled to discover I read here, and was rather annoyed by KISA's shenanigans on the board. She knows who he is, was surprised I don't, and said it should be obvious from his handle. (She gave her word not to tell, and she is true to it.) I have driven my husband crazy wracking my brain trying to figure it out. I'd be ever so grateful if you share once you think you've got it.

Isn't that against the TOS?

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Isn't that against the TOS?

Oh. Um, I have no idea. I know the mods who confirmed his identity couldn't tell. But I didn't think it was a problem if someone figures it out and shares their guess. But I could be wrong. I'll read the TOS.

[hoipolloi]

Isn't that against the TOS?

Modly note: Yes, it is against the TOS.

From the TOS (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15301):

* Any member who posts the real life identity of another FJ member, or compiles "clues" about a FJ member's identity and posts them here or anywhere else on the internet; including Facebook or Twitter, will be banned. Any member who participates in this type of "outing" or "doxing" will be banned. In addition to being banned and having the reason for your banning announced on FJ to general scorn and derision, be aware that you may also be subject to criminal prosecution. There are numerous state and federal laws against publishing private information for the purposes of harassing, stalking, causing financial harm, or inciting violence against others. So before you decide to indulge in some on-line stupidity, remember that there may be real life consequences. There is probably nothing anyone will post here that will offend you to so much that you will need to indulge in behavior that could result in a fine or jail time. Use common sense.

[Palimpsest]

I'm confused, if Nolan's manifesto isn't about Hero and Doug who is a tool, what is it about? Don't we all have Jen if we want to read about his abuse of power?

This is from the Preface which is visible without buying the document.

This document presents a worldly analysis of a “Christian†response to a “messy situationâ€.

I'm guessing it is about the silencing of the flock after the scandal broke not salacious details about Hero and Doug. The code of silence, resistance to outside authorities, and vicious penalties for breaking the terms of the BCA covenant - the Tool's version of Omertà, if you will. If I am correct, then my opinion of Nolan will go up. We do not need salacious details and to invade Hero's privacy.

As far as JensGems is concerned, Jen's alliance with "TW Eston" has destroyed her credibility. In my opinion. Look, there is a lot of accurate information there, but it is obscured by misinformation and paying off grudges.

I only believe the information I read at JensGems if it can be verified elsewhere. It is easy enough as Doug's intimidation, bullying, and threats have been well documented over the years. One example being the Allosaur. Another is the "armed men in black" threatening people accusation. I think that is true because it is supported by a link to a company doing professional Executive Security Training, which includes weapons training. Several VF "trained minions" wrote testimonials for the training on that site prior to the scandal.

If "TW Eston" is Peter Kershaw, and I think he is, he has his own ugly agenda. I would not trust him as far as I could spit. And I never spit.

[CloakNDagger]

As far as JensGems is concerned, Jen's alliance with "TW Eston" has destroyed her credibility. In my opinion. Look, there is a lot of accurate information there, but it is obscured by misinformation and paying off grudges.

Oddly enough, to the people in the community, I would say that Eston's alliance with Jen strains his credibility, and you are right to believe only what you can verify, but a good deal of what is there from Eston is true. Some stuff isn't 100% accurate, but I suspect that is mostly because of bad or slanted information supplied to him such as stuff related to the "Robinson" story, of which I'm not sure any one person has all of the details correct.

Some stuff that I could say about that would require that I show my hand so that will have to wait until the right time later on.

I only believe the information I read at JensGems if it can be verified elsewhere. It is easy enough as Doug's intimidation, bullying, and threats have been well documented over the years. One example being the Allosaur. Another is the "armed men in black" threatening people accusation. I think that is true because it is supported by a link to a company doing professional Executive Security Training, which includes weapons training. Several VF "trained minions" wrote testimonials for the training on that site prior to the scandal.

I don't think that the "men in black stuff was all that sinister. You've got a bunch if southerners who like their guns and such and realize that training is good, then this Holyfield guy is helping Doug with his services. A bunch of the young men realized how cool his job might be and were offered an opportunity to go to a training course in how to protect VIPs with the carrot out there that this might lead to future work opportunities. I think that afterwards there were several of them who were a bit disillusioned after the opportunities did not come.

I never saw the men-in-black threatening people, and if they did, of course that is sad and wrong, but I generally think that's been quite overblown.

[FlorenceHamilton]

"It is ironic that Doug both hides behind the beliefs that Christians shouldn't either sue or bring in outside authorities to judge a fellow believer and is willing to threaten to sue or use the legal authorities against other Christians. I don't know how his supporters explain that contradiction unless they believe that their leaders don't have to follow the same rules that they do."

If you read Bob Altemyer's Book "The Authoritarians", this is explained very well and demonstrated in his very legitimate academic studies. You can get the book free online. We have discussed it here at FJ before. I suggest that both young Nolan and CnD give it a read.

[debrand]

Isn't that against the TOS?

I think that it would also be unethical. For all his faults, we don't know his personal situation. Nolan might be brave enough to deal with his family's censor but that doesn't mean that KISA is. Besides, KISA hasn't hurt anyone and there is no reason to hurt him. He can keep his anonymity.

[debrand]

And watch out for ambulance chasers... they are out there. :x

She's already been abused by one lawyer. DP, Esq.

Lawyers are people, just like you and me. There are good and bad people who become lawyers. Some go into the profession because it is a way to help others; while others probably are out for themselves. This is true of almost every profession. Besides, it can't hurt to just talk to a lawyer. I've never needed legal counsel before but I am sure that some on this forum can give pointers on how to research a lawyer online.