Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[already hungover]

I do hope the gluttonous pleasure pig ends up in jail (if he really did something clearly criminal) and gets his very own bosom "friend" in the shower room...

While I sincerely hope that he gets his due, I can't wish prison rape on anybody. It's a real thing that happens and it's awful.

[debrand]

What exactly does the Vision Forum crew believe about getting legal authorities involved? It sounds like they believe that internal problems should be solved by the church leadership. I'm wondering how many of the current issues with Doug would have been resolved if the organization wasn't so dedicated to their fantasy of how the world works. In their world view, a Christian would automatically listen to the advice of other Christian men and repent. He'd be allowed back into the fold after sincerely admitting his wrong doing. There would be no need to ask for outside help or report him to the authorities. The fact that such a system seems created to hide abusive but charming individuals probably hasn't entered their imaginations.

I want to shake all those men and say, "Welcome to the real world." They couldn't discern that Doug was a egotistical ass who shouldn't be in power and that is why no one should be given absolute, unquestioning power over another person-including parents over children and husbands over wives.

[debrand]

I'm also terrible with faces and I agree.

I think that both Josh and one of his younger sisters(is it Justice or Liberty) resembles their dad.

[hoipolloi]

What exactly does the Vision Forum crew believe about getting legal authorities involved? It sounds like they believe that internal problems should be solved by the church leadership. I'm wondering how many of the current issues with Doug would have been resolved if the organization wasn't so dedicated to their fantasy of how the world works. In their world view, a Christian would automatically listen to the advice of other Christian men and repent. He'd be allowed back into the fold after sincerely admitting his wrong doing. There would be no need to ask for outside help or report him to the authorities. The fact that such a system seems created to hide abusive but charming individuals probably hasn't entered their imaginations.

I want to shake all those men and say, "Welcome to the real world." They couldn't discern that Doug was a egotistical ass who shouldn't be in power and that is why no one should be given absolute, unquestioning power over another person-including parents over children and husbands over wives.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

This goes double for Geoff Botkin, R.C. Sproul, Jr., Scott Brown, Voddie Baucham, & Kevin Swanson, all of whom sucked up to Doug Phillips for years, not to mention happily partaking of Dougie's scams for fleecing the sheeple, from conferences to cruises.

Shameless, irresponsible lying fuckwads - every last one of them.

[gustava]

If Dougie loses his law license.....?????

[hoipolloi]

If Dougie loses his law license.....?????

He may not have a license to lose. He's not listed as a member of the bar for either TX or VA.

Arguably, he should be stripped of his JD but I've never heard of that happening, as much as someone might deserve it!

[marmalade]

Wouldn't he have to be prosecuted for something to be disbarred? AFAIK, his shady dealings were not a result of him overtly practicing law. Of course, there could be manipulations that could come out later that show he was acting as an attorney and up for review with the Texas Bar Association (did he even bother to take the Bar in Texas, or is he just licensed in VA?).

[meda]

If he is licensed to practice law, he can be disbarred or censured by his state bar association even if he has not been convicted of anything, and even if his problematic conduct happened while he was not practicing law. It depends on the ethics rules of whatever state he may be licensed. A non practicing tool who styles himself "Esquire" should watch his ass.

[hoipolloi]

Wouldn't he have to be prosecuted for something to be disbarred? AFAIK, his shady dealings were not a result of him overtly practicing law. Of course, there could be manipulations that could come out later that show he was acting as an attorney and up for review with the Texas Bar Association (did he even bother to take the Bar in Texas, or is he just licensed in VA?).

He doesn't appear to be licensed in either state, at least not under the name of "Douglas Phillips." If he had taken the bar exam & passed it in either TX or VA he'd be listed, even if he were inactive, suspended for some reason, or retired. Some states even list deceased members of the bar. This doesn't mean that he isn't licensed & a member of the bar elsewhere but you'd have to know which state(s) in order to find his records.

State bar associations take this stuff seriously, as they should, so it's relatively easy now for the public to find out the status of any attorney in-state in order to see if (1) s/he is licensed to practice law in the state and (2) if s/he is in good standing.

Bottom line: if he doesn't have a license to practice law then it can't be taken away. He certainly could be prosecuted for other things, which VFM might do once they follow the money & figure out what happened to it all. IIRC, a felony conviction might also hamper if not prevent him from acquiring a law license in the future.

[Palimpsest]

He may not have a license to lose. He's not listed as a member of the bar for either TX or VA.

Arguably, he should be stripped of his JD but I've never heard of that happening, as much as someone might deserve it!

Funnily enough, I was just pondering on that. If he currently has a license anywhere then he could be disbarred if convicted of embezzlement. Or have his license revoked if his financial wheeler dealings are decided to be unethical under a legal review board. It is a much lower standard than in a court of law.

I suppose he used to have a license and let it lapse. He could apply again in whatever state he ends up, but with all the publicity he is getting now he could have a problem. (ETA. I see Meda already said this.)

Going back to Debrand's point about all the enablers around Doug, and whether or not they will want to involve the authorities. Chances are they don't want to. Chances are that they they may not have a choice as the fecal matter is hitting the proverbial revolving object. This has hit the mainstream press with all these rumors of financial malfeasance and the political manoevering by VF -- you bet the IRS is sniffing around. If they weren't already.

After my ramblings earlier about the fiduciary responsibilities of 501©3 boards, I looked back at Jen's "Doug Phillips' Balance Sheet" post on November 6th.

Jen states that the Board consists of Doug (President), His late Dad (VP unclear if he was replaced), Don Hart and Scott Brown (directors), and Josh Wean (CFO) and Jim Zes (Secretary). The last four are really on the hook if (allegedly :) ) Doug had his hand in the proverbial cookie jar. She also points to the sale of the Jonathan Park radio broadcast in 2011 from VF, Inc to VFM for $670, 833. That is freaking nuts and a clear conflict of interest! Did the board approve it? :pink-shock:

It may be that the selling off of VFM assets are part of a deal made by the Board of VFM with the IRS to make all this go away quickly and quietly. They may have twisted Doug's arm enough to get any $$ he (allegedly) embezzled returned already. We may never know how it all shakes out unless there is a public court case.

T.W. Eston (who is also toolish) may be absolutely correct that Doug will close VF, Inc in January. I will not be at all surprised if the Tool files for Chapter 11. He is smart enough to have squirreled away enough assets safely to support his family and set up again somewhere else, and Chapter 11 will just screw over his creditors.

Riding the ISB: I say that Doug will close VF, Inc, the signs are all on the wall. He will file for bankrupcy in the new year. He will trot off temporarily into the sunset and set up another small business somewhere. Beall will not divorce him, for reasons of her own. The kids will be OK because Doug has set up trusts for them that can't be touched. Give the Tool 3-5 years and he will appear again on FJ because he'll be making a tearful and penitent attempted comeback in the Fundie world.

Unlike T.W. Eston, I have no inside sources whatsoever, and this is all pure speculation. :lol:

Edited once to clarify that I'm speculating that a deal may have been made with the IRS to make this all go away quietly.

Edited twice to clarify that I, not TW Eston, first mentioned the possibility of Doug going for bankrupcy and Chapter 11.

And edited 3 times because I notice an egregious riffle!:D

[hoipolloi]

It may be that the selling off of VFM assets are part of a deal made by the Board of VFM to make all this go away quickly and quietly. They may have twisted Doug's arm enough to get any $$ he (allegedly) embezzled returned already. We may never know how it all shakes out unless there is a public court case.

T.W. Eston (who is also toolish) may be absolutely correct that Doug will close VF, Inc in January and claim to be bankrupt. I will not be at all surprised if the Tool files for Chapter 11. He is smart enough to have squirreled away enough assets safely to support his family and set up again somewhere else, and Chapter 11 will just screw over his creditors.

Riding the ISB: I say that Doug will close VF, Inc, the signs are all on the wall. He will file for bankrupcy in the new year. He will trot off temporarily into the sunset and set up another small business somewhere. Beall will not divorce him, for reasons of her own. The kids will be OK because Doug has set up trusts for them that can't be touched. Give the Tool 3-5 years and he will appear again on FJ because he'll be making a tearful and penitent attempted comeback in the Fundie world.

Unlike T.W. Eston, I have no inside sources whatsoever, and this is all pure speculation. :lol:

It may be speculation but, I think, your scenario is probable. Unless an entity like the IRS comes down on Doug Phillips Is A Tool with criminal charges, it's quite possible that VFM/VFI may have to let it all go. Lawsuits are very expensive & time-consuming.

Re: Eston. A deeply flawed if interesting source of information. Worships Rushdoony on the one hand (as did/does Doug Phillips Is A Tool), appears to have incredibly detailed (insider?) knowledge on the other. Maybe the old principle of "Takes one to know one" applies here.

[Elinor]

He may not have a license to lose. He's not listed as a member of the bar for either TX or VA.

Arguably, he should be stripped of his JD but I've never heard of that happening, as much as someone might deserve it!

Doug is a member of the bar in D.C.: http://www.dcbar.org/find_a_member/results.cfm

[hoipolloi]

Doug is a member of the bar in D.C.: http://www.dcbar.org/find_a_member/results.cfm

Thanks! Doug Phillips Is A Tool might be looking at a mid-life change of career!

:popcorn2:

[Jane_Goth]

Thanks! Doug Phillips Is A Tool might be looking at a mid-life change of career!

:popcorn2:

Lobbyist?

[Peas n carrots]

I doubt someone like Doug Phillips who is a tool doesn't have a Plan B. Did Dougie get admitted to the DC bar in recent times? Might be an interesting development...

[hoipolloi]

I doubt someone like Doug Phillips who is a tool doesn't have a Plan B. Did Dougie get admitted to the DC bar in recent times? Might be an interesting development...

Douglas W Phillips

Vision Forum

4719 Blanco Road

San Antonio TX 78212

Email: Email

Phone: 210-854-7196

Fax: 210-340-8577

Membership Status: Active

Disciplinary history: No

Date of admission: November 3, 1995

Nope. Interesting though that he's on (or has maintained) an active status. Here's the info on dues: http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/member ... lasses.cfm

[Mary C Doates]

Lobbyist?

FRC? They hired Smuggar, so I suspect they have pretty low standards. Perhaps Doug (Phillips who is a tool) can provide fashion tips. I'm sure he could organize a stylish, yet manly, holiday party for them.

[salex]

If he doesn't go to jail for something egregious, he will be back with a new ministry , regardless of if his wife leaves him, his kids support him or his name is besmirched. He is relatively small potatoes, so his stench isn't known nationally... and he has a method for making money that he knows works. Jim Bakker has a ministry. Robert Tilton has a ministry. They may not be as grand as they once were, but I suspect they don't have to shop at thrift stores or discount grocers. Mostly, I hope it damages the quiver full/patriarchal movement.

[WonderingInWA]

If he doesn't go to jail for something egregious, he will be back with a new ministry , regardless of if his wife leaves him, his kids support him or his name is besmirched. He is relatively small potatoes, so his stench isn't known nationally... and he has a method for making money that he knows works. Jim Bakker has a ministry. Robert Tilton has a ministry. They may not be as grand as they once were, but I suspect they don't have to shop at thrift stores or discount grocers. Mostly, I hope it damages the quiver full/patriarchal movement.

Right. It's fun to watch him fail and watch VF fail and the avalanche that will likely continue, but he's just one small manly man romping around in costume. It's the movement itself that I hope will fail, too.

[DomWackTroll]

Is that a young Doug is a tool?

Sure is, in 2003!

[gustava]

I checked Martindale/Hubbels and could find no attorney with his name that had credentials that seemed to fit him.

[marmalade]

I thought he was counsel for some homeschool group (I thought it was VA, but DC makes sense as a location) before he founded VF, but am surprised at the late admission date. He's not much younger than I, and had I gone straight from college to law school, could have graduated by 1989. IIRC, he didn't take a break, so he should have been done with law school by 1992 at the latest. Did he flunk the bar multiple times?

Frankly, that wouldn't surprise me. There isn't a section devoted to Slimy Snake Oil Salesmen. :lol:

[Rescinded and Mended]

About the clothing, I am going to go out on a limb here and assume it is the costumes that Vision Forum wants back, not personal clothing worn by the Phillips family. The money for those had to come from somewhere, and elaborate historical costumes such as those worn by Dougie and crew can be hugely expensive. Unless Doug found a personal fleet of seamstresses that were so enamored with him that they were willing to spend all their time sewing clothing for his historical romps and parties, at no charge to him, then the costumes were purchased with Vison Forum resources, and therefore do not belong to him. I hope he's not making things worse for himself and his family by trying to keep them.

[Kate]

So who picks up the mantle now that Dougie is disgraced/on hiatus? I think people who had the "tell me what to do" mindset required to worship/follow Doug in the first place would be a lot more likely to shift to a new leader than choose a whole new path.

Is this the point where Geoff makes his grand re-entry to prominence and regular website updates? Does Scott Brown have enough appeal to be the new leader of many? What about a darkhorses like that Swanson guy or Marcus Severn, or maybe one of the moderately know former interns?

I can't believe there aren't more than a few who will be jockeying for postition in the coming months. But, none that I can think of would do costumes and theatrics like Doug. Thoughts on who has what it takes to be next?

[WonderingInWA]

So who picks up the mantle now that Dougie is disgraced/on hiatus? I think people who had the "tell me what to do" mindset required to worship/follow Doug in the first place would be a lot more likely to shift to a new leader than choose a whole new path.

Is this the point where Geoff makes his grand re-entry to prominence and regular website updates? Does Scott Brown have enough appeal to be the new leader of many? What about a darkhorses like that Swanson guy or Marcus Severn, or maybe one of the moderately know former interns?

I can't believe there aren't more than a few who will be jockeying for postition in the coming months. But, none that I can think of would do costumes and theatrics like Doug. Thoughts on who has what it takes to be next?

Scott Brown and Peter Bradrick will take this as an opportunity to build up their NCFIC empire. I could easily see Peter in costume (his kids have civil war costumes IIRC, made by a friend, complete with wooden rifles). I don't think the Servens are costumers. What about Matt Chauncey? He loves costumes and his wife makes and sells patterns for them. He'll need something to do once he comes back from Africa, won't he?