Doug Phillips (is a tool) resigning!

[WonderingInWA]

James McDonald getting all distance-y on Facebook: "Any man who believes that men are inherently 'better' than women has never met my bride. God's decreed polity in spheres of jurisdiction does not elevate the worth, dignity, or gifts of one gender over another."

facebook.com/james.mcdonald1/posts/10202158557383906

He's divorced from wife #1, isn't he? Just wondering what happened there...

[SamuraiKatz]

James McDonald getting all distance-y on Facebook: "Any man who believes that men are inherently 'better' than women has never met my bride. God's decreed polity in spheres of jurisdiction does not elevate the worth, dignity, or gifts of one gender over another."

facebook.com/james.mcdonald1/posts/10202158557383906

Sounds like the rats are abandoning the sinking ship....

[TrueRebel1]

This is just a theory here, but what if Doug the Tool fathered a child by this mystery woman who has connections (secular or religious or both) that go way above Doug the Tool's? This could be a case of mutually assured destruction if Doug the Tool outs the mystery woman or the mystery woman comes forward. It's possible that the woman has a lot of dirt on Doug the Tool, VF Ministries, VF Inc, or all 3.

I know it sounds like a soap opera storyline, but stranger things have happened.

You know, this sounds plausible. If Doug was actually in a lengthy, affectionate relationship, I could certainly see him confiding ministry "secrets" to her, thinking that they'd never come to light.

[HereticHick]

FINALLY, the story makes the San Antonio news: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/ ... 961327.php

[WonderingInWA]

FINALLY, the story makes the San Antonio news: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/ ... 961327.php

Dougie, who is a Tool, was probably fairly grateful for this one being as brief as it is.

Can't remember where I read it today, but how did I miss that Dougie's father ran for US President 3 times? He must be rolling over in his grave.

[twin2]

Hey INTERNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since you are no longer being supervised by his highness, the manliest of menz.............. why not sign up for your own account and join the party????????

And share the pics of the Greece trip while you are at it!! Seriously, your leader has failed you, come on over to the dark side and play!! You'll have fun, I promise!!

[RosyDaisy]

Not totally sure (and Mr. No isn't aroundt to ask right now, he would know) but I think that's a code that prevents bots from crawling the site or page.

That's exactly what it is....code to prevent bots from mining email addresses and other information from a website. I do this kind of thing for a living.

[Mary C Doates]

And share the pics of the Greece trip while you are at it!! Seriously, your leader has failed you, come on over to the dark side and play!! You'll have fun, I promise!!

But...but..there are women here, with vaginas and independent opinions and everything! Doug (Phillips who is a tool) has probably convinced them them that interacting with women would result in inappropriate non-sexual relationships.

Oh, wait...

Doug Phillips, still a tool.

[hoipolloi]

Also, the CFO's (apparently) ex wife has a beef with Vision Forum. She was close to the CFO and may know a lot about VF's inner workings.

tx.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20100831_0007780.TX.htm/qx

Holy Toledo! :o Shades of the Pearls!

This couple were one of Doug Phillips Is A Tool's regular blog subjects a few years back: visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2004/08/822/

The (ex)husband was still CFO of VF Ministries as of a year ago: http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2 ... 5f98-9.pdf

[realist51]

Holy Toledo! :o Shades of the Pearls!

This couple were one of Doug Phillips Is A Tool's regular blog subjects a few years back: visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2004/08/822/

The (ex)husband was still CFO of VF Ministries as of a year ago: http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2 ... 5f98-9.pdf

Holy Cannoli! I know you all have been talking about the kind of abuse that goes on in fundie families, but I never saw hard evidence like this! (From the court document.) And the wooden spoon makes an appearance again!

Consequently, the finding of family violence against Josh rests on the eyewitness testimony of Josh's methods of discipline. The witness testimony is consistent that Josh's spankings were always directed at the children's buttocks, and that he usually used a wooden kitchen spoon. Josh explained that his use of the spoon was so that the children did not associate his hand or touch with discipline. Sarah conceded that, when he spanked, Josh never was angry or lost his temper.

Sarah testified that Josh's spankings always left a mark because he felt that "if it didn't hurt, then it didn't count." She testified that there were always "welts," and at their severest were purple. The children, especially J.M.W., would cry sometimes in anticipation of a spanking. Sarah further testified that Josh began spanking each child when they were three or four months old--as soon as they were old enough to display "willful behavior." Josh agreed that reasons a spanking might occur included arguing, fighting, disobeying, and lying, and Sarah also stated Josh would spank them if they whined. She stated that Josh never used any other type of discipline other than spanking. She also testified--and Josh conceded--that spankings had occurred multiple times during a day as well as multiple days in a row. She added that if it were her decision the children would still have been spanked, but not nearly as often.

[zandria]

Gosh, I would have cut and pasted the abuse allegations if I'd known they'd be of interest. I just assumed all the VF'ers were Pearl-like disciplinarians, so the allegations didn't surprise me. Wean is definitely worth keeping an eye on, though. He was and perhaps still is the highest paid person at Vision Forum Ministries, apparently unusual for a CFO in a ministry.

It seemed more notable to me that through a VF ministry- to-VF business financial transaction Doug may have pocketed over $600,000 in ministry donations. I really hope someone with a background in finance can take a look at those returns and tell me whether that line of reasoning is correct or not.

[realist51]

Gosh, I would have cut and pasted the abuse allegations if I'd known they'd be of interest. I just assumed all the VF'ers were Pearl-like disciplinarians, so the allegations didn't surprise me. Wean is definitely worth keeping an eye on, though. He was and perhaps still is the highest paid person at Vision Forum Ministries, apparently unusual for a CFO in a ministry.

It seemed more notable to me that through a VF ministry- to-VF business financial transaction Doug may have pocketed over $600,000 in ministry donations. I really hope someone with a background in finance can take a look at those returns and tell me whether that line of reasoning is correct or not.

You know, as much as I hear people here saying it, I was still shocked to read the description of a grown man hitting a baby with a wooden spoon until he drew welts. Maybe I'm dense, but somehow seeing it in print and reading about three actual children being treated this way made it more real for me. Unfortunately, the court seems to have decided that this was not child abuse.

[Ameliorata]

How can anyone believe that beating a four month old baby is not child abuse? What is the argument here? It's accounts like this that make me so very happy I live in a country where hitting children is illegal, period. When it is legal to hit children the line between abuse and "spanking" seems very arbitrary.

[thoughtful]

Gee, I go to work for six hours, and miss a bunch!

Hane, I don't think I have ever tackled Bohemian Rhapsody (well, I've taught arrangements of it to several piano students, but have never tried a parody). You are a genius! :worship:

I am not surprised that there seems to be financial hanky-panky involved in the DougieDebacle, or that anybody involved in VF is perfectly capable of whacking their babies, with a calm manner and because "God says so."

Bit by bit, it will all come out . . .

[church_of_dog]

But...but..there are women here, with vaginas and independent opinions and everything! Doug (Phillips who is a tool) has probably convinced them them that interacting with women would result in inappropriate non-sexual relationships.

Oh, wait...

Doug Phillips, still a tool.

I know it's not the right form of speech, grammatically, but I really want the bolded to be a post count title!

[fatcat]

You know, as much as I hear people here saying it, I was still shocked to read the description of a grown man hitting a baby with a wooden spoon until he drew welts. Maybe I'm dense, but somehow seeing it in print and reading about three actual children being treated this way made it more real for me. Unfortunately, the court seems to have decided that this was not child abuse.

Reading that really upset me, way more than I thought it was going to. I honestly don't understand how so many people can still believe things like 'children are inherently sinful and need to be beaten constantly' and 'the man is the head of the household (and basically a dictator) because God said so' in the year 20 and fucking 13. And I bet if I met most of these people, I would think they are just sooo nice and sweet, because you know, they don't curse or behave rudely or anything like that. I also feel so bad for most of these women (and the children of course). It's not like most of them ever stood a chance, growing up hearing nothing but these beliefs constantly. When something bad happens, they are always the ones who suffer. Sure isn't the almighty 'heads of households' who take the fall. I bet Doug will be back smelling of roses and yammering on about biblical patriarchy and family values to a rapt audience by this same time next year.

Ahem... Maybe I need to take a short break from FJ.

[VVV]

FINALLY, the story makes the San Antonio news: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/ ... 961327.php

There is a longer and more detailed article available to E-N subscribers. From that article:

“I love this guy and know he's going to do what's right — for his family, for his business associates,†said David Birdy, a friend. “If there was one man I felt needed to catch a break from being bombarded by the media, it's Doug Phillips. We are all capable of dropping our guard, and even people of great character are capable of grievous sin. I don't know anything about the particulars, but I would have to agree he's done the right thing. ... I'm sure that was very difficult and very humbling for him.â€

There is also a quote from Jen Fishburne, formerly Jen Epstein.

[LurkerOverThePond]

Wonder if lovely Kevin Swanson has his firing squad in place and ready:

As the workshop churned on, Swanson’s gave voice to more visceral hatred ofThe Scarlet Letter. The moral of the novel, he insisted, was that witchcraft, homosexuality, incest, and feminism are better than Christianity. The Bible commands the death penalty for adultery, but Hawthorne and today’s average Christians loathe the death penalty.

Wait a minute. Did I just hear Swanson defend capital punishment for adultery?

Link: patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/07/vision-forums-history-of-america-mega-conference.html

[RosyDaisy]

Josh and Sarah don't deserve kids. As if the abuse itself isn't bad enough, Josh never kit the kids when he was angry or lost his temper. That is chilling and sinister. FUCKING MONSTERS...both of them.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yeah, it is way more scary when someone can beat the shit out of someone without looking angry. Sure, all hitting is bad, but at least when someone is hitting when they've lost their temper and are angry there is at least warning to it. The victim at least knows that theyre probably going to get a beating when they see their abuser is getting angry, but when the abuser is calm and smiling all of the time, theres no warning. They don't know when out of the blue they are going to get beaten up. Also the calmness while doing something violent sounds like some kind of emotionless psychopath. Also its controlled. Like if someone loses it and hurts someone, its like theyre out of control and didn't plan on doing it, it was just a spur of the moment thing (but its still bad to kill/hurt someone when angry) but when someone is calm and controlled about inflicting violence on someone, it seems like not only did they plan to do it and are aware that they are hurting someone, they are also enjoying it and oblivious to the person's cries of pain.

[Peas n carrots]

There is something in the 9 month gap between stepping down at BCA and VFM. Why such a big time gap? Just speculating, but did the sin happen more in association to BCA, and then 9 months later someone threatened to out Dougie to the world so he went on the offensive.

This is a troika doll of a mystery.

[watchdog]

Excuse me if this has already been mentioned. I'm only halfway through this thread.

From the "Homeschoolers Anonymous" blog comes this quote:

And do you know what pictures are disappearing off of the Vision Forum sites? Those of the young adult daughters of Phillips’ colleagues and friends. If it turns out that Phillips conducted his affair with one of those young woman (sic), what does that say of the reliability of the system he spent his life building, the system he convinced so many Christian homeschooling parents was the godly solution to a dangerous world?

Has anyone noticed this happening? Quick, someone capture screen shots!

[RosyDaisy]

It is my personal religious belief that all children are born without sin and a rebellious spirit and do not need to be baptized as infants. Even if they were, it can't be beaten out of them. If anything, it traumatizes them and can lead to lifelong emotional problems and turn them into abusers. As we see the 2nd generation of patriarchal, dominionist, quiverfulers raise their children, one of two things will happen. They will either become more abusive than their parents or turn away from the dangerous beliefs they were raised with (like Daniel and Suzanna Keller).

[MamaJunebug]

The photo of Wean - with his wife after the birth of their first child - reminded me of something BDJB told me ages ago, but it's always been beneficial: "When you see a person who doesn't look right in the eyes, be very careful." It'd be interesting to see if CFO Wean still has that unsettling look. My bet would be yes, but who knows.

All that said, I awoke mid-night, thinking about the Phillips timeline.

February 2013: resigns as elder (pastor) of BCA, very quietly

April 2013: his adored father, Howard, who has been one of 6 board members of Vision Forum Inc., dies after a period of illness

Late October 2013: resigns as honcho of VFM

Later October 2013: notes that he is still president of VFI

Early November 2013: BCA website removes Phillips' name as elder - 9 months after his resignation/removal

And meanwhile, VF Ministries sells VF Incorporated a property which VF Inc has already been selling on VFM's behalf and VFM nets $600,000+

The resignation statement admits an affair (to be brief) with "a woman."

All this, swirling around a man who's boldly manipulative, cunning and shrewd - and successful at it.

There's no doubt in my mind:

There is no woman, nor man.

There was no adultery - but there's been financial impropriety.

For all the hand-wringing and sinking-ship-jumping from Phillips' friends, and for all the told-you-so's that have come from his critics, the facts are that he and his cadre have been working at something to save their own skins and business.

Business at VFInc. may have been down, but contributions to VFM were robust, at $2.300,000 and change.

The bloggers should not be speculating on who the woman was, or on how she and "her household" are getting along. They need to be digging into whatever's out there in terms of finances.

And I know that's what some - including some media - are doing.

So....nothing new here, but just what seemed so very evident to me, after having seen Mr. Wean and read about him. Somehow it all makes perfect sense, now; only the specifics of the financial sins (because I'm guessing there are some) need to be revealed.

Folks' memories are short, especially when it comes to the activities of people they admire.

[hoipolloi]

Good analysis, Mama JB.

Unfortunately, the TX business/nonprofit registration info is behind a paywall, but Manta (http://www.manta.com/c/mmcz5jb/vision-forum-inc) indicates that VF Inc is estimated to bring in annual revenues of $5-10 million. Doug Phllips Is A Tool owns it, Josh Wean is CFO, Tim Horn is a manager, and Perry Coghlan is a Director.

Does anyone know how current Manta's "snapshot" information is likely to be?