Doug Phillips (is a tool) resigning!

[lizzielouwho]

If the other woman was a SAHD and young when this started then I don't want her to be outed. I feel like the way they are raising these girls leaves them open to be preyed upon by all kinds of people. Their maturity is stunted by parents and a church that want them to act child like. I'm not sure a SAHD would even understand that a married man was flirting with her or engaging in an "emotional" relationship. And if that man happened to be the revered leader of her church she would likely follow along with it blindly like a star struck teen befriended by her favorite pop singer.

[apple1]

If the other woman was a SAHD and young when this started then I don't want her to be outed. I feel like the way they are raising these girls leaves them open to be preyed upon by all kinds of people. Their maturity is stunted by parents and a church that want them to act child like. I'm not sure a SAHD would even understand that a married man was flirting with her or engaging in an "emotional" relationship. And if that man happened to be the revered leader of her church she would likely follow along with it blindly like a star struck teen befriended by her favorite pop singer.

If she was a minor, it may have also been illegal (depending on that state's definition of age of consent). Never mind the above-mentioned infantilizing of daughters, leaving them emotionally younger than their chronological age.

Then there is the issue of power imbalance, and of a person in a definite place of authority, potentially preventing actual consent.

These issues remind me of the Jack Schaap saga. (He is now incarcerated, BTW).

And the actual point that we know nothing about who this is (or even if she actually exists).

[Clementine]

If she was a minor, it may have also been illegal (depending on that state's definition of age of consent). Never mind the above-mentioned infantilizing of daughters, leaving them emotionally younger than their chronological age.

Then there is the issue of power imbalance, and of a person in a definite place of authority, potentially preventing actual consent.

These issues remind me of the Jack Schaap saga. (He is now incarcerated, BTW).

And the actual point that we know nothing about who this is (or even if she actually exists).

If the woman (if she exists) is a church member, wouldn't it be seen as some kind of spiritual abuse if the church leader gets involved with her romantically?

I blame Doug and only Doug. He has built his brand and reputation on spewing things like the man is the leader who knows best and women are weak, must be protected, serve, obey and submit.

Well, I guess that Doug lead and she submitted. Glorious example of why his teachings are all wrong.

My late grandmother used to say "Where lust enters, common sense leaves". Amen to that grandma!

[HereticHick]

Dougie's resignation just made the Wonkette blog

[BoomerLynn]

Wow! I go on an unintentional hiatus (insanely busy with life stuff) and come back to this! I really have nothing to add since everyone else has pretty much covered it except:

Doug Phillips is a Tool.

Vision Forum is a cult.

Lori Alexander is a Monster.

That Sarai lady is fucking scary.

[BlondeAgent007]

Did the woman even know who Doug was? She could have been outside of VF circles. She may not have known Doug had a family at all. I would have no clue who he was if I didn't read FJ. Nobody I know even knows what Vision Forum is.

Doug knows he has a family. He has relationships with the people he hurt. The other person in an affair doesn't have those ties. Whether she knows he has a family or not, the cheater in my book is definitely the bigger bad guy.

[nokidsmom]

Yes, one should not commit infidelity or participate in infidelity with others. However, if one does they shouldn't be damaged goods with a Scarlet A or subjected to even more patriarchal bullshit abuse. But I bet she is. I can condemn her for her actions if she took them willingly and still feel bad for the unreasonable consequences.

Especially since Doug Philips is a philandering tool still gets to nurture his wife and children.

I think infidelity is a terrible thing that causes deep emotional rifts in families. However, it is something that also happens quite easily and often without deliberation. And it isn't my sin to forgive, those they wronged are only their spouses and their children. The sin I judge Doug for is the sin I have been judging him for since I heard of him which is hate.

Re: the bolded, this is where I honestly hope that she is actually outside of VF. Because if she is, then she isn't being subjected to damaged goods / scarlet letter stuff from a father or husband or church. And I do think it's very possible that she is outside the group cult.

[nokidsmom]

Did the woman even know who Doug was? She could have been outside of VF circles. She may not have known Doug had a family at all. I would have no clue who he was if I didn't read FJ. Nobody I know even knows what Vision Forum is.

Doug knows he has a family. He has relationships with the people he hurt. The other person in an affair doesn't have those ties. Whether she knows he has a family or not, the cheater in my book is definitely the bigger bad guy.

Same here. I never heard of Dougie until I joined FJ, though surprisingly, when I mentioned this whole thing going on with Dougie to Mr. No, he did actually hear of him, the name rang a bell. Rather interesting.

But really, I think it very possible that the person involved was not in VF. He's going to meet people outside the organization all the time, between traveling, dealing with conferences, vendors, etc. He's not in a vaccuum totally and having a relationship outside would more easily escape detection, especially in the long term, vs. a sheltered SAHD or protected VF wife. That's why I think that there's been, so far, no name publicized or found out, and some question it even happened. She may be on the outside and not known at all in VF circles. If this were someone within, chances are someone would make it their business to out the name. These types of organizations talk the talk about being forgiving and all but they usually don't walk the walk. When these types of scandals occur, it's like they became a pack of hyenas, especially the ones who stand to gain.

[RosyDaisy]

I had a weird dream last night that Doug the Tool handed Michelle Duggar a baby! This is how you know you've been reading FJ too much! :lol: Oh, I almost forgot Doug Phillips is a tool!

[RosyDaisy]

Did the woman even know who Doug was? She could have been outside of VF circles. She may not have known Doug had a family at all. I would have no clue who he was if I didn't read FJ. Nobody I know even knows what Vision Forum is.

Doug knows he has a family. He has relationships with the people he hurt. The other person in an affair doesn't have those ties. Whether she knows he has a family or not, the cheater in my book is definitely the bigger bad guy.

This is certainly a possibility. Something similar happened to a good friend of mine.

[Talitha Cumi]

I'm still reading through the jensgems comments, and saw some from Ken. Is that Lori's Ken? From what he's saying, it sounds like it. Our old friend SSM also weighs in. :roll:

ETA selections from Ken's comment:

You entered Phillips’ life by choice in choosing his church. He tries to screen to keep troublemakers out of his church, and yet he and his congregation willingly took you in and tried to minister to you.

You should realize by now that your needs at that time were extremely difficult with no easy answer, yet you pressed and kept pressing for answers from Phillips who by now you should know could not give them to you. Not because answers do not exist, but because either you, or Mark, or both, were unwilling to change to do the things you already knew you needed to do to solve your marriage issues.

[...]

You have been proven right, that Phillips is not a perfect man… that he sins… and maybe he sinned against you, although from everything I have read I have not seen anything that would suggest that. Just take down your blog and acknowledge that the biggest mistake Phillips made was getting involved in martial issues with two hard headed people. Although you must admit he was quite reluctant to get involved in any way at all, but you kept pressing and wishing he made himself even more available to you and your extraordinary needs.

Yeah, thanks for the advice, ken. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[LucySnowe]

But really, I think it very possible that the person involved was not in VF. He's going to meet people outside the organization all the time, between traveling, dealing with conferences, vendors, etc. He's not in a vaccuum totally and having a relationship outside would more easily escape detection, especially in the long term, vs. a sheltered SAHD or protected VF wife. That's why I think that there's been, so far, no name publicized or found out, and some question it even happened. She may be on the outside and not known at all in VF circles.

Yeah, I agree. Ashleigh Baker's father left his family, job, religious position (not as grandiose as Doug's I don't think; I can't remember his name or the details - anyone?) for a woman he met on the internet. And it sounded as though it was *because* she had no connection to any of the rest of his life that he found her attractive and went off with her.

Of course, Doug doesn't seem to be leaving the fold.

[nelliebelle1197]

I'm still reading through the jensgems comments, and saw some from Ken. Is that Lori's Ken? From what he's saying, it sounds like it. Our old friend SSM also weighs in. :roll:

ETA selections from Ken's comment:

Yeah, thanks for the advice, ken. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

After reading her blog, I honestly don't have that much sympathy for her or her whack job ex. The Phillps are both tools, but Jen sounds pretty high maintenance.

[nokidsmom]

Yeah, I agree. Ashleigh Baker's father left his family, job, religious position (not as grandiose as Doug's I don't think; I can't remember his name or the details - anyone?) for a woman he met on the internet. And it sounded as though it was *because* she had no connection to any of the rest of his life that he found her attractive and went off with her.

Of course, Doug doesn't seem to be leaving the fold.

I suspect that one reason why he hasn't left the fold is because the person is on the outside. Because it's a person that can't be indentified within VF (or figured out), it's simply a woman that he had an "inappropriate" relationship that's vaguely out there, somewhere, maybe that's why he has managed to stay. If it was a person within and known, there would be stronger calls for him to leave or be ousted outright. I dunno, this situation with his affair strikes me as really vague and tough to pin down, not that it didn't happen but as far as the other party's identity. I would think the floodgates would have opened for other VF'ers to try and find out who she was, but so far there's been nothing.

[Hane]

As an earlier poster suggested, bop on over to Wonkette and enjoy what the posters have to say about this tragedy of Biblical proportions.

[TrueRebel1]

I noticed that on the Vision Forum (store) website, the blog is no longer "Doug's Blog", it's "Vision Forum Blog". And the poster name (as of the month of November) is simply "Vision Forum", not "Doug Phillips".

Methinks his resignation at Vision Forum Ministries is working it's way into the VF store.

[WonderingInWA]

Sounds like there won't be any "go-backs" or "overs" for him. They are purging him!

[Dark Matters]

I noticed that on the Vision Forum (store) website, the blog is no longer "Doug's Blog", it's "Vision Forum Blog". And the poster name (as of the month of November) is simply "Vision Forum", not "Doug Phillips".

Methinks his resignation at Vision Forum Ministries is working it's way into the VF store.

Only the name has been changed. I'm sure he's still behind the scenes pulling the strings.

[Marian the Librarian]

Am I alone in waiting for the other shoe to drop? I feel that this is just the tip of the iceberg and that there is so much more.

Why - "So Much More" - that's the name of the first book by the Botkinettes!! :o :lol:

Also (don't know if this has been mentioned here yet), Esq.'s name has been removed from the roster of elders on the Boerne Christian Assembly website.

[Hane]

Random thing I just saw on FB:

"Is it the obligation of any human being to protect the embarrassing secrets of some other individual of greater power and influence, simply because he tells her so?"

Strangely apropos of this situation.

[twin2]

I noticed that on the Vision Forum (store) website, the blog is no longer "Doug's Blog", it's "Vision Forum Blog". And the poster name (as of the month of November) is simply "Vision Forum", not "Doug Phillips".

Methinks his resignation at Vision Forum Ministries is working it's way into the VF store.

Slowly but surly, it is all coming tumbling down.

[Librul]

Did the woman even know who Doug was? She could have been outside of VF circles. She may not have known Doug had a family at all. I would have no clue who he was if I didn't read FJ. Nobody I know even knows what Vision Forum is.

Doug knows he has a family. He has relationships with the people he hurt. The other person in an affair doesn't have those ties. Whether she knows he has a family or not, the cheater in my book is definitely the bigger bad guy.

I have no sympathy for cheaters...man or woman. And we have no idea who Ms X may have betrayed or hurt along the way in her own circle. She certainly partnered with Dougie to hurt his children. In a longstanding connection, as Dougie says this was...hard to believe the other didn't know he had a family. It wasn't a one night stand, evidently.

[sarahjames3]

As an earlier poster suggested, bop on over to Wonkette and enjoy what the posters have to say about this tragedy of Biblical proportions.

I did...and I'm STILL laughing! "I think it was Doug, with a cigar, in the rectory"! lol

[thoughtful]

I did...and I'm STILL laughing! "I think it was Doug, with a cigar, in the rectory"! lol

I liked

"I did not have sex with that Beautiful Girlhood doll. It was merely inappropriate, romantic and affectionate."

[apple1]

Also (don't know if this has been mentioned here yet), Esq.'s name has been removed from the roster of elders on the Boerne Christian Assembly website.

Doug's name was still on there as one of the elders a couple of days ago. Somebody posted somewhere earlier that he had resigned that position with Boerne back in February (?), but I haven't seen evidence of that date. If that is true, it was really kept quiet for a long time. And for that to have occurred, there would have had to have been intent by the church's leaders to keep the whole thing under wraps.