Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 6

[debrand]

Maybe. But the speeding tickets are under Bradrick!'s (how does one punctuate that properly) father's name, not his.

Whoops. So Bradrick's dad was the speeder but there was also something to do with custody? I don't mean to be dense about this so I apologize.

Off subject but still on the thread's subject

I was reading about the time line of events on Spiritual Sounding Board and was struck with how different the situation was handled by those involved compared to how most people outside BCA would have handled it.

In 2009, Victim’s mother caught Doug Phillips and Victim having sexual-based chat sessions in the middle of the night. Doug, his wife, Beall, and Victim’s parents met. This was the first time Doug and Beall and Victim’s parents met together. Doug confessed to having romantic feelings for Victim, but there was no acknowledgement of any sexual impropriety. At the time, Victim did not disclose any sexual impropriety, but only the romantic feelings they shared together.

In October 2010, Beall Phillips was made aware of the adulterous nature of the relationship when Victim’s mother informed her that Doug and Victim had been kissing. Also in 2010, Doug Phillips sent Victim’s parents on a vacation, perhaps as an attempt to “buy†them off.

If my 21 year old adult child had an affair with a married person, I would talk to them and hope that my influence was strong enough to make them realize that they were doing something immoral that would hurt both them and innocent people. It would not occur to me to contact the man or his wife and have a meeting with them. I would want my child to avoid the other person as much as possible. It also seems cruel and degrading for Beall to have to sit in front of people and hear her husband say that he had romantic interest in another woman. This just seems like a weird way to handle the entire situation.

After Doug Phillips was caught trying to enter Victim’s bedroom window, there was another private meeting between Doug, Beall, and Victim’s parents.

Call the cops! The man's behavior has changed into that of a stalker. What is up with having multiple meetings as if they are discussing a wayward child's misbehavior with his teacher?

I still don't believe that Hero is Doug's only affair.

Doug and Beall were furious that these long-time friends came to confront Doug.

Christian Reconstructionists teach that adulterers should be stoned. Let me repeat that. They believe that people who cheat on their spouses should be publically killed by their community in a very slow agonizing way but for some reason, Doug Phillips should be above showing remorse or even a suggestion that he admit the full extent of his affair.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Once in the clutches of a Narcissistic abuser, a person cannot tell up from down. Part of what happens is that the abuser is not only the source of your pain, but also your survival. I survived this kind of abuse and have an advanced degree that is marketable and portable. It still took me a decade to get out, rebuild and see clearly.

Beall and Hero both have less resources and are still under the influence. I supect Hero is a little bit further on the road to recovery at the moment, but she has a long way to go. Beall may never make it out of the shadow. She has been under it longer, she has no sense that she broke any rules and she has a bunch of children with her abuser.

The blame sits squarely on DPIAT. Period.

[debrand]

Once in the clutches of a Narcissistic abuser, a person cannot tell up from down. Part of what happens is that the abuser is not only the source of your pain, but also your survival. I survived this kind of abuse and have an advanced degree that is marketable and portable. It still took me a decade to get out, rebuild and see clearly.

Beall and Hero both have less resources and are still under the influence. I supect Hero is a little bit further on the road to recovery at the moment, but she has a long way to go. Beall may never make it out of the shadow. She has been under it longer, she has no sense that she broke any rules and she has a bunch of children with her abuser.

The blame sits squarely on DPIAT. Period.

I agree.

[WonderingInWA]

Debrand, you are not dense! LOL. There are a lot of Bradricks!!

Peter was a minor and we found some public records on a Washington state courts website that shows he was involved in a guardianship issue from the time he was 13ish to the time he was 18ish. But that started the ball rolling to look into other records that other family members might have had and that brought up several in his father's name.

I think what we've figured out is that Peter was probably the recipient of some kind of inheritance $$ which was put into guardianship for him, and Michael, his father, probably has had a few speeding tickets.

Nothing very exciting, although one could hope...

[snarkopolis]

I completely disagree with JA's opinion here. Hero was not without agency. I came to my conclusion based on what was presented thus far, life experience, knowledge of fundamentalism, and observations on human behavior. Take the emotions out of it. Look at the timeline and you'll see that actions of Doug and Hero, especially in relation to the kids, are foul. I have no dog in this fight. As such, I will not bend to popular religious thought about keeping silent about Doug, nor brainlessly supporting an alleged adult victim. (An alleged victim who had enough intelligence to try and cover her tracks. Whether told to or not, hiding stuff implies knowledge of wrongdoing. )

That's the benefit of being an atheist. So I wouldn't call her a Jezebel. That doesn't fit. I read the story. I'd call her actions wrong. I hope she doesn't do something like this again. Time will tell. Doug is a snake and from my experience, probably beyond hope.

How are you blaming a young woman taught from a young age that Doug Phillips (is a Tool) and all other men are always right? That she is not to question his "Biblical" authority and all the tenets of this "Christianity" are set up so that men rule and women, er, girls, are to follow and not think? TO BE COERCED is not her fault. And to her family's credit, when they found out they put a stop to it. She was/is a survivor of Stockholm syndrome from her little cult. And that is what this is , a cult. Hiding stuff is not a sign of guilt but of shame because she is now damaged goods in the cult.

[nokidsmom]

If my 21 year old adult child had an affair with a married person, I would talk to them and hope that my influence was strong enough to make them realize that they were doing something immoral that would hurt both them and innocent people. It would not occur to me to contact the man or his wife and have a meeting with them. I would want my child to avoid the other person as much as possible. It also seems cruel and degrading for Beall to have to sit in front of people and hear her husband say that he had romantic interest in another woman. This just seems like a weird way to handle the entire situation.

Call the cops! The man's behavior has changed into that of a stalker. What is up with having multiple meetings as if they are discussing a wayward child's misbehavior with his teacher?

This. Calling up meetings with Beall and Hero's parents was a completely wrong and humiliating way to handle this. I can't imagine the pain Beall endured listening to her husband fess up to having feelings for another woman. And especially in the case of DPIAT trying to enter Hero's window, the cops should have been called not this "biblical solution" stuff or whatever they term their "solutions". Good grief.

[nokidsmom]

Once in the clutches of a Narcissistic abuser, a person cannot tell up from down. Part of what happens is that the abuser is not only the source of your pain, but also your survival. I survived this kind of abuse and have an advanced degree that is marketable and portable. It still took me a decade to get out, rebuild and see clearly.

Beall and Hero both have less resources and are still under the influence. I supect Hero is a little bit further on the road to recovery at the moment, but she has a long way to go. Beall may never make it out of the shadow. She has been under it longer, she has no sense that she broke any rules and she has a bunch of children with her abuser.

The blame sits squarely on DPIAT. Period.

Having an narcissistic abusive ex, I can attest to this. I was never so turned around in my head as when I was involved with him and I had resources that Beall and Hero didn't have. I actually sought counseling but even then it still took a very long time to see it all for what it was as in years after I dumped him. While I was not dependent on him materially, emotionally I was. Beall has the misfortune of being both economically and emotionally / mentally dependent on her abuser. I don't envy her at all.

[fundiefan]

Having an narcissistic abusive ex, I can attest to this. I was never so turned around in my head as when I was involved with him and I had resources that Beall and Hero didn't have. I actually sought counseling but even then it still took a very long time to see it all for what it was as in years after I dumped him. While I was not dependent on him materially, emotionally I was. Beall has the misfortune of being both economically and emotionally / mentally dependent on her abuser. I don't envy her at all.

When you're caught in the web of a narcissist it's almost as though you are living in two worlds. One, the real world, where you know right from wrong and what you should do and how people should behave and the other, the one you are in. Kind of like being trapped in a bubble. You know how life 'out there' is lived but you're not part of that world. You are in your own and it has its own rules.

While married to my ex I tolerated, did, said and experienced things that to this day continue to make me feel ill. I have to take responsibility for my choices and that creates so much mental and emotional conflict because while I knew right from wrong then, I still acted in ways that benefited him, regardless of my conscience or the cost. I can't make that work in my mind just yet because I'm not done berating myself for my actions over a decade of marriage - living in that bubble. And I have been out for four years.

That is just to say that the woman Doug had his affair with and his wife are trapped emotionally. They doubt their doubts and question their questions. Nothing is real or solid beneath their feet. Their conscience may tell them right from wrong but in the bubble created by the narcissist - Doug - nothing 'out there' matters. It's only what matters to him.

Knowing right from wrong doesn't always lead to correlating action or behavior.

Evidence of how focus and twisted their views are/were is the so called meetings between her parents, Doug and Beall. Who the hell even does that? Who considers that an option? Doug does. Doug was caught and his way to shift blame, regret, shame and fear was to have eveyone pulled into his bubble. They all sat in that bubble and let him run ripshod over them. Had it been dealt with in any other manner, he would have been steam rolled. He knows that so he used his life-long culture as a weapon. He no doubt pulled out terms like biblical, repent, sin, headship, protection -whatever key words used to control these people in the first place, and twisted them fit his needs. I am sure he led those meetings and I am sure he controlled evrything about them. Even her parents probably came out of them thinking they'd done wrong and needed to repent.

[Hane]

While married to my ex I tolerated, did, said and experienced things that to this day continue to make me feel ill. I have to take responsibility for my choices and that creates so much mental and emotional conflict because while I knew right from wrong then, I still acted in ways that benefited him, regardless of my conscience or the cost. I can't make that work in my mind just yet because I'm not done berating myself for my actions over a decade of marriage - living in that bubble. And I have been out for four years.

[OT] I've been out for nearly 15, and I still have PTSD nightmares in which I'm still married to him (even though he's been dead for two years) and trying to get the guts to stand up to him and tell him I'm getting a divorce.[/OT]

[nokidsmom]

[OT] I've been out for nearly 15, and I still have PTSD nightmares in which I'm still married to him (even though he's been dead for two years) and trying to get the guts to stand up to him and tell him I'm getting a divorce.[/OT]

I have been out for many years now but did continue to have nightmares in which he's around and I am trying to elude him (he stalked me too). They all had that recurring theme: getting away. He's been dead for almost 10 years now but the dreams did come back when I learned of his death 3 weeks afterward. Every so often, I still have one.

I also beat myself up for years because of decisions that I made in that relationship that compromised my values. Took a very long time to forgive myself.

[Hane]

nokidsmom and fundiefan, (((((hugs))))). I have vivid dreams, but have never had recurring dreams about anything except for Ex-Mr.-Hane-#2. And I was never physically abused (except for one time when he got me in a headlock during an argument. Why didn't I leave then?).

[nokidsmom]

Evidence of how focus and twisted their views are/were is the so called meetings between her parents, Doug and Beall. Who the hell even does that? Who considers that an option? Doug does. Doug was caught and his way to shift blame, regret, shame and fear was to have eveyone pulled into his bubble. They all sat in that bubble and let him run ripshod over them. Had it been dealt with in any other manner, he would have been steam rolled. He knows that so he used his life-long culture as a weapon. He no doubt pulled out terms like biblical, repent, sin, headship, protection -whatever key words used to control these people in the first place, and twisted them fit his needs. I am sure he led those meetings and I am sure he controlled evrything about them. Even her parents probably came out of them thinking they'd done wrong and needed to repent.

Agree. Dougie had everyone doubting themselves, including the parents. In another world, they would have told him to go jump and Beall would have kicked him to the curb. But no, they all sit down and talk about it and he gets some kind of validity from the very people he has harmed. Because he's still right you know. Gotta be right at all costs.

That is majorly effed up.

[happy atheist]

Part 7: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21372