Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[thoughtful]

The only reference I can find to the scandal on RC Jr.'s Facebook page:

"Amusing to see anonymous and pseudo-nominous internet critics demanding public full disclosure from others."

facebook.com/rcsprouljr/posts/10201117087588774

Well, RC Jr., I don't:

- take other people's money for worthless crap.

- spout a line about the sacred family, then screw around on my spouse.

- take expensive vacations and pass them off as my ministry.

- raise children to believe they will take over the world (if they are boys, that is), and not even prepare them for a normal work life.

- build a whole business and ministry around my ego.

- shift money around for reasons that might be problematic.

Heck, I don't even have a blog.

If there was "full disclosure" on me, you'd find nothing new, let alone anything scandalous or dishonest. I'm only anonymous on the Internet because I fear scary people, not because I am one.

Sorry we honest people are so boring, RC.

[nokidsmom]

Scott and Dougie arranged that marriage, so Scott owed it to his daughter to give Sippy a job once they moved from San Antonio. Again, I always assumed they moved from San Antonio to be nearer Kelly's parents as she started to have children (and God knows they wouldn't have been allowed to move to Washington where Sippy's family owns a ranch), but maybe there was more behind their move than just being closer to family.

I actually hope for Kelly's sake that moving to NC was for more than just being close to her family. Like maybe being around to help her out and do things like fix / replace water heaters. I think that Scott giving Petey a job was to ensure that his daughter and grandkids had food on the table. For all the patriarchal talk, maybe, just maybe Scott got a bit worried for her and the kids actually stepped in to help. Quietly, of course.

We have seen through this recent saga in Dougie's life that they don't practice all all what they preach. The same could be said for Scott regarding his daughter. He may have had a hand in arranging the marriage, and he transferred his authority to Peter, thinking all would be great with the manly man, but when it came down to it (meaning his daughter and grandkids' welfare) maybe he said the heck with it when faced with the reality of seeing his daughter's life with the manly man.

Maybe that's giving him too much credit, I don't know, but people who tell others how to live don't necessarily want to see that same life when it comes to loved ones. It's a different deal when it hits close to home.

And I still think that Kelly is the walking cautionary tale for all fundie SAHDs.

[Kate]

I actually hope for Kelly's sake that moving to NC was for more than just being close to her family. Like maybe being around to help her out and do things like fix / replace water heaters. I think that Scott giving Petey a job was to ensure that his daughter and grandkids had food on the table. For all the patriarchal talk, maybe, just maybe Scott got a bit worried for her and the kids actually stepped in to help. Quietly, of course.

We have seen through this recent saga in Dougie's life that they don't practice all all what they preach. The same could be said for Scott regarding his daughter. He may have had a hand in arranging the marriage, and he transferred his authority to Peter, thinking all would be great with the manly man, but when it came down to it (meaning his daughter and grandkids' welfare) maybe he said the heck with it when faced with the reality of seeing his daughter's life with the manly man.

Maybe that's giving him too much credit, I don't know, but people who tell others how to live don't necessarily want to see that same life when it comes to loved ones. It's a different deal when it hits close to home.

And I still think that Kelly is the walking cautionary tale for all fundie SAHDs.

As recently as this August, Doug was a featured speaker at Scott Brown's Fatherhood conference ncfic.org/blog/P60. Possible that Scott just saw him as a draw and didn't care about his private life until it became more public, but it seems to make Scott knowing the full extent in 2009 a little less likely.

(ETA, from the speaker list in late August: "The Secret of Happiness in the Home, Psalm 128, Doug Phillips" Oh, Doug, Doug, Doug, why do you make it so easy? )

[SamuraiKatz]

Well, RC Jr., I don't:

- take other people's money for worthless crap.

- spout a line about the sacred family, then screw around on my spouse.

- take expensive vacations and pass them off as my ministry.

- raise children to believe they will take over the world (if they are boys, that is), and not even prepare them for a normal work life.

- build a whole business and ministry around my ego.

- shift money around for reasons that might be problematic.

Heck, I don't even have a blog.

If there was "full disclosure" on me, you'd find nothing new, let alone anything scandalous or dishonest. I'm only anonymous on the Internet because I fear scary people, not because I am one.

Sorry we honest people are so boring, RC.

Thoughtful, I heart you. :-)

[MamaJunebug]

As recently as this August, Doug was a featured speaker at Scott Brown's Fatherhood conference ncfic.org/blog/P60. Possible that Scott just saw him as a draw and didn't care about his private life until it became more public, but it seems to make Scott knowing the full extent in 2009 a little less likely.

Meh...I'm not willing to give any of TPTB a pass on knowing or at very least suspecting something over all those years. Look at videos from a few years back - Hero is often featured with long , lingering camera shots. And since the Philips family were essentially the celebrities everywhere they appeared, its strains credulity that no one in the inner circle could be entirely oblivious to questionable behaviors.

Just the thoughts of one of the pseudo-nominous little people waaay on the outside.

[thoughtful]

Both the "who knew what when" conversations and the thread about men as big boys has been making me think about the father-son issues in these families.

It strikes me there is seems to be a pattern of ruthless, rigid, power-hungry, secretive men raising sons to be innocent, hero-worshipping boys playing at being brave and manly.

I suppose it varies from one family to another when or if the son is let in on the truth.

As ever, what patriarchal crap does to wives and daughters is horrific, but what it does to sons is no picnic either.

And thanks, Samuraikatz. You make me blush. :embarrassed:

[Cleopatra7]

Both the "who knew what when" conversations and the thread about men as big boys has been making me think about the father-son issues in these families.

It strikes me there is seems to be a pattern of ruthless, rigid, power-hungry, secretive men raising sons to be innocent, hero-worshipping boys playing at being brave and manly.

I suppose it varies from one family to another when or if the son is let in on the truth.

As ever, what patriarchal crap does to wives and daughters is horrific, but what it does to sons is no picnic either.

And thanks, Samuraikatz. You make me blush. :embarrassed:

As with sex, if you have to talk about being manly all the time, you probably aren't, hence all of the ridiculous dress up and fake military/cop organizations in VF and ATI. I wonder if the men/boys who escape this lifestyle leave with confused ideas about manhood, especially since masculinity in this sub-culture revolves almost entirely around family size and the extent to which a man can control his family/underlings.

[Marian the Librarian]

Meh...I'm not willing to give any of TPTB a pass on knowing or at very least suspecting something over all those years. Look at videos from a few years back - Hero is often featured with long , lingering camera shots. And since the Philips family were essentially the celebrities everywhere they appeared, it strains credulity that no one in the inner circle could be entirely oblivious to questionable behaviors.

Just the thoughts of one of the pseudo-nominous little people waaay on the outside.

I absolutely agree - undoubtedly, everyone involved tiptoed around this elephant in the living room for a long time.

As to the long, lingering camera shots - I find it very interesting that these comprise the only significant web presence of our Hero. Other than VF-related media, she is conspicuous by her Internet absence - and believe me, I've been doing some deep digging. With the exception of two (count 'em) photos on a fellow fundie's Instagram page (all credit to the links in the Greece trip thread, btw), and her previously-discussed eBay site, our Hero evidences no Facebook page, no Pinterest board, no SAHD blog, no articles contributed to other big-fundie-name websites - nothing that would put her on par with the hundreds of young women in her peer group, for whom these have become (dare I use the word?) normative means of communication.

I wonder if it was Doug pressuring her to lay low; or, more likely, her own desire to draw as little additional attention to herself as possible. Either way, my heart aches for her, and I hope she's getting the help she needs.

[danvillebelle]

I put that pic at 1990 or so. There was a brief fad of making bridesmaids' dresses from floral polished chintz (fabric traditionally used for bedspreads, slipcovers, curtains, pillow covers, etc.). I wore something frighteningly similar for my youngest sister's wedding.

:::::raises hand sheepishly:::::: Married in 1992, guilty, though mine were NOT that garish and loud. Truly.

[Cleopatra7]

I absolutely agree - undoubtedly, everyone involved tiptoed around this elephant in the living room for a long time.

As to the long, lingering camera shots - I find it very interesting that these comprise the only significant web presence of our Hero. Other than VF-related media, she is conspicuous by her Internet absence - and believe me, I've been doing some deep digging. With the exception of two (count 'em) photos on a fellow fundie's Instagram page (all credit to the links in the Greece trip thread, btw), and her previously-discussed eBay site, our Hero evidences no Facebook page, no Pinterest board, no SAHD blog, no articles contributed to other big-fundie-name websites - nothing that would put her on par with the hundreds of young women in her peer group, for whom these have become (dare I use the word?) normative means of communication.

I wonder if it was Doug pressuring her to lay low; or, more likely, her own desire to draw as little additional attention to herself as possible. Either way, my heart aches for her, and I hope she's getting the help she needs.

From what I understand, Hero comes from a very humble background. This, combined with her status as a "protected" SAHD, may mean that she has no access to the Internet, and has no digital footprint to examine. If our hunches are correct, her entire life was probably centered around the Phillips family and now she is disgraced and left with nothing, materially, emotionally, spiritually, and in terms of education.

[Hane]

:::::raises hand sheepishly:::::: Married in 1992, guilty, though mine were NOT that garish and loud. Truly.

We bridesmaids got LOTS of compliments from gentlemen of the WWII generation, as the dresses were similar to what girls wore back when those men were dating. Still, the dresses were VERY flowery. My middle sister and I were happy to have gotten through the entire wedding reception without anyone sitting on our laps after mistaking us for boudoir chairs.

[Marian the Librarian]

From what I understand, Hero comes from a very humble background. This, combined with her status as a "protected" SAHD, may mean that she has no access to the Internet, and has no digital footprint to examine. If our hunches are correct, her entire life was probably centered around the Phillips family and now she is disgraced and left with nothing, materially, emotionally, spiritually, and in terms of education.

Exactly. She was the ideal victim. I have no doubt Doug's "grooming" behaviors went on for years.

I really, really hope Doug is called to account for his actions by the appropriate civil authorities. :evil:

[gustava]

As recently as this August, Doug was a featured speaker at Scott Brown's Fatherhood conference ncfic.org/blog/P60. Possible that Scott just saw him as a draw and didn't care about his private life until it became more public, but it seems to make Scott knowing the full extent in 2009 a little less likely.

(ETA, from the speaker list in late August: "The Secret of Happiness in the Home, Psalm 128, Doug Phillips" Oh, Doug, Doug, Doug, why do you make it so easy? )

Am I the only FJer whose mind goes immediately into the gutter when I read the bolded?? Regardless, guess I should wander over to the prayer closet.

Psalm 128

A song of ascents.

1 Blessed are all who fear the Lord,

who walk in obedience to him.

2 You will eat the fruit of your labor;

blessings and prosperity will be yours.

3 Your wife will be like a fruitful vine

within your house;

your children will be like olive shoots

around your table.

4 Yes, this will be the blessing

for the man who fears the Lord.

5 May the Lord bless you from Zion;

may you see the prosperity of Jerusalem

all the days of your life.

6 May you live to see your children’s children—

peace be on Israel.

[Dandruff]

There was a VFer named Peter

Who liked to play follow the leader

He was manly and bold

But left his wife cold

When she needed a new water heater

[SamuraiKatz]

The only reference I can find to the scandal on RC Jr.'s Facebook page:

"Amusing to see anonymous and pseudo-nominous internet critics demanding public full disclosure from others."

facebook.com/rcsprouljr/posts/10201117087588774

[DomWackTroll]

More clarifying from Doug Wilson, but as always he just makes a bigger mess of things:

"Suppose a nubile young ninny put on a halter top and miniskirt and walked across the bad part of town at two in the morning. If I came to the conclusion that she was being a buxom little idiot, this would in no way be a defense of the evil dudes who saw something they wanted, and an easy opportunity for getting it. No, I would want a police chief to treat them like the evil men they are, but liberals would actually rather vote in a mayor like De Blasio. Maybe they want things to get really dangerous again so they can resume their much-missed 'take back the night' rallies. Candles, not cops!"

dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/vision-forum-and-blaming-the-victim.html

[thoughtful]

More clarifying from Doug Wilson, but as always he just makes a bigger mess of things:

"Suppose a nubile young ninny put on a halter top and miniskirt and walked across the bad part of town at two in the morning. If I came to the conclusion that she was being a buxom little idiot, this would in no way be a defense of the evil dudes who saw something they wanted, and an easy opportunity for getting it. No, I would want a police chief to treat them like the evil men they are, but liberals would actually rather vote in a mayor like De Blasio. Maybe they want things to get really dangerous again so they can resume their much-missed 'take back the night' rallies. Candles, not cops!"

dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/vision-forum-and-blaming-the-victim.html

:wtf:

No, wtf is not enough. This requires:

wK9odsWwfIo

[gardenvarietycitizen]

FRC? They hired Smuggar, so I suspect they have pretty low standards. Perhaps Doug (Phillips who is a tool) can provide fashion tips. I'm sure he could organize a stylish, yet manly, holiday party for them.

Perhaps ol' Doug "the tool" Phillips should just go get a job in theater for real! He seems to be quite into costuming and bombast, after all.

And then there's this epic photo:

Yow. :shock:

How did the solid pink girl in front manage to get lucky and escape the uniform? They run out of horrible bedspreads or what?

Kids are cute, but wow, that pattern. Just so MUCH of that pattern.

I put that pic at 1990 or so. There was a brief fad of making bridesmaids' dresses from floral polished chintz (fabric traditionally used for bedspreads, slipcovers, curtains, pillow covers, etc.). I wore something frighteningly similar for my youngest sister's wedding.

Aha. Yeah that pic is at a wedding, isn't it? That would be about right. I remember some website devoted to snarking on such dresses - most were people sending in their own pics, it was all in good fun.

Still, solid pink girl sure did escape well!

[WonderingInWA]

Perhaps ol' Doug "the tool" Phillips should just go get a job in theater for real! He seems to be quite into costuming and bombast, after all.

Yow. :shock:

How did the solid pink girl in front manage to get lucky and escape the uniform? They run out of horrible bedspreads or what?

Kids are cute, but wow, that pattern. Just so MUCH of that pattern.

Aha. Yeah that pic is at a wedding, isn't it? That would be about right. I remember some website devoted to snarking on such dresses - most were people sending in their own pics, it was all in good fun.

Still, solid pink girl sure did escape well!

The boys seemed to have escaped the color scheme. Little boy on left in red/white/blue and older boy on right in some kind of uniform (what is that - is he a security guard?).

The dresses remind me of when Fraulein Maria makes the Von Trapp children play clothes from the old draperies. But these are harder on the eye.

[DomWackTroll]

Perhaps ol' Doug "the tool" Phillips should just go get a job in theater for real! He seems to be quite into costuming and bombast, after all.

Yow. :shock:

How did the solid pink girl in front manage to get lucky and escape the uniform? They run out of horrible bedspreads or what?

Kids are cute, but wow, that pattern. Just so MUCH of that pattern.

Aha. Yeah that pic is at a wedding, isn't it? That would be about right. I remember some website devoted to snarking on such dresses - most were people sending in their own pics, it was all in good fun.

Still, solid pink girl sure did escape well!

Why do I get the feeling that the idea here was: "Let's do as the Royal Family does and have little girl bridesmaids instead of adult bridesmaids"? And why do I get the feeling that the idea was Doug's, not Beall's?

[hoipolloi]

Why do I get the feeling that the idea here was: "Let's do as the Royal Family does and have little girl bridesmaids instead of adult bridesmaids"? And why do I get the feeling that the idea was Doug's, not Beall's?

Probably because this is what happened at many of the VF-promoted weddings like the Brown-Bradrick nuptials:

ETA: and the Justin Turley/Melissa Keen wedding, two years after Kelly & Peter:

ETAA: AND Philip Bradrick & Katie Valenti, three years after Kelly & Peter:

[WonderingInWA]

Probably because this is what happened at many of the VF-promoted weddings like the Brown-Bradrick nuptials:

Yep, and I think I counted 25 "flower girls" in this photo. Princess Kelly also had something like 12 bridesmaids that were more her age.

[Marian the Librarian]

Yep, and I think I counted 25 "flower girls" in this photo. Princess Kelly also had something like 12 bridesmaids that were more her age.

[nelliebelle1197]

Why do I get the feeling that the idea here was: "Let's do as the Royal Family does and have little girl bridesmaids instead of adult bridesmaids"? And why do I get the feeling that the idea was Doug's, not Beall's?

Are these actually the bridesmaids/flower girls or are these Bill Potter's unfortunately dressed children?

ETA: I should say UNFORTUNATE children, period, for having to grow up with that idiot as a parent.

[WonderingInWA]

Yes, and there are quite a few recognizable gals in that photo. Among them Katie Valenti Bradrick (married to Petey's brother), Blair Brown Tsantles (married to a teenager 6 years her junior who is still working on cleaning up his unfortunate complexion), at least one or two of Petey's sisters, and then Dougie's nanny there at the far right end.