Bates Wedding Part 2: Zach N Whitney

[singsingsing]

These things may very well not be red flags to Whitney, though. Not everyone is raised/brainwashed in the fundie lifestyle, many people choose it. The idea of dressing to some arbitrary standard of modesty, of looking different and setting yourself apart from the world, of feeling like part of an exclusive club of other righteous people, and having lots and lots of babies, can seem extremely appealing to people who are drawn to it, before they truly understand the realities of the lifestyle. I would guess Whitney has chosen or is choosing these things with her eyes wide open and may have even chased after Zach because the fundie lifestyle seemed romantic to her. The fact that she's still working at Sonic is a great sign, though - it means that she's not becoming an extremist. I still think she and Zach will basically be fundie lite, whether or not she goes back to wearing pants.

[socalrules]

I have a cynical prediction. I agree that they are young and in love and perhaps Whitney did not fully realize what she's gotten herself into. In a few years, once the honeymoon phase has ended, she'll grown increasingly unhappy, and since she likely wasn't raised to be a submissive helpmeet, she'll have no problem ending the marriage. So Zach will end up divorced, which will show his younger siblings what happens when you have unchaperoned relationships with non-parent approved people. In the meantime, Chad and Erin will continue to be all smiles and perfect. I hope I'm wrong though.

I would have to agree. Whitney may be from a Religious home but I have no doubt that if she wanted out of her marriage, her family wouldn't have a problem supporting her. The fact that she was not a SAHD and seemed to have her own life shows how different her family is from husband's family. She won't be stuck like women that married in the Gothard world. She will always have options. If anything, this is a reason I think that Zach may be more accepting of change. He knows if she is unhappy she can easily leave. If he wanted a Gothard girl, he would never have had anything to do with Whitney. Zach may even see Whitney as his gateway out of the Gothard world. I am sure her family would be happy to help him become more mainstream. They may show him that you can be religious but still not confirm to the stupid Gothard rules.

[Coconut Flan]

I do think Erin may very well tire of the lifestyle too though,especially the having baby after baby part.Leaky boobs,stretch marks,constant morning sickness,waddling around hugely pregnant,screaming,crying babies and toddler temper tantrums,lack of sleep,etc. all wear on one.

This. I don't see Erin, I don't cook, having the stamina and earthiness to handle very many babies. One or two spaced out over the next six years is about all I see her being able to handle without falling to pieces. I think she's in the wrong lifestyle for her personality. I hope she isn't already pregnant. She needs more time than the average fundie just to settle into marriage.

[scc12]

I hope they read here and if they do,I would tell them to do what my Pastor says,and be a Berean search the scriptures, and decide for yourself what you get out of it.

God isn't interested in anyone building His army.In fact He said it was better not to marry.If He were interested in building an army for Himself,then marrying and having kids would one of the Ten Commandments.God can take care of Himself,tyvm. :)

Just some thoughts.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I would have to agree. Whitney may be from a Religious home but I have no doubt that if she wanted out of her marriage, her family wouldn't have a problem supporting her. The fact that she was not a SAHD and seemed to have her own life shows how different her family is from husband's family. She won't be stuck like women that married in the Gothard world. She will always have options. If anything, this is a reason I think that Zach may be more accepting of change. He knows if she is unhappy she can easily leave. If he wanted a Gothard girl, he would never have had anything to do with Whitney. Zach may even see Whitney as his gateway out of the Gothard world. I am sure her family would be happy to help him become more mainstream. They may show him that you can be religious but still not confirm to the stupid Gothard rules.

Yes, good point. Whitney's mom owns her own hairstyling salon and wore a sleeveless dress to the wedding. She would support her daughters choice to leave. And it does say a lot that Zach chose her knowing this even though he was raised to pick a helpmeet, someone groomed to believe women are to be homemakers.

I think they'll be Christian, she might be a SAHM which is fine and normal, and they will do normal family activities with their three children.

[Aggie2145]

These things may very well not be red flags to Whitney, though. Not everyone is raised/brainwashed in the fundie lifestyle, many people choose it. The idea of dressing to some arbitrary standard of modesty, of looking different and setting yourself apart from the world, of feeling like part of an exclusive club of other righteous people, and having lots and lots of babies, can seem extremely appealing to people who are drawn to it, before they truly understand the realities of the lifestyle. I would guess Whitney has chosen or is choosing these things with her eyes wide open and may have even chased after Zach because the fundie lifestyle seemed romantic to her. The fact that she's still working at Sonic is a great sign, though - it means that she's not becoming an extremist. I still think she and Zach will basically be fundie lite, whether or not she goes back to wearing pants.

If she's working at Sonic, chances are high that she is already wearing pants. I been a Sonic customer for years and have never seen an employee in a skirt.

Also, answers to is a very common introduction in my part of the south. As in "Hello, let me introduce you to my husband Robert. He answers to Bob, Bobby or Skillet."

[singsingsing]

Also, answers to is a very common introduction in my part of the south. As in "Hello, let me introduce you to my husband Robert. He answers to Bob, Bobby or Skillet."

It's common in Canada too, at least where I'm from. Like someone will ask me if I prefer [full name] or [nickname] and I'll say, "I answer to both." As far as I know, I'm not a dog. :)

[church_of_dog]

It's common in Canada too, at least where I'm from. Like someone will ask me if I prefer [full name] or [nickname] and I'll say, "I answer to both." As far as I know, I'm not a dog. :)

Ahem. I consider myself to be a proud member of the canine family.

(In other online locations, "Church of Dog" got shortened to "Dog" and I have "answered to" that name for over ten years now. :lol: )

That said, I agree with the above that "answers to" is not that uncommon or troubling a phrase.

[thekate]

Or not a dog, as the case may be.

[Cora Persephona]

Yes, good point. Whitney's mom owns her own hairstyling salon and wore a sleeveless dress to the wedding. She would support her daughters choice to leave. And it does say a lot that Zach chose her knowing this even though he was raised to pick a helpmeet, someone groomed to believe women are to be homemakers.

I think they'll be Christian, she might be a SAHM which is fine and normal, and they will do normal family activities with their three children.

I completely agree with the bolded above. I think that, at this moment, for Whitney is fun playing pretend in order to fit in with the inlaws, but after a while it will get old and they will go their own way. I don't see them having a ton of kids (hey, maybe they'll even adopt one or two instead of getting pregnant every 2 years, who knows?). And I think that Zach will enjoy the freedom of having a regular Christian family.

[nokidsmom]

I'm going the other way with the story and go Zach was trying to drink the kool aide but the failed courtship completed his disenchantment with all things ATI and parent controlled. He went out and found his own girl friend thank you very much parents. He and Whitney have decided to play along with his parents when around them to keep the peace, but intend to go their own way. As time goes along and more siblings break free, Zach will more openly live life as he pleases. I think he picked Whitney with full knowledge her life was different from his and that's what he wants. I may be 100% off, but it's what I want to think.

If Zach really wanted an ATI-immersed SAHD, there would be plenty of options out there and his parents would have by no means discouraged him either. The courtship fail could have been a factor in going for a Gothard girl, but no, he went for another (maybe) fundie-lite with some things going for herself which is what he courted the first time around. I think he knew exactly what he wanted here. Also perhaps living amongst a bunch of other ATI women (mom and sisters) made him decide that's not what he wanted for himself.

[anjulibai]

If Zach really wanted an ATI-immersed SAHD, there would be plenty of options out there and his parents would have by no means discouraged him either. The courtship fail could have been a factor in going for a Gothard girl, but no, he went for another (maybe) fundie-lite with some things going for herself which is what he courted the first time around. I think he knew exactly what he wanted here. Also perhaps living amongst a bunch of other ATI women (mom and sisters) made him decide that's not what he wanted for himself.

ITA. I think Zach wants a little more out of life.

[singsingsing]

Zach's first girlfriend was fundie lite and was a talented musician who toured the country with her family/band. His second girlfriend he met on his own, while she was working (and wearing pants!!). So yeah, I'd say he wasn't looking for the stereotypical perfect fundie princess. He easily could have landed one of those, being the oldest son in a well known ATI family.

[0 kids n not countin]

I'm glad he's happy that Michaela is courting, but seriously, the grammatical & spelling errors in that post (as well as other posts) are just atrocious! :snooty:

[Palimpsest]

Zach's first girlfriend was fundie lite and was a talented musician who toured the country with her family/band. His second girlfriend he met on his own, while she was working (and wearing pants!!). So yeah, I'd say he wasn't looking for the stereotypical perfect fundie princess. He easily could have landed one of those, being the oldest son in a well known ATI family.

I would not say the Reiths are fundie lite. Sarah agreed to courtship, the Reith performance schtick is very fundie, they're quite steeped in the Koolade, and they've been noticed fellowshipping with most of our usual suspects. Only the younger siblings of a larger family are in the band. They may appear to be less fundie because Southern Raised Bluegrass a) has a lot of talent and b) toe-tapping bluegrass music is not like the obscure hymns and dirges that most of our usual fundie families prefer to perform. They are probably the most talented traveling Fundie family band out there. Not that there is a whole lot of competition from the Maxwells! :lol:

I think it is a good thing that Zach didn't end up with a typical fundie and hope he and Whitney gently drift away from ATI and Gothard without a complete schism with the Bateses. And I hope they improve their grasp of the English language as they do so.

[bucherwurm]

A thought regarding the English- they are from the south. Stereotypical Southern people don't usually speak in proper English. I think they are more "southern" and while they may have been taught correctly, they type like they speak.

The picture of Michael on their blog (the one with just her and Whitney) is gorgeous.

[lilith]

I agree that the Reiths fall far closer to fundie than fundie lite.

They are homeschooled, skirts only, IFB, adult siblings live at home til marriage, their performances are considered a "ministry" - where is the lite in that?

In my opinion Zach fell for one of the first pretty girls he got to spend time with after reaching courting age, proposed courtship in a way that would have been very embarrassing for her to refuse, then got knocked back cause she's way out of his league. That would have made Whitney's ability to show interest in him and even gently pursue him very attractive.

[freethemall]

A thought regarding the English- they are from the south. Stereotypical Southern people don't usually speak in proper English. I think they are more "southern" and while they may have been taught correctly, they type like they speak.

The picture of Michael on their blog (the one with just her and Whitney) is gorgeous.

I agree with you in that I agree that a lot of people in the South talk and write in a way that ignores grammar completely and that while it may be taught once (i.e glanced over in a reading material that explains the correct way) it is not reinforced. The parents themselves speak in an ungrammatical way and set horrible examples as both parents and teachers. I doubt Zach and Whitney are even aware of what the correct way to say "Zach and me" would be.

It's hard for me to criticize their grammar, atrocious as it is, because I see confusion between their/there/they're and your/you're on FJ and other forums and social media all the time. Being anal about grammar, you just have to ignore a lot of people's mistakes or else you turn into a full-on grammar Nazi.

[Luisainlondon1]

I agree that the Reiths fall far closer to fundie than fundie lite.

They are homeschooled, skirts only, IFB, adult siblings live at home til marriage, their performances are considered a "ministry" - where is the lite in that?

In my opinion Zach fell for one of the first pretty girls he got to spend time with after reaching courting age, proposed courtship in a way that would have been very embarrassing for her to refuse, then got knocked back cause she's way out of his league. That would have made Whitney's ability to show interest in him and even gently pursue him very attractive.

Sorry for asking that, but I thought girls who reach courting age tell their fathers when they fancy a guy :? So if a guy asks a father to court his daughter he can turn down the guy.

I get your point and I had the same feeling when I watched that embarrassing scene when Zach asked Sarah. But I thought she must have felt something for him, too, otherwise her father wouldn't have agreed to court her.

[lilith]

Sorry for asking that, but I thought girls who reach courting age tell their fathers when they fancy a guy :? So if a guy asks a father to court his daughter he can turn down the guy.

I get your point and I had the same feeling when I watched that embarrassing scene when Zach asked Sarah. But I thought she must have felt something for him, too, otherwise her father would have agreed to court her.

Girls generally aren't meant to say anything til the guy has approached her father and he has spoken to her. Some fathers tell their daughters right away, some (Pa Keller comes to mind) communicate extensively with the guy before they inform their daughter of his interest. I don't know what happened with the Reiths, but it's almost certain that Zach first approached the father. He may have given Zach permission to ask Sarah to court without notifying her - she seemed like she was the only one who didn't know what was going on, it looked like her sisters were in on it but she wasn't.

[singsingsing]

I thought Anna had told her father that she was interested in Josh. I know I've heard of other fundie girls doing that - their parents will ask them if they're interested in any specific guys and they'll tell them who the Lord is placing on their heart or whatever.

[Luisainlondon1]

Didn't also Kelly mention that Michael/Michaella told them she was interested in Brandon?

[lilith]

I thought Anna had told her father that she was interested in Josh. I know I've heard of other fundie girls doing that - their parents will ask them if they're interested in any specific guys and they'll tell them who the Lord is placing on their heart or whatever.

She did, and he told her to pray about it. He'd already been approached by Josh and was communicating with him, but he didn't tell her that.

[lilith]

Didn't also Kelly mention that Michael/Michaella told them she was interested in Brandon?

Kelly says that they knew Michal/ael/aela/aella had noticed Brandon, whatever the hell that means.

[NellieBell]

Love love love the pics on Zach's blog. The pics are authentic and you can tell by the body language that Michaela really likes Whit & vice versa. I wish Michaela the very best. She deserves it. Although the fairytale them amongst the ATI men does creep me out a bit. I will cut them some slack since they don't have a large pool of romantic themes to pull from. I certainly can't see Gothturd tossing out original and modern courting ideas. :wink-kitty: