Duggars, Duggars Everywhere - General Discussion Part 2

[halfheartedheroine]

They don't even begin to comprehend the governmental involvement, red tape and subjective decision making that will go on if abortion is deemed to be murder. We'll have doctors being required to turn records over to review boards so women can prove they are doing everything possible to ensure a safe birth and healthy fetus. Next up -- women will be jailed for smoking, drinking or doing drugs while pregnant. Oh, and who is going to raise the other children of women who are jailed for not following the 'birth rules'?

This is a PRIVATE MATTER between the man and the woman. Third parties should but out.

Not to mention if women may or may not be pregnant (the Schrodinger's fetus bill in Arizona, aka pregnancy starts counting at the first day of the most recent period, so everyone's preggo!) then they could jail up basically any drinking woman who regularly menstruates because they might be up the duff! Or even damaging the eggs that may later on be conceived...

[PennySycamore]

I just see a bunch of folks making the V for victory sign or the peace sign. In Texas, they could be doing the Hook 'Em, Horns sign which is also used by some other schools outside Texas. Its similar to the hang loose or shaka gesture of surf culture and the ILY sign of ASL or the sign for the letter Y. A very few people do associate that hand sign with the devil's horns, but not so much anymore. It was more prevalent back in the 80s when there was this hysteria about Satanism. Some of the Bushes -Bar, Jenna and Dubya- were caught doing it at Texas games to cheer on the beloved Longhorns and then it became OK to most people.

[fullmetalheart]

Sorry, but I feel compelled to ask this of people who declare themselves "pro-life" (which means you are "anti-choice", after all.) Staunchly or otherwise.

Do you really think you should have a personal say in whether my abortion of a non-viable (as in completely dependent on my body for it's continued existence) fetus meets your permissibility standards? Should I have to explain my reasons for terminating my pregnancy to you or to anyone else? Where is the line drawn between acceptable and non-acceptable reasons and who gets to draw that line?

I should have reworded my statement and said that I am personally pro life (and there are reasons that I would choose an abortion for myself, I think, even, I would hope that I would make the choose to choose life, but it is, after all, a choice. I would like to think I wouldn't choose to have an abortion, but who is to say what choice I would make if faced with a pregnancy that would kill me or if I'm still on the medications I'm on now, which would kill or severely harm a fetus? ), but do not feel that just because I am personally pro life that my beliefs are universally held nor that anyone should be held accountable to me nor anyone else. I'd also like to add that I'd never cast judgement on someone who is pro choice and I never had judged anyone I know who has had an abortion, just because it isn't a reason I would choose to have one. Not my body, not my choice.

[Mecca]

:evil: <---- Satan is not happy with Josh. He does not like his name being used falsely to further agendas.

Oh yes Josh, how can a citizen, a woman for gosh sakes, have the audacity to exercise their Constitutional right to protest?!? I guess that right is only reserved for people that agree with you and your ilk. :roll:

And who let this bozo moderate? He has got to be one of the worst public speakers I have ever heard. He blabbers on and rarely makes sense.

[FakePigtails]

I should have reworded my statement and said that I am personally pro life (and there are reasons that I would choose an abortion for myself, I think, even, I would hope that I would make the choose to choose life, but it is, after all, a choice. I would like to think I wouldn't choose to have an abortion, but who is to say what choice I would make if faced with a pregnancy that would kill me or if I'm still on the medications I'm on now, which would kill or severely harm a fetus? ), but do not feel that just because I am personally pro life that my beliefs are universally held nor that anyone should be held accountable to me nor anyone else. I'd also like to add that I'd never cast judgement on someone who is pro choice and I never had judged anyone I know who has had an abortion, just because it isn't a reason I would choose to have one. Not my body, not my choice.

If you believe in women having the right to make that decision themselves, you're pro-choice, no matter what you'd personally do. I know it's a term with a lot of baggage thanks to the religious crowd but well, you're pro-choice.

[Buzzard]

I would like to know how people like Josh and his friends propose we deal with the logistics of criminalizing all abortions.

For instances, what shall we do with women who go ahead and abort fetuses after a "heartbeat law" has been enacted? Abortion has been around forever after all, no Planned Parenthood required.

Should she face first degree murder charges? Or some lesser charge like second degree or manslaughter? If a woman is convicted of first degree murder for aborting a fetus at 8 weeks gestation, should she face the death penalty in states that allow executions for murderers? Or would that drastic a penalty be reserved for those who abort later, say at around the 24 week mark? If all heartbeats are equal under the law, what would be the legal basis for any such distinctions?

How will the state determine what's a "legitimate abortion" (i.e. miscarriage) vs. a criminal one? Should the government employee Uterine Inspectors to investigate the causes of lost pregnancies? Then again, how will the state even know whether a woman is pregnant in the first place? Should all women of child bearing age who cannot prove they've been sterilized be required to report on a monthly basis to a Pregnancy Check Minute Clinic so we can register and get all pregnancies on the government radar?

If women are to be jailed for murdering their fetuses, will men be allowed generous FMLA benefits to care for their now motherless offspring? Will orphanages be set up to care for the kids of single mothers or those who have deadbeat dads?

And what should doctors do in those sticky wicket situations (Cough...michelleduggar karensantorum....cough) where a mother might die unless a non-viable or questionably viable fetus is delivered prematurely? God's will be done, I reckon.

Anyone ever hear what their post-victory plans are?

Hail Satan! :twisted:

Well DUH, such an important system could only be monitored by a highly efficient and clearly awesome government program that will be devised by brilliant minds like smuggles and gothard. Such a program would be administered by the federal government, be offered uniformly though the states, and treat people equally.

Oh wait, they dont like the government being involved in medical decisions or anything that treats people uniformly... :? Guess they really need to go back to the drawing board.

While we're at it, though... lets also have this "death panel" work on the other OT laws, too. Death Penalty for adultery, stealing, disobeying your parents, not observing the sabbath (you know, like smuggles)...

[MrsYoungie]

If Josie hadn't survived the delivery (which was a CHOICE because of J'chelle's pre-eclampsia) would she and JB have considered themselves guilty of murder? Shouldn't Gawd's plan (mother dying of high blood pressure) been followed?

Josie should not be the pro-life poster child. She should be the pro-choice poster child.

[mrs]

Not to mention if women may or may not be pregnant (the Schrodinger's fetus bill in Arizona, aka pregnancy starts counting at the first day of the most recent period, so everyone's preggo!) then they could jail up basically any drinking woman who regularly menstruates because they might be up the duff! Or even damaging the eggs that may later on be conceived...

Mark Obnshain who may become the attorney general for VA(to close to call) introduced the "Miscarriage reporting" bill in 2009. The bill would make it mandatory for women who experienced a miscarriage to report it to authority's within 24 hours. (wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Obenshain)

I really hope he does not win.

[RosyDaisy]

Good point, Rescinded and Mended. Would Smugger choose Anna's life, or the life of his M baby?

The baby of course. He can always remarry and father more kids. Josh is that big of a patriarchal asshole tool.

[RosyDaisy]

Mark Obnshain who may become the attorney general for VA(to close to call) introduced the "Miscarriage reporting" bill in 2009. The bill would make it mandatory for women who experienced a miscarriage to report it to authority's within 24 hours. (wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Obenshain)

I really hope he does not win.

Me too. But if he does, then Anna had better pray that she never has another miscarriage. Hasn't she already had 2 miscarriages.....one after Mack and one after Mike?

[JellyHope]

I should have reworded my statement and said that I am personally pro life (and there are reasons that I would choose an abortion for myself, I think, even, I would hope that I would make the choose to choose life, but it is, after all, a choice. I would like to think I wouldn't choose to have an abortion, but who is to say what choice I would make if faced with a pregnancy that would kill me or if I'm still on the medications I'm on now, which would kill or severely harm a fetus? ), but do not feel that just because I am personally pro life that my beliefs are universally held nor that anyone should be held accountable to me nor anyone else. I'd also like to add that I'd never cast judgement on someone who is pro choice and I never had judged anyone I know who has had an abortion, just because it isn't a reason I would choose to have one. Not my body, not my choice.

Um, FullMetal? I hate to break it to you, but you're pro-choice. If you say that you wouldn't judge others who have abortions, if you say you don't want to control someone else's body & choices, then you ARE pro-choice! The way you described your views above is almost the textbook definition of pro-choice! Pro-choice does NOT mean pro-abortion, nor does it mean that you yourself want/would get an abortion. Just because you wouldn't choose abortion for yourself does NOT make you pro-life. The pro-life movement is all about controlling what everyone else does with their bodies. "Not my body not my choice"? Sweety, you're pro-choice. Say it proudly!

I'm in my early 30's, in a stable relationship, with 2 toddlers. I don't really want to get pregnant at this moment, but if I did, I definitely would not consider abortion for myself, in the circumstances I am in. That doesn't change the fact that I am PRO-CHOICE! My tea party inlaws call it "pro-abortion." NO ONE is pro-abortion. It would be great if we could prevent ALL unwanted pregnancies, (ahem, comprehensive sex education & access to birth control) and conditions that make those wanted pregnancies unviable or without any quality of life. But that's not reality. Abortions should be legal, safe, & rare.

[singsingsing]

NO ONE is pro-abortion. It would be great if we could prevent ALL unwanted pregnancies, (ahem, comprehensive sex education & access to birth control) and conditions that make those wanted pregnancies unviable or without any quality of life. But that's not reality. Abortions should be legal, safe, & rare.

There are plenty of people who are pro-abortion, and they do not believe that abortion should be rare. Many of them will even tell you that abortion is always acceptable, even after the point that the fetus would be viable outside the womb. Much like the radical pro-lifers who want abortion providers to face the death penalty, there are radical pro-choicers who are just as extreme. You will probably hear from some of them if the discussion continues in this thread.

[thekate]

There are plenty of people who are pro-abortion, and they do not believe that abortion should be rare. Many of them will even tell you that abortion is always acceptable, even after the point that the fetus would be viable outside the womb. Much like the radical pro-lifers who want abortion providers to face the death penalty, there are radical pro-choicers who are just as extreme. You will probably hear from some of them if the discussion continues in this thread.

Unless they're forcing people who want to keep a pregnancy to abort, I don't think it's a fair comparison or that you can call them "pro-abortion."

[formergothardite]

I've never seen a single pro-abortion person on Free Jinger. I must have missed them. I believe that abortion is always acceptable, even if I personally would not have an abortion in many situations, but that is hardly pro-abortion. It is pro-choice because I don't think that I should be able to tell a woman what she should be able to do with her body and that includes not making women have abortions. Women should get to choice. I don't know of anyone who wants to remove a woman's rights to remain pregnant and force her into an abortion. That would be pro-abortion. I think that women should not feel like they have to have an abortion just like they shouldn't feel like they have to continue an unwanted pregnancy.

[RosyDaisy]

Confession: I don't think I would ever have chosen an abortion (moot point since I've had a hysterectomy). I also struggle with the notion of late term abortion except in the case of the mother's health or fetal abnormality. However those cases are rare, and I can't let my personal feelings get in the way of the fact that every woman has a right to choose. It is also not my place to judge a woman who chooses to abort at any point during her pregnancy.

[Mela99]

Confession: I don't think I would ever have chosen an abortion (moot point since I've had a hysterectomy). I also struggle with the notion of late term abortion except in the case of the mother's health or fetal abnormality. However those cases are rare, and I can't let my personal feelings get in the way of the fact that every woman has a right to choose. It is also not my place to judge a woman who chooses to abort at any point during her pregnancy.

Get this woman a massage, a bottle of wine, and a box of gourmet chocolates.

QFT.

Thank you.

:clap:

[ljohnson2006]

Would J'Chelle and Boob sound less stupid if TLC schooled them on things before they spoke?

These people will compare abortion to the Holocaust, which is an insult to people who survived or died in that. But yet, when they have a still born baby, they put pics on the net, and do a VSE with a funeral for her. Hypocrite, much? Let's exploit our dead child, but this is way worse than the people who suffered during the Holocaust. I doubt they even know what that is.

[ljohnson2006]

Smugger is no better than his idiot parents. Posting pics at Jubilee's burial, and saying "Buried my lil' sis today, so sad". Why does Smugger always use the slang lil? Does he think he's Black?

[coexist]

I wasn't aware that we owned the rights to "lil"! "Bling bling", "bootilicious" maybe, but lil? (:

[RosyDaisy]

Fundies will always compare abortion to the Holocaust, a Democratic president to Hitler, and anybody than an ultra conservative, right wing Christians as Nazis. That will never change. It's way beyond offensive and ignorant.

[fullmetalheart]

Um, FullMetal? I hate to break it to you, but you're pro-choice. If you say that you wouldn't judge others who have abortions, if you say you don't want to control someone else's body & choices, then you ARE pro-choice! The way you described your views above is almost the textbook definition of pro-choice! Pro-choice does NOT mean pro-abortion, nor does it mean that you yourself want/would get an abortion. Just because you wouldn't choose abortion for yourself does NOT make you pro-life. The pro-life movement is all about controlling what everyone else does with their bodies. "Not my body not my choice"? Sweety, you're pro-choice. Say it proudly!

I'm in my early 30's, in a stable relationship, with 2 toddlers. I don't really want to get pregnant at this moment, but if I did, I definitely would not consider abortion for myself, in the circumstances I am in. That doesn't change the fact that I am PRO-CHOICE! My tea party inlaws call it "pro-abortion." NO ONE is pro-abortion. It would be great if we could prevent ALL unwanted pregnancies, (ahem, comprehensive sex education & access to birth control) and conditions that make those wanted pregnancies unviable or without any quality of life. But that's not reality. Abortions should be legal, safe, & rare.

It's just hard for me to say that I'm pro choice when I've been raised in a place where I've been eaten alive if I'd say that, you know? I attend a Christian college, and yeah, I'd be burned at the stake of I say that. You should see the controversy I caused by saying I supported gay marriage... my roommate and I got completely attacked. I do believe in legal, safe, and rare. And so, yeah. It's just hard to accept my viewpoints when it goes SO against the grain of how I was raised and the culture I live in (especially when I know that if anyone in real life saw it, yeah, I would be 100% eaten alive, and I've seen it happen for other things).

[Cleopatra7]

Would J'Chelle and Boob sound less stupid if TLC schooled them on things before they spoke?

These people will compare abortion to the Holocaust, which is an insult to people who survived or died in that. But yet, when they have a still born baby, they put pics on the net, and do a VSE with a funeral for her. Hypocrite, much? Let's exploit our dead child, but this is way worse than the people who suffered during the Holocaust. I doubt they even know what that is.

To me, the issue is that the Duggars have to make everything about themselves, whether its about their family or their politics. The fact that the only thing they could get out of a trip to the Holocaust Museum was a way to further their political agenda, indicates that they are unable to see other people and their stories/problems as being important. They are too self-absorbed to learn anything from anyone.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

The duggars showed up in my Facebook feed just now. "Stop the war on women's rights" and "think progress" shared this

thinkprogress.org/health/2013/11/06/2902921/duggars-tennessee-abortion-restrictions/

[Kimberly86]

I like how women having abortions are apperently having a "lifetime of regret" but meanwhile, Jim Bob and Michelle are still purposely trying to have as many kids as they can, even as the kids get sicklier and siclklier, and suffer (Josie and Jubliee) and you know it will even get worse, where is the "lifetime of regret" for putting the lives of Michelle, and the new babies in danger each time they bone for a new precious joy?

[treemom]

I'd love to get Joshie over a coffee and talk abortion with him. I would smite him,