Who's Responsible for the Possible Gov't Shutdown?

[realist51]

First we must remember that healthcare isn't free anywhere. Someone is paying for it. It simply isn't at the point of service under some systems.

I chafe when people call it "free" healthcare. We need to have a different term for it. Installment plan healthcare? Prepaid health care? Publicly supported healthcare? Universally available healthcare? I don't know. Any ideas? Also, as the poster from Kentucky pointed out, for many people, it is certainly not free. In fact, it can be quite expensive. (I still support the ACA. I think, though, that many of us have been sheltered from the reality of how expensive health insurance is because of company-backed policies. Those policies were paid for through lower wages and tax incentives. Still not FREE.) OUr NEXT national conversation will have to be about why our health care costs so much more than everyone else's.

[Peas n carrots]

My in-laws are over from the UK and were telling us about some of the "lovely" American's they've met. Just an introduction as "we're from the UK" caused one particular person to launch into a tale of how horrible it must be to be from the UK because of the NHS.

My M-i-L, though, recently had a cancer scare, that the NHS dealt with incredibly efficiently and effectively. M-i-L made sure to tell the busy-body americans just how well she was treated by the NHS.

The NHS saves my DH's life. He was born with a severe birth defect, and he spent the first 4 months of his life in the hospital, and the next 15 years going through 1-2 surgeries a year. His parents were young and working class - that would have caused immense financial strain on all but the wealthiest families in the US.

DH gets to hear how bad the NHS is from random Americans, and they get pissed when he tells them how he has benefited from the NHS lol.

[jaynie]

I chafe when people call it "free" healthcare. We need to have a different term for it. Installment plan healthcare? Prepaid health care? Publicly supported healthcare? Universally available healthcare? I don't know. Any ideas? Also, as the poster from Kentucky pointed out, for many people, it is certainly not free. In fact, it can be quite expensive. (I still support the ACA. I think, though, that many of us have been sheltered from the reality of how expensive health insurance is because of company-backed policies. Those policies were paid for through lower wages and tax incentives. Still not FREE.) OUr NEXT national conversation will have to be about why our health care costs so much more than everyone else's.

I thought universal healthcare was the generally accepted term? I do tend to say "free" though, in the same sense a previous poster mentioned (schools are "free", roads are "free" etc). Thinking about it, I guess I mean free in the sense of "freely available" rather than "no cost". I wouldn't necessarily have used that term for aca though because the set up is a bit different from other "free" services.

[OkToBeTakei]

First we must remember that healthcare isn't free anywhere. Someone is paying for it. It simply isn't at the point of service under some systems.

It is here. since the 50's. Every point of contact is free. Even to the point of free prescriptions in my country. There is nothing I have paid for in 44 years except exempt cosmetic dentistry Why should anybody pay for that?

Yes I pay tax for it. My tax is broken down I pay a really small percent as I only work 22hrs per week. It is a cumulative thing.

I do not ever resent my tax for the NHS or my NI payments because even if I do not have a private pension I will get one.

IF I happen to get cancer...then I know my family will not suffer. Beyond the emotional..financial will never be a worry or a guilt trip.

Tell me why any country does not want to feel like me?

Please tell me why that is a bad thing?

[Coconut Flan]

I didn't say it's a bad thing. I think it's a misnomer to keep repeating that it's free when it obviously is not. That payment is separated from receiving the service in the same way that paying for schools and roads are separated is true. That you pay a very small amount also means that someone else pays a very large amount to make up the difference. Simply facts that repeatedly calling it free does not acknowledge.

[OkToBeTakei]

I didn't say it's a bad thing. I think it's a misnomer to keep repeating that it's free when it obviously is not. That payment is separated from receiving the service in the same way that paying for schools and roads are separated is true. That you pay a very small amount also means that someone else pays a very large amount to make up the difference. Simply facts that repeatedly calling it free does not acknowledge.

Tax is a set percentage based on earning.You obviously have no idea the way it works here. Tax is all those things.It is welfare,it is schools it is roads it is life.

OH WAIT you mean those that do not pay tax?

I want them to have a good end of life cancer care without pain and with dignity. I don't want them to have money to ensure that.

I suppose unless you live here you will not get that. Or appreciate it. It has flaws for sure. I just detest those who do not get it.

[FakePigtails]

I didn't say it's a bad thing. I think it's a misnomer to keep repeating that it's free when it obviously is not. That payment is separated from receiving the service in the same way that paying for schools and roads are separated is true. That you pay a very small amount also means that someone else pays a very large amount to make up the difference. Simply facts that repeatedly calling it free does not acknowledge.

I really doubt most supporters of universal health care for Americans are under the impression that there's no cost, and frankly it's tiring to constantly have people assume that's our thinking. It comes across as a giant red herring.

As for point of service costs, yes, I would like it free for those who couldn't obtain health care otherwise even if it costs me some of my tax money. I consider it an investment in my fellow citizens. Healthy people are more productive and stable and are able to contribute more to the country via taxes (by being able to work and spend money, adding to the economy).

[Coconut Flan]

I absolutely get that the tax is a percentage of income. To assume that I don't is rather off. I object to the throwing around of free by so many.

I make no assumptions about the thinking of people who support universal healthcare except for my own. My comment is about the terms used in describing certain situations and what they imply and the people who do not acknowledge all that is involved in the system.

[halfheartedheroine]

Well I tend to think of it as "free" in the same way that sending my kids to school, calling the police when my car is stolen or calling the fire department to put out a fire are all "free". And health care should be the same sort of system IMHO.

Exactly. Part of my tax money goes to public schools, and although I'm not using them at the moment, I reap the reward of living in a better-educated society than if the public schools weren't available at all. I'm willing for part of my taxes to go contribute to a better health-maintained society as well. Strictly dollar-wise, it's more effective to get preventative care than let things build up into a more expensive case because someone can't afford the doctor's or prescription copay to get it straightened out quickly (and if things get bad enough that emergency services are used and can't be paid for, other people end up paying for it anyway when the hospital increases their price point. Might as well pay it up front and try to prevent what emergency cases we can).

[Mama Mia]

I absolutely get that the tax is a percentage of income. To assume that I don't is rather off. I object to the throwing around of free by so many.

I make no assumptions about the thinking of people who support universal healthcare except for my own. My comment is about the terms used in describing certain situations and what they imply and the people who do not acknowledge all that is involved in the system.

Well of course there would be a great deal of cost involved, and the build up of a system. But if all these other countries managed to do it before computers were everywhere, I'm sure it can be done.

It seems, to me, like a much more necessary service to have as a universal given than anything else that is paid for through our taxes now. People benefit from the educational system, but for a relatively short time period, most people don't need to call the police on a regular basis, and the vast majority of people will never personally need the services of the fire department - but most people would benefit from some sort of health care throughout their entire lifespan. Yet it's the one thing people object to the most strenuously, I don't get it at all.

[Coconut Flan]

Yet it's the one thing people object to the most strenuously, I don't get it at all.

I don't get it either. The people I know who are the loudest in opposition to any healthcare change or reform are the among the people who need or would benefit from it the most. The two loudest have pre-existing conditions and both are heart attacks in the making. They have both had hospitalizations in the last five years. You'd think the security of healthcare would be a reassuring thought to them.

[pattygbucks]

People benefit from the educational system, but for a relatively short time period, most people don't need to call the police on a regular basis, and the vast majority of people will never personally need the services of the fire department - but most people would benefit from some sort of health care throughout their entire lifespan.

Mrs S2004: I just posted this on my FB, I'd give credit if I knew who your were...very well stated!

[RosyDaisy]

I suppose it is far too nuanced for you to understand this, but 1) Reeve had the good fortune of being both famous and wealthy to create work for himself or for people to bring work to him (like the quadraplegic role)-- he did not have to find employment to suit his special needs; and 2) Helen Keller had wealthy sponsors paying for her education and famous people like Mark Twain networking for her and setting her up in life. In short, HELEN KELLER HAD HANDOUTS! Also, Reeve was an outspoken Democrat, and Keller was a flaming liberal. She was like a founding member of the ACLU and a socialist. It is sort of adorable how you hold them up as the embodiment of Republicanism, though. lol.

Also, Helen Keller did not come from a poor family. I don't live far from Tuscumbia, Alabama. I have visited Ivy Green (her childhood home) many times. There's a local hospital named for her, and a Helen Keller Festival held every year. She is beloved here in Alabama. HGR, you truly are ignorant and arrogant.

[Mama Mia]

Mrs S2004: I just posted this on my FB, I'd give credit if I knew who your were...very well stated!

Thank you !

[happy atheist]

It is with a heavy heart that I announce homegirlruby's entry into the Prayer Closet for attempting to register socks. :shock:

I'm certain you will all join me in celebration of her upcoming spiritual rebirth. :whistle:

[Sola]

It is with a heavy heart that I announce homegirlruby's entry into the Prayer Closet for attempting to register socks. :shock:

I'm certain you will all join me in celebration of her upcoming spiritual rebirth. :whistle:

She did? She's even more stupid than I thought! She breaks the rule which is repeatedly emphasised here, so she can't say she didn't know - stupid. What did she want socks for? To back up her opinion - stupid.

[formergothardite]

It is with a heavy heart that I announce homegirlruby's entry into the Prayer Closet for attempting to register socks. :shock:

I'm certain you will all join me in celebration of her upcoming spiritual rebirth. :whistle:

Perhaps she should read some Character Sketches while she is in there? :lol: I can't remember which animal demonstrates compassion and empathy, but I'm sure there is one.

http://www.amazon.com/Character-Sketche ... 0916888010

[OkToBeTakei]

It is with a heavy heart that I announce homegirlruby's entry into the Prayer Closet for attempting to register socks. :shock:

I'm certain you will all join me in celebration of her upcoming spiritual rebirth. :whistle:

Yes......thick as two short planks :lol:

[Sola]

Yes......thick as two short planks :lol:

Or, as thick as pig shit. As we say in Yorkshire ;)

[OkToBeTakei]

Or, as thick as pig shit. As we say in Yorkshire ;)

:lol:

[littlemommy]

I have to say that I rather enjoyed the dramaz on this thread. Greg and DeDe were my FJ crack, and they fizzled on me. :( HomeGirlRuby had recently brought the entertainment, and her attempted sockwomanship was the grand finale!

/popcorn finished

[nokidsmom]

She did? She's even more stupid than I thought! She breaks the rule which is repeatedly emphasised here, so she can't say she didn't know - stupid. What did she want socks for? To back up her opinion - stupid.

Wow, I am rather astounded too for the same reasons. Because that is a rule that is mentioned a lot, and her profile indicates she/he's been here long enough to know that.

Would have been interesting what her/his socks would have said, but I think we have heard enough from just her/him (still not buying she is really a she)

[realist51]

Could someone explain what you mean by registering "socks"?

[realist51]

Could someone explain what you mean by registering "socks"?

Never mind. I found it in the rules.

[formergothardite]

I suspected she was a former member/troll who had come back under a sock to stir up trouble. But since she didn't know how to create a sock without being found out that obviously wasn't true.